S05.E03: In The Valley of The Shadows

[WendyCR72]

To air on October 9, 2019:

Dr. Choi and Dr. Marcel don't see eye to eye over the treatment of a patient's chronic pain. Rumors circulate about Maggie.; Dr. Manning works to help a young boy, but she is challenged by his parents, who believe in only using holistic remedies.

[The Ringo Kidd]

It’s not surprising that Choi can’t treat someone with chronic pain since he is oblivious to April who is a chronic pain in the ass.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Dr. Manning works to help a young boy, but she is challenged by his parents,

For the 3829th time.

[AnnA]

Please tell me this is the episode Will asks Jay to do a background check on Natalie's boyfriend, Phillip (is that his name?).

Edited October 8, 2019 by AnnA

[Court]

5 hours ago, AnnA said:

Please tell me this is the episode Will asks Jay to do a background check on Natalie's boyfriend, Phillip (is that his name?).

And the one where the new surgery dr tells her the ring wasn't on her finger when she was brought in. 

[AnnA]

15 hours ago, Court said:

And the one where the new surgery dr tells her the ring wasn't on her finger when she was brought in. 

... Which triggers the return of her memory

And then maybe she remembers she wanted to tell Will that she decided to give up medicine, get breast implants and go work at Hooters.  LOL

[cathmed]

This episode (which I haven't even seen yet) sounds like "same song, second verse": 

"It’s not surprising that Choi can’t treat someone with chronic pain since he is oblivious to April who is a chronic pain in the ass. 😲 Dr. Manning works to help a young boy, but she is challenged by his parents - For the 3829th time.😂   Please tell me this is the episode Will asks Jay to do a background check on Natalie's boyfriend, Phillip.    And the one where the new surgery dr tells her the ring wasn't on her finger when she was brought in.  ... Which triggers the return of her memory,  And then maybe she remembers she wanted to tell Will that she decided to give up medicine, get breast implants and go work at Hooters".    You posters have it down to a science 😉

Dr. Marcel is OK but they've truly just made him a Connor clone, imo.   They still could have killed off Ava but kept Connor--who would have had this same storyline they've now given to Dr. Marcel.  MAKES.NO.SENSE   I'm already disappointed with these episodes.

I'll return later to comment on the episode.

[rhys]

This topic explanation is all wrong for what I just watched. What is going on?

[The Ringo Kidd]

The guy who wrote it had his head cut off and frozen.

Sorry about that.

[preeya]

Natalie, Maggie, Charles' wife, Will,  April,  the whole fucking show:

ABSOLUTELY UNBEARABLE

[rhys]

1 hour ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

The guy who wrote it had his head cut off and frozen.

Sorry about that.

Bravo! 

[watcher1006]

I think Maggie has always been one of the more likable characters on this show but she has been selfish and unprofessional in the last two episodes. It's not just about her, what about the patients? Not a great move to ditch the operating room in the middle of a surgery.

It's the fifth season of the show, isn't the Natalie-Will thing kind of tired by now? 

[spunky]

April needs to have several seats in a corner somewhere. She was so disrespectful to Dr. Marcel, mainly because her man doesn’t like him. Will found his backbone tonight with Natalie, I hope the writers keep him that way. If a minor’s parents say they don’t want you treating their child, the last thing any doctor should do is insert themselves where they aren’t wanted. I usually like Maggie, but she was a bit too much tonight. I understand she’s supposed to be this strong independent woman who takes no prisoners, but she was just flat out mean to that poor girl all. because she’s frustrated with her own health. 

[Amethyst]

Maggie looks ready to collapse most of the time and she’s barely speaking above a whisper.  Forget the nurse trainee, her own coworkers don’t notice any of this?  

Phillip casually toting his kids around that hospital is disturbing as hell.

[rhys]

How does Phil earn a living? He's never at work. We see him toting kids as above, but he needs an income stream.

[LittleIggy]

16 minutes ago, rhys said:

How does Phil earn a living? He's never at work. We see him toting kids as above, but he needs an income stream.

Does he work out of his home? 
Always glad to see Dr. Abrams. Don’t tell him I think Dr. Marcel is hot. 😏

Maggie was such a bitch to that nurse.

[sheetmoss]

10 hours ago, cathmed said:

Dr. Marcel is OK but they've truly just made him a Connor clone, imo.   They still could have killed off Ava but kept Connor--who would have had this same storyline they've now given to Dr. Marcel.  MAKES.NO.SENSE   I'm already disappointed with these episodes.

My understanding is Colin Donnell wanted to leave the show

[izabella]

1 hour ago, spunky said:

Will found his backbone tonight with Natalie, I hope the writers keep him that way. If a minor’s parents say they don’t want you treating their child, the last thing any doctor should do is insert themselves where they aren’t wanted.

Seriously, she refuses to consider anything but what she wants and what she thinks, ever.  Even if she thought she figured out what was going on with the kid, she should have gone to Will and told him instead of barging in there to do it herself.  Will should report her and she should get suspended.

Natalie's bf is creepy.  Why is he always hanging around the hospital with the kids for no reason?

[WendyCR72]

15 minutes ago, sheetmoss said:

My understanding is Colin Donnell wanted to leave the show

I don't know. The TV Line article announcing his departure certainly sounded like it wasn't his choice...

[The Ringo Kidd]

Is it me or Dr Charles wife look like Oprah?

Does that make him Steadman?

[statsgirl]

It was the producers' decision to get rid of Connor, not the actor's. Colin Donnell tweeted that he was sad to be leaving.

I don't know if they thought he was irrevocably tainted by the relationship with Ava or if he was taking the leading man spot from Will. I think it was a bad decision because both Will and Choi have been gutted by their relationships with Natalie and April respectively.

2 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

It's the fifth season of the show, isn't the Natalie-Will thing kind of tired by now? 

Way past time to either commit to it or end it.

[nokat]

Way to go show, to make me hate Natalie even more. She is such a bitch.
 

[Ohwell]

I was confused at the end about the woman who cut the baby out of the mother's womb.  So was Dr. Marcel on to her from the start, and that's why he gave her the drug to put her to sleep, so that authorities could be contacted?  Of course April had to go off and do her own thing.  I have a growing fear that there will be a Choi/April/Dr. Marcel triangle.

I don't understand why the hospital administrator won't just put Maggie on leave.  She can do that, can't she?

[preeya]

31 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I don't understand why the hospital administrator won't just put Maggie on leave.  She can do that, can't she?

She can, but she's acting more as a friend (?) rather than in the capacity of a boss. 

Exposure to a law suit because of this situation (almost passing out in the middle of a surgical procedure) is probable.

BUT, this is Chicago Med, where anything goes and everything is overlooked.

[Ohwell]

5 minutes ago, preeya said:

She can, but she's acting more as a friend (?) rather than in the capacity of a boss. 

Exposure to a law suit because of this situation (almost passing out in the middle of a surgical procedure) is probable.

BUT, this is Chicago Med, where anything goes and everything is overlooked.

Yes, and the same goes for Natalie and her memory issues.  At least Will is taking a stand but we'll see how that works out.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

I was confused at the end about the woman who cut the baby out of the mother's womb.  So was Dr. Marcel on to her from the start, and that's why he gave her the drug to put her to sleep, so that authorities could be contacted?  Of course April had to go off and do her own thing.  I have a growing fear that there will be a Choi/April/Dr. Marcel triangle.

He gave her Ativan (?) to calm her down, but gave her enough to knock her out.  In the meantime, he sent her blood for tests, including a hormone test that would show if she had been pregnant.

I don't know if he was suspicious from the start, or if April convinced him to be suspicious, but he wasn't just ignoring the possibility that April was right.  They were too vague and too quick with the ending of that story for it be clear.

[sadie]

Is it just me or does this ER get darker every episode. I don’t mean the story lines, I mean the physical space. I’ve been in better lit bars than this. How does anyone see anything? 

Dr Charles’ wife was on my last nerve. Enough about the freaking cake! I wanted to slap her. Are we supposed to feel bad for her because she’s sick or do the writers want us to hate her so when she dies we won’t feel sad.

Natalies boyfriend continues to be a super creep, how in the world does she not see it? This explains why she is such a bad doctor. Glad to see Ezra ( for you Pretty Little Liars fans) continues to get type cast, he does it well! 

[preeya]

18 minutes ago, izabella said:

I don't know if he was suspicious from the start, or if April convinced him to be suspicious, but he wasn't just ignoring the possibility that April was right.  They were too vague and too quick with the ending of that story for it be clear.

I got the impression that he (Dr. Marcel) took April's idea and ran with it without telling April. The scene at the end was April's look of dismay that Marcel betrayed her, even though he's a doctor, she's not and thinks she's above everyone.  Didn't she say at one point that Marcel should "stay out of her way?"

[dogdays2]

Three thoughts.

I hate what the writers are doing with Maggie.  The one constant has been her professionalism.  Now, that is thrown out the window as she puts her own needs ahead of her patients, disrespects her friends and colleagues, and acts totally unprofessional. 

The thing with Dr. Charles' wife was just strange.  I think the writers were looking for some juxtaposition in Dr. C's mind between the brain guy and the wife but it was far too convoluted for me to figure out.  I also realize that cancer patients want control in a situation that is often out of control, but this was a wacky way to depict that.

Third . . . with Natalie, I can't quite decide if the actress is terrible, the writing is terrible, or both.  But her character totally grates on me. 

[LittleIggy]

I’m beyond sick of April and her “Puritan at the office Christmas party” look.

[Amethyst]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

They were too vague and too quick with the ending of that story for it be clear.

IA, way too vague.  I wasn’t sure if what he did was meant to be impressive because he put his own job in jeopardy, or shady because he took the credit for April’s idea.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, dogdays2 said:

I hate what the writers are doing with Maggie.  The one constant has been her professionalism.  Now, that is thrown out the window as she puts her own needs ahead of her patients, disrespects her friends and colleagues, and acts totally unprofessional. 

They are saddling Maggie with one of my least favorite tropes in medical/police/fire shows - the one where a person has a terrible injury or illness and absolutely refuses to take time off work to take care of themselves.  No, we have to see them throwing up secretly and falling over and cringing in pain while dragging themselves around because 1) they are so fucking "dedicated" to their jobs, 2) refuse to admit they are human, and 3) no one else could possibly do as good a job as they.  Hate.

[The Ringo Kidd]

3 hours ago, preeya said:

I got the impression that he (Dr. Marcel) took April's idea and ran with it without telling April. The scene at the end was April's look of dismay that Marcel betrayed her, even though he's a doctor, she's not and thinks she's above everyone.  Didn't she say at one point that Marcel should "stay out of her way?"

How is she allowed to remain a nurse let alone get a promotion? Disregarding a Doctors direct orders should be grounds for dismissal not promotion. Every Doctor I ever met would never stand for that matter n a million years.

[spunky]

14 hours ago, izabella said:

Seriously, she refuses to consider anything but what she wants and what she thinks, ever.  Even if she thought she figured out what was going on with the kid, she should have gone to Will and told him instead of barging in there to do it herself.  Will should report her and she should get suspended.

Natalie's bf is creepy.  Why is he always hanging around the hospital with the kids for no reason?

Will really should have reported her. She had the audacity to become petulant because her supervisor said he's going to supervise her cases from now on. This is an example of why supervisors should not date subordinates. Her fiance is nothing more than a creepy stalker, who more than likely killed his wife.

[cinsays]

On 10/8/2019 at 6:00 PM, AnnA said:

... Which triggers the return of her memory

And then maybe she remembers she wanted to tell Will that she decided to give up medicine, get breast implants and go work at Hooters.  LOL

I think you kind of have to have a personality to work at Hooters, so, no.

18 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

I think Maggie has always been one of the more likable characters on this show but she has been selfish and unprofessional in the last two episodes. It's not just about her, what about the patients? Not a great move to ditch the operating room in the middle of a surgery.

Yeah, nothing noble about carrying on when you really are not able to focus and do the best for the patient.  

[Texasmom1970]

Not only is Natalies bf whatever always hanging around creepy does nobody care he is lurking all around the er dept. Rules, security, nobody?

[Guildford]

3 minutes ago, Texasmom1970 said:

Not only is Natalies bf whatever always hanging around creepy does nobody care he is lurking all around the er dept. Rules, security, nobody?

Nobody seems to notice him except Will, who always seems to be in the vicinity when the creepy stalkerish BF is lurking in dark halls and corners....They probably know each other from the 'how to be a creepy obsessed stalker class' they both seem certified in.

[CoyoteBlue]

16 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Probably not his name, probably not his kids.

Well, I mean... one of them isn't. Remember how Natalie gave birth to a kid once upon a time?

[SG11]

RedDoc has no credibility with Nataloon.

He has a point that she needs to be supervised for the patients well-being and her  protection. But insisting that HE does it “off the books” makes him look like her crazy stalker boyfriend 2.0. He should be assigning that to a disinterested third party.

New Cowboy Doc is just like Old Cowboy Doc without a beard. 

April... ugh.

And the way Choi was behaving with theFrozen Head Boy... what is it about that hospital that makes everyone there ignore the patient’s wishes regardless of the legal steps they have taken to protect them?

[Donder]

This show is not the same without Rhodes......something is missing

[WinJet0819]

On 10/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, spunky said:

Will really should have reported her. She had the audacity to become petulant because her supervisor said he's going to supervise her cases from now on. This is an example of why supervisors should not date subordinates. Her fiance is nothing more than a creepy stalker, who more than likely killed his wife.

Agree with all of this. I am glad Will is taking a stand, but it's getting really tired constantly seeing him look over at Natalie. It's been like this every episode that they've been apart. Man, move on. When she does get her memory back, she'll come back to you. But until then, he just seems to be an overbearing security blanket. And because of his relationship with Natalie, it kind of hurts his credibility when he says he's going to be supervising her cases. She doesn't believe it's just to be cautious to make sure she's back to full health. She has it in her mind that it's out of spite for her not being with him. And that shouldn't be, and it wouldn't fly in any normal hospital.

Edited October 13, 2019 by WinJet0819

[statsgirl]

While self-confidence is generally a good thing, Natalie has never had any self-awareness or any sense that she's ever wrong. She's like April in that.

[cinsays]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

If people are going to commit suicide (earlier episode) or have their bodies frozen, they ought to go somewhere else other than a hospital.   Emergency Rooms are supposed to be used to try and save peoples lives. 

Yeah, I would imagine getting push-back from most hospitals would be to discourage going along with this, so these cryogenic type places would have their own hospital type place to take care of the body.  Seems like there might be too big a fear of lawsuits for an honorable hospital to participate, if not just moral considerations.

[statsgirl]

The anvil for this episode:  People who can't accept their own mortality or limitations.

Exhibit A:  Maggie.

Exhibit B:  Ceecee. Why is Dr. Charles so good at understanding patients but terrible at understanding his own wife? As soon as she said that she didn't want a cast, I said that it's not about the arm but about the limited time she has left. He should be helping her with that, not fighting her.

Exhibit C;  Natalie.  But because it's Natalie, she's right in the end

Last time I noticed, Natalie was still a resident and Will an attending.  Did I miss when she finished her residency and became an attending in her own right?

Exhibit D;  April. She thinks she's a doctor and can boss even fourth year residents around. She thinks she's a god. But because it's April, she gets a promotion.

Exhibit E:  the kid who wanted to be frozen.

The new surgical resident is so arrogant. I can't believe they got rid of Connor for him.

[Lyanna19]

On 10/12/2019 at 5:31 AM, Donder said:

This show is not the same without Rhodes......something is missing

Hear! Hear! 

[Lyanna19]

19 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The new surgical resident is so arrogant. I can't believe they got rid of Connor for him.

Finally! Someone who agrees with me! 😊 I could stand his arrogance if it wasn't so blatant, it seems he thinks he must be arrogant, so it comes across as acting.... I miss Connor.... 😢 

[cinsays]

4 hours ago, Lyanna19 said:

Finally! Someone who agrees with me! 😊 I could stand his arrogance if it wasn't so blatant, it seems he thinks he must be arrogant, so it comes across as acting.... I miss Connor.... 😢 

So glad you said this!  I can't stand the new guy - so smug and kind of creepy, in my opinion.

[SG11]

Couldn’t stand Connor, the smug, arrogant cowboy who always tries the impossible procedure and always succeeds.

The new guy? Smug, arrogant cowboy who always tries the impossible procedure and so far, always succeeds.

Not seeing the difference minus the bionic beard.

It seems the show is using up Connor scripts on the new guy as not to waste them.

Personally, I miss Eva. She would still be the most interesting cast member today, the loony psychopathic killer in the middle of a staff of boring Soap Opera Dimwits.

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/9/2019 at 2:31 PM, cathmed said:

Dr. Marcel is OK but they've truly just made him a Connor clone, imo. 

Not to mention, if Dr. Marcel is such an ED superstar, why did we never hear of him before? In the past, every time any little thing happened, everyone ran to get Rhodes...

On 10/10/2019 at 1:23 AM, izabella said:

Natalie's bf is creepy.  Why is he always hanging around the hospital with the kids for no reason?

My biggest question is just how is the guy supporting himself and his child? I could see his taking a leave from work right after his daughter was born, as his wife died and the baby was pretty sick. But now it's been, what, six months? And he has all this time to spend babysitting? Are we supposed to believe that Natalie is supporting them all at this point?

Also, remember the HUGE fuss Natalie made about Will becoming a more permanent part of Owen's life? And that was when Owen was a good bit younger and didn't really understand, AND considering that Will had known Natalie for years at that point. Then she meets Phillip, and five minutes later, has no problem at all dragging Owen into their Happy Family scenario?

On 10/10/2019 at 11:42 AM, sadie said:

Dr Charles’ wife was on my last nerve. Enough about the freaking cake! I wanted to slap her. Are we supposed to feel bad for her because she’s sick or do the writers want us to hate her so when she dies we won’t feel sad.

I was thinking that maybe the changes in her behavior are all part of her illness? Because really, for someone who was all but swirling around the drain in the spring, she's looking pretty hale and hearty now...

Did anyone notice the bit at the very end, when Dr Charles poured the boiling water into her tea mug? And she immediately lifted it to her mouth, blew on it for one split second, then started drinking? WTF?? Not only would she have scalded the hell out of her mouth, but the tea wouldn't even have had any time to steep. She would have been drinking plain hot water. I couldn't figure out if this was just a lapse in the part of the writers, or if it was supposed to be more weird behavior like the Baked Alaska hysteria...or if CC can't differentiate temperatures or something...

[cathmed]

On 10/10/2019 at 1:16 AM, sheetmoss said:

My understanding is Colin Donnell wanted to leave the show

I think that may have been decided, by Colin, after he was "fired".   He was, naturally, the epitome of grace, modesty and honor with his departure (his tweets).   From everything I read, he was surprised not to be returning for S5.  I believe many posters here stated that his wife was on Broadway, in a play, etc., and that Colin has a wonderful singing voice.  Glad he had other options due  to his "abrupt departure".   Still a huge mistake on the showrunner's part, imo.  Chexton and now triangle "Philalie" is more than I can stomach.