S04.E03: Unhinged

[Cementhead]

When Cassidy says "you're not going to sit beside me, are you?" to Kevin at the AA meeting, I surprised myself by saying out loud, "you can come sit by me."  I don't normally make a habit of talking back to the television.  But not only is Justin Hartley handsome and incredibly charismatic; he has a voice that could melt steel. 

Based on this episode, I am not yet a big fan of Cassidy or Jennifer Morrison.  I have never seen Morrison act in anything, my only real exposure to her is seeing her occasionally on the Go Fug Yourself web site wearing questionable clothing.  But based on the little bits of her in this episode, I thought her acting was bad.  The laughing scene in the AA meeting?  Eesh.  That was baad.  I could see her 'acting' from all the way over here.  Perhaps she will grow on me. 

But also to that point, I am SO relieved to see that they are finally going to lighten up the character of Nicky because Griffin Dunne really and truly kills me in this role.  It has even pained me to watch him a few times because he is capturing how tortured and sad Nicky is so unbelievably well that I don't think my poor, sappy heart could take much more of it so please, I welcome this levity, show!

Lastly, is it just me or could we do with a LOT LESS "Bug" and "Katie Girl?"  Please, show, just once, could the parents call Kate something else, anything else?  Can we get a "honey" or a "sweetie" every once in a while or even maybe a, oh, I dunno, "Kate?"  Because the constant "Bug" and "Katie Girl" is making me twitch. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Cementhead
Because it's Cassidy not Cassie.

[abc123baby]

re: Randall and the shoes. 

Randall knew about the dress code. Randall wore them SPECIFICALLY for the teacher. He wanted to make a connection. They were Air Jordans, Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls, He had found out about the teacher in advance and wanted to connect with the new black teacher from CHICAGO, so he brought them and SPECIFICALLY wore them in the class. And was upset not only about the violation but that it didnt work to make the CONNECTION. 

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

Lastly, is it just me or could we do with a LOT LESS "Bug" and "Katie Girl?"  Please, show, just once, could the parents call Kate something else, anything else?  Can we get a "honey" or a "sweetie" every once in a while or even maybe a, oh, I dunno, "Kate?"  Because the constant "Bug" and "Katie Girl" is making me twitch. 

Agreed. I would hate to be called "bug." Especially in middle school. (This from someone whose "nicknames" were pretty much just the occasional shortening of my first name to its first syllable (Al, or occasionally Ali, which is only one letter-sound off from my actual name, and that only by my mom). Which I don't normally like and no one else ever really does but my parents are allowed. When my dad writes me notes/email, he always starts off with "Al," which I love but only from him cuz he's my dad.)

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

Lastly, is it just me or could we do with a LOT LESS "Bug" and "Katie Girl?"  Please, show, just once, could the parents call Kate something else, anything else?  Can we get a "honey" or a "sweetie" every once in a while or even maybe a, oh, I dunno, "Kate?"  Because the constant "Bug" and "Katie Girl" is making me twitch. 

I think Bug is a horrible nickname for your only daughter especially when your don't bother bestowing any nicknames on you other 2 kids.  I am honestly not shocked to see Kate grow up with body issues with Rebecca calling her Bug.  Kate broke my heart when she asked her brothers about boys like a girl who is bigger than them.  

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I think Bug is a horrible nickname for your only daughter especially when your don't bother bestowing any nicknames on you other 2 kids.  I am honestly not shocked to see Kate grow up with body issues with Rebecca calling her Bug.  Kate broke my heart when she asked her brothers about boys like a girl who is bigger than them.  

I’m not a huge fan of nicknames- I think they are only for babies and people with severe intellectual disabilities, I prefer to call people by their legal names, however I respect people’s preference. 

Whats so bad about the nickname “Bug”? Makes me think “lady bug”.....I don’t see the connection between “Bug” and body image. My grandfather (who lived with us) used to call my Mom “fat head”🤣. Ah I miss him. 😔

[ams1001]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I think Bug is a horrible nickname for your only daughter especially when your don't bother bestowing any nicknames on you other 2 kids.  I am honestly not shocked to see Kate grow up with body issues with Rebecca calling her Bug.  Kate broke my heart when she asked her brothers about boys like a girl who is bigger than them.  

I liked Kevin's response, that he was going to marry Cindy Crawford, who is 5'9" and therefore way bigger than him.

I wonder if Movie Star Kevin ever got to meet Cindy Crawford...
 

[izabella]

I don't see Bug having any connection to weight, but I do think it's a nasty little nickname and would give a girl self-esteem issues.  I think of bedbugs or those million legged things that move way faster than they should, unwanted and needing to be squished.  (I know the million legged things eat other, smaller bugs, so I am reluctant to kill them, like spiders, but they creep me the fuck out!).

[Cementhead]

It's not even that I have a specific problem with "Bug" or "Katie Girl" being her nicknames.  It's the frequency of use.  Over & over.  All the time.  While Kevin and Randall are just Kevin and Randall.  It really grates.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

That purple leotard looked so bad on Rebecca. I guess I'm weird because when I'm at home, I just work out in sweats.

Yeah, but the 80s -- Olivia Newton John Let's Get Physical had us all in leotards and head bands.  *cringe*

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, izabella said:

I don't see Bug having any connection to weight, but I do think it's a nasty little nickname and would give a girl self-esteem issues.  I think of bedbugs or those million legged things that move way faster than they should, unwanted and needing to be squished.  (I know the million legged things eat other, smaller bugs, so I am reluctant to kill them, like spiders, but they creep me the fuck out!).

I see body issues as something that encompasses more than weight.  I always got the impression that Kate never really felt pretty especially with Rebecca as her mom.  Katr is starting to enter a time where her body is changing, she feels awkward,  and it is never fun to shoot up to be taller than the boys.  She also looks at the popular girls and sees them somehow immune to these changes.  It's hard on a girl when she first realizes that she is never going to look like the perfect paragon of feminine beauty.  In many ways Rebecca is that.  

[ChicksDigScars]

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 "Anything man...like maybe my wife in case I die heroically in a tragic crackpot disaster."

I just snorted LaCroix all over my keyboard. 

At least it's not sticky like real soda. 

As for "Bug," no. If you want a nickname that will cause you to end up with eating disorders, how about "Pachy," (short for Pachyderm, or elephant), Chubette, and Chubby Cheerleader?  Oh, did I mention that I was a 120 pound high schooler when I was called Chubby Cheerleader, and was also a competitive swimmer? So, the actual "chub" was muscle. Yeah, mom was great. I really miss her. Except not. 

What movie was it where the mom called her daughter "Lady Bug?" I can HEAR the voice that says it, too. 

CROOKLYN. The Alfre Woodard character calls her daughter, "Lady Bug." I knew it would come to me eventually. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by ChicksDigScars

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, ECM1231 said:

I missed this. When did this happen and what was it about? I remember Jae Won kept asking Randall for a minute of his time to talk about some proposal but Randall kept running out of time, because of his open door policy Mondays. 

At the end of the episode Randall shows up where he was supposed to be going when the last monday visitor comes in and everybody has left except Jae-Won.   Randall explains about the firing and then asks Jae-Won to tell him about the proposal and Jae-Won starts talking about what is clearly a marriage proposal.

And he says the  name Hannah so presumably she is female.

Edited October 9, 2019 by bybrandy

[Empress1]

17 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

it is never fun to shoot up to be taller than the boys. 

I come from a line of early bloomers and I'm tall, so this was my life for years. It sucked. I was taller than the boys and more developed than most of the girls, so I got teased a lot. (The other early bloomer and I became friends because we were the only girls we could ask for sanitary products for a good year before other girls started going through puberty). Going to dances and having boys come up to your more-developed-than-other-girls chest was not fun at all. I felt for Kate.

(One of the reasons I love the show Big Mouth is that it demystifies puberty, which is SO important because although everyone goes through it, when YOU are going through it you feel like the only one in the world.)

Kate is also the only one of her siblings who doesn't have A Thing She Is Good At. She mentioned liking choir in a previous episode, but it doesn't seem like she was a standout there in school. Randall is academically gifted and Kevin was athletically gifted, and then successful in a different path when that didn't work out. Kate stands out from her siblings in a number of ways.

[izabella]

31 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I see body issues as something that encompasses more than weight.  I always got the impression that Kate never really felt pretty especially with Rebecca as her mom.  Katr is starting to enter a time where her body is changing, she feels awkward,  and it is never fun to shoot up to be taller than the boys.  She also looks at the popular girls and sees them somehow immune to these changes.  It's hard on a girl when she first realizes that she is never going to look like the perfect paragon of feminine beauty.  In many ways Rebecca is that.  

Ok, this makes a lot of sense to me.  Bug is not a nickname that would make Kate feel pretty.  Quite the opposite.

[qtpye]

6 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I come from a line of early bloomers and I'm tall, so this was my life for years. It sucked. I was taller than the boys and more developed than most of the girls, so I got teased a lot. (The other early bloomer and I became friends because we were the only girls we could ask for sanitary products for a good year before other girls started going through puberty). Going to dances and having boys come up to your more-developed-than-other-girls chest was not fun at all. I felt for Kate.

(One of the reasons I love the show Big Mouth is that it demystifies puberty, which is SO important because although everyone goes through it, when YOU are going through it you feel like the only one in the world.)

Kate is also the only one of her siblings who doesn't have A Thing She Is Good At. She mentioned liking choir in a previous episode, but it doesn't seem like she was a standout there in school. Randall is academically gifted and Kevin was athletically gifted, and then successful in a different path when that didn't work out. Kate stands out from her siblings in a number of ways.

Not to mention her whole family is arguably very good looking. Katie is pretty as well but has low self esteem. She actually got down to a relatively slender size in her teenage years and still did not feel good about herself.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I began to realize how privileged both her and Rebecca are to have men that support them so they can take care of their children full time. Of course, Rebecca never wanted to be a housewife so it wasn't really easy on her but she is still lucky.

I agree that they're lucky, but we also never really saw Rebecca want to do anything to have a realistic career.  She wanted to be a singer - which she was rejected as not star material long before she had kids. That's one part that hasn't made sense to me about Rebecca's story over the seasons. It's like a feeling that she felt forced into this homemaker life, but we also didn't really see her reaching for more other than a pretty unrealistic dream.

I agree that Randall absolutely wore the non-uniform shoes to try to bond with that particular teacher. It backfired so badly that I understood his panic. It was sweet seeing Kevin be there for him in a way that he often wasn't as a teenager.  I really think we're getting a fuller picture of the family dynamics overall.  Kevin wasn't always hating Randall and resenting him, but in a lot of ways he built up to that but then came out of it.  First season Jack came across as a bit of a jerk at times, second season he was a saint, and now we're seeing more flaws mixed in again.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I come from a line of early bloomers and I'm tall, so this was my life for years. It sucked. I was taller than the boys and more developed than most of the girls, so I got teased a lot. (The other early bloomer and I became friends because we were the only girls we could ask for sanitary products for a good year before other girls started going through puberty). Going to dances and having boys come up to your more-developed-than-other-girls chest was not fun at all. I felt for Kate.

(One of the reasons I love the show Big Mouth is that it demystifies puberty, which is SO important because although everyone goes through it, when YOU are going through it you feel like the only one in the world.)

Kate is also the only one of her siblings who doesn't have A Thing She Is Good At. She mentioned liking choir in a previous episode, but it doesn't seem like she was a standout there in school. Randall is academically gifted and Kevin was athletically gifted, and then successful in a different path when that didn't work out. Kate stands out from her siblings in a number of ways.

I was one of the tallest people in my 7th grade class, and most of the boys never caught up.  It took me a few years to feel comfortable enough in my body.  Middle school was not fun.  I do feel for Kate.  

I never though about the fact that Kate is just Kate and not someone with an obvious talent or interests like her brothers.  It happens and it can suck on occasions.  Things like that do make it harder to figure out a college major and career.  I also know the struggle.  I did not figure out what I wanted to do until I was 25, entered graduate school at 26 and did not get a job in my field until I was 32.  I can see where Kate got complacent doing a job she tolerated for years.  Kevin got lucky finding acting after his football career disappeared.  

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

That purple leotard looked so bad on Rebecca. I guess I'm weird because when I'm at home, I just work out in sweats.

Yeah, I worked out to those videos  for years and always just wore sweats or my pajamas. Rebecca made me laugh all dressed up to star in a Jane Fonda video.  One thing about TV characters, no matter how strapped for cash they're supposed to be they're always so much better dressed than I am.

I loved this episode but it did require us to think everyone was dumber than we know they are:  Most cities have a law against parking on the sidewalk for the sake of wheelchairs, children and ordinary pedestrians, that's what sidewalks are for.  Toby should have known better. 

Any restaurant hostess with eyes should have known  Kate couldn't sit in a booth, lots of men and even short busty women have trouble with booths.

Randall would never have gone to school out of uniform, I'll bet he had a fit if Rebecca hadn't ironed his shirt just right.

Jack would have had a habit of double checking his work or he wouldn't have been the good builder he was.

Kate hadn't noticed her husband's stomach was completely gone and she could have seen that in a T-shirt.

Cassidy should have known her son might be chatting innocently with other people in the waiting room.

I guess they're stretching our suspension of disbelief this year.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Any restaurant hostess with eyes should have known  Kate couldn't sit in a booth, lots of men and even short busty women have trouble with booths.

From what I can gather from larger people on Twitter, this is usually not the case.  I follow Roxane Gay on Twitter and she is forever calling out different venues where the chairs do not work for her body, flight attendants who do not know how to handle a fat passenger bringing their own seatbelt extenders,  venues where there are not stairs for her to get on the stage for a reading, etc.  Thin, able-bodied people don't know how to handle people with unruly bodies.  It never occured to the hostess that Kate could not fit into the booth until Kate spelled it out to her.  And most likely, that information went in one ear and out the other.  Toby could have made the reservation at the restaurant, specifically asked for a table not a booth, and they still could have ended up in the situation shown.  

[Pallas]

Young Randall's researching his prospective new favorite teacher before school starts = Young Kevin's researching Minneapolis for his favorite Steeler, after rumors began that the player might be traded to the Vikings. While watching that episode, I briefly wondered if Randall had been paid to/forced to/volunteered to do Kevin's research for him...but the point being made was that Kevin has always been resourceful and even tenacious, if his heart's in the game.

The brothers have more in common than they know. 

[gonzosgirrl]

34 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Jack would have had a habit of double checking his work or he wouldn't have been the good builder he was.

I agree with your other suspension-of-disbelief-required items, but this one.... Man, I consider myself pretty great at my job and I've been doing it a long time, but I have made two significant, costly mistakes over the course of it (thankfully I have a great boss who did not fire me for either). Once due to some pretty heavy distraction in my personal life, and one for which I have no explanation beyond "I fucked up".  So I don't find it unbelievable that Jack simply made a mistake.

I am not exactly sure when this happened in the timeline - was it concurrent with the kids starting seventh grade? But am I dreaming it, or did Miguel say Jack had been with the company 20 years? Does that make sense at all?

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I am not exactly sure when this happened in the timeline - was it concurrent with the kids starting seventh grade? But am I dreaming it, or did Miguel say Jack had been with the company 20 years? Does that make sense at all?

I think it was the same timeline...he was 36 when they were born so he'd be 48 when they're 12 and that would make him 28 when he started at the job. I can't remember if we've seen him starting to work there or not...

[Pallas]

6 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Again I am assuming here, but I think these events are happening in the same year as Jack completely cutting Nicky off.  I can see Jack having some difficulty being the perfect husband/father/employee all of the time while not taking a drink. 

Absolutely. Is it also possible that this is when Jack had begun drinking on the sly? I forget if we know how long that went on before his last summer, when he confessed to Rebecca and quit.

[Driad]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I loved this episode but it did require us to think everyone was dumber than we know they are

It's called an Idiot Plot.  [Warning: time sink.]

[limecoke]

Pretty sad that a vet connects with a therapist only to have the therapist transferred because of budget issues.  Sad, and even more sadly, believable.

The laughing confused me at first but then I figured Kevin yammering about his problems must sound trite to a couple of vets who went through...you know...wars.  

[Veronica]

8 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

Question: Did it seem to anyone else that Jack, forgetting to get the water line inspected before the foundation was installed, out of character? Kind of a lazy excuse for the writers to show how great the Jack/Miguel friendship is. 

I just thought Jack forgot because he was drunk. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Veronica

[voiceover]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:31 PM, tennisgurl said:

 die heroically in a tragic crackpot disaster.

I know you meant "crockpot" but I actually think this works better.

[alexvillage]

I liked the episode, I liked how they didn't overplay Deja's conflict.

I do love how the show picks their actors. I have no idea of who the neighbor is, but I want to believe the producers and writers decided to write that specific character for that actor. 

I am not sure why they had to include that silly "fire hazard" story. That door is not a fire hazard in any place I have been - and I do have to know where those are. The door even had glass on one side. Doors that need to close are heavy doors that actually stop or delay the fire, usually the ones that separates the hallway of buildings from the staircase. Or in big houses that are used for some specific purpose and that have fire escapes from the second floor and up. Then some places might require a door in the interior of the house above the stairs. 

[Johnny Dollar]

Finally somebody (Toby) other than Kevin seems to have a job that can support their lifestyle. 

Griffin Dunne is, by far, the best actor on the show. Even with the cringey material he’s given. 

[amaranta]

On 10/8/2019 at 10:05 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Timothy Omundson! I am so glad to see him return and in good health!

I burst into tears when I realized who the actor was.  This is usually a get misty show for me, and then only sometimes.  But during the stroke speech tear fest number two started and it was a full on ugly cry.

(Love me some Lassiter from Psych.)

Edited October 10, 2019 by amaranta

[Wouldofshouldof]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 9:20 PM, tomsmom said:

Ok how about....

Toby: I have a bad back and need to sit at a table.

My ex is overweight and couldn't sit in a booth, so as soon as I saw the 4 of them at the hostess stand I knew that scene was coming.

[mojoween]

Justin Hartley isn’t normally my bag, but “get up, let’s GO” was the sexiest he has ever been.

Although both he and Cassidy (well, Cassidy’s kid) left garbage in the waiting room chair which is unforgivable.  Take care of your snack bags for crying in the sink.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

I know nothing about city government, and civil servants, but I have a feeling that in Philadelphia city government, you can't just fire someone that easily. (Stories every day about corruption and incompetence at every level, and how hard it is to get rid of the bad apples.)

Deja should have told Tess that her comment about the athlete being hot wasn't a big deal. Most heterosexuals can still recognize that a member of the same sex is good-looking without being attracted to them.

[smartymarty]

Suspension of disbelief: Jack and Rebecca bought Randall Air Jordan's? Randall knew what Air Jordan's are and wanted them?

The actor playing Cassidy played an intern (doctor) on House. Really liked her there, hoping to like her here.

[ShadowFacts]

15 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Suspension of disbelief: Jack and Rebecca bought Randall Air Jordan's? Randall knew what Air Jordan's are and wanted them?

I thought about that, too, but I think they have their birthdays at the very end of summer, and they might have been a birthday present.  He is a serious kid but probably has passing awareness of what's going on in sports and fashion.  Or hears about it from Kevin, who is very into sports. 

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought about that, too, but I think they have their birthdays at the very end of summer, and they might have been a birthday present.  He is a serious kid but probably has passing awareness of what's going on in sports and fashion.  Or hears about it from Kevin, who is very into sports. 

He researched this teacher, who was apparently a Jordan fan, so it makes sense that Randall would research that, too, I think.

[saber5055]

29 minutes ago, MoreCoffeePlease said:

I know nothing about city government, and civil servants, but I have a feeling that in Philadelphia city government, you can't just fire someone that easily. (Stories every day about corruption and incompetence at every level, and how hard it is to get rid of the bad apples.)

Deja should have told Tess that her comment about the athlete being hot wasn't a big deal. Most heterosexuals can still recognize that a member of the same sex is good-looking without being attracted to them.

I worked for the federal government for a number of years, and the goof offs and dead beats couldn't be fired so they were promoted to other divisions so someone else got the problem employees. I'm guessing maybe local governments work the same way.

Word about thinking or saying someone is "hot." It has nothing to do with your sexuality IMO. I'm a straight female yet I can recognize other women as being attractive and hot. And there are plenty of gay men I like to look at. Because someone is attractive doesn't mean you are going to have sex with them, it's an appreciation thing, like a fine painting.

The teen boy telling Deja about his baby got my fur up. He said his girlfriend "got pregnant" like it was all her fault and he didn't have anything to do with it. Why couldn't he say "I got her pregnant," which he did. She didn't do it by herself. And thank goodness for the angel HE is, taking in his baby. Even though he isn't the one carrying the burden. So big deal, kid.

I LOL'd at Kevin coming to Randall's school and asking him what the problem was, didn't he have his shirt tucked deep enough into his old man pants. Great line.

I also got a kick out of Kevin asking which of Mom's signatures Randall wanted, he had them all down.

When did Miguel stop selling clothes and start doing ... whatever job he and Jack had. I thought Jack had a construction company, not an office job. And he'd been there 20 years? I guess he got that job right after having dinner with Rebecca's parents at the country club.

A door off its hinges is not a fire hazard. If it is, my entire house is a fire hazard. That was a dumbass comment, but maybe that woman made it up so she could have her way bossing Randall around. If it were true, the fire department would have been there after reading the story and seeing the pic in the local paper.

I did not think Kevin's comment in that meeting was the least bit funny, and certainly not the hysterical moment the show made it into. But those three have to bond somehow.

And Cassidy's boy was in the waiting room at the first meeting. Where did mom leave him during the AA meeting?

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

And Cassidy's boy was in the waiting room at the first meeting. Where did mom leave him during the AA meeting?

He was probably with his dad at the time. 

4 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

A door off its hinges is not a fire hazard. If it is, my entire house is a fire hazard. That was a dumbass comment, but maybe that woman made it up so she could have her way bossing Randall around. If it were true, the fire department would have been there after reading the story and seeing the pic in the local paper.

From what I've read from others, it less about the door off its hinges being the fire hazard, but having no door to Randall's office that's the fire hazard, as there'd be no door to stop the fire from quickly spreading into his office, if he was there.

[saber5055]

When did Toby and Kate move, and why? I don't remember that story line. And too funny that Kate hadn't seen Toby without his shirt in what, six months? I guess that answers the question of the kind of sex they have (if anyone cares). Answer: They don't.

Is anyone ever going to unload that Pod in the driveway. You know, like move into the house? No friends Toby? No paid movers? Except the house isn't empty. So what's that Pod doing there anyway.

Toby should have asked for a TABLE for four in that restaurant, except then we wouldn't have to suffer through more POOR ME stuff from Kate. And the show really likes to put that on viewers.

Kevin, young and old versions, won this episode.

[saber5055]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

From what I've read from others, it less about the door off its hinges being the fire hazard, but having no door to Randall's office that's the fire hazard, as there'd be no door to stop the fire from quickly spreading into his office, if he was there.

A fire door is heavy metal, as another poster noted above. An office door is not a fire door. If Randall was in his office and a fire spread into it because of no door, Randall would be dead if he closed the door and shut himself in. The "fire hazard" is pure and total BS. Ask a fireman. Any fireman. The fire hazard line was an excuse made up by Bernice or whatever her name was because Randall was doing something she didn't like. SHE wanted the door put back on. Not the fire department.

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

He was probably with his dad at the time. 

I thought Kevin and Nicky went right from the vet meeting to the AA meeting, with a small stop at the local bar. If Cassidy left the kid in the waiting room at the vet meeting, the kid was probably trolling around the streets during the AA meeting, hanging out with 40-year-old guys again.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

When did Toby and Kate move, and why? I don't remember that story line. And too funny that Kate hadn't seen Toby without his shirt in what, six months? I guess that answers the question of the kind of sex they have (if anyone cares). Answer: They don't.

I think Toby/Kate said that they were going to move into an actual home, not an apartment, because of the baby. Or that's what I assume their reasoning is (not sure if they specifically stated last season that they'd be moving). 

Kate did tell Toby that she was so distracted by baby Jack that she hadn't noticed. But I assume they haven't had sex since the baby was born, which makes sense. She did say that she noticed that he lost weight, but not that he was as fit as he was.

4 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

A fire door is heavy metal, as another poster noted above. An office door is not a fire door. If Randall was in his office and a fire spread into it because of no door, Randall would be dead if he closed the door and shut himself in. The "fire hazard" is pure and total BS. Ask a fireman. Any fireman. The fire hazard line was an excuse made up by Bernice or whatever her name was because Randall was doing something she didn't like. SHE wanted the door put back on. Not the fire department.

And I definitely don't disagree that it was Bernice throwing a fit to try to get things done her way. If she really wanted Randall to put the damn door on, she would have called the fire department herself to report it. That's what happened during my high school graduation, when someone called the fire department for "too many people in the auditorium" AKA there were only a few people who needed to stand and it ended up screwing things over for us graduates (we were all ushered out of the auditorium so we couldn't see our friends walk across the aisle, and then all the parents were kicked out for the valedictorian speeches and other things). 

Needless to say, there are real sticklers who like ruining stuff for the rest of us.

Another reason why Bernice's firing was justified.

[Pallas]

For me, this episode crystallized how, over the life of the series, the two sets of Young Pearsons were designed to give heft and texture to the family story. We've been watching the Big 3 played by set #1 age from 9-12, and the Big 3 played by set #2 from 15-18. In two more years, the first set will be nearly -- but not quite -- the initial age of the second. And those three young Pearsons will all turn 21.

[Runningwild]

Hopefully I haven’t been logged out again and will be able to post this time. Sorry I don’t have the quoted posts in my post. 
 

As far as the fire hazard, I’ve seen videos where they show the difference between having closed doors (a few flames) and having open doors (house completely engulfed).  Maybe that’s what they were going for. I’m surprised Randall didn’t Pearson her with his sad story. 
 

As far as Cassidy goes, she overreacted to Kevin sitting with her boy. And she was mean at the meeting. But she does not have free housing or some great pension. She is a veteran. She is no longer in the military. Her free healthcare? The VA. Are they properly caring for her and her PTSD? Doubtful. She most likely is hiding dark, dark memories that we would never want to see. She’s a younger version of Nicky for the most part. Why show compassion for Nicky being a jerk and not her?

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

As far as the fire hazard, I’ve seen videos where they show the difference between having closed doors (a few flames) and having open doors (house completely engulfed).  Maybe that’s what they were going for. I’m surprised Randall didn’t Pearson her with his sad story. 

That’s what I’ve heard too. It’s why firefighters recommend sleeping with your doors shut. It lowers the amount of smoke that can get in a room, and stops flames from spreading as quickly. Open floor plans are much more dangerous in a fire than closed off rooms. Closing doors behind you as you evacuate can help keep the fire from spreading as quickly too.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Jeddah

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

From what I've read from others, it less about the door off its hinges being the fire hazard, but having no door to Randall's office that's the fire hazard, as there'd be no door to stop the fire from quickly spreading into his office, if he was there.

I think that's correct.  There is a dramatic difference between having a door open or closed as to how fast a fire will spread.  It doesn't have to be a metal fire door.  It's why it's recommended that people sleep with their bedroom door closed.  Randall should be a little more concerned about it considering his family's fire history.

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

For me, this episode crystallized how, over the life of the series, the two sets of Young Pearsons were designed to give heft and texture to the family story. We've been watching the Big 3 played by set #1 age from 9-12, and the Big 3 played by set #2 from 15-18. In two more years, the first set will be nearly -- but not quite -- the initial age of the second. And those three young Pearsons will all turn 21.

I think it really works well due to the very good young actors.  I'd like to see the high school set again soon.  We've seen the Three in their twenties played by the adult set, so that teen set is going to get squeezed soon and I really like those actors.

Jeddah and Runningwild, sorry, did not see your fire safety info before posting.

Edited October 10, 2019 by ShadowFacts

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

As far as Cassidy goes, she overreacted to Kevin sitting with her boy. And she was mean at the meeting. But she does not have free housing or some great pension. She is a veteran. She is no longer in the military. Her free healthcare? The VA. Are they properly caring for her and her PTSD? Doubtful. She most likely is hiding dark, dark memories that we would never want to see. She’s a younger version of Nicky for the most part. Why show compassion for Nicky being a jerk and not her?

i have no problem with anyone having compassion for Cassidy. But I don't like how the show was making her behavior at the AA meeting out to be an endearing moment that brought her, Kevin and NIcky together.

And I say this as someone who completely understands inappropriate laughter. Sometimes you just can't help it. And Kevin had just used the phrase "jowl city," which is kind of inherently funny.

But to explain your laughter by saying, "This is stupid?" Ugh. That's just obnoxious. There's no requirement that you can only share at AA if your problem is life-and-death.

And frankly, if your career is based on your physical attractiveness, it's completely valid to worry that your work might dry up. It's not as if he asked everyone to feel sorry for him, or implied that his problems were worse than anyone else's.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Blakeston

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

She is a veteran. She is no longer in the military. Her free healthcare? The VA. Are they properly caring for her and her PTSD? Doubtful.

Oh, I didn't realize she had quit the military! I thought she was just home from her tour of duty and sent to the closest VA hospital for  PTSD therapy.   I must have missed information in her scenes when I was still not sure I had the right show. 

My husband served in the military for 22 years and during that time I, as a military spouse, was sent to all sorts of places for medical care so the VA hospital for a still active duty soldier didn't seem odd to me.

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

She’s a younger version of Nicky for the most part. Why show compassion for Nicky being a jerk and not her?

 She started the laughing at Kevin because she thought his problems were funny and didn't compare with hers.  I  was suggesting that he might have worries that were different from hers but still valid.  I didn't compare her to Nicky at all or say she didn't deserve compassion. 

[ams1001]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Oh, I didn't realize she had quit the military! I thought she was just home from her tour of duty and sent to the closest VA hospital for  PTSD therapy.   I must have missed information in her scenes when I was still not sure I had the right show. 

I'm not sure if they said it explicitly, but she did mention looking (unsuccessfully) for jobs, so I assumed she was discharged from the service. (Whether because of something specific that happened or just that her term of enlistment was over or whatever, I don't know.)

[Lady Calypso]

36 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think that's correct.  There is a dramatic difference between having a door open or closed as to how fast a fire will spread.  It doesn't have to be a metal fire door.  It's why it's recommended that people sleep with their bedroom door closed.  Randall should be a little more concerned about it considering his family's fire history.

 

Hence why I see why Bernice brought it up...but I also recognize that her issue was more with how Randall was running things and how she disagreed with his Open Door Mondays, or whatever. It's clear that she used the actual door off its hinges as an opening (heh) to express her opinion toward Randall.

21 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

i have no problem with anyone having compassion for Cassidy. But I don't like how the show was making her behavior at the AA meeting out to be an endearing moment that brought her, Kevin and NIcky together.

And I say this as someone who completely understands inappropriate laughter. Sometimes you just can't help it. And Kevin had just used the phrase "jowl city," which is kind of inherently funny.

But to explain your laughter by saying, "This is stupid?" Ugh. That's just obnoxious. There's no requirement that you can only share at AA if your problem is life-and-death.

Yeah, that whole scene felt off. At the very least, it felt off that Kevin would join in on the laughter. I get the purpose of the scene, but I think it would have been better if it was just Nicky and Cassidy laughing their asses off and perhaps the only contribution Kevin would have is a small smile. I didn't see the need for him to join in on the laughter, other than trying to make Cassidy/Nicky not look like total assholes.

[AriAu]

So after listening to Toby talking about wanting to get healthy so he wouldn't drop dead and seeing Kate's reaction, I decided to go back and watch the flash forward from last season. It seems like the implication was that Kate and Toby split up at some point and that's why he got the "glad you decided to come" from Randall and Toby's look etc... 

But what if instead Kate died and he became sorta estranged either because of something Rebecca said or his feelings of guilt or.... who knows. 

And, while that snippet has been dissected like the Zapruder tape, but  Toby says he talked to Jack and that they were on the way and everyone assumes that "they" means Jack and Kate, but we now know that Jack is married so "they" could mean Jack and Lucy, his wife.

Anyways, that interaction made me think about it again