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S03.E10: Treat Me Right

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6 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Emma and her b f remind me of the not so friendly sibling roommates from the movie Bridesmaids.

Omg, thank you! I was trying to place it and could not. That is exactly who she reminds me of. 

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On 10/5/2019 at 11:52 AM, Mrs. Hanson said:

I am calling then Darcy and Starcy from now on.

But, that's not fair!  Why can't it be Dacey and Stacey?  Tit for tat! 

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I wonder if Angela knows what a bloodline is. When she was talking to her daughter about the egg, she said I need it to be from MY bloodline, and she was motioning around her belly. Maybe she believes the baby would be of her bloodline, and not her daughters, because it was in her womb and shared her blood. But because it wasn’t in her daughters womb then it won’t be part of daughters bloodline, and she thinks that’s  ok. 

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17 minutes ago, Hannah94 said:

Omg, thank you! I was trying to place it and could not. That is exactly who she reminds me of. 

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Ben turned out to be a disappointment.

He works with a youth group and wants to be ordained as a pastor. He is looking for a wife with strong christian values, who will be a loving stepmother for his 5 year old son.    

Then he meets Akinyi and she tells him point-blank that she doesn't want to be a stepmother to Grayson. If Grayson was really his first priority, as he claims, this should have been the end of his courtship. Instead he was more upset about her getting drunk from one measly margarita. How can he look at her and think that she is suitable for the role of preacher's wife and loving stepmother? She isn't honest, she isn't charming, she isn't anywhere near as beautiful as her filtered and photoshopped pictures, ... and yet when Ben is on the phone with his friend, he whines "I love her" as if that sentence is the clincher. I bet, just like Rebecca couldn't say what she loves about Zied, Ben couldn't name one thing he loves about Akinyi.        Ben's no different than all the other guys and gals chasing pussy and dick. He just tries to keep the appearance of having  the moral high ground by getting married before sex.

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3 hours ago, KateHearts said:

Rebecca is one of those people who creates her own view of her reality and will never waver from it.  

"YOU THOUGHT I HAD PICTURES OF MY EX ON MY PHONE??? YOU THOUGHT I HAD PICTURES OF MY EX ON MY PHONE???"  Ummm... no, he didn't think; they were ON YOUR PHONE, Rebecca! Same with the "technically married" stuff.  If you filed for divorce basically yesterday, you are married.  Not "technically," and that word doesn't make it any less real.  Add to that she is a detective yet, after a supposedly horrific relationship with another Muslim man, refuses to do a background check on Zied, as she is sexting him and giving him money for "whatever he needs." Her reasonable daughter reminds her (gently and lovingly) of her past failures with men, yet Beck is sure this is real. Because, you know- he uses so many emojis!  And yeah, he has a job, doing something with, like, TV shows and audiences.  She never sees him go to work, but "I know he works hard!"

And here she is, out in the desert, questioning HIS honesty and loyalty. And as soon as he is the littlest bit displeased with something she's acting questionably about, she becomes indignant. 

Do we wonder why Rebecca is looking at 3 failed marriages and another oncoming train wreck?

I was floored by "his jealousy came out of nowhere!"

The fuck?  Did TLC hire body doubles and do a dramatic re-enactment of zied telling Rebecca outright that he was jealous and controlling?  How did that come out of nowhere if he told you that????

It is, by far, one of the most bizarre things about this entire story.  He didn't just leave her bread crumbs, he outright told her he was jealous and controlling!  Those exact words!  

It would be like me telling someone "I'm going to eat this hamburger" and then the person being absolutely shocked when I ate the hamburger.  Like what the hell?  

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2 minutes ago, Cini said:

Ben turned out to be a disappointment.

He works with a youth group and wants to be ordained as a pastor. He is looking for a wife with strong christian values, who will be a loving stepmother for his 5 year old son.    

Then he meets Akinyi and she tells him point-blank that she doesn't want to be a stepmother to Grayson. If Grayson was really his first priority, as he claims, this should have been the end of his courtship. Instead he was more upset about her getting drunk from one measly margarita. How can he look at her and think that she is suitable for the role of preacher's wife and loving stepmother? She isn't honest, she isn't charming, she isn't anywhere near as beautiful as her filtered and photoshopped pictures, ... and yet when Ben is on the phone with his friend, he whines "I love her" as if that sentence is the clincher. I bet, just like Rebecca couldn't say what she loves about Zied, Ben couldn't name one thing he loves about Akinyi.        Ben's no different than all the other guys and gals chasing pussy and dick. He just tries to keep the appearance of having  the moral high ground by getting married before sex.

I generally agree that Ben is veering into "but I love her" territory without anything more than physical attraction because clearly the person he "fell in love with" was an act. 

But, I think, given the sunken cost fallacy, that akyinis statements about Grayson could have been seen more as nerves and concern and less the clear fact that she doesn't want Grayson around (which is very evident).  Given Ben's level of committment at this point and his desire to even become engaged after everything I think he is looking for any way in his mind he can justify his continued involvement.  

I think akyini would have been more direct had she and Ben had sex.  But she very clearly doesn't want to deal with Grayson. 

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10 hours ago, Miss Chevious said:

And if having kids is so darn important to Mykull, why in the world does he hook up with an older woman who’s way past her childbearing years. Makes no sense. 

I wonder how much he knows about women's reproductive systems and what menopause means.

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18 hours ago, Matty said:

How did Akinyi get so wasted on one watered down margarita? Manufactured drama perhaps?

I think so. Watch the margarita glass in the scene, she is shown emptying it, and it’s full in the next shot. There is a completely different fruity drink in another scene, then back to a half-full margarita.

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17 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

Just a thought, but couldn't he wait 7 more years or whatever until the girl is 18?

Isn't that what some single parents do so as not to impact the kid and cause havoc with the stresses and strains?

What??? Why? She's not even his child? And her mother didn't wait.

16 hours ago, nytonc said:

Like the other espicy Columbian Pao

Pao is actually pretty, tho. Jeniffer is a little horsey.

16 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Akinyi is as stupid as that girl from Haiti; she's hooked the guy but can't reel him in, because she is a big old stupid dumdum.

The young woman from Haiti had both of those old fools fighting over her but decided she didn't want either.

Edited by BallisticNikki
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3 minutes ago, BallisticNikki said:

Pao is actually pretty, tho. Jeniffer is a little horsey.

I think Pao is fugly. I guess looks are subjective.

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12 hours ago, RealReality said:

But how in the world was Ben thinking he was going to take her to the US and maybe send her back to Kenya and she would still be able to hold onto her pretend virginity.  

Why would he care? If anything, It's more leverage to keep her from ever leaving him.

Yeah, it would be an embarrassment if she had to return to Nigeria after being in the US, but she was at least married while she was in the US. She could say he died or something.

10 hours ago, DiamondGirl said:

I wouldn’t be too sure in this case.  From what I’ve read, Angela has had her own belligerent encounters with the law at home, so I don’t think she has much credibility there.

And she could move a few miles down the road, across the county line and be fine once more. Not the case w/ Michael.

2 hours ago, Tini said:

I wonder if Angela knows what a bloodline is. When she was talking to her daughter about the egg, she said I need it to be from MY bloodline, and she was motioning around her belly. Maybe she believes the baby would be of her bloodline, and not her daughters, because it was in her womb and shared her blood. But because it wasn’t in her daughters womb then it won’t be part of daughters bloodline, and she thinks that’s  ok. 

It would still be Angela's bloodline. Bloodline refers to all of one's recent ancestors.

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17 hours ago, GoGamecox said:

One of my very gay friends used to always be attracted to gorgeous women who were way out of his league before he was out of the closet. I started to wonder if he picked them because when he couldn't get them, then he could kind of shrug and do the "well, I tried to date women but they weren't interested in me" thing and thus had a reason to not be dating chicks and to be alone. He just wasn't ready to be out of the closet. I'm wondering if Tim has the same inclination? 

Tim really is a mystery, isn't he?  Could he have been so scarred by bullying that he is straight but unable to perform sexually?  Maybe he is gay.  He is frightened of so many things (including sexual intercourse); he wants to do "normal couple stuff," which apparently is sitting at cafes and parks, interacting with little girls (does he like little boys as much--not suggesting anything wrong here, just curious), and now we know shopping--did you see his face light up at the prospect of buying Jeffiner clothing?  He sat there in the store a little impatiently, checking his (color-coordinated) watch, which is what my husband, who is not afraid of sexual intercourse but does have a fear of heights, does on the very rare occasions he is forced to go shopping with me.  Grooming and appearances are very important to him (is he plucking those brows daily--wouldn't they have started growing back by now?); he is attracted to women who are models or modelistic--but he can't seal the deal.

He doesn't work out, apparently, because he is very underdeveloped (imo; I may be wrong about this), so I suspect he is extremely careful about his diet, which is always a treat for the partner.  I'm beginning to think that those narrow shoulders are a point of pride for him.  But many straight men don't work out and don't go for the muscley look, so that's nothing.

He does look like a dandy, but I'm familiar only with historical types like Beau Brummell, whose sexuality is not clear to me, so that label doesn't help me much.

Maybe he is deeply, deeply closeted.  Veronica's snide manner in asking Jeffiner (who I think is gorgeous but a little horse-faced) about their "intimacy" indicates that this is not a unique situation.  If he is a gay man in deep denial, how sad for him, and how much energy he is expending on maintaining this facade.

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17 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Akinyi is as stupid as that girl from Haiti; she's hooked the guy but can't reel him in, because she is a big old stupid dumdum. Ben is: deeply religious, devoted to his son, doesn't approve of public drunkenness (OK, so maybe that wasn't immediately apparent but better to err on the side of caution). So Akinyi, if she was playing to win, would have pretended she was positively dying to meet Grayson, played the part of a modest, churchy girl, and opted for hymn singing and Bible reading over knocking back a margarita and toppling over. She would have tried to make him comfortable with her family and tried to make him feel, if not at home, then at least a happy visitor. Instead she calls attention to how he stands out and refuses to communicate how to get on with her family, putting him in a wildly awkward situation. She's an idiot. Its like she wants to run Ben off. 

This is genius.

She's so afraid he's going to slip the hook that she's acting a whole lot shadier than she needs to.

You're absolutely right.  She has raised every red flag in the red flag factory, and she didn't need to. 

She'll do better with the next one.

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18 hours ago, GoGamecox said:

One of my very gay friends used to always be attracted to gorgeous women who were way out of his league before he was out of the closet. I started to wonder if he picked them because when he couldn't get them, then he could kind of shrug and do the "well, I tried to date women but they weren't interested in me" thing and thus had a reason to not be dating chicks and to be alone. He just wasn't ready to be out of the closet. I'm wondering if Tim has the same inclination? 

Yep! My mother used to say this about my obviously-gay-but-still-in-the-closet friend in high school who used to pretend to like me. If he spends the next 4 yrs chasing a girl totally out of his league, he won't have to explain to anyone why he is isn't dating.

I don't necessarily think he's GAY but he doesn't desire these women like an average hetero guy would.

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15 hours ago, magemaud said:

I read somewhere that Tom breeds championship bulldogs. Check out his FB page, he mentions bulldogs but not tenacious Terrier Darcey 

Wrong breed of bitch.

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19 hours ago, Matty said:

Zied's nickname here, "The Blob", is so fitting. His huge belly sticking out, which he accentuates by wearing those tight little sweaters of his, is not appealing. Not to mention the lank, stringy, greasy hair. Of all the Tunisian/Moroccan love rats who have appeared on the various iterations of the 90 Day Fiance franchise, Zied, Mohammad, Azan, and Aladin, Aladin is definitely the gold standard. By that, I mean he is the best looking, smartest, and only financially solvent one of the group.

Which brings me back to- WHAT THE HECK IS HIS DEAL? He can do so much better than Laura!

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4 minutes ago, queenbee24 said:

Which brings me back to- WHAT THE HECK IS HIS DEAL? He can do so much better than Laura!

I find Aladdin and Tim equally confusing, for different reasons.

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I’ve been so distracted by Zied’s bulbous belly that until this week’s episode I didn’t notice his lard ass.  When he was waddling over in the sand before he choked Rebecca without actually choking her.

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On 10/6/2019 at 8:32 PM, nytonc said:

Why is she always shaking her head? She looks like she has Parkinson’s.  

I noticed that too and I'm thinking maybe she's way more of an alcoholic than we see? As in if she starts sobering up she gets alcohol shakes?

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I bet Darcey had never even heard the phrase "tit for tat" before Tom said it. She's now using it like it was the new "word of the day" on her toilet paper roll. Knowing Darcey, she may even be confused enough to think that it really does reference her breasts.

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3 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I bet Darcey had never even heard the phrase "tit for tat" before Tom said it. She's now using it like it was the new "word of the day" on her toilet paper roll. Knowing Darcey, she may even be confused enough to think that it really does reference her breasts.

She could ask Jay (of Ashley and) what it means.

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22 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:
On 10/6/2019 at 2:37 PM, ChristmasJones said:

Is this really episode 10?  Confused by the numbers...... it says episode 15 aired on 9/22 (as per titles in this forum).

I know. Me too.  There are other episode numbers that don't seem to correspond.  I don't get it. 

TLC gave episode numbers to their "More to Love" episodes, which don't get their own episode threads because that would be stupid.  

So we have to live like this, in blows-dealt squalor. 

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On 10/6/2019 at 9:32 PM, nytonc said:

Anyone who dates Darcy has to be prepared to haul around an absurd amount of luggage (and all of her baggage she’s dragging).  Seriously, 3 giant bags and a carry-on  for a week in Albania???

Why is she always shaking her head? She looks like she has Parkinson’s.  
  
Big Ange, “I could see his friends laughing in the background at mah misery! Who does that?”  We do!
OMG Mahkle went to a party with his friends when Big Ange was sick and miserable and needed him on the phone with her? The nerve.  So let’s recap: He can’t work, can’t have friends, can’t be seen on a boat with a woman in the background, can’t bribe her with a coke or cake and evidently can’t have any other interests life unless it includes Medusa.  I really hope he’s scamming her but I can’t imagine why on earth he would settle for her. There are plenty of other desperate women who would probably not make his life so  miserable. 
 

if Zied is so much jealous of a picture of Rebecca’s ex I can wait til she tells him she’s technically still married!
 

Speaking of luggage, it’s designer too.  Where’s all the money coming From?  Certainly not all from this show.

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2 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

Speaking of luggage, it’s designer too.  Where’s all the money coming From?  Certainly not all from this show.

Looked like she had a different set of designer luggage the first season. Wears Louboutins, drives a Range. She has all the cool stuff! 

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On 10/6/2019 at 6:32 PM, nytonc said:

Anyone who dates Darcy has to be prepared to haul around an absurd amount of luggage (and all of her baggage she’s dragging).

She just needs someone to "tote" it for her...

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2 minutes ago, lh25 said:

She just needs someone to "tote" it for her...

Haha .. what’s his face didn’t even help her down the stairs with it.  Some gentleman.  Underneath he probably can’t stand her .. just wanted to be on t.v.

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On 10/6/2019 at 8:28 PM, Silver Bells said:

You would think Zied would learn how to speak a little English better by now.  He says all his words backwards.  Rebecca has been looking older lately.  What’s with all of them calling the women baby?  zied and Michael can’t wait to get to the states fast enough.

Rebecca just pisses me off with the language issue. Wasn't she married to an Arab, why does she have trouble understanding Zied's accent? When he made a joke about the Sahara being called Las Vegas, she said "huh?" I totally understood him the first time. Yep, getting to the U.S. is his game plan. 

On 10/7/2019 at 8:57 AM, Silver Bells said:

I wish Ziad would just wash that hair or get a haircut.  And, Ziad, Rebecca and Angela are getting fatter by the minute.  What are they eating there?

I'm thinking the Americans are eating a lot of pasta & sweets, which would be more familiar. 

Also on the getting fatter every week list is Laura, (although she's on The Other Way.) It looked like she had gained 50 pounds since the beginning to her 3rd wedding day.

14 hours ago, Mothra said:

I think Zied's English is lightyears ahead of Rebecca's Arabic--and this isn't her first time at the rodeo.

Yep, totally agree & discussed above. Zied might try harder to learn & speak English since Rebecca intends to put him to work asap. What do these two have in common? And why is she not slightly embarrassed by his current ill-fitting clothing? Obviously it's old and from a skinnier time. I wish she'd spend a few American bucks on a pair of jeans and a couple of XXL shirts for the love of her life. 

Ben & Bikini - I have to agree with everyone who believes she's up to something nefarious. Poor sweaty, weak Ben doesn't appear to have the cajones to stand up to anyone in rubble village. Is it any wonder he searched the ends of the earth for what he thought would be the answer to his prayers? Sad sack. 

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1 minute ago, Rt66vintage said:

And why is she not slightly embarrassed by his current ill-fitting clothing? Obviously it's old and from a skinnier time. I wish she'd spend a few American bucks on a pair of jeans and a couple of XXL shirts for the love of her life. 

Come now, Rt66vintage (may I call you Rt66?).  In order for Rebecca to recognize that Zeid's clothes are too tight, she'd have to develop the ability to discern "too tight" as a concept applied to clothing.  Look at this lady's own attire--do you really think she understands that clothes come in different sizes?

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On 10/7/2019 at 12:32 AM, magemaud said:

she's worn those jeans with a leather jacket the entire time, only changing her tops, except when Zied made her wear the Tunisian ceremonial clothing

She wore that OVER her other clothes (sans faux motojacket).

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On 10/7/2019 at 10:36 AM, BallisticNikki said:

She threw a pitcher of water on him when she found out he'd dated another woman from Colombia!

Threw a glass of beer at him when she found out he was texting currently (as in that day or the night before) with a former live in girlfriend who was also a Colombiana who was IN Columbia, who'd he apparently never talked to her about before. I mean, that IS a little sketch to have spent a considerable amount of time in the same country previously but never mention it to your girlfriend because then you'd have to fess up that she was not your first attempt at a mail order bride.

On 10/7/2019 at 10:58 AM, mamadrama said:
On 10/7/2019 at 12:33 AM, Racj82 said:

Yeah, can't agree in that one. Speaking as a straight male and after having shown her to others, that's not what we are seeing. Her body may be the main attraction I guess but unattractive she is not imo.

My 12yo son, husband, and I find her equally attractive.

My 21 year old son finds her, and I quote, "hot as fuck."

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16 hours ago, RealReality said:
21 hours ago, Archer27 said:

Angela is THE worst cast member of this whole franchise. During her repugnant tirade, I was cheering for Mykull's friends...and hoping his hot friend from last season would show up. I cannot recall his name. As for Akini, her pictures we saw in their first episode looked like modelling photos. She looked stunning. Now, well...

That whole scene was weird.  Did she somehow think that they were just going to silently listen to her and be chastised by this angry white woman?  Michael should be mortified and embarrassed.  I sure hope America is worth your balls my Nigerian friend. 

I think we had some discussions about this the last go-round, but I imagine that this is pretty much how Angela interacts with black men at home. What young black man in small town Georgia is going to gainsay an obnoxious white woman on a rant? I think she absolutely did expect them to listen to her tirade, and even though they basically scoffed at her nonsense and left she probably thinks the fact that they left is indicative of her winning something - Michael, the argument, her dignity. Who knows.

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4 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:
21 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

Just a thought, but couldn't he wait 7 more years or whatever until the girl is 18?

Isn't that what some single parents do so as not to impact the kid and cause havoc with the stresses and strains?

What??? Why? She's not even his child? And her mother didn't wait.

Not my choices, but Tim said has he's known the girl since she was 1.5yo and he was standing in as her father.  Veronica is married?  I did not know that, but actually doubt it.  She's got fake-Daddy TIm providing moral and I bet $ support.  I was just offering a policy that some single parents take to save their dating drama (and impact re a replacement parent) til their charge is 18.

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3 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:

I don't necessarily think he's GAY but he doesn't desire these women like an average hetero guy would.

And he could just be asexual and feel no sexual attraction either way, but still wants a beautiful partner and a family. 

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39 minutes ago, Mothra said:

Come now, Rt66vintage (may I call you Rt66?).  In order for Rebecca to recognize that Zeid's clothes are too tight, she'd have to develop the ability to discern "too tight" as a concept applied to clothing.  Look at this lady's own attire--do you really think she understands that clothes come in different sizes?

@Mothra, many people do not connect rt66 to Route 66, so I'm usually called "vintage," lol. It's my Ebay name selling vintage clothing, etc. and living in the vicinity of the revered roadway. Thank you for asking. ❤

As for Rebecca, she obviously puts a lot of importance on looks, at least in her pictures,  amiright? She prefers a bad girl image what with her tattoos, black eyeliner/shadow & leather jacket. Yes, and her so sexy low-cut, ill-fitting blouse and tight jeans.

So she picked an overweight, unemployed, greasy manchild in a leather jacket to squire her around the middle east. And be on television with her!

I'm surprised she's not somewhat uncomfortable with his outward appearance, and maybe suggest a shopping trip (and a haircut). Come on, smile, Rebecca. 

She has come across as a mom-boss many times, but also sometimes fearful (insert twisted lip here) of Zied, so idk what's up with her. Another 90-day American woman who's totally self-centered, ignorant and unaware. 

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1 hour ago, Drogo said:

In case you missed the episode, here's a quick visual recap: 

ANGELA:
giphy.gif

MICHAEL:
giphy.gif

TIM:
giphy.gif

JENIFFER:
giphy.gif

AVERY:
giphy.gif

OMAR:
giphy.gif

BENJAMIN:  
giphy.gif

AKINYI: 
giphy.gif

REBECCA: 
giphy.gif

ZIED:
giphy.gif

“Baby, I so much am love you.”  $500 from you so much I need now my need sister for”.  

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53 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

Threw a glass of beer at him when she found out he was texting currently (as in that day or the night before) with a former live in girlfriend who was also a Colombiana who was IN Columbia, who'd he apparently never talked to her about before. I mean, that IS a little sketch to have spent a considerable amount of time in the same country previously but never mention it to your girlfriend because then you'd have to fess up that she was not your first attempt at a mail order bride.

My 21 year old son finds her, and I quote, "hot as fuck."

Ha ha, despite the fact that I am married to the whitest, blondest, man I know, I apparently have a thing for dark complected women who ride the line between trashy and sexy. Interesting thing to have discovered this late in life. 

14 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

And he could just be asexual and feel no sexual attraction either way, but still wants a beautiful partner and a family. 

I think it's similar to how he views his guns. In the first episode he was showing off his bedazzled guns and saying that "nobody's shooting these." (Foreshadowing how, later on, he wouldn't be shooting anything either.) He may just like nice, pretty things but prefers to admire them from afar than to actually using them. 

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4 hours ago, Mothra said:

He does look like a dandy, but I'm familiar only with historical types like Beau Brummell, whose sexuality is not clear to me, so that label doesn't help me much.

But when I think "dandy" I think trendy, high style, cutting edge. I think the best quality. I think someone who stands out and creates a statement. I'd venture to say Tim wants very badly to be a dandy, but he fails pretty spectacularly. I could never envision a dandy wearing a baseball cap. And he always looks grubby. He gets manicures but his nails are grungy. A dandy pays attention to detail. Like this guy: https://pictorial.jezebel.com/allow-this-man-who-lives-every-day-as-a-regency-dandy-t-1835907485

PRI_71882265.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Maybe Tim and Aladdin need to “hang out”. 

Netflix and chill?

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30 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Netflix and chill?

Usually gym rats like other gym rats.  Tim looks like he could be knocked over by a breeze.

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I thought it strange when his back home Veronica? asked Jeniffer how's your sex life in so many words.  I'm thinking she didn't really care how it was just wanted to know if there is one???

I forget now but what does Tim do back home?  Seems he has money.  That's probably Veronica's big attraction being a single lady with a child. 

A gay man or couple make the very best neighbors and friends.  They know everything cool!

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19 hours ago, RealReality said:

That whole scene was weird.  Did she somehow think that they were just going to silently listen to her and be chastised by this angry white woman? 

Those guy pals are very gentlemanly, classy, and obviously think straight. I would love to hang out with them! They must really like Michael to put up with that.

6 hours ago, queenbee24 said:

Which brings me back to- WHAT THE HECK IS HIS DEAL? He can do so much better than Laura!

The only sensible explanation is that he is gay. To put on that elaborate a wedding, his family must have considerable wealth and probably know he's gay and support his escape west. I am guessing he'll get a green card, pay off Laura for her trouble, and explore greener pastures in the US. If he hooked up with a more obviously compatible woman, he's have been more...on the hook. He knows he can't knock her up so he's safe there.

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I think Michael's friends got a free dinner and drinks or a paycheck for their appearance on the show.  That was what baited them in for that little love fest with Angela and Michael.  Uggg.

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2 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

But when I think "dandy" I think trendy, high style, cutting edge. I think the best quality. I think someone who stands out and creates a statement. I'd venture to say Tim wants very badly to be a dandy, but he fails pretty spectacularly. I could never envision a dandy wearing a baseball cap. And he always looks grubby. He gets manicures but his nails are grungy. A dandy pays attention to detail. Like this guy: https://pictorial.jezebel.com/allow-this-man-who-lives-every-day-as-a-regency-dandy-t-1835907485

Wow.

I was not aware of present-day dandies until I read a post here describing them (and my son thinks I'm wasting time on the computer!).  I know something about Beau Brummell but nobody later than that, so I'm happy to have any definition you can offer me for present-day dandies.

Historically, as I understand it, dandyism, whatever its origins as a fashion movement with obsessive dictates about the details of dress right down to the last inked-on beauty mark (digression:  while I was in college, I wore beauty marks that were adhesive-backed black satin or velvet [the satin ones were better--the velvet ones looked hairy].  I ordered them from an old-fashioned pharmacy, and they came in various sizes of round spots, hearts, stars--even camels.  I sometimes wore them on my decolletage.  I was not fashion-forward, just odd).  The thing is, dandyism was picked up by gay men of the time--think Oscar Wilde--and even is referred to in "Yankee Doodle"--Yankee Doodle Dandy.  "Macaroni" refers to the twirling finger movement some people used to refer to homosexuality much as today some people use the "limp wrist" movement.

I am really uncomfortable considering that Tim might be gay, and for me associating him with dandyism is part of that discomfort.  If he is gay, it is heart-breaking to consider how hard he has to work to conceal, and how lonely he must feel.

Tim's wearing a baseball cap (backwards, yet) and the trendy half-shave (how do they do that?) leaving a day's stubble *every day*, are not fashion-forward.  And as you point out, for a guy who pays such meticulous attention to grooming, he sure looks grubby.  Is that intentional?  Is this the bullied little kid trying to fit in?  It might well be.

There's a real tension here, isn't there?  I agree that he has dandyish desires; I think his attraction to stylish women is more evidence for that.  I think he wants to look polished and "of the best quality"--you can see that in that one photo of him with the unnamed ex-girlfriend.  At the same time, I think he wants to be seen as one of the guys (maybe to camouflage himself as protection from bullies).

The killer is that we're never going to know what the story is with Tim.  Maybe he's just an extremely odd duck, and how unsatisfying that would be.

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3 minutes ago, Mothra said:

Wow.

I was not aware of present-day dandies until I read a post here describing them (and my son thinks I'm wasting time on the computer!).  I know something about Beau Brummell but nobody later than that, so I'm happy to have any definition you can offer me for present-day dandies.

Historically, as I understand it, dandyism, whatever its origins as a fashion movement with obsessive dictates about the details of dress right down to the last inked-on beauty mark (digression:  while I was in college, I wore beauty marks that were adhesive-backed black satin or velvet [the satin ones were better--the velvet ones looked hairy].  I ordered them from an old-fashioned pharmacy, and they came in various sizes of round spots, hearts, stars--even camels.  I sometimes wore them on my decolletage.  I was not fashion-forward, just odd).  The thing is, dandyism was picked up by gay men of the time--think Oscar Wilde--and even is referred to in "Yankee Doodle"--Yankee Doodle Dandy.  "Macaroni" refers to the twirling finger movement some people used to refer to homosexuality much as today some people use the "limp wrist" movement.

I am really uncomfortable considering that Tim might be gay, and for me associating him with dandyism is part of that discomfort.  If he is gay, it is heart-breaking to consider how hard he has to work to conceal, and how lonely he must feel.

Tim's wearing a baseball cap (backwards, yet) and the trendy half-shave (how do they do that?) leaving a day's stubble *every day*, are not fashion-forward.  And as you point out, for a guy who pays such meticulous attention to grooming, he sure looks grubby.  Is that intentional?  Is this the bullied little kid trying to fit in?  It might well be.

There's a real tension here, isn't there?  I agree that he has dandyish desires; I think his attraction to stylish women is more evidence for that.  I think he wants to look polished and "of the best quality"--you can see that in that one photo of him with the unnamed ex-girlfriend.  At the same time, I think he wants to be seen as one of the guys (maybe to camouflage himself as protection from bullies).

The killer is that we're never going to know what the story is with Tim.  Maybe he's just an extremely odd duck, and how unsatisfying that would be.

The story/documentary I watched on modern day dandies didn't make them seem gay per se.  They wore colorful suits and were meticulous about how they dressed.  They pranced about town, but it wasn't really gay.  

I think the day old stubble, the bedazzled jeans, the backwards cap, manicured brows and nails are all part of a studied effort at an effortless style that reminds me of those dandy's. 

Their look wasn't at all about being gay....though I understand and can appreciate the historical context and argument.  I think being a modern day dandy isn't about being gay per se.  And it's an interesting thing to consider what we wear says about our sexuality.  Some straight men wear drag, I'm sure the first women who wore pants were probably seen as masculine or lesbian.

Either way, for me, calling Tim a modern day dandy isn't about calling him gay.  I don't think he is gay.  I think he may be a guy who is more like Russ......who likes having his balls stepped all over by a much stronger woman.  

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3 minutes ago, RealReality said:

The story/documentary I watched on modern day dandies didn't make them seem gay per se.  They wore colorful suits and were meticulous about how they dressed.  They pranced about town, but it wasn't really gay.  

I think the day old stubble, the bedazzled jeans, the backwards cap, manicured brows and nails are all part of a studied effort at an effortless style that reminds me of those dandy's. 

You know what just occurred to me?  Those Jersey Shore guys on MTV?  I can't remember what their show was called, but they were meticulous yet ferociously hetero--and that show about John Gotti's daughter--they showed how her sons spent an hour just getting their hair gel right.  Any suggestion that hyper-male guys like that might be gay would find you at the bottom of the bay in a pair of cement overshoes.

Maybe they are a variety of dandy?  They took a lot of time to coordinate their clothing, worked hard at tweezing, cultivated their nails and gelled like hell.  Yet they too looked grubby.  Maybe for them the grubbiness is the no-we're-not-gay marker.

Is the historically-influenced clothing like that in the photo PM posted part of the dandies you know about?  What kind of clothes do they wear?  The Jersey Shore guys wore those sleeveless t-shirts and backward baseball caps (and strange shorts/not shorts) Tim affects.

12 minutes ago, RealReality said:

And it's an interesting thing to consider what we wear says about our sexuality.  Some straight men wear drag, I'm sure the first women who wore pants were probably seen as masculine or lesbian.

There was a marvelous historian of clothing--can you imagine?--named Anne Hollander who wrote a book I love:  Seeing Through Clothes.  She studied how the shape of clothing as portrayed in paintings and sculptures suggested what bodies looked like--or were supposed to look like--through the ages.  The medieval paintings with the tiny high apple breasts and swollen bellies--what's going on with that?  And we know that human bodies have been pretty much the same since we started making art, so how clothing is shown demonstrates ideal bodies without having to "confess" that the real body underneath doesn't really look like that.  Wonderful book.

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