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S01.E03: 3 Stars

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After a high-strung theater producer's behavior turns from demanding to what is believed to be demonic, Kristen, David and Ben are called in to assess the situation. Kristen discredits Townsend before he can ruin a 17-year-old boy's life.

Airing Thursday, October 10, 2019.

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So do we know why David keeps hallucinating Townshend?

Thumbs up for the Warren Zevon though. Great song.

Agree with whoever said Kristen is dull as dirt.

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I’m still trying to figure out what Kristen brings to the table. I get she was/is an expert witness, but that was before she got hooked up with David. What is the valuable gift that she brings to figuring out if the devil is involved in something? I’ve not really seen her do anything, not like Ben who handles the tech issues.

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31 minutes ago, SamBeckett said:

I’m still trying to figure out what Kristen brings to the table. I get she was/is an expert witness, but that was before she got hooked up with David. What is the valuable gift that she brings to figuring out if the devil is involved in something? I’ve not really seen her do anything, not like Ben who handles the tech issues.

I think she is supposed to be the psychology expert, so she is supposed to help them figure out if someone is really possessed by the devil or if they are just mentally ill.

Edited by absolutelyido
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This show is kinda losing me. Honestly I'm just here for Ben, and now I wanna know what's up with Karima and her baby.

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Okay, why did John Glover jump off the building? I know he saw a message but...

At least there were no shrieking kids.

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35 minutes ago, Izzy85 said:

This show is kinda losing me. Honestly I'm just here for Ben, and now I wanna know what's up with Karima and her baby.

I figured that she must have had a kid out of wedlock that brother Ben doesn't know about. But the show glossed over the explanation of blue tooth/Alexa. Shrug. 

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Two things that maybe I shouldn’t be worried about at this point.

1) That dude killed himself. Was he possessed after all? Will the lead characters feel anything? But I have a feeling this will be the last we hear of it. That seems a little extreme, especially since Kristen admired his work. 
2) I don’t quite know what Ben did to help Kristen out with the recording, but when they were talking about it Ben mentioned the “ethical issues.” First of all, Ben doesn’t know Kristen all that well. But I think he knew she’d be using the tape in court (or, at least, regarding a legal issue.) I think he was putting his ass on the line. Unless, the philosophy is that it’s okay to cheat for the greater good. That doesn’t sound so religious to me.

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9 hours ago, janeta said:

Agree with whoever said Kristen is dull as dirt.

That was me.  Kristen has a horrible time expressing emotion.   She wasn't nearly as angry as she should have been when that minor was most likely going to get sent to prison as an adult.  And when that dude talked about that kid getting raped for a second time, that really should have set her off.   That is especially the case since she has four kids.  Her motherly instincts should have really kicked in.

That dude was also pretty much threatening Kristen's family and she did nothing.   She didn't go to the police, she didn't scream at him, she didn't hit him.

Edited by icemiser69
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I for one enjoyed the hell out of this episode... It pushed the needle a little further towards unexplainable stuff... The virtual assistant hack.. That seemed to have been taken over somehow... Which I believe caused the guy to kill himself.. And of course whatever is going on with Karina... I peeped that the three places those dots showed are NYC... Chicago and D.C all places the Kings have based their TV shows... What it means to the larger mystery who knows... Townsend is horrible... I mean to just throw out child rape so casually... But now the show has me wondering... Was it a signal jammer.. Or demonic stuff that kept us from hearing him on tape... Hmmm

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9 hours ago, SamBeckett said:

I’m still trying to figure out what Kristen brings to the table. I get she was/is an expert witness, but that was before she got hooked up with David. What is the valuable gift that she brings to figuring out if the devil is involved in something? I’ve not really seen her do anything, not like Ben who handles the tech issues.

She brings nothing to the table.  She doesn't come off as the least bit authoritative.  She is  a driver seat character sitting in the back seat.   Just along for the ride.

8 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

I think she is supposed to be the psychology expert, so she is supposed to help them figure out if someone is really possessed by the devil or if they are just mentally ill.

Perhaps that is her role, but she really hasn't taken command of it.  

8 hours ago, Izzy85 said:

This show is kinda losing me. Honestly I'm just here for Ben, and now I wanna know what's up with Karima and her baby.

The voices that are supposed to be creepy aren't coming off as a creepy, they are coming off as cheezy.

The antagonist doesn't come off as the least bit threatening.  Perhaps he would be a little scarier if Kristen acted as if she was afraid of him. 

Edited by icemiser69
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32 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

I for one enjoyed the hell out of this episode... It pushed the needle a little further towards unexplainable stuff... The virtual assistant hack.. That seemed to have been taken over somehow... Which I believe caused the guy to kill himself.. And of course whatever is going on with Karina... I peeped that the three places those dots showed are NYC... Chicago and D.C all places the Kings have based their TV shows... What it means to the larger mystery who knows... Townsend is horrible... I mean to just throw out child rape so casually... But now the show has me wondering... Was it a signal jammer.. Or demonic stuff that kept us from hearing him on tape... Hmmm

One of those dots was South Bend, Indiana.   That is where Notre Dame is located.  St. Patrick's Cathedral is located in New York City.

I think the three locations are where  notable Catholic churches and Catholic institutions are located.  They have nothing to do with places the Kings have based their television shows.

Edited by icemiser69
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1 hour ago, SamBeckett said:

2) I don’t quite know what Ben did to help Kristen out with the recording, but when they were talking about it Ben mentioned the “ethical issues.” First of all, Ben doesn’t know Kristen all that well. But I think he knew she’d be using the tape in court (or, at least, regarding a legal issue.) I think he was putting his ass on the line. Unless, the philosophy is that it’s okay to cheat for the greater good. That doesn’t sound so religious to me.

It sounds very much "eye for an eye" to me.

Above and beyond that, Kristen doesn't believe in God.   Any problems she would have with having the recording doctored, would be an ethical one, not a morally religious one. 

Edited by icemiser69
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Kristen is a psychology expert.  The same way she would determine if a killer is insane she is being used to determine what psychiatric problem a person actually has.   She was the one who figured out what mean boss guy was actually doing before Evil Alexa got involved.

Speaking of which am I the only one who is now afraid of my Alexa?  

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

One of those dots was South Bend, Indiana.   That is where Notre Dame is located.  St. Patrick's Cathedral is located in New York City.

I think the three locations are where  notable Catholic churches and Catholic institutions are located.  They have nothing to do with places the Kings have based their television shows.

That's not what I saw... I'll have to rewatched.. My initial viewing ibsaw David line up one dot.. Which was NY... And then turn the image.. And I saw Chicago and DC 

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58 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

That's not what I saw... I'll have to rewatched.. My initial viewing ibsaw David line up one dot.. Which was NY... And then turn the image.. And I saw Chicago and DC 

I saw NYC, Chicago, and DC as well. 

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2 hours ago, SamBeckett said:

Two things that maybe I shouldn’t be worried about at this point.

1) That dude killed himself. Was he possessed after all? Will the lead characters feel anything? But I have a feeling this will be the last we hear of it. That seems a little extreme, especially since Kristen admired his work. 
2) I don’t quite know what Ben did to help Kristen out with the recording, but when they were talking about it Ben mentioned the “ethical issues.” First of all, Ben doesn’t know Kristen all that well. But I think he knew she’d be using the tape in court (or, at least, regarding a legal issue.) I think he was putting his ass on the line. Unless, the philosophy is that it’s okay to cheat for the greater good. That doesn’t sound so religious to me.

On number 2, I think that was the point of her quoting Shakespeare at the end, "To do good you have to do a little bad." 

And she has made the point in the show that she doesn't believe "that stuff" - I guess they can't have her come out and say she's an atheist, they are softballing it, but I think part of the point of her being part of this trio is that she won't be bogged down by religious concerns and prejudices. The trio is a Catholic, a Muslim (practicing or not, seems vague), and a non-believer.

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I saw Boston/DC/Chicago also. I guess it was divine intervention that the map scale was just right for those points to line up. 

I also hope I am never part of a preliminary hearing. Apparently laws like HIPPA and receiving stolen goods are null and void. There is no way a judge would allow testimony based on stolen medical records to be admissible. The defense attorney was certainly negligent in not asking about Townsend’s involvement in suborning perjury in the case from the pilot. Also, there is no way a recording of unknown provenance would be allowed. This shows legal advisors are even worse than the medical ones. 

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The way they played the suicide scene was chilling. The fact he was out of focus and  you just knew that was going to happen, wow. 

Although given that, I really don't understand this show and what they are trying to do with it. 

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5 minutes ago, Eliza422 said:

The way they played the suicide scene was chilling. The fact he was out of focus and  you just knew that was going to happen, wow. 

Although given that, I really don't understand this show and what they are trying to do with it. 

Yeah the suicide was pretty obvious but doesn’t make much sense why. I mean why not call back the God squad to do more investigation 

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14 minutes ago, Dbolt said:

Yeah the suicide was pretty obvious but doesn’t make much sense why. I mean why not call back the God squad to do more investigation 

The whole story line with the producer guy almost felt irrelevant in the end. I was surprised that right before he got the text and then jumped I was like that's it? It's a hacker and he's now 100% fine? It was very disjointed and felt unfinished. 

I think they want to do a lot with this show, but it's all too much too soon.

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3 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I peeped that the three places those dots showed are NYC... Chicago and D.C all places the Kings have based their TV shows...

2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

That's not what I saw... I'll have to rewatched.. My initial viewing ibsaw David line up one dot.. Which was NY... And then turn the image.. And I saw Chicago and DC 

1 hour ago, Eliza422 said:

I saw NYC, Chicago, and DC as well. 

No need to rewatch, I will take your words for it.  I trust you.   I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong.   It just seems kind of lame, because I saw the huge words "South Bend", Indiana, and I just assumed there was a Catholic church/institution religious component to all of this since they are employed by the church.

Edited by icemiser69
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1 hour ago, Dbolt said:

I saw Boston/DC/Chicago also. I guess it was divine intervention that the map scale was just right for those points to line up. 

I also hope I am never part of a preliminary hearing. Apparently laws like HIPPA and receiving stolen goods are null and void. There is no way a judge would allow testimony based on stolen medical records to be admissible. The defense attorney was certainly negligent in not asking about Townsend’s involvement in suborning perjury in the case from the pilot. Also, there is no way a recording of unknown provenance would be allowed. This shows legal advisors are even worse than the medical ones. 

The writing in this series definitely has issues when it comes to courtroom procedures.

Edited by icemiser69
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At this point, I'd like the show to concentrate on Ben and his sister. They're funny and natural-acting. 

I'm tired of the show trying to sell me on the alleged sexual attraction of Kristen/David, which I find laughable. Having demon Townsend try to incite David to sinful lust by saying words like 'nipple' was even sillier.

Re. the locations on the map, I was hoping one of the locations would be-oh-Muncie, Indiana or something. Funny how absolutely nothing in TV World ever happens except the coasts and Chicago.

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30 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

At this point, I'd like the show to concentrate on Ben and his sister. They're funny and natural-acting. 

I'm tired of the show trying to sell me on the alleged sexual attraction of Kristen/David, which I find laughable. Having demon Townsend try to incite David to sinful lust by saying words like 'nipple' was even sillier.

Re. the locations on the map, I was hoping one of the locations would be-oh-Muncie, Indiana or something. Funny how absolutely nothing in TV World ever happens except the coasts and Chicago.

As much as I love Michael Emerson, even in evil-mode he doesn't really inspire a lot of lust!

Chicago seems to be the only city the entertainment industry acknowledges exists in "flyover country", unless they need spooky environs and they suddenly remember New Orleans exists. The rest of the middle of the country is just a place people "escape from" to move to LA or NYC.

Edited by Eliza422
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6 hours ago, SamBeckett said:

2) I don’t quite know what Ben did to help Kristen out with the recording, but when they were talking about it Ben mentioned the “ethical issues.” First of all, Ben doesn’t know Kristen all that well. But I think he knew she’d be using the tape in court (or, at least, regarding a legal issue.) I think he was putting his ass on the line. Unless, the philosophy is that it’s okay to cheat for the greater good. That doesn’t sound so religious to me.

It is something called a "Deep Fake", it is mostly applied to video were you create a fake video so good that only a video expert can tell it is not real. For laughs, people substitute one celebrity's face for another in a well known situation, like giving an Oscar acceptance speech, so that people clearly know it is a fake and can appreciate the skill required to make the scene look believable. Matching the facial movements and syncing the mouth movements to what is spoken. Ben is only faking Townsend's voice to recreate the conversation Townsend and Kristen had. I guess it was impressive since Ben only had one sentence of Townsend's to use as a template. 

1 hour ago, Eliza422 said:

As much as I love Michael Emerson, even in evil-mode he doesn't really inspire a lot of lust!

I think I would be deeply impressed if Michael Emerson started spouting nothing but "Dirty Limericks" in David's presence. "There once was a man from Nantucket."

For the record I saw: NYC, Chicago, and DC

Since there wasn't a lot to comment on in this episode, I thought I would provide you with a transcript of the 6 types of possession scene since I think it is the basis of the show. Maybe someone can take a guess at how many of the 6 types we saw in this episode and where. Something tells me we hit on quite a few of them this episode if all the instances were real demonic possessions.

David: There are six types of possession.

First is Demonic Possession. It's when a demon takes over a person's body without their consent. It's what you see in most movies. It involves speaking in tongues, sudden personality changes, sudden violence,even superhuman strength.

The next type of possession is Physical Pain. This is a sickness or an injury due to a demon being inside a person. It doesn't impact the soul, just the body. 

The third is Diabolic Oppression. This is when a demon torments a person, causing tragic events in their lives... the loss of a loved one, the loss of a job, a home. Basically, the story of Job.

The fourth type of possession is Diabolical Infestation. It's when demonic entities
take over a house, an object, even an animal.

Fifth is Diabolical Subjugation. It's when the possessed invites the demon into their lives. They do this through game play (video image showed children playing with an Ouija board) or pledging their soul to the devil.

Kristen: That's a real thing? People pledging their souls?

David: It's real in that if a human wants power, they can trade away their future for that power.

Kristen: Oh, so you mean it as metaphor?

David: No, I think a lot of what we consider metaphor is real. Are you texting?

Kristen: No, I'm taking notes. Um, and the last kind of possession?

David: That's why we're here. The monsignor wants us to look into a case of Diabolical Obsession. It's when a person has constant, overwhelming and irrational thoughts, making them act in perverse ways. It's hard to detect because it's the most highly functional of all the possessions. But it can lead to suicidal ideation. And murder.

Kristen: I mean, couldn't all these conditions have a psychological explanation? 

David: Sure. That's why you're here.

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4 hours ago, sempervivum said:

At this point, I'd like the show to concentrate on Ben and his sister. They're funny and natural-acting. 

Agreed. I really like them, too :). 

Quote

I'm tired of the show trying to sell me on the alleged sexual attraction of Kristen/David, which I find laughable. Having demon Townsend try to incite David to sinful lust by saying words like 'nipple' was even sillier.

Seriously, what is the deal with all of that? I get the bit about taunting David about his attraction to Kristen, but this is a truly bizarre way of doing that. I do like the moments when David and Kristen talk about their different beliefs (or lack thereof), though. I think those moments do a nice job of showing them bonding in a quiet, thoughtful way. 

@AnimeMania, thanks for the transcript. I found that part of the episode interesting, too. I didn't realize there were so many varieties of possession. 

6 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Speaking of which am I the only one who is now afraid of my Alexa?  

This episode made me glad I don't have one. I've always found those things kinda creepy. 

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David told that priest that he had had another “vision.” He omitted telling him that he was tripping on ‘shrooms at the time. 😏

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12 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

 But now the show has me wondering... Was it a signal jammer.. Or demonic stuff that kept us from hearing him on tape... Hmmm

Hmm, did he have a hand in his pocket? Because he would have had to have bee using it only when he spoke; didn’t her voice come through on the tape? I forget. 

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I am wondering if David is a sex addict. It is weird how Townsend is trying to distract him with lustful thoughts. He also mentioned that he went from person to person and never felt fulfilled in life. Maybe he even believes he suffered from a diabolical obsession with sex. Maybe his belief that he needed help to deal with his issues led him to religion. If he believes that he has a problem with sex, that could also explain why he is willing to commit to a profession that requires celibacy. He believes that abstinence is healthiest lifestyle for him. This show just seems to be paying a lot of attention to his sexuality, and something helped him find religion. 

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I thought that this was better than the last one, it did actually have some spooky moments, especially when John Glover walked off the roof in the background while his assistant was saying how great he was doing. So it was both the IT guy AND possibly an actual demon who just liked the idea and grabbed on? Plus whatever is going on with Ben and his sister, was it an unrelated hack, or something else? I get what the show is going for, trying to show mundane human evil as well as playing with the idea of demonic or supernatural evil, and being kind of ambiguous about what is what, but you can do that and still confirm some actual supernatural stuff to add to the suspense. If there is a logical explanation behind everything, then its not super spooky, its just another procedural. You can do episodes with a mundane explanation (even the X-Files had a few of those) but we need a few spooky things too!

John Glover is always great, and its kind of funny that the most emotion that Kristin has shown was when she started fangirling the producer and got really excited about getting tickets. I get why Kristin is here, she figures out if someone is mentally ill instead of possessed, and she figured out that the producer was talking to his angry self and not a demon, but the lady needs to show more emotions! I mean, this guy just threw out how he wants to have a child raped in prison, then threatened your daughters! I would say you could be pissed now!

I love the idea of a demon speaking to someone through Alexa, thats just the kind of creepy ridiculousness I was promised, even if it was just some dweeb...at first maybe.

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Pfft, a millennial wouldn't know to put two spaces after a period.

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7 minutes ago, Zoe said:

Pfft, a millennial wouldn't know to put two spaces after a period.

Yeah, that took me out of it for a moment, too. Would have made more sense if the guy had been insisting on the two spaces, and no one was putting them in.

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21 minutes ago, Zoe said:

Pfft, a millennial wouldn't know to put two spaces after a period.

Maybe, they were home schooled?

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On 10/11/2019 at 1:32 AM, LittleIggy said:

Okay, why did John Glover jump off the building? I know he saw a message but...

My take on it is that he realized he couldn't get out of the deal he made with the devil. But by killing himself he would be, after all, going to the very place he was dreading.

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2 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Yeah, that took me out of it for a moment, too. Would have made more sense if the guy had been insisting on the two spaces, and no one was putting them in.

I know, right? I always put two spaces after a period. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 10:33 AM, Dbolt said:

Yeah the suicide was pretty obvious but doesn’t make much sense why. I mean why not call back the God squad to do more investigation 

It may not have been real, but he thought he sold his soul to get a Tony.  I think.  Or something. So, he clearly had issues.  And I don't mean that he believed that a demon is real. I mean that he thinks something so ephermal is worth his soul.  I'm a little unsure of the timeline.  Does he have a Tony yet?  Because he might just have killed himself because he now didn't think he was going to win one.

2 hours ago, Zoe said:

Pfft, a millennial wouldn't know to put two spaces after a period.

I know. That was what I was thinking. I'm old and it took me months to break the habit. But, Millenials and younger would have learned one space from the jump.

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Kristan is a skeptic and that's what the Church demands in it's investigations.  This show has a lot of potential if it stays more serious and less fantasy.1

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I thought this episode was much better and gave me hope that the show could turn into a very intriguing look at EVIL. I hope they continue to write more complex story lines that keep us guessing.  And I hope they return back to this story line to follow up.  

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Kristen, "Here's what I don't get. You want to be a priest, but what about the scandals?" 

David, "Yeah, that's bad."

"And what about the way they they treat homosexuals?"

"Oh yeah, that's bad, too. But I, like, enjoy the community, so it's all good."

How absurd was that? I get that you have to hang a lantern on this stuff nowadays, but you can't just bring it up and not have him give a real reason for it, right?

Edited by Brian Cronin
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17 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

"And what about their views on homosexuality?"

"Oh yeah, that's bad, too. But I, like, enjoy the community, so it's all good."

How absurd was that? I get that you have to hang a lantern on this stuff nowadays, but you can't just bring it up and not have him give a real reason for it, right?

Small, but in my opinion important, difference.  I believe she said "and they way they treat homosexuals."  Not their views on it.

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14 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Small, but in my opinion important, difference.  I believe she said "and they way they treat homosexuals."  Not their views on it.

Sure, if that's what she said, it's best to be accurate. I'll fix that.

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So are hearings just the Wild West of the legal system where just literally everything goes and laws don’t exist? You can just change everything about a case because you have stolen private documents about someone? And what’s in those private sealed documents can change a whole case? What now?

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On 10/12/2019 at 10:34 AM, tennisgurl said:

I mean, this guy just threw out how he wants to have a child raped in prison, then threatened your daughters! I would say you could be pissed now!

She was there to record him revealing how evil he was. She didn't need to show him how upsetting his comments are. And frankly I would think any distress she might feel would be tempered by triumph that she should now have the evidence to stop him (since she wouldn't yet know the recording failed).

I like Kristen and I don't find her dull or unemotional. She's often self-contained but she speaks up for herself regularly. 

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Yeah the court stuff is getting ridiculous. The Kings should know better with their history.

Townsend taunting David- I think it is actually David's thoughts, that's what would make it effective. Like when you're trying not to think about the word elephant all you can think is the word elephant. Or nipple as the case may be. I assume David is trying to suppress his own thoughts and feelings and Townsend is taunting him with them.

I don't see much chemistry between David and Kristen though.

ETA 2 spaces after a period is craziness. 

Edited by cleo
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She was told the deep fake was unethical...but went ahead with it because she thought it was worth it to bring down the evil guy and protect her daughters. That's a strong indicator of character for Kristen.

(And yet, when he was on the stand and talking about her medical records, no one said to Evil Guy: isn't it unethical, not to mention illegal, to discuss someone else's medical records without permission? And as mentioned in another thread, WHY hasn't he been arrested for this? Is it the faux Illuminati protecting him?)

That said, the personal assistant was a great way to unnerve viewers. Last night, my Alexa suddenly asked me if I would like to teach it what my voice sounds like.

And John Glover is awesome...nice to see Dasha Polanco, too. And dude, a Tony is not worth your soul! If you stick around long enough, they give you an honorary one. The sweating blood/hairplugs reveal was also a good one. 

I've mentioned before they do a lot of exteriors in my neighborhood, and the house Ben lives in with his sister is on a block that has several beautifully maintained Victorian cottage-style houses. It's about a block away from a very old church (St. George's, ca 1830s) and I bet the location team has that one in its files!

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My first reaction to a guy suddenly behaving that weirdly would be to assure that he first got a thorough physical examination to see if there was some medical condition triggering those behaviors. Then you go for the psychiatric checkup. After that, well......

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I've only just caught up on episodes 3 & 4.

On 10/14/2019 at 9:30 AM, SomeTameGazelle said:

She was there to record him revealing how evil he was. She didn't need to show him how upsetting his comments are. And frankly I would think any distress she might feel would be tempered by triumph that she should now have the evidence to stop him (since she wouldn't yet know the recording failed).

Also, she's probably been threatened before due to the nature of her work. Maintaining a neutral expression in response to provocation is part of her skillset.

I agree that the court scenes were unbelievable. I don't understand why Townsend's theft of the psychiatrist's notes haven't been reported. Wouldn't that be enough for him to be fired?

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