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Doctor Who in the Media

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You can make adjustments on a decision arrived at through business and/or creative motives, as in "ok, New Coke isn't working out, let's go back to Classic" or "the fans don't like Superman's new costume, let's go back to the old one", but you can't back down on a decision made from political ideology.

It is a culture war, and reversing a decision means handing a victory to the enemy, who are evil. 

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There is no way Season 11 is 30%z. To have that the characters would have to be speaking broken English and banging into walls while picking there nose.  I have personally rarely seen a movie I would give that low a rating to. It means it has noting of value.    At absolute worst I would give season 11 a 50% but would require a reason other than female Doctor.  Personally I give it a somewhere between 75 to  80% because it was a well written and fun season.  I liked the Doctor and her companions but the writing was a little flawed but nowhere flawed enough to fail the show. 

Edited by Chaos Theory
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35 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Like I said, it’s hard to gauge how good the series is because of the extremes involved. Maybe measure that and past seasons with the meridian? 🤷‍♂️

Exactly, this. 

I don’t know where I will rank 13 after her tenure has come to an end. Hell, I still don’t know how I rank the ones that come before. 

All I know is (striking speaking since the revival), I thought 11 has had the strongest debut season, and 12 had the weakest. 

9, I would rank just above 12’s first, but 9 is the odd one as that was his only season, so it is easily for 9 to get overshadowed compared to others who had multiple seasons. 

20 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

There is no way Season 11 is 30%z. That had the characters would have to be speaking broken English and banging into walls wiling picking there nose.

BRB. Laughing hysterically at the mental image this provided. 

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2 hours ago, ae2 said:

Critics love it because it catered to the zeitgeist. Read through a few of their reviews and you'll see they're almost exclusively praising the show for its so-called progressiveness rather than evaluating the story telling itself or the actual quality of the show.

Also worth noting that out of the 38 critic reviews attributing to its overall 94% rating, only 6 of those reviews (15%) were written after October 22, and 27 of them were written before episode 2 aired. In other words, they're not really rating the entire season.

That isn't to say the user reviews are fair evaluations either. The usual garbage is there. However, perusing them, many are more informed and provide better analysis than the critics' reviews. Here's a decent one that hits on some of the major problems with the season (all emphasis mine):

Is it just me or is everything just being repeated.  I would disagree with almost everything that you have highlighted although obviously there are people who agree with you as well as with me.  But I keep checking for anyone to say anything new about this and I can't find anything.  

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7 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

Is it just me or is everything just being repeated.  I would disagree with almost everything that you have highlighted although obviously there are people who agree with you as well as with me.  But I keep checking for anyone to say anything new about this and I can't find anything.  

I get the feeling like this is going to be like The Last Jedi, I end up wishing I could put half the time and energy into something I like as people do into something they don’t. 

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The BBC head programming guy said the show will return with Series 12 in “early 2020”. There also seem to be hints there will be a New Year’s special in 2020 before the actual season begins

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On 12/10/2018 at 5:16 PM, libgirl2 said:

Just because some of us were not thrilled with this season doesn't make us haters. I love this show. I have loved it since the early 80s when a out of sorts Freshman like me, who always like British TV, found her hero, The Doctor and joined an exclusive club of "we are so cool we watch Doctor Who", long before everyone jumped on the bandwagon in the reboot. I owned a long scarf. I have subscribed to Doctor Who magazine. I stayed way too late during pledge drives on a school night to see The Doctor "save the universe. I survived Ghostlight. I wept when they tried to reboot it with the TV movie! I wept when they did reboot it with one of my favorite actors. I listen to the audios ...... I think after 35+ years, I have the right to say I wasn't happy with this season. I have the right to say, I expect more from this show.  I love this show, I want to see it do well, I don't want it to fail. I worry about its future.  I don't consider myself a hater, nor am I happy in the slightest that it won't be back until 2020. My criticism is out of love than hate. 

Edited December 10 by libgirl2

Haven’t posted on this forum before and haven’t read all the posts in the forums. However, I agree 100% with you. My husband watched Doctor Who as a kid and he got me started on the reboot with CE. Since then, I have watched all the new shows consistently and have watched a majority of the original series.

I was so excited when they announced a female doctor and I think Jodie Whittaker is an awesome choice as the new doctor. Outside of the Rosa Parks episode which I thought was wonderful, the rest of the season has been dreadful to me and my husband. 

 

My my issue is with the new writers, not the actors. Shows used to be able to make political commentary subtle and integrated into a story line. This, however, was in your face politics and political correctness run amok with absolutely no nuance nor subtlety. Good TV shows, e.g., original Twilight Zones, made you go away and reflect on your perceptions and opinions. However, there is no subtlety in this new season, it is instead in your face “this is how you should think” and if you have a different point of view you are a horrible human being. This is not how you go about changing hearts or minds.

To be honest, my husband and I haven’t watched the show since the Archanids in the UK episode for two reasons: 1) it was an awful episode and 2) the pointed Political biases and jams at others (I watch TV shows to escape that crap). Oh, and a third thing, - how was the Doctor’s letting them starve to death more humane then putting them out of their misery immediately? (By the way, I’m a political centrist but I really don’t want anyone’s views jammed down my throat whether I agree with you or not).

My criticism is not out of hate but out of love also. 

Also, now it’s not politically correct to do a Christmas episode and as my husband said, “this offends me as a Jew”. 

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23 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

My my issue is with the new writers, not the actors. Shows used to be able to make political commentary subtle and integrated into a story line. This, however, was in your face politics and political correctness run amok with absolutely no nuance nor subtlety. Good TV shows, e.g., original Twilight Zones, made you go away and reflect on your perceptions and opinions. However, there is no subtlety in this new season, it is instead in your face “this is how you should think” and if you have a different point of view you are a horrible human being. This is not how you go about changing hearts or minds.

A thousand times "yes".  Chibnall clearly cares more about politics than writing a good story (I'll be charitable and assume his ideologuing is sincere as opposed to just ass-kissing the zeitgeist).  He doesn't seem to understand that it's possible to make people think and to teach them lessons without dropping anvils on them.

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13 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

A thousand times "yes".  Chibnall clearly cares more about politics than writing a good story (I'll be charitable and assume his ideologuing is sincere as opposed to just ass-kissing the zeitgeist).  He doesn't seem to understand that it's possible to make people think and to teach them lessons without dropping anvils on them.

Being overtly political is not going to do this show any favors but I don't think Chibnall cares.

Last night was the type of episode that the show needed though I'm not surprised that the ratings were down.  This has been a below average season.  But last night showed what they could be and hopefully with a year off, they'll come back stronger with their next season.

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4 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Resolution lost viewers--->https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6547721/Doctor-New-Years-special-loses-MASSIVE-1-5-million-viewers-rounding-major-ratings.html 

IMO not a highlight of the season which was mediocre but Jodie wasn't at fault, I love her, the writing is problematical. 

You can’t really compare a New Year special to a Christmas special that easily. Plus it needs to be seen as relative to the rest of the programming for the night, which was lowered ratings all around. It was the 4th most watched program of the night and I believe the 2nd most watched BBC program of the night, which sounds pretty good to me

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I liked it better on New Year's than xmas because I'm actually traveling and can't watch in the comfort of my home. 

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12 hours ago, benteen said:

Being overtly political is not going to do this show any favors but I don't think Chibnall cares.

The original Star Trek was massively political and on all the burning issues that were ripping country apart, the sci-fi aspect was how Rodenberry was able to address stuff like race (using aliens) rather than black and white people which would have flipped everyone out. Much of sci-fi has been highly political over the years. In my opinion, what really makes it undesirable on this Doctor Who season is how flippant the show generally is- basically a kids' show much of the time, but then they want to have a Rosa Parks episode as well. I have to be honest, I'm American and after about 5mins of that episode I couldnt watch it. Doctor Who is too silly to do a Rosa Parks episode, cant have your cake and eat it too. 

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To me it's not an issue about being political or not, it's how you do it.  Something can be political, even very political, and still be good, interesting writing.  And something can be political, even very political, and not be dropping supremely obvious and on-the-nose anvils all the time.  I wish to god Chibnall would learn that if he's going to be continuing to make Doctor Who his personal soapbox.

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I really just didn't see this overtly political bent to the series. Nothing that hadn't been consistent with the show history. 

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2 hours ago, ganesh said:

I really just didn't see this overtly political bent to the series. Nothing that hadn't been consistent with the show history. 

Me either. Doctor Who has always told political stories, for over 50 years. I didn't see anything unusual or out of place about this year's stories. It wasn't the strongest season ever, but neither was it the worst, and it was certainly no more or less political than this show has ever been. And I can pull receipts from the last 50-odd years on that, if need be.

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On 1/4/2019 at 8:12 PM, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Pull those receipts, enlighten us. 

Fine. We’ve had LGBT, black and working class companions, recurring and guest characters since season 1 of New Who. We’ve had multiple episodes that touched on the death penalty, slavery, the aftermath of slavery, reasons for war (that can be read as commentary on Afghanistan), the unseen victims of war, ableism, child soldiers, the dangers of technological advancements without human compassion, the balanced roles of religion and science, anti-capitalism, feminism, infertility, government control of media, trade unions and the rights of workers, PTSD and mental illness, animal rights, the effects of colonialism, the suppression of indigenous cultures, climate change, and so on. We saw the 12th Doctor specifically calling out racism as recently as last season.

Let's go back further into the Classic era. The Daleks were created by a writer who'd grown up during WWII, and were consciously based on the Nazis, with multiple Dalek adventures over a period of decades drawing deliberate parallels with Nazis and WWII. Other Classic adventures offer commentary on the Cold War, slavery, colonisation, the rights of indigenous peoples, scientific and technological advance without oversight, pacifism, weapons of mass destruction, capitalism, imperialism, trade unionism, and again I could go on - heck, the 7th Doctor has a whole three-part adventure battling against an autocratic ruler specifically modelled on the then prime minister Margaret Thatcher, who was felt by the production team to be far more terrifying than any monster the Doctor had encountered. The 4th Doctor had a four-part adventure that was written as a satire on the burdens of taxation!

But sure, this season was the first time the show has ever 'been political'. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms to make about this season, but 'Doctor Who has never been political before' is not one of them. Weak writing of political commentary isn't exactly a new thing for the show either - I haven't forgotten that Steven Moffat once wrote a gay couple whose only names were 'the fat one' and 'the thin one' and were written as cardboard cutout stereotypes with no deeper characterisation.

I've been watching Doctor Who since the early 80s and I can tell you that the current showrunner is always the worst ever in the history of the show. Doctor Who fans love their hyperbole.

Edited by Llywela
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Does Facebook count as Media?

The Doctor Who Facebook page has this video with two clips of The Doctor, the first has over it “Me on Janruary 1st” and is The Doctor giving a speech about how we’re capable of change.

the second clip has “Me by Janruary 6th” and the clip is The Doctor saying “I love biscuits!”

I just thought that was cute and funny. 

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Fine. We’ve had LGBT, black and working class companions, recurring and guest characters since season 1 of New Who. We’ve had multiple episodes that touched on the death penalty, slavery, the aftermath of slavery, reasons for war (that can be read as commentary on Afghanistan), the unseen victims of war, ableism, child soldiers, the dangers of technological advancements without human compassion, the balanced roles of religion and science, anti-capitalism, feminism, infertility, government control of media, trade unions and the rights of workers, PTSD and mental illness, animal rights, the effects of colonialism, the suppression of indigenous cultures, climate change, and so on. We saw the 12th Doctor specifically calling out racism as recently as last season.

Let's go back further into the Classic era. The Daleks were created by a writer who'd grown up during WWII, and were consciously based on the Nazis, with multiple Dalek adventures over a period of decades drawing deliberate parallels with Nazis and WWII. Other Classic adventures offer commentary on the Cold War, slavery, colonisation, the rights of indigenous peoples, scientific and technological advance without oversight, pacifism, weapons of mass destruction, capitalism, imperialism, trade unionism, and again I could go on - heck, the 7th Doctor has a whole three-part adventure battling against an autocratic ruler specifically modelled on the then prime minister Margaret Thatcher, who was felt by the production team to be far more terrifying than any monster the Doctor had encountered. The 4th Doctor had a four-part adventure that was written as a satire on the burdens of taxation!

But sure, this season was the first time the show has ever 'been political'. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms to make about this season, but 'Doctor Who has never been political before' is not one of them. Weak writing of political commentary isn't exactly a new thing for the show either - I haven't forgotten that Steven Moffat once wrote a gay couple whose only names were 'the fat one' and 'the thin one' and were written as cardboard cutout stereotypes with no deeper characterisation.

I've been watching Doctor Who since the early 80s and I can tell you that the current showrunner is always the worst ever in the history of the show. Doctor Who fans love their hyperbole.

 

I love you  

Probably one of the defining Dalek moments was from The Dalek Invasion Of Earth with Daleks rolling down the street with their plungers raised at juuuuust the right level to look like the Nazi salute. 

I’m glad you mentioned the Happiness Patrol. I’ve never actually seen that one, but the overt political nature of it is known even to me. 

Remberence Of The Daleks, the final Dalek story of the classic series even had Ace looking at a Whites Only sign in utter contempt. 

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On 12/28/2018 at 8:46 AM, ae2 said:

Also worth noting that out of the 38 critic reviews attributing to its overall 94% rating, only 6 of those reviews (15%) were written after October 22, and 27 of them were written before episode 2 aired. In other words, they're not really rating the entire season.

I haven't read all 38 reviews you're referring to, but often when critics are provided a show to review they often have advanced screeners of episodes. Some reviewers specifically mention that, but they don't necessarily bring it up in writing. So, for example, a review printed after only two episodes aired (unless it were specifically about one, the other, or both of those two episodes) is not necessarily the reviewer basing an opinion on just those. The reviewer might've personally seen 4-6 episodes by then.

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18 hours ago, Llywela said:

heck, the 7th Doctor has a whole three-part adventure battling against an autocratic ruler specifically modelled on the then prime minister Margaret Thatcher, who was felt by the production team to be far more terrifying than any monster the Doctor had encountered

Not even just about Thatcher generally, but one specifically about how she treated the gay community and the working class.

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On 1/6/2019 at 2:56 AM, Llywela said:

heck, the 7th Doctor has a whole three-part adventure battling against an autocratic ruler specifically modelled on the then prime minister Margaret Thatcher, who was felt by the production team to be far more terrifying than any monster the Doctor had encountered.

The 7th Doctor also marked a decline in viewership to the point where production was ended. ITA that the political commentary this season was not well written. In the Rosa Parks episode, was there even a single sentence addressing why the bus company had their policy? I noticed a little flag waving in a this wouldn't happen in Britain comment that raised the preachiness.

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https://www.nationaltvawards.com/index.php/

Doctor Who and Jodie Whittaker have been nominated for Britain’s National Television Awards 2019, DW for Best Drama and Jodie for Best Actor in a Drama. Apparently voted by the fans and the ceremony will be Jan 22. It appears the last time the show or lead was nominated was the Matt Smith era

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The New Statesman has a short piece that comes down very close to where I am:

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2019/01/why-isn-t-jodie-whittaker-s-doctor-who-lead-character-her-own-damn-show

"Actually, there are quite a lot of things bugging me: the endless telling not showing; the complete lack of subplots; the scenes with so many characters in that they look like a publicity shot of the Polyphonic Spree; the dialogue so on the nose that it makes you sneeze. But most of those are obvious, and they’ve been there all along, and either they bother you or they don’t, and if they don’t fair enough. Lucky you. There’s another, though, that it took me an embarrassingly long time to spot – although, in my defence, it is hidden behind both the blizzard of pre-season publicity and the single best thing about the entire season."

His thesis is, of course, that the "another" thing is what the question in the headline asks.

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On 1/12/2019 at 2:16 PM, QuantumMechanic said:

The New Statesman has a short piece that comes down very close to where I am:

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2019/01/why-isn-t-jodie-whittaker-s-doctor-who-lead-character-her-own-damn-show

"Actually, there are quite a lot of things bugging me: the endless telling not showing; the complete lack of subplots; the scenes with so many characters in that they look like a publicity shot of the Polyphonic Spree; the dialogue so on the nose that it makes you sneeze. But most of those are obvious, and they’ve been there all along, and either they bother you or they don’t, and if they don’t fair enough. Lucky you. There’s another, though, that it took me an embarrassingly long time to spot – although, in my defence, it is hidden behind both the blizzard of pre-season publicity and the single best thing about the entire season."

His thesis is, of course, that the "another" thing is what the question in the headline asks.

I have a hard time taking seriously an article asserting a "complete lack of subplots" but which itself is a complaint about how the subplots overshadow the main plots. 

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Sounds like someone likes the sound of their own voice based on that quote. 

One wasn't the "lead" per se either. 

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I think something as momentous as the first female Doctor was exactly the WRONG time to do the "i dont know who or what i am" schlock and the season would have come off much, much better if she had been allowed to step right into the role in its fullness. Also anyone complaining about Graham is just grinding an ax, if you subtract him for the season it would have been flat our horrible. 

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I hear what you're saying tv-talk,  I find myself comparing Graham to Bernard Cribbens'  role and it just doesn't measure up.  I truly miss Bernard Cribbens  on DW, he was a great character and brought a lot to the show. Honestly, I don't think I would miss Graham if he left..

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FYI

Also, there’s a tweet of seeing Jodie and gang on a flight out of Heathrow so they are likely filming abroad. Edited to add: Sounds like they went to South Africa again.

The tweet:

Edited by DanaK

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29 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Also, there’s a tweet of seeing Jodie and gang on a flight out of Heathrow so they are likely filming abroad

Wait, so they're filming stuff that probably wouldn't air until 2020? That's a little messed up. At least with SFX-influenced movies, you'd probably need the bulk of a year to work the CGI magic.

As for the usual mess . ..Season 11 made me feel whelmed. Also, I still can't get how Daleks became so popular in the Sixties, especially since they were basically Blobby Space Nazis.

@Last Time Lord . . . "The Happiness Patrol" was pretty good. Also, you get Kandy Man, a character that could only work on Doctor Who, and only the one story. Here's a sketch I got of him/it in 2012.

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1 minute ago, Lantern7 said:

Wait, so they're filming stuff that probably wouldn't air until 2020? That's a little messed up. At least with SFX-influenced movies, you'd probably need the bulk of a year to work the CGI magic.

They take 9 months to film so of course, plus post-production takes a lot of time. It’s a very complex show to produce and the BBC allegedly doesn’t give them a big budget. And the show was probably delayed to 2020 to give the producers more time to get the episodes made

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According to my Twitter feed, The National Television Awards are being awarded in Britain. Jodie lost best actor to Richard Madden in "Bodyguard" and Doctor Who lost in its best drama category, I don't know to which show. And apparently it was announced that Brad Walsh was not at the show because he's currently filming in South Africa for another show (Doctor Who of course)

 

Apparently Bradley Walsh's The Chase won at the NTAs for Best Quiz Show, but Brad didn't win for Best Presenter

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Just to fill in the gaps, Doctor Who lost to Peaky Blinders and Bradley Walsh lost to Ant & Dec.

Looks like the NTAs are more or less the UK's People's Choice Awards (TV categories), whereas the TV portion of the BAFTAs are the UK's Emmy equivalent?

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Yeah, the NTAs are basically a popularity contest, which is why Ant and Dec managed to win best presenter for the 18th year in a row despite the fact that Ant was in rehab for most of last year, with Dec soldiering on alone or with replacement partners. They have a massive fanbase, spread across the multiple shows they host, and have done ever since they first moved into presenting as a double act, after starting out as teen actors in Byker Grove (a popular teen drama series way back - they brought a huge fanbase with them from that into their presenting roles after leaving the show).

Little or no critical evaluation goes into the NTAs, it is all about the viewer vote. The BAFTAs are the more heavy-weight awards, based on peer review from within the industry.

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The NTAs may be “just” a vote by the public but it’s still good that the show and star got nominated when that hasn't happened since Matt Smith. It shows the fans are excited again

Jodie and Jodie Comer of Killing Eve both lost to Madden so that was pretty tough competition

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Just saw on Nerdrotic's  youtube site that the Rotten Tomatoes audience ratings is even lower now.  Bluray.com site reviews on the bluray release is not winning any favors for season 11 , saw it coming. 

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I'm watching SkyNews coverage of the UK Parliament Brexit debate. One of the hosts is interviewing members of parliament in the lobby and I'm pretty sure there's a guy cosplaying the Seventh Doctor wandering around in the background.

Speaking of which, I want the Speaker, John Bercow to make an appearance on the show. He's a real character.

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