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Doctor Who in the Media

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8 hours ago, DanaK said:

Tweeted by TVMoJoe, a Vulture writer:

”DOCTOR WHO wraps up its first Jodie Whittaker season Sunday, and at least as far as Nielsen is concerned, it's been a hit. Overall audience (including replays) is up 20% vs last Capaldi season, to 1.6M L+7 viewers. And the move to Sunday has helped same-day viewership spike 47%

Driving the DOCTOR WHO gains: Millennial women. The show has doubled its female 18-34 audience from its last season, and is now a top 15 cable show in that demo, per BBC America.”

It sounds like he’s talking strictly about BBC America and not BBC

Of course, some of the improvement is due to the move to Sunday (I’m sure the same is true for the BBC ratings), so it’s a bit of an apples-oranges comparison

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was up in England as well.  The Saturday to Sunday cuts in a lot of ways.  Plenty of people were upset about it.

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18 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was up in England as well.  The Saturday to Sunday cuts in a lot of ways.  Plenty of people were upset about it.

Yes, everything I’ve read confirms the BBC viewership is up

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On 12/7/2018 at 12:54 PM, cambridgeguy said:

It seems like barring unusual circumstances 3-4 seasons is the new normal before the actors burns out and leaves.  Companions have a shorter lifetime.

I think I read somewhere recently that the lead actor for DW generally has a 3 year contract, but I can’t remember where I read it. That’s less than the standard American contract of 5-7 years

Capaldi was asked to stay another year beyond his initial 3 but he declined

I’m sure there’s a burnout factor as well given how long it takes to shoot each episode and how much action the star has to do these days

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4 hours ago, tessaray said:

It looks like Chibnall won this round, with no new Who (other than the New Years special) until 2020.  

https://www.blogtorwho.com/doctor-who-series-12-hits-screens-in-2020/?fbclid=IwAR1kkJ7Y8NcQPysu-t0SIv_pzMaC4bT7RMxd_eiQjC2BjQK7Cxmc1WrpZKI 

Geeze, this show. I can’t believe they aren’t even going to try for split seasons in order to have at least some episodes in late 2019

 

Guess I’m going to have to spend next year catching up on all the previous seasons of new Who

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21 hours ago, DanaK said:

I think I read somewhere recently that the lead actor for DW generally has a 3 year contract, but I can’t remember where I read it. That’s less than the standard American contract of 5-7 years

Capaldi was asked to stay another year beyond his initial 3 but he declined

I’m sure there’s a burnout factor as well given how long it takes to shoot each episode and how much action the star has to do these days

It may be 3 seasons and not years.

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1 hour ago, Skyfall said:

It may be 3 seasons and not years.

Yeah, you are probably right. It may end up being a 5 year span if they keep taking more than a year between seasons

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 12:54 PM, cambridgeguy said:

It seems like barring unusual circumstances 3-4 seasons is the new normal before the actors burns out and leaves.  Companions have a shorter lifetime.

3-4 years has almost always been how long a Doctor has stayed around.

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22 hours ago, magdalene said:

Well, that should make the haters happy, they won't have new content to bitch and moan about. 

Just because some of us were not thrilled with this season doesn't make us haters. I love this show. I have loved it since the early 80s when a out of sorts Freshman like me, who always like British TV, found her hero, The Doctor and joined an exclusive club of "we are so cool we watch Doctor Who", long before everyone jumped on the bandwagon in the reboot. I owned a long scarf. I have subscribed to Doctor Who magazine. I stayed way too late during pledge drives on a school night to see The Doctor "save the universe. I survived Ghostlight. I wept when they tried to reboot it with the TV movie! I wept when they did reboot it with one of my favorite actors. I listen to the audios ...... I think after 35+ years, I have the right to say I wasn't happy with this season. I have the right to say, I expect more from this show.  I love this show, I want to see it do well, I don't want it to fail. I worry about its future.  I don't consider myself a hater, nor am I happy in the slightest that it won't be back until 2020. My criticism is out of love than hate. 

Edited by libgirl2
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58 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

My criticism is out of love than hate. 

This.

It hurts me to see a show I love so much reduced to THIS...Not a hater...just sad the show isn't what it once was. 

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1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

Just because some of us were not thrilled with this season doesn't make us haters. I love this show. I have loved it since the early 80s when a out of sorts Freshman like me, who always like British TV, found her hero, The Doctor and joined an exclusive club of "we are so cool we watch Doctor Who", long before everyone jumped on the bandwagon in the reboot. I owned a long scarf. I have subscribed to Doctor Who magazine. I stayed way too late during pledge drives on a school night to see The Doctor "save the universe. I survived Ghostlight. I wept when they tried to reboot it with the TV movie! I wept when they did reboot it with one of my favorite actors. I listen to the audios ...... I think after 35+ years, I have the right to say I wasn't happy with this season. I have the right to say, I expect more from this show.  I love this show, I want to see it do well, I don't want it to fail. I worry about its future.  I don't consider myself a hater, nor am I happy in the slightest that it won't be back until 2020. My criticism is out of love than hate. 

When I am thinking of "haters" I don't mean people who were not thrilled with this season. Personally I wasn't that thrilled with the writing this season either. I  prefer the Eccleston season and Tennant seasons to the state of things now.  When I think about how good the show was when Rose, Martha and Donna were the companions I get sad.

When I talk about "haters" I mean this vile and vicious section of the fandom who get very personal and nasty and absolutely hateful toward both Chris Chibnall and JW.   People who called me a stupid cow for expressing the hope that next season things may improve. 

I stand by the opinion that there is a section of this fandom that is awful. They act like Chibnall killed their child or something.  It's a TV show for crying out loud.

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15 hours ago, magdalene said:

When I am thinking of "haters" I don't mean people who were not thrilled with this season. Personally I wasn't that thrilled with the writing this season either. I  prefer the Eccleston season and Tennant seasons to the state of things now.  When I think about how good the show was when Rose, Martha and Donna were the companions I get sad.

When I talk about "haters" I mean this vile and vicious section of the fandom who get very personal and nasty and absolutely hateful toward both Chris Chibnall and JW.   People who called me a stupid cow for expressing the hope that next season things may improve. 

I stand by the opinion that there is a section of this fandom that is awful. They act like Chibnall killed their child or something.  It's a TV show for crying out loud.

I think its the fervent love for this show, its history, what it means to all of us, is what sparks some of the comments. I remember being so upset during the McCoy era because I saw the show I loved to pieces going to pieces. It hurts. I so want it to be on top of its game and its not :(

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On 12/10/2018 at 5:08 PM, magdalene said:

I stand by the opinion that there is a section of this fandom that is awful. They act like Chibnall killed their child or something. 

And had this season been the 'old enemies come back' and 'fate of the universe' every episode, they would have complained that it's the 'same thing over and over and they don't do anything different.' It just happens they're very vociferous because they don't have much else to do. Which is different than actual criticism borne out of watching the show and making observations on what one actually watched than what one imprinted of themselves on the show.

Fortunately, this place is more of the latter viewer. The former tend to complain about things that don't actually exist. 

Glad to see the ratings are up. The show is fine. They said ahead of time they were going in a different direction. It was the right choice. It's going to be just fine when the series returns. 

Edited by ganesh
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On 12/9/2018 at 6:31 PM, magdalene said:

Well, that should make the haters happy, they won't have new content to bitch and moan about. 

From what I’ve been reading, the show is the most complex show the British produce and the BBC has limited resources, including no overtime. I’ll try to find the article that explains it. I suppose one option is to sell it to an American company that has a way bigger budget and better resources and would probably give it a more regular schedule, but I feel sure in saying that likely wouldn’t go over well with the British public

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On 12/11/2018 at 12:08 AM, magdalene said:

They act like Chibnall killed their child or something.  It's a TV show for crying out loud.

That's over the top.  But the show certainly would be better without him.  Keep Whittaker and Walsh, though!

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5 hours ago, DanaK said:

I suppose one option is to sell it to an American company that has a way bigger budget and better resources and would probably give it a more regular schedule, but I feel sure in saying that likely wouldn’t go over well with the British public

I think they tried that with Eight in a way, and it didn't go over well with anyone. 

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4 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think they tried that with Eight in a way, and it didn't go over well with anyone. 

Do you mean the Fox TV movie that the fans don’t really want to claim?

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11 hours ago, DanaK said:

I suppose one option is to sell it to an American company that has a way bigger budget and better resources and would probably give it a more regular schedule, but I feel sure in saying that likely wouldn’t go over well with the British public

That would probably be the single worst thing that could happen to the show. I'm American, as a whole, our bigger budgets and better resources lead to less creativity, less charm, and more cookie cutter storytelling. It would be turned into a romance, the Doctor would travel with a hot companion (the Doctor, too, would be hot). They would have a will they won't they relationship. The show will start pandering to shippers and teasing the audience. The storylines will be less thought provoking and more "current events' (more like the spider ep with the horrible imitation of Trump)

Unless Michael Shure takes over. That would totally work for me. 

I have given up on most American dramas because they are all the same and any that are good are cancelled within a year, maybe two if they have someone big attached. 

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34 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

That would probably be the single worst thing that could happen to the show. I'm American, as a whole, our bigger budgets and better resources lead to less creativity, less charm, and more cookie cutter storytelling. It would be turned into a romance, the Doctor would travel with a hot companion (the Doctor, too, would be hot). They would have a will they won't they relationship. The show will start pandering to shippers and teasing the audience. The storylines will be less thought provoking and more "current events' (more like the spider ep with the horrible imitation of Trump)

Reminds me of the worst of 10/Rose.

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I'm American and the last thing I want is an American company to control Doctor Who.  Doctor Who is a British show and should stay a British show.

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On 12/12/2018 at 5:53 AM, DanaK said:

From what I’ve been reading, the show is the most complex show the British produce and the BBC has limited resources, including no overtime. I’ll try to find the article that explains it. I suppose one option is to sell it to an American company that has a way bigger budget and better resources and would probably give it a more regular schedule, but I feel sure in saying that likely wouldn’t go over well with the British public

Talking about the complexity of making the show https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2018/12/taking-year-not-unusual-british-tv-series-it-s-still-bad-doctor-who

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12 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Putting it in context is good. I would however dispute its final point. In contrast to the 20th century kids who would miss out on and consequently abandon Doctor Who during a break (as seemed to have happened during Five's tenure), this century gives kids easier access to old episodes to tie them over until the next series, thus preventing viewer number decreases due to long breaks.

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21 hours ago, magdalene said:

How about Chibnall being the show runner but having a writers room of different writers who write all the episodes?

From what I've read elsewhere, posters feel it's likely that since he's set out the tone of the show in the first season, he'll now being able to step back from writing for the most part and let more people do it. Apparently Davies and Moffet wrote less and less in subsequent seasons once they set the direction

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So basically, "It's not the same as last time and it's different than I was expecting." From a show whose main premise is literally reinventing itself. 

And if we had whatever 'connection to its past,' or 'whatever about villains', they'd be saying 'oh it's the same as it's been, they should have done something different.'

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2 hours ago, ganesh said:

So basically, "It's not the same as last time and it's different than I was expecting." From a show whose main premise is literally reinventing itself. 

And if we had whatever 'connection to its past,' or 'whatever about villains', they'd be saying 'oh it's the same as it's been, they should have done something different.'

Yes, that was pretty silly.  New aliens are great but we should have stuck with the old villains.  Return to educational roots was good but there was no continuity with the past.  And to talk about 9 as having continuity with a completely invented time war and alleged end of the time lords is pretty, pretty, silly.

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14 hours ago, ganesh said:

So basically, "It's not the same as last time and it's different than I was expecting." From a show whose main premise is literally reinventing itself. 

And if we had whatever 'connection to its past,' or 'whatever about villains', they'd be saying 'oh it's the same as it's been, they should have done something different.'

To be honest, a lot of stuff in that article was on point.  Particularly in regards to Chibnall's writing, which encompasses a lot of what was disliked.

I'll stand by what I said earlier...I didn't mind going with the new monsters.  But if you're going to do new monsters, then make them memorable.  Chibnall did not.

Edited by benteen
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Not sure if this counts as media, but I thought it fit here. There is a store at a nearby mall that always has Doctor Who items.... everything from t-shirts to TARDIS dresses to socks to toys. I even have a TARDIS charm necklace from a few years back that DH got me for Christmas. The last few years there have been less and less items. Yesterday I went in there to look around and did not see one Doctor Who themed item. Kind of sad. 

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4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Not sure if this counts as media, but I thought it fit here. There is a store at a nearby mall that always has Doctor Who items.... everything from t-shirts to TARDIS dresses to socks to toys. I even have a TARDIS charm necklace from a few years back that DH got me for Christmas. The last few years there have been less and less items. Yesterday I went in there to look around and did not see one Doctor Who themed item. Kind of sad. 

If it does not fit here, hopefully the mods can tell us where we should discuss this.

One of my teen's favorite mall stores, with the initials of H. T., always has Doctor Who items available.  I almost commented back in October that Jodie's overcoat and rainbow-t were front and center in the front of the store if anyone was interested in a costume.  I have not been there lately, I imagine that the latest movie stuff is out front now but I know I can find DW items one rack back.

Edited by elle

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51 minutes ago, elle said:

If it does not fit here, hopefully the mods can tell us where we should discuss this.

One of my teen's favorite mall stores, with the initials of H. T., always has Doctor Who items available.  I almost commented back in October that Jodie's overcoat and rainbow-t were front and center in the front of the store if anyone was interested in a costume.  I have not been there lately, I imagine that the latest movie stuff is out front now but I know I can find DW items one rack back.

 

That was the store in question. Maybe they did have things before, but they always have tons of Doctor Who stuff ready for the holiday. I still have my shooting Dalek mug I got as a freebie a few years back. Every year, its the place I make  the last stop to find something cute and surprising for a gift. DH still wears his TARDIS PJ pants! 

Edited by libgirl2

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Can someone explain why on Rotton Tomatoes reviews site, Season 11 Doctor Who audience rating is only 30% and the critics rate it at 94%?  I've been watching the nonstop  older episodes  of past Doctor Who on BBCAmerica .  Honestly, they've been awesome compared to the crap sandwich of season 11 episodes. 

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Just now, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Can someone explain why on Rotton Tomatoes reviews site, Season 11 Doctor Who audience rating is only 30% and the critics rate it at 94%?  I've been watching the nonstop  older episodes  of past Doctor Who on BBCAmerica .  Honestly, they've been awesome compared to the crap sandwich of season 11 episodes. 

I’ve seen some comments elsewhere that think it is some fans ganging up and review bombing

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1 hour ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Or there really is a lot of DW fans pissed off at the direction the series is taking.  I know one thing , all the fun that was DW has been been sucked out with the season 11 episodes. 

I think it's more than the conflict within the fandom -- might be trolls, might be actual fans, no way to tell -- that took a lot of air out of S11. Chibnall not going for the rim-rocking crowd-pleasing slam dunks probably didn't help.

In case you didn't see it, here's a teaser for what might be the only DW we'll get in 2019.

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14 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Or there really is a lot of DW fans pissed off at the direction the series is taking.  I know one thing , all the fun that was DW has been been sucked out with the season 11 episodes. 

Ain't that the truth. But it's no surprise that the man who turned cheeky, charming Captain Jack into a dull as ditchwater mope has no sense of fun.

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The UK has many accomplished science fiction writers, some with script experience. Why did none of this series writers other than Chibnall have genre credentials? Just former Eastenders writers and authors of political plays.

Grant Morrison? Alan Moore? Warren Ellis? Such writers would have turned in scripts that had ideas that were at least original and interesting.

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1 hour ago, clack said:

The UK has many accomplished science fiction writers, some with script experience. Why did none of this series writers other than Chibnall have genre credentials? Just former Eastenders writers and authors of political plays.

Grant Morrison? Alan Moore? Warren Ellis? Such writers would have turned in scripts that had ideas that were at least original and interesting.

Moore has written for DW before, though I gather he didn't much enjoy it. As for the others, it's not up to them. Chibnall hires who he wants.

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On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:00 PM, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Can someone explain why on Rotton Tomatoes reviews site, Season 11 Doctor Who audience rating is only 30% and the critics rate it at 94%?  I've been watching the nonstop  older episodes  of past Doctor Who on BBCAmerica .  Honestly, they've been awesome compared to the crap sandwich of season 11 episodes. 

Season 11 was a disappointment to me but 30% sounds more like trolls than anything else.

Hopefully, the New Year's special will be the beginning of a promising future for Doctor Who storywise.

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1 hour ago, benteen said:

Season 11 was a disappointment to me but 30% sounds more like trolls than anything else.

Hopefully, the New Year's special will be the beginning of a promising future for Doctor Who storywise.

Given IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes are known for having trolls spiking things and given the over the top hate from some quarters on social media against Jodie and the show, including the #NotMyDoctor nonsense, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the RT user scores were being driven by trolls

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Reminds me of the politicized, contentious reactions to the Ghostbusters reboot or the Last Jedi. Media critics overrate it because of politics, fans on social media underrate it because of politics.

When the brouhaha is over, a consensus emerges. Let's see what people think about Season 11 after DW has been off TV for a year. 

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Time, as well as sales of DW Season 11 memorabilia, DVD , Bluray,  & streaming  demand will determine how much money is going to be generated. Will the demand be enough to BBC to afford another season ?

Looks like Rotten Tomatoes had audience reviews down to 26%.

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On 12/25/2018 at 11:00 PM, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Can someone explain why on Rotton Tomatoes reviews site, Season 11 Doctor Who audience rating is only 30% and the critics rate it at 94%?  I've been watching the nonstop  older episodes  of past Doctor Who on BBCAmerica .  Honestly, they've been awesome compared to the crap sandwich of season 11 episodes. 

Critics love it because it catered to the zeitgeist. Read through a few of their reviews and you'll see they're almost exclusively praising the show for its so-called progressiveness rather than evaluating the story telling itself or the actual quality of the show.

Also worth noting that out of the 38 critic reviews attributing to its overall 94% rating, only 6 of those reviews (15%) were written after October 22, and 27 of them were written before episode 2 aired. In other words, they're not really rating the entire season.

That isn't to say the user reviews are fair evaluations either. The usual garbage is there. However, perusing them, many are more informed and provide better analysis than the critics' reviews. Here's a decent one that hits on some of the major problems with the season (all emphasis mine):

Quote

This series is just downright bad. On almost every single level than visually looking great.

Jodie, while a great actress in other shows, is 100% miscast as the Doctor. And while I was never a fan of having a female Doctor, the idea still could have worked. Her portrayal is surface level kooky and kind without having any real depth, knowledge of who the character is or any sense that the character she is playing is over 2000 years old and past experience is just forgotten about completly.

Aside from two standout actors (Bradley Walsh and Alan Cumming who should genuinely have been the Doctor. O at least still played King James running around alien planets and accusing everything of 'WITCHCRAFT') there are no characters that are actually interesting or down right entertaining to watch.

The writing is terrible. Past series have always had their moments of bad storylines, plot holes and stupid ideas. But this takes the cake. Chibnall went from an occasional writer with some obvious flaws and weaknesses in his stories, to showrunner. And he just doesn't get any better at his storytelling or pacing and has squandered some really interesting ideas/concepts to focus on terrible ones. And with him guiding the show now, writing most of the episodes and bringing in new writers without any experience in science fiction....and you just get a total farce of what was once a great show. Doctor who has always had it's 'exposition heavy' moments....but that is what 80% of the dialogue this series is. And it is just damn boring to watch.

Honestly I am also glad that there are no returning villians or aliens (bar the Daleks in the NY special) because god knows how they would have turned out. An entire season of brand new monsters and aliens could have been fantastic if there was any actual thought or creativity put into them. Instead we got a egotistical tooth fairy, a space racist, angry cloth, Stitch after years of meth abuse, Spiders that were just misunderstood, Demons that were just misunderstood, Delivery robots that actually aren't the real bad guy, and....a bloody frog that is a past universe. Oh don't forget the worse foe of all....white men. 

Honestly, take the audience rating how you want. Is it being bombed with bad reviews by trolls or sexists? I don't doubt there is SOME of that. Is there an attempt to bring up the scores by people who think that every bad review is totally invalid? Yep, there is some of that too.

But for me, this is not Doctor Who. Plain and simple. Whittaker is not the Doctor that I have spent so long watching and looking up to. The stories have been written so awful, I am close to going into conspiracy mode and saying it is done on a dare (How did Chibnall write the Tsuranga Condundrum and think....oh this is acceptable) and the characters and monsters might as well be cardboard.

Every series before this has had its good and its bad and its rubbish (I could go on and on about series 8, 7, 6...). But these last 10 episodes have been some terrible fever dream and hopefully the BBC wakes up from it and realises what a massive cock up they have done to show that really didn't need to be treated like this at all.

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Like I said, it’s hard to gauge how good the series is because of the extremes involved. Maybe measure that and past seasons with the meridian? 🤷‍♂️

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