"Where do you see yourself in 20 years?": Endeavor vs. Inspector Morse

[yeswedo]

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[Milz]

not really a comparison but more of an theory..

 

When I watched Morse, it bothered me that he would insult Lewis by  saying something that Lewis "should have known". But now, I'm beginning to think that Morse isn't insulting Lewis. That it was Morse recalling something from his past and is thinking aloud or frustrated that Lewis (or he himself) hadn't remembered it earlier.

 

Of course, as the series progresses this theory might be blown to bits. But still it's giving me a bit more insight into  Inspector Morse.

[starri]

Since I came to this series in a roundabout fashion (never having seen Morse, I caught one or two of what had been expected to be the final season of Lewis and stuck around when the first Endeavour dropped), am I missing a great deal by not seeking those out first?

 

Mostly, I'm here because I like a well-constructed mystery, I love Thursday, the production values are splendid, and I think Shaun Evans is darling.

[BindsTheTuna]

I've never seen any of Morse, and just happened to stumble upon Rocket (the episode with the royal visit and Endeavour gets some bootay) about a year ago and loved it. I binged-watched the other four episodes of Series 1 last week on Netflix.

[dcalley]

@starri, I haven't seen Morse either. I watched Lewis from day one but have never gotten into Morse. I never felt like that was an issue, but this latest episode has me feeling like I've missed something. Morse and a secret society had some big beef later on, I take it? And Strange is involved?

 

Mostly, I'm here because I like a well-constructed mystery, I love Thursday, the production values are splendid, and I think Shaun Evans is darling.

All of this!

[jjj]

"The Masonic Mysteries" is mentioned over in the "Trove" thread -- I have not seen it in a long time, but as the current "Endeavour" writing seem to be referencing it, I will go back and watch it.  I'm so glad they are exploring the reverse continuity!  I really liked the old "Inspector Morse" series, but "Endeavour" I like even more.  Has some of the same flaws, which are the human flaws of Morse, not the writers.  Again, good reverse continuity. 

[Milz]

My PBS station has a "UK Channel", which only shows UK programs. They show Inspector Morse every Wednesday night.

 

It's nice watching Morse and watching Endeavour, because it gives insight into both characters (I know that sounds weird).

 

jjj, I think the Masonic ties explains why Strange is Morse's boss in 20-30 years.

[jjj]

Yes, one of my PBS stations also shows the original "Inspector Morse" episodes on Fridays.  But we do not have a "UK channel"!  That would be terrific!

 

In this newer series, they are definitely setting up the backstories for the future Morse and Strange --- and it's making me want to watch them more closely than I had before. 

[Milz]

In this newer series, they are definitely setting up the backstories for the future Morse and Strange --- and it's making me want to watch them more closely than I had before. 

 

Yes. And I'm beginning to wonder how Thursday's relationship with Morse influences Morse's relationship with Lewis. In the last Lewis series (or at least what we thought was the last Lewis series, Lewis says something like Morse wouldn't have tolerated something and Superintendent Innocent response is that Morse had a lot to answer to. I presumed that dialogue was to intrigue us enough to watch the Endeavour program and I also presumed that Innocent knew Strange destroyed evidence for Morse in The Remorseful Day. But it could be something else.

[Milz]

jjj wrote in the Sway thread:

 

 

It is not that Morse is facing impending doom, but that he is portrayed in later life as having continual disappointment and frustration, personally and professionally.  And I think they are doing a beautiful job in this series of laying the groundwork for a life of disappointment.  (So sorry, Endeavour!)

 

I agree, but I don't think Morse thought of his life as a disappointment. He had regrets--the scene in The Remorseful Day where Morse is at home listening to opera  is chilling because is he thinking of his life or is he thinking about the case or both. But who doesn't have regrets?

 

I  think Morse was the kind of guy who couldn't get close to people. Sure he has a girlfriend when he was at Oxford and a steady-ish girlfriend in the last episodes of Morse, and we are currently seeing Monica on Endeavour, but there is something in him that prevents him from committing.

[jjj]

This is going to sound like I am being too specific, but I did not mean that he had a disappointing life -- but that he had a life of disappointments.  To the outside observer, he had a successful career and deep cultural love and activities.  Yet on the personal, and sometimes professional side, when viewed from his vantage point, I feel disappointment.

 

I totally agree about his inability to commit -- which is usually expressed through making romantic choices that he has to know are flawed. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by jjj

[cheeztoast]

I've seen a couple of Morse episodes and have now watched all of the eps of Endeavour minus the one airing this Sunday.  I need a diagram as to who is who.  I watched Morse with my parents and my dad pointed out old Strange and I blinked and missed him so I don't understand his significance in later years.  I can't remember the name of the guy young Morse shares the office with, the nasty rat-faced one.  Is that Lewis?  Who's Lewis?  Who's Thursday in the later years?  Is he in Morse?  I haven't had time yet to go back and watch all the old eps of Morse.  And now that I'm in love with Shaun Evans (or Jesse Eisenberg, but with amazing eyes),  I don't know if I want to see more of old man Thaw.

[Endeavour]

Someone will answer with more specific information, but Lewis is not in Endeavour and Thursday is not in Inspector Morse. Strange is the Chief Superintendent in Inspector Morse.

[jjj]

Inspector Thursday never appears in the original [later years] series of "Inspector Morse".-- I do not remember him being mentioned. 

 

The only person we have met in "Endeavour" who shows up in the later years is Strange (later played by James Grout), who becomes the Chief Superintendent in the original (later years) "Inspector Morse" series; is problematic for Morse to deal with. 

 

Robert ("Robbie") Lewis is a Detective Sergeant in the "Inspector Morse" series; and is later promoted in his own series "Inspector Lewis" (played by Kevin Whatley in both series).  He is a sympathetic foil to Morse; Lewis is a family man whom Morse is continually trying to pull into pubs for drinks.  Robbie would not even have been born, or was barely born, at the time of the "Endeavour" series. 

[Milz]

he had a successful career and deep cultural love and activities. 

 

 

But even that love of culture (especially opera, poetry, architecture)  is flawed at its heart. Morse tells Lewis that he learned poetry and listened to opera because his stepmother hated it and as a teen, he spent his school holidays touring churches and stately homes.

[cheeztoast]

Very helpful, thanks!  So Thursday is completely a creation of Colin Dexter? Or was he in the original Morse books?

[jjj]

Colin Dexter is the author of the original Morse books.  I do not know if Thursday is in there (I very much doubt it!), but I have never made it through more than one chapter of any of the books.  (Again, I love mystery novels, but not these!)

[Milz]

Colin Dexter created the characters of Chief Inspector Morse, Detective Sergeant Lewis, Chief Superintendent Strange, Max the pathologist, the Thames Valley Police and all the fictional Oxford Colleges (like Lonsdale). He also created Lewis' family (his wife at least) and what we know of Morse's family---mother was a Quaker, father was a taxi driver who liked Captain Cook. Mother died. Father remarried Gwen. Morse and Gwen can't stand each other. But Morse loves his half-sister, Joyce, and her family.

 

Anything outside of that isn't Dexter's creations, but are inspired by or based upon his works.

 

Confused??? lol.

 

I think Dexter has some input in the series.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/the-morse-code-no-other-actors-will-be-allowed-to-play-colin-dexters-detective-after-the-late-john-thaw-9213246.html

[Endeavour]

Mother died. Father remarried Gwen. Morse and Gwen can't stand each other. But Morse loves his half-sister, Joyce, and her family

Which episode(s) is this information revealed in if you remember?

[jjj]

I think this is in the books -- part of it (the father's re-marriage) was discussed in one or two episodes when Gwen the step-mother was mentioned.  Gwen appeared in "Cherubim and Seraphim," along with Morse's half-sister. 

[Endeavour]

Thanks. I also didn't get very far into the first book. I think after this series of Endeavour, I'll rewatch the Morse series because I have forgotten quite a bit.

[Milz]

Cherubim and Seraphim as jjj wrote is where you get to how much stepmom Gwen hates Morse. OTOH, you get to see how much Morse cares about his halfsister, Joyce, and her family.

[M. Darcy]

 

The only person we have met in "Endeavour" who shows up in the later years is Strange

There's also Max! 

[debi49]

Between Inspector Morse, Lewis and Endeavour, the Morse-verse has been part of my life for 25+ years. Can't say that about much TV. I have enjoyed all of it.

[Milz]

Hey, look at it like this. Colin Dexter's will prohibits another actor playing  the role of Morse (John Thaw's Morse). BUT short of funds and interest, nothing will stop them from doing a prequel based on a young Fred Thursday or doing an Inspector Hathaway series.

[jjj]

I would so watch a young Fred Thursday in the 1930s or war years!  And I think the Colin Dexter's will prohibits the re-filming of the episodes in which John Thaw appeared; if so, they could have more episodes in the 1980s with new plots.  But there are a LOT of years between 1966 and mid-1980s, so if they want to continue Endeavour beyond a third season, there is plenty of room to grow.    There have been many different Sherlocks and Watsons, after all, and many different ways to be excellent in those roles.

[Endeavour]

 

I think the Colin Dexter's will prohibits the re-filming of the episodes in which John Thaw appeared; if so, they could have more episodes in the 1980s with new plots.

 

The article linked upthread makes it seem that Colin Dexter will not allow anyone else to play Morse, Here's the link: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/the-morse-code-no-other-actors-will-be-allowed-to-play-colin-dexters-detective-after-the-late-john-thaw-9213246.html

 

I think that's a good thing.

[jjj]

Yes, it is a good thing -- I think I was being too literal when I read that the will is going to prohibit any new filming of the *episodes* in which John Shaw starred:

 

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11101619.Young_Morse_actor_hints_at_end_to_Endeavour_episodes___Video/

 

Just, more, please, of *something* Morse-related!

[Endeavour]

But not this!

 

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11116748.Fans_furious_at_Hollywood___s_plans_for_Morse__The_Movie/?ref=ar

 

This was in a link at the bottom of the article you posted. At first I was horrified, then realized it was an April Fools Day story. Whew.

[jjj]

Holy cow!!!  I had not noticed that link, and would have been totally horrified -- well, until about half-way through!   Thanks for posting the link for us!  (Nice touch about hiring "Dick van Dyke's  English-dialect coach," as the moaning about his terrible Cockney accent was revived last year with that Mary Poppins movie.  Love, love, love Mr. van Dyke, so no insult intended!)

[jjj]

This seems to be the best place to ask this:  I have "Inspector Morse" available on Netflix, and it looks like both seasons of "Endeavour" and six of "Inspector Lewis" are available on Amazon Prime.  Has anyone viewed them there?  Are they the quality we hope for (good), and commercial free?   I watched part of one "Endeavour" episode that was on Netflix a few weeks ago, and the video quality was wonderful.  But it disappeared the next day.  PBS has "scenes" but no complete episodes for the past few weeks.  So hard to decide how/where to watch (or re-watch) shows. 

[Endeavour]

I've never had a problem with the quality on Netflix. Can't speak to Amazon personally, but I know people who use it and have no complaints. Netflix doesn't have commercials. Netflix must have just taken Inspector Lewis off instant. It was in my queue and now it's gone. I shouldn't have procrastinated.

[jjj]

I think the video quality on Netflix is great, and appreciate the no-commercial viewings.  (I also use Hulu, which has commercials in some things.)  I'll probably give Amazon Prime a try, as it has all the Endeavour episodes and all of Inspector Lewis right now, and I'd rather re-watch them in HD, now that I've seen how good this show looks.  I've also had several other shows disappear from Netflix, so I need to carpe diem on re-watching Inspector Morse this summer! 

[kassygreene]

I just re-watched the Endeavor pilot and season 1 on Prime.  The quality was very good, and it's my impression that it streamed very smoothly.

[jjj]

Thanks very much!  I'm new to streaming shows like this, and am really preferring streaming.  The quality of this series (in videography) is quite lovely, especially the darkly lit scenes. 

[M. Darcy]

I had a thought this morning watching Morse drive his car around Oxford - I wonder when (they have to) show him buying the car, if they will actually use the same exact car they did in the series.  I think its still around somewhere. 

[jjj]

Did he ever say when he bought the car?  I can't recall if it was in the television series. 

[Milz]

Morse drove a red Jag. I can't remember what happens to it in the book after he dies (in the book, he leaves Lewis a nice sum of money). They don't say what happened to it in Lewis.

[M. Darcy]

I'll have to look in the book when I get home tonight - I remember his will was very specific.   Hopefully, I can see the pages through all the tears! 

[jjj]

I was actually asking about when he bought it -- if he ever said when. 

[Milz]

jjj, I  don't remember if Morse revealed when he bought the red Jag. I do remember in a Morse episode the Jag was damaged and brought to a repair shop

[M. Darcy]

 

I can't remember what happens to it in the book after he dies

 

I looked at the end of the book where Lewis finds the will and its not mentioned at all - he lists his assets as the flat, the contents in the flat, insurance policies and his money in the bank.  I'll have to read more to see what happened to the car.  But aw, Lewis finds some photos that meant a lot to Morse and one of them was a picture of Morse & Lewis standing in front of the car. 

[Milz]

The actual car was auctioned and is available for hire:

 

http://www.morsejaguar.co.uk/

[jjj]

That is very cool!  You have to actually email to find out the cost of hiring the car, which makes "appearances", not available to tootle around the countryside. 

 

It is a 1960 model, so Endeavour bought it used, whenever he got it.  Glad it is in the time frame of this early series! 

[M. Darcy]

I finished re-reading The Remorseful Day and there is no mention of what happened to the car - I guess it's considered part of the contents of the flat.

And every single time I read the line where Morse dies, I cry. Colin gets to me every single time. Curse you Dexter!!

[cheeztoast]

I finally got around to watching the 1980s/early 1990s Inspector Morse - now I'm bummed because Netflix only has through Season 5 (or is it 4?).  I have to admit that I prefer Midsomer Murders, for sheer hilarity, and John Nettles, but I think the Oxford atmosphere grows on you after those first 15 episodes.

[TeslaNewton]

I finally got around to watching the 1980s/early 1990s Inspector Morse - now I'm bummed because Netflix only has through Season 5 (or is it 4?).  I have to admit that I prefer Midsomer Murders, for sheer hilarity, and John Nettles, but I think the Oxford atmosphere grows on you after those first 15 episodes.

Netflix added the rest of the episodes to streaming.

[Captanne]

I noticed some discussion in another thread about Morse's limp.  I was a big fan of John Thaw's Morse, back in the day, and remembered the actor's limp.  (He picks up and puts down his right leg like he had dropfoot in an earlier portion of his life and never really recovered.)  

 

I don't know if Dexter wrote that Morse had a limp but Thaw definitely had one.

 

So, the nod to Morse's (Thaw's) limp is wonderful continuity!!

 

I've only just started watching Endeavour and as someone mentioned in another thread, ", Shaun Evans is dreamy."

 

I'm not a married man, I'm a straight woman and I can vouch for that observation.  Dreamy indeed.

[cheeztoast]

TeslaNewton - you just made my day!  Luckily I've been occupied with catching up on Inspector Lewis but now I have weekend viewing to do!

[LeGrandElephant]

There was a marathon of inspector morse this week and I'm watching some of it for the first time. I'm kind of amazed how old and unattractive inspector morse is and how they still have relatively young and attractive women constantly having connections with him every episode. He's also kind of a jerk to Lewis. The other thing I notice is that the acting level of one-off characters seems significantly worse in this show than in the new ones.

I like both the new shows better (Inspector Lewis and Endeavor).