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S01.E19: Falling Apart

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3 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I am trying to understand Ronald, I really am, but I have rarely gambled.  I can't say never as I have bought about 10 lottery tickets and played the slots once in Vegas (it was in the airport, not a casino) so I just don't get the attraction!  I am the girl who went to Vegas for a week and never entered a casino.   Hot weather, a pool and people watching were on my agenda!  Heck I was next to Liquor World and went in every day for a.......Diet Coke.

My uncle had a gambling addiction.  The anticipation of possibly winning actually gives you a dopamine rush just like actually winning.  You win 5 dollars, loose 10, win 20, loose 50.  The whole thing is designed to make you feel like the next one is gonna be the one where you win big and walk away.  It's exciting with all the flashing lights and feel good music.  He'd buy piles of lottery tickets at a time and win juuuust enough that he was convinced that next scratch was gonna be the big one.  And sometimes he DID win fairly large amounts and that would make him feel good, but it never covered the losses.  Some people can get addicted to that rush of dopamine just like a drug.  And just like most people can have a few drinks but never become an alcoholic, most people can play slots for an hour or so and never become addicted.

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19 hours ago, Gobi said:

I know that Sumbitch told Jenny that he quit his job, I just don't believe him.

He might have quit, he never went to work but maybe when he said he was going to his parents and was gone for a week or so he also went to work, maybe his employer has a liberal PTO plan, lol.

Maybe if Jenny knew he was working he thought he might have to spend some of his money and he was not down for that!

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19 hours ago, suzeecat said:

Mother Paul just makes me thank my lucky stars that my sons grew to be productive members of society able to pay their own bills.  It's one thing to cut your adult son off, but there is an innocent baby involved here.  Apparently her only grandchild.  But, good for her for at least trying. 

I agree!!  I know some people think with a baby involved she should sponsor them but I don't know.  I have a hunch my house would be filled with four kids under the age of five and Paul asking her for a divorce every day.

18 hours ago, alegtostandon said:

Liam looked just as  ridiculous as Laura looked.  Aladdin was very handsome in his tux.  When they panned out to the dance floor,  there were some absolutely gorgeous women , I wonder what they thought of Aladin marrying the older,  over weight,  stringy haired blonde with the Indiana Jones son with a camel fang hanging around his neck!?

I wondered that too!!  To me, it is not the weight issue with Laura, lots of guys like their women a but thick - she is past thick though.  It is her personality that is such a turn off, going back to the "He better be there to pick me up if he knows what is good for him.  But yes she should have brushed her hair.  To her obstinate attitude about the wine (not aired but it was posted here via youtube.)

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I was trying to answer Mu Shu’s observation (but somehow my iPad isn’t highlighting text) that people generally don’t have a second child 20 years later. Men do it all the time! And Penn Jillette, of the comedy/magic duo Penn and Teller has a full sister 23 years older! A friend of mine was born when her mother was 54 (surprise!) and did not die for another 44 years. So it does happen, though doubtful in these two cases. Is it possible that Arabic men know that little about reproductive biology and age? Or is it part of the game to satisfy their scheme? 

As for Tiffsters, depending on how far along she is and how quickly she returns to the states, she has, er...options for handling or ending the pregnancy. Not that I’m encouraging that, just mentioning.

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10 hours ago, RealReality said:

5. Paul seemed genuinely upset that his mother wasn't going to support him, karine and a baby.  Paul is nearly 40.  The hell?  Maybe he can get some job translating documents from Spanish to English.  

When we had international indictments and court records we had to have them translated, so it's clearly someone's job.

Paul and Karine are in Brazil, so it's likely there could be a need for translating documents from Portuguese to English.  

However, he can't even do basic Portuguese communication with his wife, so becoming a professional translator doesn't look like a good match for his skills.  Actually, he has demonstrated NO skills in any area, so that may be why he's upset that Mama isn't going to continue to support him.

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14 minutes ago, OrchidThief said:

As for Tiffsters, depending on how far along she is and how quickly she returns to the states, she has, er...options for handling or ending the pregnancy. Not that I’m encouraging that, just mentioning.

Tiffany's endgame is to get Ronald into the US.  I find that annoying for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that she is gambling with a child's life.  

No way does she not have that baby in the hopes that it'll get Ronald here permanently.

I suspect she is on some sort of government support*, so she may not be as concerned about having a baby in the US which has these social nets, but she might be harder pressed in s. Africa - which may not have the same social programs. 

* - she may make good money as a makeup artist, but I have my doubts.  And she has a child to support.  Most people I know who are MA do so as a side hustle.  

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6 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Paul and Karine are in Brazil, so it's likely there could be a need for translating documents from Portuguese to English.  

However, he can't even do basic Portuguese communication with his wife, so becoming a professional translator doesn't look like a good match for his skills.  Actually, he has demonstrated NO skills in any area, so that may be why he's upset that Mama isn't going to continue to support him.

Yeah, that's the rub.  The Spanish translation is literally the only skill I can think of that might allow him some kind of work that he could do remotely over the phone/computer.  

If he was more proficient in portugese he'd have more options.  

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16 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Tiffany's endgame is to get Ronald into the US.  I find that annoying for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that she is gambling with a child's life.  

No way does she not have that baby in the hopes that it'll get Ronald here permanently.

I suspect she is on some sort of government support*, so she may not be as concerned about having a baby in the US which has these social nets, but she might be harder pressed in s. Africa - which may not have the same social programs. 

* - she may make good money as a makeup artist, but I have my doubts.  And she has a child to support.  Most people I know who are MA do so as a side hustle.  

spoiler, sorry.....will post in the couple's thread. 

Edited by Hannah94
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2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Yeah, that's the rub.  The Spanish translation is literally the only skill I can think of that might allow him some kind of work that he could do remotely over the phone/computer.  

If he was more proficient in portugese he'd have more options.  

Well, if all he had to translate was "Do you want a divorce?" , I think he could make a decent living.

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18 hours ago, Matty said:

Don't forget Paul's seemingly sensible Mom raised Paul so that's a big strike against her.

Not really.  I think she did her best with the child God gave her.  

In the end, Paul is in charge of his life and decisions, not his mother.   I’d say Paul hasn’t been dealt a full deck of cards.  That’s not his mother’s fault.  

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10 hours ago, Hellohappylife said:

Ugh Tiffany continues to get on my last nerve with her Holier than tho attitude. She makes it seem like America is this magical world where crimes don’t occur, poverty doesn’t exsist, healthcare is free, children are safe to play outside without fear. America has its faults just like any other country. Reality must be finally sinking into her dumb ass that getting her loser husband to the states won’t be as easy as the baby making process she’s trapping the addict with. 

Exactly what does she think the standard of living is for under-employed felon addicts in the US is?

He'd be lucky to get a job as a janitor.

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18 hours ago, Azubah said:

Daniel does look like John Megna! You called it! I was wracking my brain trying to figure it out. I find from Wikipedia that he was Connie Stevens' half brother (man, Connie got all the looks in that gene pool), he was also in the Miri episode of Star Trek, and very sadly, he died of AIDS-related complications at age 42. 

He looks like a kid version of Freddie Mercury to me.

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14 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I am trying to understand Ronald, I really am, but I have rarely gambled.  I can't say never as I have bought about 10 lottery tickets and played the slots once in Vegas (it was in the airport, not a casino) so I just don't get the attraction!  I am the girl who went to Vegas for a week and never entered a casino.   Hot weather, a pool and people watching were on my agenda!  Heck I was next to Liquor World and went in every day for a.......Diet Coke.

I view gambling as spending for entertainment and assume that I am going to lose every penny.  If you do that and set a limit it can be fun in small doses.  

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2 minutes ago, Spike said:

I view gambling as spending for entertainment and assume that I am going to lose every penny.  If you do that and set a limit it can be fun in small doses.  

So much this.  I view it the same way I would money I spent on a concert or a play....it's entertainment money.  

If I come back with ANY portion of the money I've put aside for gambling I consider it a win....as if the movie theater refunded part of my ticket. 

But I don't know, I generally play penny slots and only the ones with games because I just like lights and pictures and pressing buttons and games.  

I had a friend who would wayyyy overspend when he gambled.  We went to Vegas once and by the time we left stateline he was already down 2k.  Ridiculous.  He stopped telling us about his losses after he was down 5k.  Luckily he didn't live near a casino so it wasn't a part of his daily life.  

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8 minutes ago, RealReality said:

So much this.  I view it the same way I would money I spent on a concert or a play....it's entertainment money.  

If I come back with ANY portion of the money I've put aside for gambling I consider it a win....as if the movie theater refunded part of my ticket. 

But I don't know, I generally play penny slots and only the ones with games because I just like lights and pictures and pressing buttons and games.  

I had a friend who would wayyyy overspend when he gambled.  We went to Vegas once and by the time we left stateline he was already down 2k.  Ridiculous.  He stopped telling us about his losses after he was down 5k.  Luckily he didn't live near a casino so it wasn't a part of his daily life.  

Oh I agree - I am not anti gambling in any way, I hope I did not present as such.  It is just not my thing.

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On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 7:38 AM, Mu Shu said:

And I’m sorry, but who has a child 20 years after their original kids grow up?

My mom!  Who was pretty awesome.  And I was the kid, with a sister a couple of years after that.  My mom had finally DTMFA and met and married my dad, who hadn't married or had kids yet.

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20 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

In general I would agree with you, but you have to remember that Daniel is already about four times smarter and more rational than both of them combined.  Tiffany is manipulating Daniel's very valid emotions to support her narrative of the day, because then she can blame the decision on Daniel. “Oh honey, I wanted to stay, but Daniel was miserable!”  Or, conversely, she pressures Daniel to want to stay or at the very least feel guilty about wanting to leave because of his highly inappropriate, premature attachment to Ronald as a father figure, a false dynamic that she has encouraged from day one.  Also, most parents relocate due to a work reassignment/job change, not international ass chasing.  Neither of these losers work and Daniel clearly isn't in school, so he basically has nothing to do other than sit around and watch them make eyes at each other like horny teenagers.  And I don’t think “I wish we could go back home where we had actual playgrounds and didn’t have to live behind barbed wire” is an unreasonable or bratty feeling to have.  On top of everything, he went from living with his grandma and Tiffany’s adorable baby sister who he clearly adores to some deadbeat, dead-eyed rando who cheerfully tells him that he’s probably going to get abducted. 

So no, I don’t think Daniel is the brat in this situation. Fuck Tiffany for her negligence and for prioritizing dick over her children.

I agree 100%. With military families - and really most mature adults who move abroad due to their employment - there are plans for housing, employment, and children’s schooling. There is a structure there. Tiffany had zero plans for anything other than desperately chasing after a man she barely knew who’d done a stint in rehab, a man who is unemployed and living off his mother, a man whom she really had no clue what kind of step dad he’d be to her son.  And now that she’s knocked up and realizes that she cannot give birth in a posh birthing suite like Diana, Princess of Wales or HRH The Duchess of Cambridge in the vaunted Lindo wing of St. Mary’s hospital, she will use her son’s (totally justified) unhappiness as the excuse to go back to the US. 

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On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 1:22 PM, alegtostandon said:

Reason I brought this up is I wonder why Summet waited so long to marry.  Jenny really feels victimized by his family & in-laws, using the verbiage "he was ripped from my arms".  All I envision were the two of them clinging to each other while his family members were pulling them apart. 

If I remember correctly Sumit said that his parents arranged the marriage after Jenny's first visit to India (sorry if that isn't correct but that's what I remember him saying).  They strongly disapproved of his relationship with Jenny and forbade him to be in contact with her again.

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7 hours ago, RealReality said:

Tiffany's endgame is to get Ronald into the US.  I find that annoying for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that she is gambling with a child's life.  

No way does she not have that baby in the hopes that it'll get Ronald here permanently.

I suspect she is on some sort of government support*, so she may not be as concerned about having a baby in the US which has these social nets, but she might be harder pressed in s. Africa - which may not have the same social programs. 

* - she may make good money as a makeup artist, but I have my doubts.  And she has a child to support.  Most people I know who are MA do so as a side hustle.  

For sure, I also thought their baby was conceived purely for legal purposes. And she is definitely trying to get Ronald to the US. And no, she does not look like she is rolling in money. Pregnant women can easily obtain Medicaid if their income is low enough. She is DEFINITELY delivering that baby in the US

Edited by Lily247
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On 10/1/2019 at 10:11 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Yes, multi generational living is a big thing, the wife/DIL then helps with the household duties for her mother in law.

Frankly I would have lost my mind if I had to do that with my MIL, I shudder at the thought!

It's my understanding that the DIL is low man on the totem pole and is often mistreated.

My MIL wasn't so bad, but I would have gone nuts, too.

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I kept thinking there have got to be lots of loser criminal addicted Bro types in the US that Tiffany could have met and “saved”. Why didn’t she just do that so she wouldn’t have to deal with importing a criminal? How was Ronald any different? Then I thought it must have been the accent. Then I remembered the time I was in a bar and a dude started hitting on me and had an Irish accent, claimed to be from Ireland.  Come to find out he was local, not Irish, and was faking the accent.  Obviously Tiffany didn’t look hard enough for her type stateside. 

Also if you fake an Irish accent to try to get with someone and it actually works, do you continue the fake accent through the entire relationship? That might have worked for one of the desperate types on this show lol. 

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Wonder if this was Tiffany's long con all along:  Knowing that Ronald wouldn't be allowed entry into the U.S., she moves there, gets married, gets pregnant, "decides" to deliver the baby in the U.S., making sure that the only affordable maternity care is filmed to show just why.....oooh, it's so horrible, for the baby's sake, I must travel back to the U.S.

Cue more camera footage of razor wires and rusty playground equipment, and poor Daniel, who misses the U.S.

Then, her baby is born a U.S. citizen.  Ronald has been "working" at the wellness center, so they believe the U.S. government will show leniency on the poor guy working so hard to keep his family together.  Wife, new baby, and stepson are all U.S. citizens.....please, Mr./Ms. INS officer, won't you let my husband/baby's daddy/Daniel's stepdad in?????

Edited by Sterling
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5 hours ago, RoxiP said:

If I remember correctly Sumit said that his parents arranged the marriage after Jenny's first visit to India (sorry if that isn't correct but that's what I remember him saying).  They strongly disapproved of his relationship with Jenny and forbade him to be in contact with her again.

That is correct. I don’t get how Sumit thinks he gave his marriage a chance, when he was romancing Jenny the whole time.  The little weasel probably believed he could have both ladies.  This is not a romantic tragedy. Sumit is just another guy who cheated on his wife.

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On 9/30/2019 at 9:29 PM, Frozendiva said:

I am still trying to figure out Aladin's deal - he came across as thoughtful, intelligent, supportive, does not want to come between Laura and her son. He seems kinda genuine and maybe he really is too good to be true. He's going through a lot to get a Green Card or whatever he wants. Have never seen him being slimy or anything.

Laura looked a bit silly in her princess dress - which was more suitable for a younger woman. Liam came dressed out of Westworld.

Tiffany, maybe instead of being gung-ho to pack up and move to South Africa, maybe you should have spent 6 months living there first. You also got knocked up five minutes after you landed. Your husband is fresh from rehab, has a criminal record, no good job, your son hates living where he is, you have no prospects for a job right now, and now you want to go back to the States? Are you going to fly to South Africa for a few months a year to see your husband? Do you have the ability to hire expensive lawyers to see if you can get him on some sort of visa to the US? So much stupidity.

Karine, Paul has changed for all of five minutes. Here's hoping that being a new daddy will spark some growth and change in him. You are just putting off the inevitable divorce. He was also on good behavior because his mom was visiting. The hair smelling comment was a bit weird. At least Karine was not like Pao and let her child's grandma near him. She was relieved that Paul had to behave. He needs to find a job, learn the language and grow up. Karine, you too can probably go back to work in a few months.

Sumit the louse/conman whatever he is - when folks get caught in their lies, they sure seem to pick up bad habits. If Jenny knew about his wife and kept it a secret for the show, both are turds. Were they hoping to make a buck off this? If she genuinely did not know - she couldn't have looked him up online? Gotten to know some of his friends to check out his story? He started off as a lie - when would he have started to tell the truth? Could he not have said 'no' to marrying his arranged bride? How long could he keep up the wife and possible kids and side piece? He doesn't seem that wealthy. You show some respect to your so-called love and you would not be okay with her moving all the way to India when you are hiding a wife. Both women become your victims. You are your own homewrecker, Sumit.

I don't know the Indian culture, but it seems absurd that the family can basically kidnap him. And then let him go to see Jenny for a day to talk to her. Surprised there wasn't someone with him watching his every move.  He is a grown man. Yes, he should be accountable for his behavior. His shame is on himself.  Stand up to your parents, refuse to get married, whatever. Get a job and save money to move to England or wherever and start a life there. Jenny, go home, sleep on your daughter's couch for a few months, and drop Sumit from your phone and social media. Maybe then he will decide to do something or he will sullenly go back to his wifey and possible family.

Always love reading your comments, they always make such good sense!

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On 10/1/2019 at 7:11 AM, OFDgal said:

I thought it looked like he took a piece of her hair between his fingers when he was saying good-bye and put it in his pocket.

That is what I thought I saw! he reached in and snatched some of her hair before he shut the car door!

Mother pole will be bald if he keeps snatching her hair, good thing they live far apart!

Edited by mittsigirl
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1 hour ago, Sterling said:

Then, her baby is born a U.S. citizen.  Ronald has been "working" at the wellness center, so they believe the U.S. government will show leniency on the poor guy working so hard to keep his family together.  Wife, new baby, and stepson are all U.S. citizens.....please, Mr./Ms. INS officer, won't you let my husband/baby's daddy/Daniel's stepdad in?????

Does Tiffany understand what "work" he is doing? Does Ronald? Does she understand how things work for addict felons in the US, even with job credentials?


I mean, sure, there are functional alcoholics that fuck up big time, go to rehab, are on FMLA/Short-term disability, clean up their act and go back to their old careers.

That is not Ronald, he will have a hard time renting an apartment even with a job and the jobs that are available to him without some inside connection/under the table arrangement are vanishingly small to come by. His options are like dishwasher at a family business and hope he works his way up to below market wage manager after building a LOT of trust and keeping on the straight and narrow with a child and a wife and a shitty job.

I'm almost certain he is doing some transitional work in the facility, which is common for people that can't just rejoin the workforce because of their history. He, professionally, is working towards being trusted to work as as maybe a maintenance assistant, as long as he doesn't handle any money. 

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1 hour ago, Sterling said:

Wonder if this was Tiffany's long con all along:  Knowing that Ronald wouldn't be allowed entry into the U.S., she moves there, gets married, gets pregnant, "decides" to deliver the baby in the U.S., making sure that the only affordable maternity care is filmed to show just why.....oooh, it's so horrible, for the baby's sake, I must travel back to the U.S.

Cue more camera footage of razor wires and rusty playground equipment, and poor Daniel, who misses the U.S.

Then, her baby is born a U.S. citizen.  Ronald has been "working" at the wellness center, so they believe the U.S. government will show leniency on the poor guy working so hard to keep his family together.  Wife, new baby, and stepson are all U.S. citizens.....please, Mr./Ms. INS officer, won't you let my husband/baby's daddy/Daniel's stepdad in?????

Since she's a naturalized US citizen, Tiffany's baby will be a US citizen no matter where he/she is born. This is how my children have dual citizenship between England and the US. It's part of the section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). There's paperwork to fill out, but they basically only have to be "registered", they don't have to apply for US citizenship. Tiffany would simply need to provide a US address upon registration. 

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8 hours ago, Spike said:

I view gambling as spending for entertainment and assume that I am going to lose every penny.  If you do that and set a limit it can be fun in small doses.  

This is how I see it. When I go on road trips I have a tradition of getting scratchers. I usually end up with enough to pay for the tickets and nothing else. And with casinos, I play penny slots for the entertainment and free drinks. I may be out $100 at the end of the night but I had $100 of entertainment and drinks so I'm okay with the loss. It's the only way to keep it under control for some people, because I do feel that dopamine rush when I get a scratcher. Part of it is just "I'm on vacation" mode, but there's definitely that "ooh what if I win?" thought too.

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5 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

Also if you fake an Irish accent to try to get with someone and it actually works, do you continue the fake accent through the entire relationship?

I think guys that do that tend to sneak out at 3am and are never heard from again.

3 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

Can anyone tell me how many days Laura's wedding is? I don't think she's mentioned it. 2? 4?

It was three.  The first night is casual, lots of dancing and music.  Nights 2 and three are more formal.  Laura still bitched on night 2 when she was dressed as a Jowly Christmas Tree and sat alone on a couch.  Well that is how they do it so shut it.

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1 hour ago, John M said:

Does Tiffany understand what "work" he is doing? Does Ronald? Does she understand how things work for addict felons in the US, even with job credentials?


I mean, sure, there are functional alcoholics that fuck up big time, go to rehab, are on FMLA/Short-term disability, clean up their act and go back to their old careers.

That is not Ronald, he will have a hard time renting an apartment even with a job and the jobs that are available to him without some inside connection/under the table arrangement are vanishingly small to come by. His options are like dishwasher at a family business and hope he works his way up to below market wage manager after building a LOT of trust and keeping on the straight and narrow with a child and a wife and a shitty job.

I'm almost certain he is doing some transitional work in the facility, which is common for people that can't just rejoin the workforce because of their history. He, professionally, is working towards being trusted to work as as maybe a maintenance assistant, as long as he doesn't handle any money. 

That's the rub.  No employer would want a guy with Ronald's history around financially sensitive documents, documents with banking information or whatever the SA equivalent is of an SSN. 

For so many higher level positions even if you don't directly work with that information you have access to it and so it's a liability to hire someone like Ronald to even be around that type of data. 

I think youre right in that Ronald's best chance would be to work for a small company.  Maybe after a few years he could get a great recommendation and show that he can be trusted enough for someone to take a chance on him, but it's hard because he didn't just make a youthful mistake, he was a full on adult when he did all this.  

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3 minutes ago, RealReality said:

That's the rub.  No employer would want a guy with Ronald's history around financially sensitive documents, documents with banking information or whatever the SA equivalent is of an SSN. 

For so many higher level positions even if you don't directly work with that information you have access to it and so it's a liability to hire someone like Ronald to even be around that type of data. 

I think youre right in that Ronald's best chance would be to work for a small company.  Maybe after a few years he could get a great recommendation and show that he can be trusted enough for someone to take a chance on him, but it's hard because he didn't just make a youthful mistake, he was a full on adult when he did all this.  

He could work on the ground crew at a golf course or operate a snow plow I suppose.

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1 minute ago, Spike said:

He could work on the ground crew at a golf course or operate a snow plow I suppose.

He might be okay with something like that in America.  But Ronald gives me that air of superiority that makes me think that he thinks he might be too good for such a job long term.  

The fact that he would have to settle for a job that is beneath him could make him frustrated and angry.  

But, OTOH since these jobs are skilled he might be okay with it.  I don't understand golf courses or snow, but both jobs sound hard to me.  

Maybe he could be a truck driver....I know a handyman named Andrei who has a spare truck......

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On 10/1/2019 at 8:10 PM, Frozendiva said:

You probably start off small and then you win a little here and there. It covers your cost of playing and then the wins start to lessen. You always think the next game or the next slot machine will be the winner. And you lose, and lose, and lose. The casino wins.

I buy an occasional lottery ticket and I have occasionally gone to a casino with my $25 for the night.  I had to go across a casino every day when I went to a conference in Vegas. The smoke or perfume smell just about got me every single time I had to pass through (conveniently when you got off the elevator, the casino was right beside you and you had to go through it to get to the convention area or the shops/restaurants attached to the hotel).

There are psychological studies that show that intermittent reinforcement is actually the most powerful type of reinforcement in conditioning. In other words, the fact there might be a reward is actually more reinforcing than when there's a guaranteed reward. People are weird. Gambling is definitely an intermittent reinforcement kind of activity - it keeps hope alive while usually kicking your ass. I believe I read that is one of the reasons that for certain personalities, it is so addictive. 

Edited by NoWhammies
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1 hour ago, NoWhammies said:

There are psychological studies that show that intermittent reinforcement is actually the most powerful type of reinforcement in conditioning. In other words, the fact there might be a reward is actually more reinforcing than when there's a guaranteed reward. People are weird. Gambling is definitely an intermittent reinforcement kind of activity - it keeps hope alive while usually kicking your ass. I believe I read that is one of the reasons that for certain personalities, it is so addictive. 

This.  The way my psych professor explained it is, even though it is the exact same physical action, you don't get the same rush from feeding dollars in to the change machine because it is a guaranteed outcome (unless the machine is broken, obviously.)  Also, if you knew that every time you put money in the vending machine it ate it and you got nothing, you would stop putting money in.  It is the randomness of possibly giving you more than you put in that makes you keep trying.

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Another thing that’s been annoying me about Tiffany (or it can also apply to a lot of desperate women) why is she soo dead set on Ronald being this important “father” figure to Daniel?  Millions of Children grow up just fine without a Father In all sorts of different situations, the dad passes away,is in prison, a drug addict or just simply wants nothing to do with the kid.  All women want the guy to be involved but that sadly doesn’t always happen,It seems like a worse gamble of adding in a guy with issues Iike Ronald, compared to having no male figure in his life at all. 

At least give the guy a few years of getting his shit together before getting your kid attached to them. 

Kids don’t easily understand the scientific difference of a  biological father compared to a guy you're dating ,All they know in that moment is another father leaving.

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11 hours ago, RoxiP said:

If I remember correctly Sumit said that his parents arranged the marriage after Jenny's first visit to India (sorry if that isn't correct but that's what I remember him saying).  They strongly disapproved of his relationship with Jenny and forbade him to be in contact with her again.

That's what I understood also.  What I was basically saying (or thinking out loud)  is that my doctor told me arranged marriages are usually set when they are kids and the marriage happens between the ages of 18-29.  He did not meet his arranged wife until right before the marriage,  but there was an agreement to allow both to finish medical school before marrying. 

I just envisioned, after Family Sumit meeting Jenny, Mother Sumit calling her aunts cousins friends neighbor saying "you know that daughter you can't find a husband for? Well...."  

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On 9/30/2019 at 11:29 PM, Frozendiva said:

Sumit the louse/conman whatever he is - when folks get caught in their lies, they sure seem to pick up bad habits. If Jenny knew about his wife and kept it a secret for the show, both are turds. Were they hoping to make a buck off this? If she genuinely did not know - she couldn't have looked him up online? Gotten to know some of his friends to check out his story?

You bring up a very good point! If Jenny and Sumit’s relationship was primarily Facebook-based, how would she have missed him being tagged in wedding photos or people posting congratulatory messages on his profile when he got married?

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7 hours ago, Hellohappylife said:

Another thing that’s been annoying me about Tiffany (or it can also apply to a lot of desperate women) why is she soo dead set on Ronald being this important “father” figure to Daniel?  Millions of Children grow up just fine without a Father In all sorts of different situations, the dad passes away,is in prison, a drug addict or just simply wants nothing to do with the kid.  All women want the guy to be involved but that sadly doesn’t always happen,It seems like a worse gamble of adding in a guy with issues Iike Ronald, compared to having no male figure in his life at all. 

At least give the guy a few years of getting his shit together before getting your kid attached to them. 

Kids don’t easily understand the scientific difference of a  biological father compared to a guy you're dating ,All they know in that moment is another father leaving.

Daniels situation is somehow even worse because Tiffany has made him so thirsty for a father in his life and he is a young kid who wants to love and be loved.  

Because of this he has come to love Ronald because he is that kid.  And now he has to leave a father figure who was was thrust into his life but one he likes.  

At this point Tiffany can't make a decision that doesn't hurt Daniel.  She stays there but he hates SA and doesn't want to be there.  She leaves and he misses this guy he has come to like and look to as a father figure -- as he has been encouraged to do.  

No matter what though, Ronald should not be allowed to become a resident of this country or get any visa that allows him to stay.  I feel bad for Daniel, but we didn't put him in this shitty position....Tiffany did.  

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I also think it was wrong for Tiffany to put the onus of whether to leave or stay on Daniel...kids internalize so much and if eventually Tiffany and Ronald break up because of distance Daniel is likely to take some of the responsibility for that because (as shown on television) he was the deciding factor in returning to the United States.  Tiffany has made some awesome parental decisions!

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7 minutes ago, RoxiP said:

I also think it was wrong for Tiffany to put the onus of whether to leave or stay on Daniel...kids internalize so much and if eventually Tiffany and Ronald break up because of distance Daniel is likely to take some of the responsibility for that because (as shown on television) he was the deciding factor in returning to the United States.  Tiffany has made some awesome parental decisions!

Tiffany did not go back to the States because of Daniel. She went back because her Medicaid would cover the delivery. She is a lazy idiot and I hope her kids have better decision making skills. 

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13 hours ago, John M said:

His options are like dishwasher at a family business and hope he works his way up to below market wage manager after building a LOT of trust and keeping on the straight and narrow with a child and a wife and a shitty job.

Those options make me want to relapse and I'm not even an addict.

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11 hours ago, NoWhammies said:

There are psychological studies that show that intermittent reinforcement is actually the most powerful type of reinforcement in conditioning. In other words, the fact there might be a reward is actually more reinforcing than when there's a guaranteed reward. People are weird. Gambling is definitely an intermittent reinforcement kind of activity - it keeps hope alive while usually kicking your ass. I believe I read that is one of the reasons that for certain personalities, it is so addictive. 

That is true. Plus there is the double whammy of intermittent reinforcement  on a variable reward schedule.

I do play the slot machines, but I always feel a bit like one of those pecking pigeons from a 1950s psychology learning experiment when I do.  😉

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14 hours ago, Adeejay said:

That is correct. I don’t get how Sumit thinks he gave his marriage a chance, when he was romancing Jenny the whole time.  The little weasel probably believed he could have both ladies.  This is not a romantic tragedy. Sumit is just another guy who cheated on his wife.

That was Laura's question, too.  And I have changed my mind about her; I no longer think she knew that he was married when she arrived in India.  I think Some Meat was the (only) mastermind of this plot, whatever it is.  I think maybe your theory that he thought he could have both ladies is as likely as anything else, but I can't imagine that he could believe he could sustain the con over the long term.  He would have to spend more time with his wife and family, I would think, and how could he explain to Laura why they never could get married.  Was he planning to just disappear to the US at some point?  He is the most inept cheating husband I've ever heard of.

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47 minutes ago, Jel said:

That is true. Plus there is the double whammy of intermittent reinforcement  on a variable reward schedule.

I do play the slot machines, but I always feel a bit like one of those pecking pigeons from a 1950s psychology learning experiment when I do.  😉

When I have been in Las Vegas, I usually don't play anything over the quarter slots and I allow myself a certain amount per night for gambling. I look at it as "entertainment" money, not as something to make money on. The last time was out there, I had a machine that would do some kind of reset and I kept winning. Nothing big, about $100. I took it and set it aside. 

I do love to play Keno. Its the one game I did win $500 on. Again, I took the cash and put it away. It came home with me. I had my "allowance" already. 

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Oh man this trainwreck just keeps on derailing over and over and I'm here for it!

So, Tiffany... what did she do in the US? She doesn't seem concerned at all to, you know, get a job in SA. I guess she just flew over to get knocked up? I bet you anything Ronald ends up in the US. He's white of course. I really, really hate how Tiffany has made Ronald "dad." I mean poor Daniel has spent what, a couple months tops with him and he's dad? really? Stop being a single mom stereotype Tiffany. can well tell the US government we don't want her back? Just send Daniel?

Jenny is a fool. How she raised a seemingly smart, astute daughter with a kick ass wife I'll never know. Maybe the girl's dad was awesome.

Mother Paul seems so sweet but clearly has been an enabler. If they come to the US she'll be supporting them all. We've seen that Karine doesn't want to do so much as wash a dish and tell Paul he yells and threaten divorce so she will be shiftless. Her stank attitude prior to the birth of the baby (she's actually been bearable since then) is ridiculous. Honey, what exactly do you offer Paul? You live in squalor, you seem to have no skills, you two can't even communicate without Google translate. He could easily bail and leave you with a kid. Paul sucks too for all the reasons on this forum, but honestly- they are pretty equal in suckage. Not sure why she seems to get a pass. Neither has put any effort into a relationship other than him moving. They don't even bother learning the other's language.

I will never understand Aladin. He needs his own spinoff podcast or something. I mean what is in this for him? He's hot, young, seemingly intelligent, family support, etc. If his sole purpose is "get to America" he needs to track himself an Avery from Before the 90 Days. What is it with these 50+ year old women trying to convince, well, ANYONE they're gonna be birthin babies? Come on man. But I need to know- WHY IS HE DOING THIS?

I think my default belief is the non-americans, for the most part, do this to get to America (with the exception of say Tom from Before the 90 days), and for $$. the funny part is most of the people on this show don't have a pot to piss in and everyone involved ends up worse off financially than before.

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2 hours ago, RoxiP said:

I also think it was wrong for Tiffany to put the onus of whether to leave or stay on Daniel...kids internalize so much and if eventually Tiffany and Ronald break up because of distance Daniel is likely to take some of the responsibility for that because (as shown on television) he was the deciding factor in returning to the United States.  Tiffany has made some awesome parental decisions!

I feel so bad for Daniel. She dangled a "Dad" in front of him and that kid was so excited to have one and now this. I just don't understand why they have to make the guy "dad" right away and confuse the poor kids. Like Nicole does with Mae. I get that maybe there isn't a father in the picture but don't force it on the kids. 

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