S02.E02: Grand Canyon

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Eddie manages to keep Theo distracted in the midst of trying to track down Katherine, while Maggie realizes her mother’s surprise move to Boston might not be just for her. Meanwhile, Regina struggles with accepting Andrew’s ideas about the restaurant, and PJ makes a shocking confession to Rome.

Airing Thursday, October 3, 2019.

 

[sking24450]

Really didn't like this episode.

Happy Katherine was back but this show is not really committed to the cheating storyline and the actual fallout. They don't seem to be committed to ANY storyline just characters acting and rarely reacting in a realistic manner over a sustained period of time.

[Lady Calypso]

Man, it must suck for Grace Park to play a character who is kind of forced to stick in this friend group, and stay with Eddie, even if it makes no logical sense for her to want to work things out with him right now. All because there are no other characters she can realistically befriend in order to not lose her status as a series regular. 

Of course Katherine asking Eddie to stay makes no sense. Because, realistically, even if they did try to work things out, the baby stuff makes it impossible AND Eddie would have had to move out.

Maybe Barbara's comment about Charlie having Jon's eyes is actual foreshadowing to the real paternity. I could only hope. That might be the only thing that could realistically help bring Katherine/Eddie together, at least better than with Baby Charlie involved. 

That being said, even with the shitty storyline, Grace Park and David Giuntoli are bringing it. At least Katherine isn't forgiving him that easily. But really, this storyline makes so little sense because Katherine's being forced to be buddy-buddy with Eddie, just due to the fact that they never established Katherine to be part of the group so she'd have someone else to interact with. I'm fine with Katherine/Eddie working things out. I just don't think it can realistically happen like this.

So, Maggie's mom is banging Jason Ritter. You go, Patricia! Jason Ritter is completely too charming for this show. 

Oh, unless Patricia isn't banging Jason Ritter. Maybe the real plot twist is that Jason Ritter's character is Maggie's brother! That would be hilarious. But nah, Patricia is probably banging him, which is totally fine...but it is totally freaking Maggie out.

So...I didn't even process PJ's slip up until Rome pointed it out. But at least that's out in the open. And now, I'm less certain that there will be the PJ is Jon's son twist.

So, Regina was being stubborn about listening to Andrew...until she actually decided to. Not that he isn't shady in his own way, but I'm always happy when one of our main characters get a dose of reality when they don't get their way. 

[break21]

I think Jon killed himself to get away from all of these characters.  I can't stand any of them.

[SimoneS]

I watched to see what would happen next with Katherine. I threw up in my mouth and changed the channel when she decided to stick with that creep. I regret giving this pile of shit show even a minute of my time. The showrunner is obviously disconnected from reality. The show is a man's fantasy about treating women like crap and them taking it.

I am glad that Grace Park has a steady gig, but she deserves better than to be a supporting actor on a mediocre show with rubbish writing.

Edited October 4, 2019 by SimoneS

[zoey1996]

Agree.  I'm out, deleted it from my record list, and everything.

[bybrandy]

51 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, unless Patricia isn't banging Jason Ritter. Maybe the real plot twist is that Jason Ritter's character is Maggie's brother!

I think that is exactly the plot twist.  Not the one who died in the car crash but a brother she gave up for adoption before she met Maggie's dad, or whatever...   I mean, I wouldn't blame her for sleeping with Jason Ritter but I suspect that's not the story.   

How did the mom's at the school know that Katherine had taken off?  Wouldn't Eddie have told them she was on a business trip, too?  

I think Katherine can do way, way, way better than Eddie but I don't know that Charlie means they can't work it out.  It is awkward and uncomfortable but people make step kids work.  Obviously this step kid happening during their marriage makes it more emotionally charged but I could see scenarios where they could get through it... again not that I'm hoping for that because like I said Katherine deserves a Jason Ritter level of charming after putting up with Eddie and his friends.

I also thought the eye comment was telling us that Jon might really be Charlie's father.  But I don't want to get my hopes up.

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I think that is exactly the plot twist.  Not the one who died in the car crash but a brother she gave up for adoption before she met Maggie's dad, or whatever...   I mean, I wouldn't blame her for sleeping with Jason Ritter but I suspect that's not the story.   

8 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Katherine deserves a Jason Ritter level of charming after putting up with Eddie and his friends.

Oh, oh, oh! Can Katherine bang Jason Ritter's character instead? I'd be so down for THAT storyline.

[KaveDweller]

15 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I think that is exactly the plot twist.  Not the one who died in the car crash but a brother she gave up for adoption before she met Maggie's dad, or whatever...   I mean, I wouldn't blame her for sleeping with Jason Ritter but I suspect that's not the story.   

How did the mom's at the school know that Katherine had taken off?  Wouldn't Eddie have told them she was on a business trip, too?  

The moms probably didn't believe Eddie. They must have known they were separated last season.

I know this is unpopular, but I like Eddie and Katharine. I want them to work it out. Obviously the baby makes that really hard, but people in real life to get past cheating.

I'm thinking Jason Ritter is Maggie's secret brother too. This show is all about secrets. And the mother having sex with Jason Ritter isn't really that dramatic a storyline. If that's the case he'd have no reason to build a relationship with the group unless the mother is always around. If he's her brother he can become part of the group and form his own connections.

[Winston Wolfe]

1 hour ago, break21 said:

I think Jon killed himself to get away from all of these characters.  I can't stand any of them.

Well...Rome is mostly Ok....

[iwasish]

They’ll never be able to hide Charlie’s true paternity from Delilah’s other kids and everyone else. Especially if Eddie takes on a paternal role and expects Katherine to accept the kid into her home as his daughter. 

Jon’s kids will have a hard enough time if it turns out PJ is Jon’s son. Add to that, Charlie isn’t his daughter, but is Eddie’s... minds blown. 

 Delilah needs to first have a DNA test to be certain  and then tell her kids the truth. If they turn on her and Eddie? Sorry but thats the price you pay for your actions. And what about Charlie, doesn’t she deserve the truth? Why let her grow up thinking her father killed himself? Why cheat her out of having a real live father? Look at the mess PJ is... and we haven’t even been told if he is or isn’t Jon’s son. 
 

And is it Rome’s place to get into that   subject with him?

Edited October 4, 2019 by iwasish

[Bringonthedrama]

28 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

 think Katherine can do way, way, way better than Eddie but I don't know that Charlie means they can't work it out.  It is awkward and uncomfortable but people make step kids work.  Obviously this step kid happening during their marriage makes it more emotionally charged but I could see scenarios where they could get through it...

This step kid is also her son's half-sister, so she's going to have to accept the baby in their lives in some way. Katherine is angry and hurt and could certainly do better than Eddie - BUT it seems like she's not sure she wants to walk away from their marriage/family life. That's not unrealistic. My aunt was pregnant with my cousin when she found out my uncle was cheating on her. They separated. After the birth of their son, she decided to take him back. Several years later, they had a second son.  However, my uncle cheated again (with other women) after that while my aunt was focused on their two young sons. She wisely chose divorce upon finding out. I can understand why she took him back the first time: years of investment in this marriage and having a child with this man. You want to believe you can get past the betrayal, rebuild the relationship and have a happy family life.  I know she doesn't regret her choice because she has two wonderful sons and now cool grandchildren from them as well. She will acknowledge that she and her ex were unhappy for a long time before they officially divorced. 

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Man, it must suck for Grace Park to play a character who is kind of forced to stick in this friend group, and stay with Eddie, even if it makes no logical sense for her to want to work things out with him right now. All because there are no other characters she can realistically befriend in order to not lose her status as a series regular. 

Of course Katherine asking Eddie to stay makes no sense. Because, realistically, even if they did try to work things out, the baby stuff makes it impossible AND Eddie would have had to move out.

Maybe Barbara's comment about Charlie having Jon's eyes is actual foreshadowing to the real paternity. I could only hope. That might be the only thing that could realistically help bring Katherine/Eddie together, at least better than with Baby Charlie involved. 

That being said, even with the shitty storyline, Grace Park and David Giuntoli are bringing it. At least Katherine isn't forgiving him that easily. But really, this storyline makes so little sense because Katherine's being forced to be buddy-buddy with Eddie, just due to the fact that they never established Katherine to be part of the group so she'd have someone else to interact with. I'm fine with Katherine/Eddie working things out. I just don't think it can realistically happen like this.

So, Maggie's mom is banging Jason Ritter. You go, Patricia! Jason Ritter is completely too charming for this show. 

Oh, unless Patricia isn't banging Jason Ritter. Maybe the real plot twist is that Jason Ritter's character is Maggie's brother! That would be hilarious. But nah, Patricia is probably banging him, which is totally fine...but it is totally freaking Maggie out.

So...I didn't even process PJ's slip up until Rome pointed it out. But at least that's out in the open. And now, I'm less certain that there will be the PJ is Jon's son twist.

So, Regina was being stubborn about listening to Andrew...until she actually decided to. Not that he isn't shady in his own way, but I'm always happy when one of our main characters get a dose of reality when they don't get their way. 

I was disappointed I waited to watch this in real time since I was tired. What is with all the paternity issues real or implied? Can everyone just take a paternity test? It's 2019, it's easy. 😉  Is Charlie Jon's, please let it be, wont make Eddie better but at least Katherine in her "almost breakdown" moment, might have a chance. She needs a psychologist to talk to who is not involved and more than Maggie exist. PJ being Jon's serves no purpose and why doesn't anyone think that maybe PJ could use the money? College, art school, etc. Why cut him out?

A long lost brother, believe me I can see it, but no. There is no reason to hide that and she seemed very comfortable with him like she kept in touch over the years. The soap opera scripts dont' have to stay ALL "soap opera" Come on Nash, it can be much better. These scripts actually make suicide/cancer not serious and you can do both. Way back shows that were comedy dealt with serious issues, All in the Family for those old enough was like that. Great writing can cover a multitude of things but if you just want fluff, make it good fluff.

[Brian Cronin]

Does Nash know that he didn't have to give Maggie breast cancer? There are all sorts of cancers out there that have actual "remissions," which breast cancer does not. He could even choose to be vague and not tell us what cancer Maggie has explicitly (okay, that'd be hard, but you know what I mean. Don't pick a disease to give a character if you have no interest in actually having the character have that actual disease). 

It really seems like Maggie has breast cancer solely so she and Gary could meet in a breast cancer support group and it seems like the sole purpose of THAT was, "Ha! He's a guy who has breast cancer!" The show has such good actors with good chemistry and if he just avoided being a hack with the plot 90% of the time, the show could really be good. 

[snarkylady]

What on earth was the purpose of bringing in a so-called psychic?  If it was just to add a small dose of humor --  it's Gary who scoffs at the very idea -- then ok, I smiled but that was it.  No reason to go on and on to the extent of having a private reading for Delilah with Maggie attending in order to get the surprise of it being her brother communicating from the great beyond.  Is the show now sponsored by the Psychic Hotline?

[Lady Calypso]

26 minutes ago, snarkylady said:

What on earth was the purpose of bringing in a so-called psychic?  If it was just to add a small dose of humor --  it's Gary who scoffs at the very idea -- then ok, I smiled but that was it.  No reason to go on and on to the extent of having a private reading for Delilah with Maggie attending in order to get the surprise of it being her brother communicating from the great beyond.  Is the show now sponsored by the Psychic Hotline?

I assume part of the reason was to refer to James Roday's last well known role...but I guess also to bring it back to Maggie's dead brother. 

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I know this is unpopular, but I like Eddie and Katharine. I want them to work it out. Obviously the baby makes that really hard, but people in real life to get past cheating.

I like Katherine/Eddie better than Delilah/Eddie (again, thankful that they SEEM to be running far away from a Delilah/Eddie pairing) but Eddie should be groveling at Katherine's feet for her forgiveness. He should be doing everything in his power to try to make it up to her. Well, he obviously can't make it up to her completely, but he's the one who needs to put in the effort.

[Winston Wolfe]

Since this show finished fairly strong in the final two or so episodes of last season (and I really want to like it) I came back for Season 2. But another couple of episodes like this and I'm out.

As another poster noted, when a show-runner or head writer becomes such a focal point of conversation (unless it's someone iconic like Dick Wolf) there's a real problem going on. The Good Place is one of my favorite shows ever and it takes me three minutes to remember Show-runner Mike Schur's name. Probably the way it should be.

There's just so much talent on this show - it could be light years better than it is. Grace Park is killing it - her face betrays the toll this situation is taking on her. Btw, when Katherine asked Eddie "what did she have?" (regarding the gender of Delilah's baby) did anyone else initially think she meant "what does Delilah have that I don't?"

In other news, either separately or together Maggie and Gary are one of the most annoying television couples ever.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Winston Wolfe

[nexxie]

10 hours ago, break21 said:

I think Jon killed himself to get away from all of these characters.  I can't stand any of them.

That cracked me up - but somehow I still enjoy the show. In for another season!

[bybrandy]

3 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

There are all sorts of cancers out there that have actual "remissions," which breast cancer does not.

There are loads of other cancers but I like that Gary had breast cancer because breast cancer is a thing in men and many, many men don't know it is a thing men get and highlighting that it is a possibility is a good thing.   

I don't understand your assertion that breast cancer does not have remission.   After treatment of cancer a lack of cancer is a remission and that is true in breast cancer and that would be the term used for years if the breast cancer does not come back.  Localized breast cancer goes inot remission.   Metastatic breast cancer (for which their is no cure) also has periodic remissions where no cancer is detectable despite the fact that treatment will need to remain ongoing.

I don't think, though, that Maggie has mets because if she did she wouldn't be done with treatment she'd just have moved on to a maintenance phase. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Was anyone else annoyed that Whisky man has to swoop in and save the restaurant? You can't have women start up a successful business by themselves! You need a man to tell them how to do it. Not only was Whisky man right about everything, Regina was portrayed as this completely unreasonable woman for initially not being receptive to his helpful advice. But luckily, he mansplained things to her and she was set straight. Delilah, being the good woman that she is, listened to him right away and was rewarded with take-out and someone to wipe the food off of her face.

What does Delilah do at the restaurant anyway? I mean besides leave her crying baby in the restaurant with Gary to annoy all of the customers while she goes in the back to wait for Regina to show up and give her her daily dose of validation that she's a great mom and person. Which she does during the busy brunch rush as if Regina doesn't have enough to do. You'd think she could lend a helping hand or at least keep the baby out of the way instead of create more work and chaos for people.

Gary was a completely insufferable prick this episode and I say that as someone who agrees with him on psychics. Just shut up, Gary. He keeps on and on even though everyone around him clearly wants to duct tape his mouth shut. I kind of wish the psychic had had some bad news about Gary's future for him to chew on. What ever happened to his dog by the way? Gary's dog is the best thing about Gary.

I don't mind if Eddie and Katherine stay together. Katherine is one of the best characters and she doesn't have any real relationships with any of the other characters, so it's the only way to keep her. However, she already gave Eddie a second chance after she found out he cheated so it is obnoxious that he gets a third chance after it turns out he's a father again.

Now we have not only the mystery of PJ's bio daddy, if it is a mystery, but also the mystery of Maggie's mom and her companion/friend. Not really caring too much about either.

[politichick]

Also, does anyone besides Regina, Katherine and Maggie actually work?

[tennisgurl]

There was, as always, tons going on, but I just couldn't get over Gary trying on random peoples coats. Like, who does that?! I would have loved to see how the conversation went with the gu who he left his keys in his pocket went. "Excuse me, my keys are in your coat...no I didnt mistake it for my coat I just tried it on because I liked it...I mean yeah its messed up to try on someones elses property, but you see, I happen to be the quirky/funny one..."

In general I thought that Gary was being a dick all episode, especially about the psychic. I am pretty skeptical in nature about that kind of thing, but I wouldn't just start being a dick to my friends friend because I found out that they were a psychic. And then continue being a dick, even if it clearly means something to my friend and girlfriend, especially under the "protecting poor fragile Delilah" banner. 

Maybe Maggie's mom and dad are actually splitting because she has another kid she never told him about? Kind of a parallel to Charlie? Or she was the one having the affair? You dont hire John Ritter just for a small role, there has to be some Big Reveal. 

Katherine really deserves better, a better husband and better "friends" than this people who clearly dont give a rats ass about her, but damn it Grace and David just sell the crap out of their troubles and their love that they lost but still have buried deep down. 

Delilah sure is lucky she has all of these people willing to drop everything and help her all of the time, even during rush hour in her friends new restaurant. Does Delilah actually do anything at the restaurant besides carry her crying baby around being mopey? Everyone she knows is either obsessed with helping her, or are super over the top awful to her so that we feel bad for her. Maybe dont call your friend who is super busy in the kitchen of her new restaurant during a rush whining about not remembering a song? She just always looks like she is wilting. 

CJs not Jon father is still an asshole and gives off real violent vibes. He started cracking his knuckles when he thought his wife told Delilah about Jon, and as much as he says he doesent want CJ to know he isnt his bio dad, he doesent even seem to like him very much. Also, who says no to half a million dollars?! 

[ams1001]

12 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I also thought the eye comment was telling us that Jon might really be Charlie's father.  But I don't want to get my hopes up.

Has any of his friends even mentioned that Eddie maybe should be asking for a paternity test?

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I'm thinking Jason Ritter is Maggie's secret brother too. This show is all about secrets. And the mother having sex with Jason Ritter isn't really that dramatic a storyline. If that's the case he'd have no reason to build a relationship with the group unless the mother is always around. If he's her brother he can become part of the group and form his own connections.

So then the question is...did he know who Maggie was when he started talking to her at the bar?

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

 Btw, when Katherine asked Eddie "what did she have?" (regarding the gender of Delilah's baby) did anyone else initially think she meant "what does Delilah have that I don't?"

Yes! I felt so sad for her in that moment. I was also wondering, "is this really a conversation you want to start when your young son is in the house?"

[HazelEyes4325]

Well, it looks like the Beatification of St. Delilah is still in effect.  Man, everything with her was so....eye-rolly!  I'm glad she now realizes that Jon was in pain and she should have asked him about it.  You know what else she should have done?  Stayed out of Eddie's pants!  Actually, it is a bit worse than that because, from what little we've seen of how that whole mess started, Delilah was the instigator of it.  But now she's forgiven herself so it's all good!  Right?  Although the fact that Charlie would cry whenever Delilah held her was amusing..I mean, that baby had better get used to that.

The thing is, the best parts of this show could survive easily, and probably be improved, if Delilah weren't part of it.  All this stuff with Eddie and Katherine?  It actually doesn't need a baby--it could have all happened if Eddie had taken up with anyone and Katherine found out about the affair.

Speaking of which, I have only a slightly smaller lack of confidence that Nash will handle that story line appropriately than I do about the Rome and Regina baby drama.  And the only reason that gaping lack is slightly smaller is that I think there is more of a demand from the audience to see Eddie and Katherine's reconciliation (or not) story than they are to see Rome and Regina's baby story.

I have to echo @Lady Calypso that David Giuntoli and Grace Park are really excelling here.  It's just too bad that they are stuck with all the other crap in this show as they both deserve much better.  I know that Katherine is now going to be expected to be part of the friend group, which is so beyond unbelievable.  I mean, she's perfectly within her rights to say, "I don't want to take you away from your friends, but I do need to have some space from them for a while."  Or, instead of friends, just Delilah.  She *cannot* be expected to be buddy buddy with the woman who slept with her husband and supposedly had his baby.

Also, it now seems that everyone knows that Katherine knows and she left (based on the fact that Maggie was going to let Eddie stay at her apartment if/when Katherine came back), I'm thinking about Regina.  Regina is the one who told Katherine that the baby was Jon's.  Regina did not lie as she spoke what she believed was the truth, but she must realize that she did pass along Delilah's deception. So, she must realize that she's ensnared in this mess that Delilah made and did play a part, although inadvertently, in the pain that Katherine is going though.  Since she seems to want to be friends with Katherine, so I can't see how she doesn't feel some sort of something over this.

I'm not sure if we are supposed to like Andrew or not, but I like him.  And, in the restaurant business, I'm on Team Andrew.  I'm sorry, but we saw Regina having a phone conversation about a title of a song with Delilah while she was backed up in the kitchen and then, later, had an entire conversation about Delilah's delayed-onset guilt while people were waiting for their omelets.  Andrew is right...Regina doesn't seem to realize what needs to be done to successfully run a restaurant.  He also has a financial interest in the restaurant, so it isn't out of line for him to directly address the problems when Regina is not receptive.

That being said, I feel like this is one big cliche that women can't be trusted to run things and men have to come in and fix things.  Of course, that seems to be Nash's MO for this entire show.

And the only reason I'm okay with him being romantically linked with Delilah is, well, better him than some other guy that Delilah might set her eyes on.

I do hope that PJ doesn't end up being Jon's son.  For one thing, that would just give Delilah another reason to excuse her behavior.  Secondly, it's so freaking, well, lazy in the story telling department.  I  mean, what's wrong with PJ learning that the man he calls his dad is not his dad, but some guy who died on 9/11 is?  Also, I really don't care about PJ's story line.  

As for Jason Ritter, he's so charming but, again, I do not care if he's Delilah's mom's boy toy or her long lost son we'd never known about or her hair dresser.  It's just more melodrama that this show doesn't need.

I will have to say that my favorite part of the show was when they were at the psychic's and it turned out that it wasn't actually all about Delilah!  That should happen more often!

ETA: When is this episode supposed to take place?  I mean, everyone is walking around in heavy coats (and Gary is trying to steal coats?) and then Theo is running around in a swim suit while Eddie aims the hose at him.  I'm so confused...

 

23 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maybe Barbara's comment about Charlie having Jon's eyes is actual foreshadowing to the real paternity. I could only hope. That might be the only thing that could realistically help bring Katherine/Eddie together, at least better than with Baby Charlie involved. 

I took that as one of those "nice things" you say about babies when you are visiting the widow of your dead husband's friend, but I guess it could be foreshadowing.  I mean, the failed vasectomy line worked for Victor Newman in the early 80's Y&R, so why not recycle it here.  From what I've seen on social media, the Eddie/Delilah baby thing is pretty unpopular and sympathy is definitely with Katherine.  Since we are all supposed to ADORE Delilah, Nash might be trying to get himself out of the mess he created.

Edited October 4, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[Winston Wolfe]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

There was, as always, tons going on, but I just couldn't get over Gary trying on random peoples coats. Like, who does that?!

Honestly, I hope Gary gets head lice. Or scabbies. Or fleas. Anything just to get him to chill the fuck out and act like a normal person every once in a while.

36 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I know that Katherine is now going to be expected to be part of the friend group, which is so beyond unbelievable.

The healthiest thing would be for her to cultivate her own circle of new friends. With everything else Katherine is dealing with, even infrequent exposure to that crew should be enough to push her over the edge.

[Dowel Jones]

I did get a kick out of Maggie glomming on to all of the mints and spinning out the pretentious maitre-d.

[tennisgurl]

49 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I'm glad she now realizes that Jon was in pain and she should have asked him about it.  You know what else she should have done?  Stayed out of Eddie's pants! 

Yeah, whenever she starts her "Its my fault Jon is dead woe is me" chorus that is clearly designed so that people will tell her "its not your fault you did everything you could!" I just think "I mean, you were kinda too busy fucking your husbands married best friend to notice he was suicidally depressed and had this whole secret thing going on, so..."

Its really kind of funny how desperately the show has had to pivot away from what I suspect was a Delilah/Eddie romance with Eddie and Katherine splitting up when they realized how bad the audience reaction to them was. Turns out, cheating on your wife with your best friends wife/cheating on your husband with his best friend who is married to your friend is kind of a bad look, and the audience reacted accordingly. They reacted very poorly to them as a couple, and at the same time they cast Grace Park as Katherine, who has her own fandom and is a talented and likable actress, so instead of being an easily disposable villain standing in the way of Delilah and Eddie, she became very sympathetic and lovable, and to make things even more interesting, Eddie and Katherine obviously had better chemistry as actors and as characters, and much of the audience took to Katherine and Eddie/Katherine far more than Delilah or Delilah/Eddie, so they had to change their plans. If you watch the first few episodes, they seem to be REALLY leaning into Delilah and Eddie as a tragic romance and Katherine as a shrew, but that soon changed, and now Katherine is one of the more sympathetic characters on the show and Eddie is desperate to make it up to her and it seems like they will reconcile, while Delilah and Eddie hardly have scenes together that arent about the baby. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

I did get a kick out of Maggie glomming on to all of the mints and spinning out the pretentious maitre-d.

I tend to find Maggie very irritating at times, especially when she starts throwing her snarky temper tantrums that would be unacceptable for a tween, much less a grown woman who is a mental health professional.  Still, I never found Maggie more likable than I did in this moment,,,

56 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, whenever she starts her "Its my fault Jon is dead woe is me" chorus that is clearly designed so that people will tell her "its not your fault you did everything you could!" I just think "I mean, you were kinda too busy fucking your husbands married best friend to notice he was suicidally depressed and had this whole secret thing going on, so..."

Oh, but don't you know that Jon was at fault for the affair?  That he "left" Delilah by not giving her 100% of his attention and he left her with no choice but to sleep with one of his best friends? 

Honestly, whenever she starts with the "It's my fault Jon is dead" line, my response is"yup"--especially since they sort of set it up like it was.  Yeah, he had his financial woes and the survivor's guilt that came out of nowhere, but he also saw his wife and his friend at dinner the night before, so...  But now that Delilah has forgiven herself, I guess we should all just forget about it?

1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Honestly, I hope Gary gets head lice. Or scabbies. Or fleas. Anything just to get him to chill the fuck out and act like a normal person every once in a while.

I found Gary less annoying in this episode, but the coat thing was still...odd.  And wrong.  Also, he has a pretty amazing apartment for a cube dweller who never goes to work.

[snarkylady]

19 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

 I found Gary less annoying in this episode, but the coat thing was still...odd. 

I don't get the coat businessl.  Unless they eliminated part of the scene or it somehow plays into a future plot it makes no sense at all.  There is so much going on in this show surely they could have found a better story for him. 

I don't think Gary and Maggie make a good couple at all, both have their weaknesses but they are worse together than apart.  I actually don't care for Maggie at all although there is sympathy for losing her brother and suffering breast cancer.  I just don't find anything redeeming about her.  I love James Roday, so that lets me forgive some of the more egregious behavior from Gary. 

[One Imaginary Girl]

6 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Btw, when Katherine asked Eddie "what did she have?" (regarding the gender of Delilah's baby) did anyone else initially think she meant "what does Delilah have that I don't?"

Yes!  I would probably ask that first anyway.

It seemed like the problems with Gina's restaurant came out of the blue.  I know that restaurants' popularity can change, but it hasn't been open that long, has it?  I know that the show probably wants to have plots for all the characters, but they don't all have to be dialed up to 11.  I stopped watching Jane the Virgin because I felt so frazzled by all the plotlines.

[HazelEyes4325]

39 minutes ago, snarkylady said:

I don't think Gary and Maggie make a good couple at all, both have their weaknesses but they are worse together than apart.  I actually don't care for Maggie at all although there is sympathy for losing her brother and suffering breast cancer.  I just don't find anything redeeming about her.  I love James Roday, so that lets me forgive some of the more egregious behavior from Gary. 

I don't think they are a good couple either and I prefer them separately.  I do think both actors are capable of more than Nash gives them, but the characters just seem to bring out the worst in each other.  Also, in addition to my Maggie-tantrum irritation, I resent her a bit because I think, or thought in season 1, that she usurped a lot of the story telling real estate that should have gone to Gary, Eddie, and especially Rome.  The show was supposed to be about these guys who had lost their friend and, instead, we spent all this time on a woman who had never even met the guy who had died. 

That being said, I did find Gary easier to take in this episode, although the positives with Gary (trying to be supportive to Maggie and her mom) brought out the negative with Maggie (the tantrums).

13 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

It seemed like the problems with Gina's restaurant came out of the blue.  I know that restaurants' popularity can change, but it hasn't been open that long, has it?  I know that the show probably wants to have plots for all the characters, but they don't all have to be dialed up to 11.  I stopped watching Jane the Virgin because I felt so frazzled by all the plotlines.

I don't think the problems came out of the blue so much as they came to a head.  The point, at least as I saw it, is that Regina doesn't seem to have the business side of the restaurant business down.  She's great in the kitchen, but the actual running of the establishment is not her forte.  And, yeah, the restaurant has probably only been open a month or two at most.  But then again, time works in mysterious ways in this show.

[break21]

The ratings are starting to tank.   I can't even root for the people who have cancer - that is how bad the writing is.   It is such a difference from last year.    The writing is bad, the acting is bad.  It just really took a turn in this second year.  I'm starting to turn the channel every-time Maggie is on, which is a lot.  I kept hoping the psychic would bring Jon back to give this show some life.  

[HazelEyes4325]

45 minutes ago, break21 said:

The ratings are starting to tank.   I can't even root for the people who have cancer - that is how bad the writing is.   It is such a difference from last year.    The writing is bad, the acting is bad.  It just really took a turn in this second year.  I'm starting to turn the channel every-time Maggie is on, which is a lot.  I kept hoping the psychic would bring Jon back to give this show some life.  

I just checked at it got a .8 last night--down from 1.0 last week.  It's lead in, Grey's, got a 1.3, so that is not good for AMLT.  I know that ratings are a little lower on Thursdays during football season, but the fall from last week and the loss from Grey's is hard to ignore.

I actually think that, for the most part, the acting on this show is quite good.  Szostak aside, who really isn't very good, the actors seems to be doing the best that they can with the crap they are given.  Generally, I think a lot of what people say is "bad acting" is actually "bad writing" and/or "bad directing," which is the case here (again, except for Szostak...)

I do think the lack of Jon-flashbacks is taking a lot out of this show.  They didn't do a good job keeping the show focused on Jon in season 1--he sort of came and went.  However, they never came up with anything to replace what was supposed to be the central event in the show, so now the whole thing seems even less anchored.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Delilah sure is lucky she has all of these people willing to drop everything and help her all of the time, even during rush hour in her friends new restaurant. Does Delilah actually do anything at the restaurant besides carry her crying baby around being mopey? Everyone she knows is either obsessed with helping her, or are super over the top awful to her so that we feel bad for her. Maybe dont call your friend who is super busy in the kitchen of her new restaurant during a rush whining about not remembering a song? She just always looks like she is wilting. 

Delilah is supposed to be some sort of fabulous interior decorator and when Jon worked out the restaurant lease for Regina, it was with the understanding that Delilah would design the space.  Since Delilah and Regina are friends, that makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that  Delilah is still so involved in the restaurant that Andrew is discussing the ins and outs of the business with her.  I have a friend who is an interior designer who is well known locally for her talent at designing/remodeling restaurants.  She's done several that I frequent over the years.  In no case, has she ever maintained an ongoing relationship with the business.  She might drop by for a meal here and there, maybe they call her when they want to rearrange the tables or re-do the counters; but she doesn't get inside information on the business.  We've got no indication that Delilah knows anything at all about restaurant management or that she is a financial partner in the business.  The fact that she calls during the lunch rush to ask the head chef about obscure song lyrics proves she doesn't have a clue.

Edited October 4, 2019 by doodlebug

[cinsays]

8 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

 The fact that she calls during the lunch rush to ask the head chef about obscure song lyrics proves she doesn't have a clue.

Yeah, the nerve of her to call at the busiest time for such a lame question.  Uh, Delilah, you can just use google to find the song.  Just type in the phrase you do know and it will come up with it for you.  I am old and have done this a lot.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, break21 said:

The ratings are starting to tank.   I can't even root for the people who have cancer - that is how bad the writing is.   It is such a difference from last year.    The writing is bad, the acting is bad.  It just really took a turn in this second year.  I'm starting to turn the channel every-time Maggie is on, which is a lot.  I kept hoping the psychic would bring Jon back to give this show some life.  

Oh how I wish he could. ; )  I liked him and if he had something to work with, would have been great dry humor and angst combined. I wish the suicide happened to end season one. At least we'd have more of him.

 

I am pissed that they made Andrew be the "male savior" again. I understand Regina was inexperienced in some areas but they could have had a woman who ran a great business help her. But no, who would someone sleep with? That's why he is there.

I hate the Delilah "I wish I knew his pain" lines. Please, you felt distance and your way of handling it was to have an affair with his best friend and your daughters guitar teacher/crush. I want Sophie to point out that for a year or two, her concern was when she could screw Eddie and plan her exit.  For Pete's sake, Eddie knew he found his necklace too.

Obviously Jon had to die and D had to be left, but at least don't try to leave out all that could have been done if D felt neglected and not fawned over.  He was made to be so considerate, giving he guys things, Ashley, thinking of money issues, if D said, "I'm unhappy 2 years ago, I need you" in real life he might have responded.  At least have her know she was selfish too. He had emotional issues and needed help, her problem?

[break21]

Jon centered the show.   He was likeable and the other characters played off him.  The show is drifting.   I don't know how they bring him back but they need to bring him back.

[Haute Messe]

8 hours ago, bybrandy said:

There are loads of other cancers but I like that Gary had breast cancer because breast cancer is a thing in men and many, many men don't know it is a thing men get and highlighting that it is a possibility is a good thing.   

I don't understand your assertion that breast cancer does not have remission.   After treatment of cancer a lack of cancer is a remission and that is true in breast cancer and that would be the term used for years if the breast cancer does not come back.  Localized breast cancer goes inot remission.   Metastatic breast cancer (for which their is no cure) also has periodic remissions where no cancer is detectable despite the fact that treatment will need to remain ongoing.

I don't think, though, that Maggie has mets because if she did she wouldn't be done with treatment she'd just have moved on to a maintenance phase. 

This may have been mentioned before, but one of the things that bugs me is that she is bald as a billiard ball but still has eyebrows and lashes. The women I know who have gone through chemo lost hair everywhere.

6 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Has any of his friends even mentioned that Eddie maybe should be asking for a paternity test?

So then the question is...did he know who Maggie was when he started talking to her at the bar?

Didn't one of them say that they took Jon to get a vasectomy, and this is why they just assume Eddie is the father?

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, lizajane said:

Didn't one of them say that they took Jon to get a vasectomy, and this is why they just assume Eddie is the father?

Yeah, Gary did. But vasectomies can fail. 

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Delilah is supposed to be some sort of fabulous interior decorator and when Jon worked out the restaurant lease for Regina, it was with the understanding that Delilah would design the space.

Of course, we only ever saw Regina making any design decisions...

2 hours ago, cinsays said:

Yeah, the nerve of her to call at the busiest time for such a lame question.  Uh, Delilah, you can just use google to find the song.  Just type in the phrase you do know and it will come up with it for you.  I am old and have done this a lot.

Well, everyone is supposed to be at Delilah's beck and call so how dare Regina have the nerve to run a business when Delilah needed to know a song title!

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I am pissed that they made Andrew be the "male savior" again. I understand Regina was inexperienced in some areas but they could have had a woman who ran a great business help her. But no, who would someone sleep with? That's why he is there.

This doesn't bother me as much--well, it does but more like "Delilah got another guy to save her...again!"  I actually think the conflict between Andrew and Regina re: the restaurant is very realistic.   The restaurant business is a hard one and, frankly, there is more "business" than "restaurant" in it.  Regina is a chef and, from all the yumming we've seen, apparently a good one.  That doesn't mean she knows the business of running a restaurant.  Remember, her last one failed.

57 minutes ago, lizajane said:

Didn't one of them say that they took Jon to get a vasectomy, and this is why they just assume Eddie is the father?

50 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, Gary did. But vasectomies can fail. 

I'm telling you, Nash has been watching Mr. Mom! 

Vasectomies can also be reversed, not that I think that happened here, but who knows?    As I said in the 02.01 thread, this whole surprise vasectomy thing makes no sense.  I'm not sure if it would be better or worse if it turned out that the vasectomy failed.  On one hand, that would be literal soap opera drama.  On the other, it might be kind of delicious to see this all come out that Eddie is the father, have Delilah's kids turn on her, then find out that Jon is actually the father and then people are even more upset with Delilah.

Basically, I need more opportunities for Delilah-induced schadenfreude in this show...

Edited October 4, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[Winston Wolfe]

2 hours ago, cinsays said:

Yeah, the nerve of her to call at the busiest time for such a lame question.  Uh, Delilah, you can just use google to find the song.  Just type in the phrase you do know and it will come up with it for you.  I am old and have done this a lot.

Sorry, but there is absolutely no evidence that Delilah can use Google without help. 🐵

[LucyEth]

11 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Btw, when Katherine asked Eddie "what did she have?" (regarding the gender of Delilah's baby) did anyone else initially think she meant "what does Delilah have that I don't?"

That is exactly what I thought.  When he said "a girl" I thought oh that's what she meant?  

I don't understand them planting the seed that Charlie could possibly be John's and not Eddie's.  Didn't the Alpha dog of the group Gary say he drove John to get a vasectomy?  Unless a later flashback shows John not going through with it like Delilah with the abortion.  

Delilah is my least favorite character, she is just so needy and annoying.  Half the time she whispers her lines I can't even understand what she is saying.   Would love for Katherine to say she does not want to pal around with these people anymore if Eddie wants to get back with her.  He should arrange to see his daughter through legal means.  They need new friends and a new life for it to work.

[HazelEyes4325]

12 minutes ago, LucyEth said:

He should arrange to see his daughter through legal means.  They need new friends and a new life for it to work.

THIS!  Unless there are some legal agreements in place, Delilah has all the power.  All she has to do is deny Eddie is the father and--because Gary, Maggie, Rome, and Regina are all under the spell of Delilah--everyone will go along with that.  I've long said Delilah expecting Eddie to give up his own child shows the depth of her cruelty.

But, hey!  Eddie is married to a lawyer, a lawyer who is at least open to fighting for her marriage.  Also, a lawyer to whom Delilah owes, what? 18 million dollars?  (I can't remember the exact number.  Not that Delilah has an $18M bill--she doesn't seem to have a bill at all--but she'd be $18M poorer without Katherine).  

Nash has created a huge mess and, like so much going on this show, I don't have confidence that he can handle it.

[chitowngirl]

Where were Sophie and Danny hiding?

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, chitowngirl said:

Where were Sophie and Danny hiding?

I was wondering this too...it seems like this episode happened on the weekend (brunch, Theo not in school, Gary and Katherine not at work--even though Gary *never* works), so I would assume that they would be around.  I guess it is possible that they'd be off with friends, but I think it would be more likely that the novelty of their baby sister hadn't yet worn off and they'd be spending time with her.

[chitowngirl]

And if Katherine was gone for 5 days, the baby is less than a week old. Delilah can’t drive around anywhere.

[Brian Cronin]

15 hours ago, bybrandy said:

There are loads of other cancers but I like that Gary had breast cancer because breast cancer is a thing in men and many, many men don't know it is a thing men get and highlighting that it is a possibility is a good thing.   

I don't understand your assertion that breast cancer does not have remission.   After treatment of cancer a lack of cancer is a remission and that is true in breast cancer and that would be the term used for years if the breast cancer does not come back.  Localized breast cancer goes inot remission.   Metastatic breast cancer (for which their is no cure) also has periodic remissions where no cancer is detectable despite the fact that treatment will need to remain ongoing.

I don't think, though, that Maggie has mets because if she did she wouldn't be done with treatment she'd just have moved on to a maintenance phase. 

You're absolutely correct and I should have been clearer. Yes, if her breast cancer had gone metastatic, THEN she could be in remission. I meant that breast cancer in the non-metastatic stages (which is where Maggie is) doesn't do "remission." It is simply "you have cancer," "you're in treatment for cancer" or "you have no detectable cancer." Maggie is thankfully in the "you have no detectable cancer" position, which is wonderful news to get after you have had a recurrence, but it doesn't remotely resemble the depiction it has been given in the series so far and there are so many other types of cancer that would have given Nash the results he wanted that it irks me that he has stuck with a cancer that he doesn't feel like researching.

And you're right that I was probably still too irked at how Gary having breast cancer likely let them to having Maggie have breast cancer (so that they could meet at a breast cancer support group) to fairly judge Gary having breast cancer which I do agree is a nice thing to depict on TV ( a dude with breast cancer, that is). Even though I don't think they've done that much with it, but at least they're legitimately trying with Gary. That is fair. 

Maggie, though, they just consistently get so much wrong with it that I just don't get why they had her have breast cancer if they were going to get SO much wrong with it. 

[Brookside]

I used to like Regina, but this was not a good week.  Yes, it was ridiculous that Delilah called her during a busy brunch prep, but it was even more ridiculous that Regina answered and allowed Delilah to blather on.  Let it go to voicemail.  Then, even worse, during lunch she's in the office listening to Delilah, then a bit later she leaves the kitchen for a long chat.  No wonder her restaurants fail - she should be in the kitchen until service is over.  And how come her whites are always so pristine?

And none of that covers the fact that she won't listen to her major investor, who has actual experience in the restaurant business.

No wonder she can't run a successful business.

I felt so bad for Catherine at the school, but she missed an opportunity to school Eddie when she went to get more soil.

Eddie: What's wrong?  (Of course, something's "wrong" with her, meanwhile he's all chipper and innocent).

Catherine:  What's wrong?  You told Theo I saved the Grand Canyon?  That's what you came up with?  Dickhead.

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, Brookside said:

And how come her whites are always so pristine?

Cuz she's never in the kitchen!