Bessie

I guess. But cas seemed pretty gung-ho not to try even when Death made his offer to bring Sam back. Besides, if he'd come back destroyed, they could've just kevorkianed him up to heaven. Cas' stance on Sam's soul is indefensible, to me.

One of the many reasons I have trouble with the notion that Castiel is their "brother". He was the lead cheerleader for leaving Sam to eternal torment.

I suspect whatever it is, it will be played for laughs. That's my fear.

My fingers are crossed that when it does end, J2 have some input as to how it plays out.

I don't believe the actors are completely innocent in creating the level of familiarity that some fans feel. As far as I know, they all use #spnfamily in their tweets. But, some fans have no sense of boundaries and a healthy sense of entitlement, which could be mitigated by limiting the number of cons. And maybe there would be fewer repetitive, personal questions and more show-related ones. Of course I say all this as someone with no desire to attend one, so keep that in mind. ;)

I hope you're right, @Aeryn13. I've been nervous since Mary first appeared that her being lucifers vessel was the endgame for her storyline.

That works too. I just figured that John, at some point, mentioned Mary's delicious meatloaf and Dean glommed onto that and it became his memory.

That makes a lot more sense than Dean remembering his mother's cooking from the age of four or five. I bet you're right!

I never really understood the idea that somehow Dean dragged Sam back into hunting. I get that Dean might think that, but, well he's Dean. I thought he didn't talk much about Sam's re entry into the hunting world because it was a direct result of YED's actions, which would make Mary feel horrible. I also think the writers need to take care with the childhood memories they invest Dean with. He was basically a baby too when Mary died. So I hope they don't make his memories too unbelievable. Remembering her cooking is a stretch, for me, but I can chalk that up to a transference from John. And it was so bittersweet I'm willing to go along with it. I do hope there is some insight into the boys' childhood. I don't think Dean raised Sam. I think he took care of him at times and a lot more than an older sibling normally would, but all in all, I get the impression that John raised them, for better or worse. But I'd love to hear what the three winchesters think about it. I'm open to my impressions being completely wrong!

When she said that, I was cringing; it was so repulsive. And I was ready to hear her story and see what she was about. Now, I don't care. That was so far over the edge.

They weren't sex scenes. They were rape scenes. Sam was being psychologically and emotionally raped. And because these writers are so ridiculous, viewers can see that and shrug it off. That's how atrocious they are. If they can't even be bothered to follow up on rape, then don't write it. As far as I can tell, it was all about establishing Lady Toni's character and the impact of it on the lead character was not important to B/L. It was so utterly unnecessary. The physical torture was enough.

I adored Crowley's line about how he was surprised that if lucifer wanted to inhabit a second-tier rock star he expected him to go with someone like Bieber. Lucifer was such a silly, sulky teenager last season, that was a great line. Rick Springfield is bringing the menace back, so props to him for that. But, if I were tech-savvy, I'd buy the episode and edit the A and B plots in such a way as to be able to watch them separately. The plots would break away from one to the other at the most inopportune moments, that I became irritated while I was watching. Not that I'm interested in lucifer, but still. To my mind this was the payoff episode to last years's mytharc and I'm a character-driven viewer, so this was something of a letdown. Lucifer could have waited until next week. Sam was tortured physically and psychologically, yet two minutes after being rescued he's fine. There's no initial scene with him and his dead mother. Castiel and Sam don't even exchange a word. Dean and Sam have apparently become so inured to one another's torture/dying that the writers just skip right over it to present us with a scene of Dean shoving food in his face, because that's important. I did enjoy the character beats we got. I found it intriguing that Dean and Mary talked about the deal she made, but it still has never been discussed in Sam's presence. I thought Smith did an excellent job with her lines involving Dean trying to protect her. She was very gentle with him, while not losing her own agency. And I liked that Dean was gentle with her about John, while not completely sugarcoating his own issues with his childhood.

I'm unclear as to what powers Cas retains. I know he can't teleport. Maybe angel radio no longer exists either?

They do that a lot and I wish they wouldn't either. They dedicated an entire episode to Dean's negative memories of Sam and John (the one where the boys bounced around heaven; I've forgotten the title) to bring him low. But character motivation is important and their individual interpretations of a shared history have an impact on it. At least in that scene, Sam was whacked.

I'm hopeful that Dean, at least, has moved beyond some of his insecurities. He told amara in the finale that Sam needs him. I believed it.

Huh. That's too bad. I know what you mean, though. There are actors who just do not do it for me and I can't get past that to enjoy their characters. Thankfully, I don't know who this actress has played in the past. So I don't have that problem.

It's way too early for me to form an opinion on her yet. I'm reserving judgment until I know more about her story. Although, I do think that a failure to provide enough background early on was a problem with the Bella character and it's entirely possible that the writers will repeat the same mistake with Toni. Had I known all along that Bella made a deal with the devil for extremely sympathetic reasons, I would have viewed her actions in a different light. But by the time they made that reveal, it was too late. I already disliked her immensely. @SueB makes a strong case for her being a nefarious antagonist and it may be that that's where the writers are headed with her. I'm sure there are fans who will have trouble forgiving her torture of Sam and I don't blame them. But, they gave her a child for a reason. Not that having a child inoculates someone from moral corruption but, it says to me that there's much more to Toni than what we've seen so far.

I have believed for quite a while now that Cas was past his expiration date on the show. So I feel compelled to confess that I really enjoyed him in this episode. The writers incorporated Cas into the story without devising some crazy angel shenanigans B plot. His relief at Dean being alive and his singleminded determination to find Sam were palpable. The scene when they were interrogating the vet and Mary says "hurt him" and Cas jumps to it, while Dean appears a bit flummoxed by it all was excellent.

But this isn't classified as incompetence in a hunter to you? Not to speak for D3, but it wasn't to me. Mostly because of where Dean's head is at in this scene. The person he loves most in the world is hurt (he doesn't know how badly) and missing. His long-dead mother has reappeared and a few hours prior he was a suicide bomber. Plus, he was just in a car crash. So, yeah, I can excuse him if his head isn't completely in the game. I agree that the writers often take shortcuts when they need the boys to lose a fight. But on this one, I'll give them a pass. I like where the story is going, so I'm feeling generous. ;) ETA: my response time was slow.

I think I might be! (As an aside, when I'm responding to you or Demented Daisy, I always have this urge to refer to you guys as D3 and D2. Because I'm lazy that way) My enthusiasm for the direction the show appears to be going, based on these spoilers, is a bit frightening.

I'm more excited about this season opener than I have been in years! I'm kind of shocking myself, but the Mary storyline is very intriguing and I love how it can incorporate both brothers organically. And be used for character exploration, which is what I watch for. The British MoL can also be about both boys. It's a nice change up.

Who did Dean betray?

Absolutely! Thanks, DittyDotDot. You were right. I got it all mixed up.

You and me both! I sort of doubt he would be if they didn't need something for Sheppard and Collins to do. My belief is that this new Lucifer storyline is to give J2 time off.

This season opener could be a doozy! Not a fan of either the director or the writers.