AuntieMame
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Posts posted by AuntieMame
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15 hours ago, Hana Chan said:
I have no question that from the start, the show runners wanted us to sympathize with Dany, even through her end was always going to go dark. It's a real tragedy that someone who launched her quest for the throne with the best of intentions and a real desire to transform the world. Presenting us with a beautiful, young, sympathetic figure to root for and then watch her lose sight of what she wanted to accomplish as queen is heartbreaking. And that's totally the point.
Yes, it would be if the writing supported this arc. I would love to watch a good person be compromised by ambition and circumstances and fatal flaws. Even better to have a portrayal of a person who goes bad without being a psychopath to begin. That would be brilliant and genuine art. That would teach us about ourselves and where we go wrong and right. This is not that.
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17 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:
She showed a lot of emotion, anger being one of them. And those are not superficial hits or superficial reactions.
Now, the feminism part... I'm sorry, but Dany is not wrong because she is a woman, she is wrong because she burned an entire city with women, children and non-soldiers men. She was not put in the wrong, she is in the wrong. Dany is one of my favorite characters but the rules didn't change because she is a woman, neither is she being punished because she is a woman: that is how GRRM is ending her story. It was rushed? It was poorly done? Absolutely. But I don't think it is because she is a woman.
I'm not arguing that Dany's decision to burn King's Landing and slaughter innocents is right or moral. Nor am I arguing that women aren't subject to the siren calls of power and corruption. I'm arguing that the portrayal of how Dany got there is shallow at best and the motivations the writers have shown us are sexist and inconsistent with the portrayal of Dany's character thus far. Stannis for example was consistent in his loyalty to abstract morals and his entitlement to power based on those rules. When Stannis crossed the line we at least understood how and why based on the entire development of the character and consistent elements of emotion and personality. This isn't the case with Dany.
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So, Dany is mad and inhuman because she doesn't show emotion? I thought that women were unsuited to leadership because they were too emotional. Oh well, damned if you do, damned if you dont, forever at risk of criticism and destruction trapped in the double bind and the rules and expectations can change at any moment to put any/every woman in the wrong as required by circumstance. There isn't a woman alive who doesn't understand this at least intuitively. Game of Thrones the series could be a masterclass in misogynist writing occasionally dressed up to look superficially woman friendly.
Now, as for actual human experience and emotion and reactions to overwhelming events, Dany has had an enormous amount of loss. I'm not certain that going crazy and deciding to burn King's Landing because her feelings were hurt is an emotional reaction that makes any sense. Seriously. Dany has never been a favorite of mine, but her biggest emotional reactions are about the most superficial of recent hits? Missandei's death is no big deal, but the Northerners not immediately bending the knee and feting her with adoration and Jon's revelation which sours their love is her main concern? After a dead bestie, two dead dragons, her Dothraki and Unsullied almost wiped out and her guilt and sorrow as a leader because she did promise to deliver them ultimately. We see none of this and no reactions to any of this. Other characters are also hearing enormous losses and we get nothing real about that. The writing is a shit show. I'm watching with people who are distracted by the spectacle, but it is disappointing.
With one notable exception. The existential threat of the White Walkers posing as climate change and environmental and ecological degradation has been an unwitting and unconscious portrayal of humanity's fatal flaws. I think the way the writers are managing this is EXACTLY how the average person hopes it will happen. No big deal, fixed easily and quickly almost by magic, if at the last minute, so that humanity can get back to fighting for immortality substitutes driven by the need to survive and the drive to destruction. This is absolutely human and what we desperately need to be looking at, but I don't think the writers have ANY clue what they've actually written, driven as they are by the need to move on to other prizes.
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1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:
Great thread. GRMM and D&D knew from the beginning that Dany was going to go this way but they didn't reckon how much she'd become a pop culture icon of female empowerment in the meantime:
And on that note:Changes in the zeitgeist? Like the fact that we are back to unadulterated sexism after a short period of thinly disguised sexism? The writing on this show exemplifies the confusion. The women are written as a mystery unless they're tomboys who like (stereo)typically male things. Then they're written as proto/faux males.
The one thing I did love last night was Sandor and Arya and Sandor pulling Arya into a moment of clarity. That and Tyrion and Jaime's farewell scene was earned and poignant. But both of these were well set-up in Martin's writing. The Hound really did protect and care for Arya, not to mention trained her for the world she was in, when Arya was still too young to protect herself. He was also good to Sansa even if conflicted. And while Sandor might not get showily heroic about it, I think he would have disgust and cynicism at the slaughter of innocents which replaces the resignation of previous seasons.
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22 minutes ago, ulkis said:
There's gonna be a whooole lotta shit that ended up incredibly pointless to the overall plot. :side-eye at Littlefinger:
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who was underwhelmed by the timing and manner of Littlefinger's death. The whole gotcha of it was telegraphed and tricksy (in the opinion of the writers) and it stopped any exploration of the sister's reunion. Yeah, I guess I'm really not liking these final seasons. I thought I'd be happy to get any kind of ending at all, but it seems a nonsensical ending isn't quite doing it.
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4 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:
That's the biggest thing, it's not built up. Not earned. If tgey spent more time, perhaps showed the original as bloodraven, went into his backstory, and had bran do more than stare, maybe even help in the battle using ravens to coordinate, it would work.
Having Bran do more than stare would be a really good start. Subsequent storytelling steps might include explaining the history and powers of the Three-Eyed Raven and how the knowledge and power of the 3ER might help or hinder the players in the game. As of now, Bran's entire arc has been pointless, especially if he ends as king.
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Bran? Bran is the one who holds the Iron Throne after the rubble settles according to spoilers? That just feels odd and unearned, especially as the character seems practically dissociated much of the time as he is in all times at once.
How I miss Tywin's musings to Tyrion after the Red Wedding about how much could be accomplished by mail and so cheaply from a tactical standpoint. That was trope busting television that examined human character and politics. This is just bad writing supporting spectacle at this point. Two of five episodes have been almost without dialogue and certainly without connection to character development. If Bran does end up on the throne it will be completely unearned and convoluted. I can't even with the sexism and the fact that none of these writers can write a woman with comprehensible motivations unless they first turn her into a faux man.
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2 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:
I'm on the fence here. I agree that realism shouldn't be a narrative obstacle (in transmitting what's happening to the viewer, not in "anything goes, no rules," ways...fantasy stories like all stories need to have rules and boundaries within which to act). But the complaints about how dark this episode was have gotten under my skin a bit. This was a television episode on a network that does not have advertising revenue. Put another way, I pay for the ENTIRETY of HBO content (all movies, all shows) through my monthly subscription fee that costs FAR LESS than taking my family to see a single movie (four tickets to Solo last summer and the snacks cost enough to pay for six months of HBO). I give the filmmakers a lot of credit for making something small, like interior sets in Winterfell, FEEL much larger through the use of lighting, camera work, etc. The special effects shots in this episode were rampant! They didn't have enough money to show Ghost for the better part of two full seasons, and this episode is how that money paid off. Yeah, it can be frustrating to watch if you watch it during the day, but I'm not sure what else I could have asked. If they'd done something like add a long tracking shot, as a way to establish where characters were in relation to each other, my biggest quibble, those are insanely expensive and complex to do...and for what? Shit the Dothraki arakh lighting alone cost a ton of money to produce I'm sure.
I'll accept a lot of criticism of this show and of this episode, but I do not agree that the show did us a disservice by being too dark. They simply cannot afford to show all of the things we wanted to see more clearly. Respect for how much they DID.
I don’t think people are complaining because they can’t see what they wish they could see, all of the potential fantasy effects for example; I think people are repeatedly complaining because they have difficulty seeing what is on the actual screen.
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On 4/29/2019 at 9:01 AM, Moot Smoothie said:
I watched in a darkened room too and I have a 4k Samsung so don't think my tv is the problem. It was like trying to watch a freaking audiobook. Later tried watching on laptop held up to my nose so that I could turn the screen when scenes changed to get better view but didn't help much.
Read an article this morning about how the makers have been purposely using only "natural" light for past several seasons in order to be more authentic because they didn't actually have giant electric lights back in 'those days' which never happened anyhow and people were too poor to be burning candles inside! WTF?, just sounds like such lazy bs excuse-making because most of the interior scenes are shot in castles held by people who can likely afford wax because they can surely afford face-fuls of what appear to be professionally applied cosmetics amd the services of some really first-rate tailors and dress-makers so....
It just seems counter-productive to spend so much money, time and effort to make what should be a visually great series and, at the same time, make it so hard to actually see.
You know, all of this reminds me of Robert Altman’s naturalist sounds techniques. It sounds great in theory, having the sound in a movie mimic the real life experience of entering a crowded room with multiple conversations taking place simultaneously but at the end of the day I couldn’t follow the actual dialogue in Altman’s early films much of the time.
I understand the importance of realism in art but art is not life (unfortunately) and artists and artisans need to make certain that people can see, hear and feel the art so that they can experience and then interpret. Having a film where people struggle to see and have repeatedly complained about the issue over years isn’t artistic integrity; it is artistic arrogance.
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Life got...interesting and I temporarily drifted away from the weekly episodes, figuring that I would have the treat of a binge watch. I was so invested after the end of the first season. I will still do my binge, but reading here it seems the problems behind the scenes translated to the screen.
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11 hours ago, Popples said:
Back in like Season 3, when the Brotherhood sold Gendry to Melisandre and Arya got angry, Mel held her face and told her that she sees the eyes Arya will shut forever, brown, green, and blue. Night King had blue eyes, and Arya shut them.
Except if you think too hard about this, it doesn’t make sense. If Melissandre knew that Arya was to defeat the NK, then why did she continue to look for leaders and potential NK slayers in Stannis and Jon.
I was caught up in the excitement and the spectacle of the episode but even while watching I felt that the political heart of Martin’s work had been sacrificed. Seven seasons about the existential threat of the Night King and the White Walkers and legends about the long winters when they hold sway and it only takes one battle and one death to defeat them? Making Cersei ultimately right in her tactics?
I also think of Tywin drily telling Tyrion that one can accomplish a lot by mail these days including the murder of your enemies and compare it to the blockbuster using all of the standard tropes that we got and I am a little disappointed even though I realize how unpopular this opinion will be.
I did love Arya using her Chekhov’s Assassin skills, I just think it could have been more subtly done.
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7 hours ago, Poltargyst said:
Ok, I have a question. Why is it important that Margo be a King rather than a Queen. I mean if you are the sovereign female of the country, aren't you the Queen? Is there something wrong with being a Queen?
I think that the issue is that Margo was elected High King and there hasn't been a High Queen of Fillory. I agree with you though that erasing feminitives in the language ultimately erases women. There isn't anything wrong with being a queen, or an actress or a priestess. Using male words for us doesn't change sexism. To be fair, I think Gamble is very aware of this and is trying to bring attention to the issue. At least I hope so.
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10 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:
You mean "Narnia of the Calormenes reference ala The Horse and His Boy", right? I assume you mean that and not "Narnia of the Telmarines reference ala Prince Caspian", since you mentioned Aravis, but I'm not 100% sure since both are imperialist and the Telmarines actually conquered Narnia, so there was a Telmarine-era Narnia, hence "Narnia of the Telmarines".
Was Sera Gamble involved in Whedon shows? I don't see any mentioned in her history on Wikipedia or IMDB, or by Googling. Could you be confusing her with Jane Espenson (who was involved in Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Dollhouse)?
Yes, I meant Narnia of the Calormenes and The Horse and His Boy.
I would have sworn that I read Gamble's name on Whedon credits but checking Wikipedia's page it was probably Supernatural which I watched in the early years. Thank you so much for helping me. I will correct my post.
1 hour ago, Delphi said:Are you perhaps confusing Sera Gamble with Sarah Fain won was the show runner on Dollhouse's second season?
No I was confusing Supernatural and reading her name there with a Whedon show. I'm off to correct my post. Thank you and apologies.
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I loved this episode though more for the story and characters than for the musical numbers. Eliot in his shirtless state combined with the Regency cut duster made me remember why men are handsome.
Did anyone else notice that in terms of Margo's costume and the look of the villagers that they gave us a visual Narnia of the Calormenes reference ala The Horse and His Boy? Without some of the imperialist overtones? Margo's traveling outfit was what I always imagined Aravis wearing in the escape across the desert. I loved the nod and wondered if anyone else noticed.
I liked Margo's meltdown and backstory too. The you can't be smart, strong and beautiful was cliched but true but interesting from a feminist reading was the punishment women feel when they try to become wholly themselves and the pain of daily misogyny. Most interesting was the tiny dip into the anger men feel with their daughters when they inevitably grow into women and the pain of both father and daughter when the father has to enforce patriarchy on the daughter who he told "could be anything" .
I love the emphasis this show places on friendship and compatibility of character and spirit. The writing continues to amaze. It seems Sera Gamble made incredible use of her apprenticeship in Supernatural as she is putting out not only great television but some genuinely subversive feminist writing too.
I'm very curious to see where the subplot with the Library and the Hedge Witch Rebellion goes. Interesting that Zelda was a hedge chosen as a scholarship girl. It explains some of her blind loyalty t the Library; she doesn't feel she completely belongs, which is common in people who've known both insider and outsider status.
Loving this show.
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On 3/22/2019 at 9:06 PM, AudienceofOne said:
On Alice's clothing choices - I really feel like the show is walking a fine line between characterisation and fan service.
But while I think her clothing is universally awful, in this case it shows that she is at war with herself: The sexual repression caused by her awful childhood and her own adulthood as a grown woman. Alice has always been at war with herself and this episode really exemplified it.
That is a really insightful read on the can't look away cluster of Alice's clothes as well as the discomfort she arouses in the viewer. Maybe the entire thing is intentional and is meant to evoke the discomfort we all feel.
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3 hours ago, Zanne said:
As a fellow member of the Ample Bosom Association, I don't understand her choice in skirts. They pick the ones that poof out in the back and make her look like she's got a huge rear end. It's not even bell shaped! Flat in front and POOF in back. It seems an odd choice.
More boobs chiming in and so glad I'm not the only one that noticed the odd costume choices. I don't always like Alice the character but the actress is a pretty woman and the outfits aren't doing her any favors. The overall effect seems to be some heretofore impossible fusion of slutty and dowdy.
Ah, I'm a little envious of my small breasted sisters who can wear anything they want with no trouble from the girls.
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On 3/20/2019 at 2:18 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:
Oh that is funny! When I was reading more about Anansi, that was the first story I ended up reading.
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1 hour ago, JayBird23 said:
Don't quit now, it's just getting good. I watched both episodes again and got a lot more out of them. I even watched with subtitles so I wouldn't miss any important references. This episode introduced a bunch of different story lines going in different directions. We will catch up with all of them next week. There's like five, I think, or more.
If you want to go deeper like I did, you will want to pay attention to little things like what books Shadow was reading or what is the purpose of each God. I was interested in the effect of Zorya Vechernyaya's death, as they made a reference to a star and a hound. I found a website that helped. https://nerdist.com/article/american-gods-history-primer-zorya-sisters/. It is a pretty important task that ZV had, lol.
Anyway, this season looks like it might be a lot better than I first thought. Can't wait until next week.
What was the verdict of the past relationship of Laura and Mad Sweeney? Is Laura the reincarnation of Essie McGowan? Or does she just remind Mad Sweeney of her?
I've accepted that we are not going to see an exact replication of Gaiman's book in this series. And that is fine with me--a lot more suspense.
Thank you Jaybird. I will pay closer attention on my rewatch. TBH, I was dozing/distracted a bit, this the rewatch. I'm ok with it not being an exact replica of Gaiman's book too. I find that the long form of serial television generally adds to the adaptation. This is often not the case when adapting books for movies. I'm looking forward to Good Omens too.
I always loved Wednesday 's courtliness with Zorya, so I'm going to check out the site.
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I miss the prologue vignettes that introduced each episode and told us about the g ods. I miss Mr. Nancy telling his got damn stories, along with Anubis. I hope they don't lose this completely. Worst of all, they're underutilizing the incomparable Orlando Jones. I know Season 1 was dreamy but so far Season 2 has yet to grab me. I know this show isn't plot driven, but at the moment it isn't character driven either with the exception of Mad Sweeney and Dead Wife. I'm still in, and I'm planning on rewatching both episodes tonight but the behind the scenes kerfuffle has affected the show. And now a third showrunner? How is that going to work?
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Thanks to everyone who was so elegant in their analysis of the acting for the Quentin character. It’s all really true. Q does have issues, common ones in depression and low self esteem and I would think at this point some trauma. The actor is knocking it out of the park. He shows the flaws but also Q’s good character. He tries to be a good person.
That is the genius of this show, the depiction of good if flawed people and how they interact. The show stresses friendship and true soulmates and that soulmate isn’t always about who you have sexual feelings for...that you’re lucky if you ever have that connection.
I know we still have to see where the writers take the overall series arc, but I’m hoping this show becomes a slow burn classic. I think it really is that good in many ways.
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The trailer is amazing and has inspired me to do a reread. I adored this book the first time I read it.
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I think about in a lot of Dragon mythology every river has its tutelary dragon. I've read/seen this before. I just wish the East River Dragon had been a unique individual. All of the dragons we've seen so far seem to have the identical snarky personality and not just in the shared species way. I was glad that baby Dragon to be was returned to the dragons.
I do like Fen and loved that the cat lady pointed out that she had been trained to think of everyone but herself. I didn't like that this was immediately turned into the potential bloody overthrow of Margot. I'd love to see Fen and Margot working together more.
This episode had a lot of set up. Alice providing Zelda the means to quest in the mirror realm for her daughter. Pete as a possible lieutenant for Kady and her defense of the hedges. Penny 23 and 40 still a mystery. Margot and Fen questing together with the hint of possible betrayal. The main players a bit of a mystery in terms of how they will defeat the monster and save Eliot. That plot line seems to be weakening. It will be interesting to see how the writers the it all together as the second half of the season picks up speed. I hope that Camryn Mannheim's character gets more use. She is a possible Chekhov's gun in the plot.
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On 3/9/2019 at 8:18 AM, Pallas said:
I love that.
Vulture has two articles about the return of the Gods, Old and New. The first reviews the behind-the-scenes, between-the-seasons gotterdammerung between Starz and Showrunnerz.
https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/american-gods-season-2-changes-recap.html
The second is Matt Zoller Seitz's review of Season Two.
https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/american-gods-season-2-starz-review.html
Thank you pallas. Don't I remember you from the late, lamented TWOP? I liked the articles and I'm heartbroken to lose both Ostara and Fuller. I don't think another showrunner will produce the surreal, disturbing beauty that Fuller brought to this and Hannibal.
Starz was trying to decide on American Gods or the Miriam Black series. I'm hoping b that Miriam might still get made.
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I'm already heartbroken about no Kristen Chenowith because she really embodied the goddess of spring for me. I've noticed the changes of spring coming already and have tried to be mindfully grateful. I'll watch again and write more later in the day because I don't know what platforms have this up early.
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Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion
in Game Of Thrones
You make a good point here. We don't really know even the mechanics of how Rhaegar even had Lyanna with him given that he was married and she engaged. In societies where women are traded as breeders, valuable breeders are controlled (oops, I meant protected) and not really allowed to run all over the countryside breaking up marriages, especially the King's marriage. Not a lot of sense here.