AuntieMame

I went to find Episode 8/Season and Series finale this morning. I was so surprised to find out that episode 7 was it. Talk about not with a bang but a whimper. What a let down. It isn’t even the cliffhanger so popular in these days of episodic serials. It was more of a meh, we can’t be bothered to write the easy storylines to completion and give a few hints for the futures of our main characters. I’d like a hint whether Jackie will fight the good fight with her alcoholism. Will Ray and Renee be stuck with each other while becoming increasingly bitter and frustrated or will they work it out? Will Osito and Charmaine get things running smoothly? Just a few hints.

Thanks for this. Going back to Da Vinci’s Demons and giving Black Sails a try just moved up my lust. DVD first I think. What makes Black Sails bonkers? Just curious.

I followed a similar reading path. I read Daisy Jones and the Six first and wanted to like it more than I did. I love created documents and epistolary novels, so this should have been tailor made for me. I just felt that heart and sincerity and deeply wrought characters were missing. I reread it while I watched the series and enjoyed it more but saw no reason to change my initial assessment. I read the Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo shortly after my first read of Daisy and loved it. This is the one I’m afraid to read again for fear it won’t be as good as I remember it. I wish TJR was a bit less successful so she could develop her talent more because I do think it’s there, but at this point she has no reason to have the fire in her belly she would need. The biggest problem is that I don’t believe that Billy and Daisy are in love in any format. All they give us is lust. Lust can be an amazing ingredient in a great love but other ingredients need to be there too. I never see them with Daisy and Billy even though the music and songwriting should be an easy entrance to artistic sympathy and a means to show them connecting but i just don’t see it. That’s what’s missing and the incredible costumes and nostalgia and acting and pretty people don’t make up for a lack of soul.

This is one of my favorite series ever. I consider the last episode to be television as literature. Yes we needed the five years of investment in the characters for it to be as heart wrenching and satisfying as it was, but the heart piercing sincerity and the societal work done around death and grieving was phenomenal. I’ve always wanted to try a SFU experiment. I would like to find a SFU virgin and show them the pilot and the finale and see how they reacted. I watched carefully during one of my rewatches and George and the Kathy Bates character are the only two not introduced in the pilot. Their roles in the finale could be easily understood by context. I would just like to see the reaction to Six Feet Under as a de facto movie. What do you guys think? Would it still be powerful? I know not as powerful but I wonder how much would still be there. Because the pilot was stunningly written, acted and produced too.

Except that we saw that little smile when he heard that Mental was the company from Taylor. Soon enough Axe will know how the trap was built because Wendy’s uncovered that information. 1. I agree. I seriously doubt that Wendy could ultimately be held criminally liable for things that went on at the company before she became CEO. Even both sets of books on her devices could be explained as high level hacking. Now if all of this had been done in Wendy’s first year or two with Mental that might be more of a threat, but as it was presented? Easily defended legally without even having to resort to rich and white to stay out of jail. 2. The whole Prince will fold because his pee pee will be publicly mocked seemed ridiculous beyond words. Even taking into account that people are emotional and that perceived strength and virility are attractive qualities in a man for both men and women the idea that his wife cuckolding Prince was due to a lack of sexual prowess is a stretch. As a poster said upthread, Prince and his wife were separated for a long time and adultery is a fact of life. This just doesn’t work and Derek being a threat because he’s the proof of Prince’s lack of manhood rather than because he’s proof that Prince is capable or murder and treason seems silly too. 3. I don’t understand why going to cash is a thing either but all of his courtiers looked distressed and worried. I enjoyed watching this while I was watching it but you really can’t think about it at all or everything falls apart.

Sad but I agree entirely. When I finished it was what did I just watch and more importantly why did I bother? There was absolutely no point at all.

Right? The start-up seemed like poisoned bait to me but I questioned how a start up with aspirations to serve those who couldn’t necessarily pay a lot could possibly offer Wendy enough money to tempt her. All of these people could not work for the rest of their lives and buy pretty much anything they want already. When does more money stop being an enticement? I’d think that point would be far below what these people have already had for years. I don’t understand what anyone’s motivations are at this point. Money? They have enough. More than enough. Power? They certainly have enough to live a secure life and none of our merry band has professed a desire for public personal power. Excellence in their field of endeavor? Again, according to the writing all of these people are successful and accomplished in their fields, in Taylor’s case to the level of savant without the problematic aspects that often come with savant gifts. So what do these people want? As for Prince being the next Stalin and the only proof we’ve been given is Wendy’s intuition and Prince’s willingness to push the nuclear button when given a hypothetical situation. Isn’t that decision always in the hands of our most powerful? Doesn’t the fact that it would always be planetary suicide either fast or slow stay people’s hands? I just wish some kind of understandable character motivations were established. If I were a megalomaniacal overlord with unquenchable ambition then life extension or immortality might be next on my list. If I were less megalomaniacal but rich enough to do what I wanted? Pursuit of an avocation or trying to truly improve the world might top the list. Or just a lifetime of happiness. What are these people pursuing?

This is my question too. What makes Prince worse than any other megalomaniacal overlord ruling this world? And what makes our band of mutineers suddenly moral even in theory? Haven’t they been working for the evil overlords to get rich and using many of the same tactics even when they momentarily weren’t working for the money harvesters? I think that Prince catching them at it has to be giving Prince enough rope to hang himself and to feel secure. Otherwise they’re all just really moronic. I hope Phillip is a double agent.

I was hoping this too because otherwise our stalwart band of saviors are a bit idiotic. It’s disappointing. I’d also like to see a bit more of what makes Prince more evil and megalomaniacal than our average overlord. Seems that this goes into the good idea but poor execution box unless we get a big switch up.

Oiph this show, lol. It could be great but somehow misses by degrees. I love Wendy and Taylor working to take down Prince and hope both that Andy joins them and that we get more of the nuts and bolts of their machinations and Wendy’s intuition. If we got more depth of character and motivation, especially with our overlords and their megalomaniacal zeal to control everything? Be immortal? Remake human life to say they can? Even if the humanity reboot isn’t an improvement? I need to understand why these people are doing what they’re doing and I just don’t. Not with Axe either back in the beginning. I loved the call out to Bohemian Grove and yet again wished they’d given us more. The ritual at the end needed more. I’ve seen intriguing little internet snippets of the BG’s last night ritual and it looks like a genuine religious ritual. Re: The magic concrete. Is cracking the only thing that goes wrong with concrete? Doesn’t it also settle, crumble and turn to dust? I liked that they mentioned Roman concrete as part of the material inspiration. I believe that Roman concrete was mixed with seawater which might explain the bacteria that helped keep it strong. Honestly, I’ve had enough of the not subtle normalization of the paraphilias and perversions vis a vis Wags. I especially hated that Wags is turned into the victim. (Poor me, I feel unlovable so I have to degrade others in the most horrible ways imaginable, says Wags.) Please. And then to add insult to injury the girlfriend figures out a way to please him, egged on by a therapist no less, and Wags then complains that her degradation isn’t complete enough because she’s explained why she would be willing to do this out of love? I had a hard time believing that a woman would be running around convincing another woman to debase herself in ways most people wouldn’t even discuss. I’m starting to wonder who in the writers room has a full scale, diagnosable perversion.

I’m going to rewatch anyway and I will take a closer look at the necklace. I’m a maker and now you’re making me wonder if I could reproduce it, lol. I loved Midge’s blue dress too, even though it was simpler than things she usually wears. I love things that show the whole line of the torso. These styles are great for petite women too, makes them look taller. This is actually a thing. I’ve seen it happen more than once. The terminal person rallies to get their affairs in order, see everyone they want to see and sometimes heal old wounds and breaches with other people. Those watching can sometimes almost believe that this will be a permanent improvement. But it usually isn’t. Im surprised that Rose’s matchmaking business is a loser. Yes, by that time formal matchmaking was on the downturn, but dating services and matchmaking have always been a thing. This doesn’t track with the other matchmakers taking mafia level defensive measures when Rose came on the scene. You don’t roll out the big guns for someone who isn’t a threat. But okay. Midge is a good daughter. The Weissman’s helplessness is overdone. Especially in American society at everything except the very highest levels. Rose isn’t what passes in America for an aristocrat. Her family money is three generations old with her being the third generation. Plus it was lucky strike oil. Do you really think that grandmama didn’t know how to turn on the stove? Or would have allowed her progeny to be not just spoiled but beyond idiocy? Meh. I’ve never watched Gilmore Girls (I know, I know) but has anyone ever accused the Palladino’s of being ham-fisted and heavy handed when it comes to both melodrama and/or when they’re virtue signaling? And that they often accomplish the opposite of what they intended?

I’ve been thinking of Joel as a hero, but I did privately wonder why Joel didn’t talk to Midge about what was really going on because by not doing so he left Midge not only ignorant but vulnerable for years. All the time getting in deeper and deeper financially and emotionally. The only reason I can see is that Midge would quite rightly object to Joel committing crimes and being in so deep. If Joel had been honest they might have been able to affect Susie’s situation too. I fear though that someone would have had to be sacrificed because those mob guys never let go. But still, Midge reading all of this in a letter, in real time, while the father of her children is arrested before her very eyes explains why she was so furious. Midge had to be the one to reach out because she is the absolutely wronged party in all of this. One last thought about why Joel wouldn’t tell Midge the truth is that Midge would have wanted everyone to be free of mafia entanglements and Joel had done the math and knew that wasn’t an option. Midge has never really experienced something tragic and unjust that can’t be changed. Her reaction to insist that everything go her way might well have gotten some or all of them killed. Lenny, ah Lenny. You make my heart go pitterpat and make me remember the true magic that can exist between men and women. The reminder is like rain in a desert. I think that in one of the flash forwards we will get a response from Midge in some interview that asks about Lenny. Then we will get a flashback in the flash forward that shows us what really happened. That’s how we will see Lenny one last time. At least I ardently hope so.

I think that’s because Joel’s parents are genuine and sincere when you strip away the over the top tacky nouveau gloss the writing has slathered over them. Joel learned to be a mensch from his father. The man who made sure that Abe and Rose weren’t homeless, who made sure Midge and the kids had the apartment, who rescued people from Nazi Germany even though he had not the first clue how to go about it. The only sincere kind thing we’ve seen from the Weissman’s was Abe writing Moishe’s obituary. Which said he was a mensch. I’m not saying the Weissman’s are terrible people but where the rubber meets the road you can see that Maisel family is stronger on active love and kindness.

I’ve always been with the family court judge, they should have worked things out. But Midge might not have been Mrs. Maisel had they done that, but then again… And this episode we hear Midge saying she’s still in love with Joel. While leaving Philip Roth at the altar. I had trouble picturing Midge and Philip Roth together, but okay. I did love Midge’s wedding suit. Very Bianca Jagger. I agree completely that Joel has quietly and consistently been a mensch to everyone. I’m not surprised that he protected Archie. I’m not surprised that he and Midge are in some ways still spousal. I’m not surprised that Joel was willing to quietly sacrifice so much to see that Midge wasn’t owned.

Am I the only one who feels like they just assassinated Susie’s character? I don’t mean the roast either. I watched this episode avidly; it was a tight episode in terms of structure and gave us answers to the coy teases of the flash forwards, but they turned Susie into a horrible person. Vulgar, selfish, greedy and ruthless. I’ve never viewed Susie that way. Yes, she was quirky and foul mouthed, yes she wanted to succeed, but she also genuinely wanted her clients to succeed and her good heart was always apparent. The only time they showed the Susie we’ve come to know in this episode was when her mentor was dying. If I was Midge and those were the circumstances, I would have been furious too. Joel certainly ended up neck deep in things. The money laundering makes sense. Nightclubs are a great business to do the laundry, especially back in the day when they were overwhelmingly cash businesses. But I still hate how they took a truly original character and turned her into a heartless Hollywood shark. PS - Chava is beyond frightening.

I just read that there will be no Season 4 for this incredibly creative and original show. While I could have done without the cannibalism of Season 3, I would have loved more of this show. It’s rare to get something with very little inspiration from other works. Even with The Mists of Avalon, Vikings and The Last Kingdom all dealing in different ways with the same roughly 500 year period, Britannia stood out to me as stunningly different. The costumes and the visuals were incredible. The fact that we were never entirely sure whether we were seeing a closer spiritual reality or whether everyone was whacked on religion and psychedelics kept the question of dualism in the viewers mind without ever fully answering. I will rewatch this at some point, so farewell to a truly interesting series.

Midge’s money wouldn’t have to be laundered, but the mob guys said they were getting ten percent of Midge and ten percent of Susie, which to me means all of Susie’s clients. Explaining where that much money went and possibly why they weren’t paying taxes on kickbacks to the mob might be part of the issue. There would almost have to be some creative bookkeeping going on. I agree that Midge and Gordon were out of context in Midge and Joel’s special diner, it was jarring. But I still liked their scene together and loved Midge explaining the actual conditions of women’s lives to him. Because she would be the girl who slept with Gordon. If there were consequences to bear, she would bear them. This hasn’t really changed, imo. Even now, it’s usually not the male half of the office romance who finds themselves clutching a pink slip. It isn’t the philandering husband who gets called a home wrecker. Midge is smart not to go for that poisoned (but very handsome and charming) bait. I love that Joel still cares about Midge and that he’s worrying about the mob guys. His worries are justified. Whatever Joel is in prison for, I think the seeds of it are here if not the actual crime. Piracy! I love it. It’s the kind of throw the book at them charge that would be dropped during negotiation. Thought to be considered international waters I think it is either one or two miles offshore. Certainly not so close that you can practically touch the lights of Manhattan. And good for Midge for defending the waitress. I waited tables when I was young. Too many people treat you like you’re a prostitute who happens to be carrying food. And sometimes the women who are higher up the food chain treat you like you’re invisible when these things happen for fear of losing what little safety and status they have. PS - I thought the jacket ended up in the water accidentally on purpose. Whoopsie.

Well, he is still their tenant. And their daughter did just break his heart. Joel’s clearly gutted by that. Of course they feel bad for him. It couldn’t be helped, but it is hurting Joel. Not saying they aren’t completely loyal to their daughter but there would be an element of “oh you poor bastard” when it comes to Joel. Then there was Chekhov’s mob guys last season who were genuinely afraid of Mei’s family and their associates. That’s how they will save Susie and Midge. Though I wish Midge had behaved better at the show. Sometimes you need to play the long game. Especially if there’s even an outside possibility of being buried in New Jersey marshland.

We did get a clue in Susie’s line about “wives who shouldn’t be wives”, so I was wondering. Visually the show presents Susie as a slightly gender non-conforming lesbian but we’ve never seen her involved with anyone. A heart beyond shattered makes sense to me with Susie. And yeah, this means that Gordon might not just be shoveling the usual nonsense of married men looking to play away from home. I thought Midge and Gordon had chemistry. Not like Lenny, but chemistry. I’m wondering if Joel might bail them out via Mei’s parents too. Joel already quietly bailed Susie and Midge out when Susie gambled Midge’s Shay Baldwin money away. In some ways I’m with the family court judge who suggested that Midge and Joel shouldn’t divorce. Maybe they should have come to some sort of arrangement themselves. The more I watch, the more I adore Susie. She reminds me of so many scrappy, resourceful, resilient and brilliant women who never really get the credit they deserve for bravery and endurance let alone anything else. In the characterization of Susie, for whatever reasons, the Palladinos have held back a little and Susie feels more like a character instead of a caricature than any other player on the show.

Lenny is magical and I’m definitely on board the “wow, he’s so handsome and charismatic” train that other posters are riding. Imagine what flirting with him must be like, even as banter and acting. Swoon. I really hope that isn’t the final scene with Lenny, that we didn’t say goodbye to him in an airport hallway and send him off into tragedy. At the very least I hope we get a glimpse of Midge’s regret and grief for a fallen friend. I’m the same way. It’s rare that I guffaw, but I often find things funny. This show though? No, that isn’t why I watch it. I find the writing for Joel’s parents a mean spirited portrayal and Rose and Abe not much better. I don’t like comedy that relies on cruelty. At this point I’m watching just as much for Susie as for Midge. I’ve been rewatching a bit while waiting for other episodes to drop and I’m liking Susie more and more. I hope we get to see more of her journey to success.

You just made my day! I was waiting for someone to get the allusion. I figured there would be a lot of people watching this who saw Almost Famous. Don’t count on the book being a lot more compelling. Somehow it just isn’t. I actively disliked it the first time through and read I again because of the show. It was better the second time through but not a ton. It still reads like a combination of sixties and seventies rock cliches and someone writing a report on the classic rock era. None of the characters read as real people. Though in these last episodes, they do start selling me Billie and Daisy as in love. Well, Graham is Billy’s brother if that helps. But your point is well taken, the secondary characters are flat to say the least.

Thank you for working out the multiple degrees of relation that happen when multiple generations commit incest. I’ve read the Mayfair history set piece several times and love it, but I’ve always shied away from figuring out just how many multiples there are in this family. This will help my next reread some years down the line. I wish the show runners had kept the 90s time period for Rowan. This is after all a fantasy universe. I’m sure the thinking was that the 18 to 35 demographic couldn’t cope if the main storyline wasn’t absolutely contemporary, but I’m thinking their efforts would have been better spent on a coherent storyline. Thank you as well for helping sort out the genealogy. What a tangled web incest weaves. Talk about wishful thinking. Lasher was more than lucky that thirteen generations of incest produced Rowan instead of dying out generations before as the recessives gave people mental and physical congenital deformities. The only other time I’ve seen such wishful thinking in an author was George RR Martin and his super tough army of castrati. Because that isn’t what happens when you castrate men. Worse Martin knew it as evidenced by the characters of Theon and Varys.

I read it with my actual eyeballs, lol. I’ve also toyed over the years with an idea for a Hollywood novel that was a combination of straight narrative and created documents. It was really a disappointment when this book was such a disappointment. To be fair, the only other Reid novel I’ve read was The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and I liked that while I was reading it.

Oh that sunken cost fallacy has brought many people to grief over the years. One of my grandfather’s favorite aphorisms was “Don’t throw good money after bad.” He didn’t just mean money either the way he used the quotation. The idea that things just have to work out/pay off if only you just persevere is a common slow poison. As for the photography, everyone needs a first break. The show has talked about Camille having photography gigs here and there. The idea of trying to at least suggest her for the album cover or get her there so she could assist and learn from the principal photographer for a credit doesn’t seem so crazy to me. Especially for a band that has recently gotten breaks they needed. While I like Camille better than Billy or Daisy, she is written as a bit of a trope. The rock or artist wife attracted by talent but with none of her own. In reality, talented and creative people like to be around other talented and creative people. The show goes down easily enough when I’m watching, as is the reread of the book so far but when I think about it a lot of things just fall flat.

This show thinks it’s pushing boundaries? It’s one long ridiculous cliche fest and while the first season was fun to hate, this season is beyond boring.