tv echo

The current issue of TV Guide has an article containing a lot of info about Season 4, episode 1: While I like the idea of the group being separated and struggling to get back together, I have to admit I'm a bit turned off by the Lexi news. So she's magically grown up to look like someone who would appeal to the CW demographic (even though the show's on TNT)? And why is it that every child on a sci-fi alien show has to be special? It's V all over again. And the whole Ghost idea sounds kinda stupid but maybe it'll be better than it sounds.

I'm afraid that Laurel will always be a part of Arrow unless Katie Cassidy gets offered her own TV show in which she is the main star or her movie career takes off in a big way.

You're right. And Laurel's ego-centrism was apparent from the very first episode - when Oliver Queen's return from the dead was featured news on TV and Laurel just turns off the TV at CNRI even though everyone else is still watching the TV.

I don't put much stock in the Emmys. They tend to vote for the same shows and actors year after year. I'm generally sick of all of the Hollywood and entertainment awards shows. What other profession or industry gives itself so many awards? Emmy Awards, Oscar Awards, Tony Awards, Golden Globe Awards, Critics Choice Awards, SAG Awards, Producers Guild Awards, Writers Guild Awards, People's Choice Awards, MTV Movie Awards, Teen Choice Awards, Grammy Awards, American Music Awards, etc.

To clarify what I said previously, I think the mirakuru messed up Slade's head and he became fixated on keeping his promise to Oliver - the promise that specifically targeted Thea, Moira and Laurel. He also only knew the Oliver of 5 years ago (still somewhat spoiled and self-absorbed) when Oliver hadn't been through his entire crucible yet. Oliver still had another 3 years of Hong Kong and whatever else he experienced after shooting Slade and before returning to the island. Oliver further evolved and changed in the year after he returned to Starling City. The Oliver that Slade knew probably would have considered Diggle and Felicity his helpers rather than his partners. I've liked the little scenes between Felicity and Diggle as well. I'm thinking of that scene where Diggle is sitting guard in his car outside Felicity's apartment and she comes out in her pjs with a cup of coffee for him. In the second half of season 2, I feel like the EPs gave lines/scenes to Laurel that would've normally gone to Felicity or Diggle in an effort to integrate Laurel into the main story. For example, having Laurel get someone to hack into a database to discover Blood's connection to Moira's death and thus being the one to tell Oliver of Blood's involvement with Slade (as well as having that cringe-inducing "I know you to your bones" scene), thereby making it necessary to bring in Laurel when Oliver wanted to surrender himself to Slade - thus insinuating Laurel into Team Arrow and having Laurel follow Oliver where there was the explosion, thus creating the scene where Laurel shoots Oliver's bow. All contrived and unnecessary, when Felicity could've easily done the hacking - thereby removing Laurel from most of that episode.

If you want to talk about waiting forever for a couple to get together... I had to suffer through many seasons of The X-Files and several years of Farscape before the two main leads finally hooked up. Of course, that's not the only reason I watched those shows. Fortunately, they were (for the most part) pretty well-written, developed and acted shows. Also, during all that time, Mulder/Scully and John/Aeryn worked and fought together as trusted friends and partners, and it was pretty clear that they were meant to be together.

Cutting the O/F kiss was the right move. Too much and would've hurt Felicity after the reveal. However, no kiss was a big clue that it was a fake-out. Not doing a chemistry test for the two supposed romantic leads was a huge mistake. I wonder if KC even had to do a screen test or audition for the part of Laurel? Because I also think she was miscast if Laurel is supposed to be this warm and compassionate lawyer who's a cop's daughter. The Arrow producers probably considered getting KC for their new show a big congratulatory moment and didn't bother with either a chemistry test or a screen test. I don't remember seeing KC in anything else, but I know she has been in a lot of CW shows and other TV shows, as well as having a bit part in that Liam Neeson movie, Taken. So she has an extensive resume.

Here's how I see it. In that last flashback right before Oliver shot an arrow in Slade's eye, Slade made his promise to Oliver that he would kill everyone that Oliver loved, saying that Sara was already gone, and then specifically mentioning Thea, Moira and Laurel. When Slade showed up in Starling City, he told Oliver that he always keeps his promise. I think the mirakura made him crazy and put him in this fixed mindset that he would go after those three specific women. When he forced Oliver to choose between Thea and Moira, I think Moira's gallantry and courage in offering herself to die earned her Slade's respect and, out of that respect/sacrifice, Slade did not touch Thea after that. He then planned to target Laurel because he was still in that island mindset where he believed that she was Oliver's great love. Therefore, Slade was blindly adhering to his promise to Oliver, ignoring the possibility that things might have changed in the years since he knew Oliver, and likely considered people like Diggle and Felicity just helpers to Oliver (like Slade had helpers) who would be destroyed along with Starling City. It took Oliver singling out Felicity at the mansion for Slade to target Felicity.

Regardless of how Laurel has been written or portrayed on TV, Katie Cassidy should be more careful in her interviews and con appearances - more conscious of how her words will be received by Arrow fans. Liking the actress who plays a disliked TV character could help fans accept a possible "redemption" arc for that character or, at the very least, make fans want to see KC in future projects. The last time I saw this much fan hate for a leading female character on a TV show was for Lori Grimes on The Walking Dead. Lori was in a love triangle with her husband Rick and his best friend Shane, who she hooked up with when she thought her husband was dead. Lori came off as annoying, entitled and manipulative in a Lady MacBeth way. Lori was finally killed off in a heroic way (sacrificing her life to give birth to her child). [This is not a spoiler since it already aired on TV.] However, the actress who played Lori - Sarah Wayne Callies - came off as really nice, funny and self-deprecating in her comic-con appearances. So while a lot of fans were happy to see Lori go, they still loved Sarah Wayne Callies.

This is so funny... Someone spliced together footage from two different panels at Phoenix Comic-con where John Barrowman and Stephen Amell each describe the same scene:

Here's another article that talks about this same casting rumor, as well as other speculation: Arrow Season 3 Spoilers: Oded Fehr As Ra's Ak Ghul, John Diggle As Green Lantern, Manu Bennett 'Deathstroke' Return And More! Published June 16, 2014 http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/25086/20140616/arrow-season-3-spoilers.htm The MG easter egg spoiler is interesting, but I don't think the Diggle as GL theory is based on anything concrete. Stephen Amell also did a Facebook Q&A recently in which he may have hinted that Harley Quinn may show up in Season 3. I don't know if it was a real spoiler or if he was just being coy, so I'm putting it in the Spoiler thread. https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell/posts/666072563478014

Hmm... the comments above made me consider a possible direction that the EPs might go: Season 3 - Laurel's journey toward becoming the Black Canary is charted (however ridiculous). She becomes even closer to Oliver and becomes an ally/member of Team Arrow, but doesn't hook up with him again romantically. Oliver and Felicity's relationship is explored, with 'Daniel' and Oliver's baby mama posing obstacles, and with a possible actual hook-up, but ultimately they decide to stay friends and partners. Season 4 - Laurel/Black Canary and Oliver/Green Arrow get back together romantically. Season 5 - Laurel and Oliver break up for good, and Oliver and Felicity end up together. [OR] Laurel and Oliver stay together, and Felicity ends up with someone else. Pure speculation at this point.

I think it's nice that CL and EBR get along so well. From EBR's twitter page (https://twitter.com/EmilyBett): I used to think that EBR and KC didn't hang out together because of their age difference - KC is 27 and EBR is 22 (a month younger than WH, believe it or not). But CL is also 27.

Looking at the Season 2 poster above, I suspect the Season 3 poster will be changed to give Katie Cassidy a more prominent placement (closer to Oliver/Arrow).

I found these YouTube videos from EBR & CH's promo trip to Madrid (some interesting stuff said): Colton Haynes y Emily Bett Rickards: "Oliver Queen estaria perdido sin nosotros" Published June 9, 2014 The 100 / Arrow - Press & Fans Meeting (Madrid, Junio 2014) Published June 9, 2014 Arrow - Colton Haynes & Emily Bett Rickards Paneldeki Komik Anlan Published June 11, 2014 Colton Haynes & Emily Bett with fans in Madrid Published June 9, 2014 EBR and CH are so funny together. I may not like Roy as a character, but CH is really likeable in his interviews. He makes me want to keep Roy on the show.

I'm not 100% convinced, just fearful based on hints that the show will swing back to and end on Oliver/Laurel because of the following (largely related to Laurel becoming the Black Canary and comic book canon): - Her name is Dinah Laurel Lance and Dinah was the Black Canary in the comics - EP interview comments about Green Arrow and Black Canary being iconic like Clark and Lois - EP interview comments about Oliver and Laurel breaking up and getting together repeatedly (don't recall exact words or which interview) - One of the EPs wrote some of the Green Arrow/Black Canary comic book stories - Sara handing the Canary jacket off the Laurel in the season 2 finale - Sara telling Laurel that "Oliver needs you" in the season 2 finale - Hints of Laurel "fighting" and shooting the bow in past seasons - Katie Cassidy's comic con and past interview comments strongly implying that she'll become the Black Canary and outright saying that Laurel and Oliver belong together (or words to that effect) and that Arrow and Canary are together in the comics - Giving Laurel lines like "I know you better than anyone" and "I know you in my bones like I know my own name" (I think even Oliver had a line in season 1 where he says to Laurel "you know me better than anyone")

My bad. I guess they think EBR is popular enough in the U.S. and are sending her overseas to do promotion.

I'm curious to see how Felicity will dress in Season 3. In the first season, she was dressed appropriately for an IT person in a corporate environment. In the second season, she dressed much more fashionably, I guess, to fit her job as executive assistant to the CEO of a big multinational corporation. In the third season, maybe she'll wear more jeans and pants outfits.

I don't know who decides which Arrow cast members attend these comic cons. but I find it curious that Katie Cassidy and Caity Lotz are the female cast members going to all of these comic cons, and not Emily Bett Rickards - arguably the most popular female cast member. Is EBR tied up in a project, or are the show producers purposely keeping her out of the limelight while they promote KC and CL? I can't imagine EBR refusing to attend a comic con if she was asked to attend.

This is exactly what I meant by appeasing Olicity fans in my previous post above. If the EPs decide to put Oliver and Laurel together and if it becomes clear the show is headed in that direction, then how do they not alienate and drive away Olicity fans? They don't want to lose any viewers and there are many Olicity and/or Felicity fans out there. Well, they put Felicity in another romantic relationship with a popular actor that fans can root for.

Hope this is in the right thread, but here goes... Like many of you, I'm concerned about the whole sticking-to-comic-book-canon issue with regards to Dinah Laurel Lance. There are and have been many TV shows that have been based on book series or comic book series that have deviated significantly from their original source material. One example is The Walking Dead, which is greatly different from the comic book series in terms of living and dead (or non-existing) characters. Another example is True Blood - the TV series is virtually unrecognizable from the Charlaine Harris books, particularly when it comes to Sookie's love relationships. Even Smallville deviated significantly from the Superman comic book series with its depictions of Lex Luthor and Lana Lang, although it did stick to the canonical Clark pairings with Lana and then Lois. Even so, the TV show made it seem like Lana was the love of Clark's life and Lois was second choice. I read that one of the EPs (I forget which one) actually wrote some of the Green Arrow-Black Canary comic books, so I get that maybe he wants to stick to what he wrote - but, c'mon on, the TV series has developed organically on its own. From what I've heard, the comic book Green Arrow was an unlikeable, womanizing jerk - that's not the kind of hero I want to watch on my TV every week. The medium of expression also makes a difference. In a comic book, you're limited to a two-dimensional medium for telling your story. In a TV show, you have greater scope for telling your story using three-dimensional characters who can convey nuances of speech and facial expression. If the EPs are concerned about alienating Green Arrow comic book readers should the show deviate from "canon", I suspect that the percentage of Arrow's viewers who read the comic books is fairly small and that many of those viewers won't care if Laurel doesn't become the Black Canary. And, as has already been posted elsewhere, a good argument can be made that comic book canon has already been satisfied because Oliver and Laurel (if she becomes the Canary) have already gotten together and broken up a few times.

You'll get your wish when ASkars stars in the new movie

This is a really well-written, thoughtful and lengthy analysis of the Oliver/Felicity and Oliver/Laurel relationships based on the past two seasons of Arrow: Felicity Or Laurel - Who Should Oliver End Up WIth? Posted by Autumn Topping on June 12, 2014 http://www.silverpetticoatreview.com/2014/06/12/felicity-or-laurel-who-should-oliver-end-up-with/ This author expresses a lot of what I think - and much better than I ever could. From the article: From my own perspective and Arrow experience, I find the Oliver and Felicity story to be stronger thus far on a romantic level. Executive Producer Marc Guggenheim hits the nail right on the head on why the connection between Oliver and Felicity appeals to so many. I do think it is because of the purity of their love. In a way, I recognize a strong influence there from The X Files and Doctor Who (Doctor and Rose). I see subtlety, ambiguity, depth, and a soul connection comparable to the love between Scully and Mulder. To me, it is about the slow build up and friendship, something I ‘typically’ appreciate more than rushed relationships. It is about the human connection rather than merely a sexual one. There are also comparisons made to Smallville, La Femme Nikita, and even Pride and Prejudice. You need to read the entire article, though, especially if you're an Olicity fan.

tv echo, can you elaborate a little on this? How does giving Felicity a love interest and putting Oliver and Laurel back together appease Olicity fans? I was thinking of Smallville. When that show's producers decided not to put Clark together with Chloe romantically because they wanted to stick to the comic book canon of Clark and Lois, Chloe was given her own romance with that show's Oliver Queen - another hot superhero type. If the Arrow EPs have committed to an Oliver-Laurel endgame (remember the controversial EP comment about Green Arrow and Black Canary being like Clark/Superman and Lois?), they may think that giving Felicity her own superhero romance is a good consolation prize - that Olicity fans will like that pairing enough to change their loyalty to the new pair. Personally, I think they're wrong. Although Clark and Chloe had chemistry, I could understand why that pairing might not have worked in Smallville - different story, different relationship. On Arrow, the relationship between Oliver and Felicity has developed quite organically and has hit a lot of the classic hero romance marks (putting on the mask, "believe in you" speech, etc.). So, if the Daniel romance is meant to be a sop to the Olicity fans, I don't think it'll work.

I still think it's producer arrogance/ego (if I'm being mean) or stubbornness (if I'm being nice). They started out with this vision of Dinah Laurel Lance as the second Black Canary (remember their comment about no one being the original superhero?) and they're not going to deviate from it. I suspect/expect that the EPs believe that they're going to have such an awesome story arc about Laurel becoming the Black Canary in Season 3 that the fans will all go "oh, we're sorry we ever doubted you - Laurel makes a great Black Canary". If I'm wrong, then I'll gladly be proven wrong. My concern is that such an attitude on the parts of TPTB has been the downfall of other shows, and I want Arrow to last beyond Season 3.