tv echo

I'm still leaning towards the EPs remaining committed to making Laurel the Black Canary. But IF they've changed their minds, I can see two possible scenarios - both ways to try to make Laurel a more popular character with fans: 1. Laurel is faced with the option of becoming the Black Canary (upon Sara's death?) and she chooses not to go down that path. 2. Laurel does go dark and slowly becomes a villain, perhaps starting out with good intentions (ends justify the means).

I had forgotten how good this episode was - my thoughts: Detective Lance and his daughters - I really believed the love between Lance and Sara. PB and CL really sold it for me. Their scenes were heartbreaking. In contrast, I never really buy that Laurel loves her father because of the way she speaks to him. Sara as the Canary - Loved her fight scene in the Clock Tower. You can tell it's really CL in some of those shots. I try to imagine KC doing that same fight scene and can only hope that they find a great stuntwoman who greatly resembles KC in both face and body. Laurel - Cringed at her "everyone leaves me" self-pity speech. Everything really is about her, in the world according to Laurel. Also, I agree that she could've gotten out of being on the prosecution team due to her longstanding relationship with the Queen family. In the real world, she would never be assigned to that team in the first place. She just sounded more concerned with her new job than anything else ("But I just got this new job, Ollie! I have to prosecute your mother and try to put her to death if she doesn't take my fantastic plea deal. How else am I going to succeed in the D.A.'s office?" (my words)). Moira and her children - In the jail scene where Oliver and Thea convince Moira not to take the plea deal but to fight, they say that they will still love her and support her regardless of what secrets are revealed at trial. Ironic, considering how they each react later in the season when Moira's BIG secret is revealed.

Regarding the mask scene - to me, it's like the classic scene in medieval or medieval fantasy movies (like LOTR) when the knight or king prepares for battle and his squire or second is the one to strap on his body armor and gauntlets.

Maybe they'll have the child magically age up to a CW demo-appropriate teenager, due to some magical serum like mirakuru. This has certainly happened on other shows...

Miscasting, miscasting, miscasting. Laurel on paper - Warm and compassionate lawyer who fights for the downtrodden and who always knew the real Oliver beneath the superficial playboy. Laurel as portrayed by KC - Disdainful and cold lawyer who uses blackmail to get what she wants and who hadn't a clue that Oliver was the Arrow. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Laurel really knew Oliver the best, then she would've been the first to suspect that he was the vigilante in Season 1.

In my opinion, Willa Holland and Emily Bett Rickards are about the same in terms of acting ability. WH has had more "dramatic" scenes in the past two seasons, but EBR has had more "comic" scenes. Sometimes comedy - having the right comic timing - is more difficult to do than drama. (I'm not talking about sitcom comedy but understated humor.) Both WH and EBR are much better actors than Katie Cassidy - again my opinion.

A perfect example is "Unthinkable". Felicity got Oliver thinking with her "let him [slade] outsmart you" comment, but Oliver was the one who came up with the idea of using Felicity as bait to get close enough to Slade to inject him with the mirakuru. He also had the guts to do the unthinkable in order to save the city. If Oliver was so dumb, then Diggle would not be letting him be the leader of Team Arrow and neither he nor Felicity would ally with him. I don't think Felicity is a Mary Sue. As others have mentioned, she is not liked by everyone and she is not perfect at all. She sometimes says things that are unworthy (like her Fantasy Island comment). I also don't see her "crush" on Oliver as teenager-like. Men and women of all ages can have "crushes" - look at all the celebrity worship that goes on in today's culture. It's how or if you act that matters.

I can see a lot of guys being interested in Felicity and Felicity being oblivious to that interest. I just picture some poor guy working in the IT department at QC making a point to pass by Felicity's office every day to say 'hi'. Then just when he works up the nerve to ask her out, she gets transferred to the corporate offices to become Oliver's executive assistant.

Helen Mirren played an older woman kicking ass in the Red movies. Liam Neeson played an older man kicking ass in a lot of recent movies. Tom Cruise is 50 years old, looks a lot younger, and played younger men kicking ass in his recent movies. I think both male and female actors want to play as young as they can get away with in order to expand their choice of acting roles.

Well, that was a disappointing mess of an episode. I hated the Lexi storyline. I got shades of Adria from Stargate SG-1, a young Glory from Angel (with her creepily delivered peace message), and even shades of Stephen King's The Stand (from Lexi's fake blonde appearance) - not to mention the special half-alien girl from V. The "Hitler youth" party has also been done in various shows, including V and the old children's show Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future. Then, Tom Mason as a masked hero was like a parody on a different show. This show started out as trying to be realistic - or as realistically as a show involving aliens can be - and has devolved into familiar sci-fi tropes.

The Arrow/Deathstroke final fight scene in "Unthinkable" made Entertainment Weekly's list of "The Fifty Best Scenes" (June 20, 2014 issue). EW viewed every episode of every show on TV over the past year to come up with this list of what they considered the 50 most award-worthy performances. This scene was #40 on the list. Reason: It's pretty impressive that Arrow got any recognition at all, considering the competition.

I watched the debut episode for Anthony Head but his accent changed from northern to southern American at times. I was also distracted by little Cosette (I think her name is Bixby?) which took me straight to Les Miz. The other upper tier angels allied with Gabriel looked like a cross between Power Rangers and Magneto. I think Claire is going to betray Alex - just a feeling.

I can see the scenario posted above by SonofaBiscuit happening. The EPs don't want to lose any fans but they also seem committed to Laurel becoming the Black Canary (with the jacket hand-off, etc.). Unfortunately, I don't see Laurel being killed off anytime soon. It's more likely that Sara will be killed off. They didn't kill Sara off in Season 2 because they already killed off Moira (one big death per season?) and because, I think, people expected it and there would've been a huge backlash. Maybe they think there will be less of a backlash if they further prop Laurel up in Season 3 and end it in a big dramatic arc with Sara's death.

When Laurel went to see her friend about a job (after she was fired from the DA's office), her friend told her that they couldn't hire her because there were legal disciplinary proceedings (for disbarment) pending against Laurel. Later, when Donner(?) hired Laurel back at the DA's Office (as part of the set-up), he told her that he had taken care of canceling those disciplinary proceedings. That's my recollection, but I could be wrong.

Given all the spoilers I've read, I'm starting to lean towards agreeing with those who think that Season 3 will include a real exploration of the Oliver/Felicity relationship (including drama involving 'Daniel' and the baby mama, and culminating in a real romance), plus a host of "Batman villains" - all as a way of offsetting the backlash of showing Laurel's journey toward becoming the Black Canary. I'm afraid, though, that Season 3 will end this way: the villains are defeated, but the Oliver/Felicity romance is over or suspended because it threatened their ability to defeat bad guys; and Laurel either becomes or is significantly on her way towards becoming the Black Canary because Sara has died.

Laurel didn't earn her job back. If I recall correctly, she was given her ADA job back as a set-up to catch Helena(?). Then after the set-up was done, the DA Kate Spencer tried to fire her again, but Laurel blackmailed her way back into her job by threatening to expose the set-up to the public. She also never lost her law license, but was only threatened with disbarment - so, another non-consequence.

I agree that the Lance family dinner was stupid. I think the EPs were wedded to the idea of doing a "Brothers & Sisters" type episode (as mentioned in one of their interviews). I also agree that it was a set-up for that melodramatic Oliver and Laurel hallway scene.

I visited The Flash forum finally and found a little Stephen-Amell-as-Oliver bashing going on in one of its threads. I defended SA respectfully. I'm posting this not to start a fan war over at that forum, but because I was surprised. I'm not surprised that not everyone likes every actor or character on a TV show. I'm surprised that someone at a Flash forum would bash an Arrow actor or the Arrow show there. The two shows are on the same network, they're not rivals.

I think Stephen Amell is doing a great job on Arrow as Oliver Queen - a character who has suffered through 5 years of trauma and learned to suppress his emotions and hide his true self. But everyone's entitled to his or her own opinion. I'm looking forward to The Flash and am trying to keep an open mind past the familiar character descriptions.

I feel like the Oliver/Sara relationship was kinda made up by the writers as they went along. When Oliver first unmasks Sara, she says something about how it's still Laurel "always and forever". Then as season 2 progresses, we see flashbacks and learn things that undermine the pre-island Oliver/Laurel relationship and what we thought happened with the Oliver/Sara relationship in the past. I've been thinking about why I want a slow burn for the Oliver/Felicity relationship. Part of it is fearing that, if they hook up too soon, they'll inevitably break up since the EPs want the show to last at least 5 years, More importantly, however, I just don't see them as true matches yet. (I don't mean she has to become a fighter and he has to become computer-proficient.) Their relationship is still evolving organically and realistically. Over the past two seasons, Felicity was Oliver's employee and subordinate. She also had a crush on Oliver and hero-worshipped him as the Arrow. She's viewed him as out of her league and not someone who would ever be interested in her romantically. To her, Oliver was someone who belonged with "gorgeous Laurel". While their relationship has evolved to where Felicity has become an integral part of Team Arrow and has felt free to argue and disagree with him, I still felt that she didn't think she matched up to Oliver. He is a hero and, while she feels quite competent when it comes to IT stuff, she doesn't feel like she is a hero (in my opinion). When Oliver told her she was not his employee but his partner, that was a .step forward toward true equality. The season 2 final beach scene was another step forward. She had just proved herself in a really heroic way and she also sensed the real possibility of something romantic between them. But they're not there yet - and there are other obstacles ahead.

I believe that happened on Veronica Mars. Veronica and Logan got together (again) and then broke up off-screen during the hiatus.

I read somewhere (don't recall where) that there's a small rabid group of Laurel/KC fans who go about the Internet viciously attacking anyone who criticizes Laurel or KC, as well as viciously attacking Felicity because they feel she has usurped Laurel/KC.

I also watched the rerun of this episode last night and was reminded again of how unlikeable Laurel was in it. After each Laurel scene, my immediate reaction was "what a bitch". She was disdainful to the poor traffic cop, her father, Oliver, Donner, and Felicity. The first time I saw this episode, I gave Laurel the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe that's her defense mechanism to hide her drinking and pill-popping. But she acted the same disdainful way later in the season after she sobered up. Three things especially struck me: 1. When she's pulled over by the cop, her immediate reaction is to identify herself as an ADA as a way to try to intimidate the cop to let her go. This is not the way a warm and compassionate lawyer who grew up a cop's daughter would act, even drunk (and honestly, I couldn't tell she was drunk). This is the way a spoiled rich celebrity would act. 2. When her father confronts her about her drinking and Laurel lashes back with how she remembers dragging him drunk out of bars and having him drunkenly passed out in her car, I felt her memory was less about concern with her father's well-being and more about anger at how it inconvenienced her (and her car) at the time. 3. When she talks about how she's had a rough time lately because she was kidnapped and almost murdered and her "boyfriend died", I was taken aback. When Tommy died, he was no longer her boyfriend and Laurel had just had sex with Oliver. Still referring to Tommy as her boyfriend seemed to be a manipulative ploy for greater sympathy from her father. It's a greater loss to lose your boyfriend, rather than your ex-boyfriend or just a friend, assuming you haven't slept with another guy in the meantime. Also, others have been kidnapped and almost murdered (Felicity, Thea) and they didn't start drinking and pill-popping afterwards. Sara went through even worse and emerged stronger. So I guess what the show is saying is that Laurel is weaker than all of them.

I meant no offense to NCIS fans. I watched NCIS in its early seasons (after watching JAG for many seasons) because I love Mark Harmon. But the episodes and plots started to feel interchangeable to me. I also found Abby increasingly annoying. NCIS is a still a decent show and clearly very popular from the ratings. But I view it more as "comfort food" than anything groundbreaking. That's what I meant. Shows like Firefly, Orphan Black, etc. are more original. Because of Joss Whedon, I expected Agents of SHIELD to be more edgy.

I agree with what Danny Franks posted above. It was a mistake centering the show around Coulson. I liked him in the Marvel movies but can't stand him in Agents of Shield. I even liked Clark Gregg in Much Ado About Nothing. But Coulson is a smug, annoying know-it-all who makes terrible decisions. He was meant to stay a supporting character. However, I do think Skye has potential if they downplay her special snowflake status and make her back story something really original. The show's producers really need to do a major overhaul of the main cast, or at least bring in a new, charismatic character who gels well with the rest of the cast. Casting is a large part of what makes the difference between a show like Firefly and a show like Agents of SHIELD. I think the show still has potential. It improved significantly after SHIELD went down and Ward was revealed as a Hydra agent. For me, my expectations were so high when Agents of SHIELD first aired because, you know, Joss Whedon. that some disappointment was unavoidable. But. quality-wise and originality-wise, I was expecting Firefly and I got NCIS.