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  1. shmeep

    Drink Your Drink: The Suits Drinking Game

    Drink whenever a swear word is awkwardly inserted into a sentence in a way nobody would do in real life.
  2. shmeep

    S04.E19: A Mad Tea Party

    Pet peeve: TV shows showing a Deaf person interpreting rather than hiring an interpreter for an event where Deaf people will be attending. I did see Bay interpreting for Daphne (and/or Melody?) at one point, but Daphne lipread Regina's entire speech from across the room to interpret it all for Melody. Lazy lazy writing. Completely unrealistic. Who is advising them these days? They used to do it on that horrible Sue Thomas, FBEye show that was on a few years ago. The main character was Deaf enough to need her service dog on the job but she never needed an interpreter for anything and whenever there was a Deaf person involved in a case, SHE always did all the interpreting. Horrible--and this is getting almost as bad. I used to think they at least tried to make Deaf culture realistic and to bring it to the audience in a way that was enjoyable, but now I find myself dreading each episode because I know I will be disappointed. I'm assuming Lily is just a teacher in the Deaf program and is helping get the entire thing off the ground. No way is Katherine qualified to teach Deaf students, nor is she qualified to teach ASL and interpreting to hearing students so I have no idea what she thinks she'll be doing there. And that professor lady is ridiculous and clearly has some kind of social disorder that prevents her from filtering her thoughts. She, of all people, should know that meeting one hearing parent does not mean deafness is not genetic. Of course we know it isn't in this case, but has she never heard of recessive traits or of dominant traits that may or may not result in deafness? It can be in a family for generations without anyone knowing, like blue eyes. My husband has Waardenberg syndrome, which is dominant, and his family is all hearing. Fifty percent of people with WS are Deaf. The rest might just have a white patch of hair or one blue eye or just really bright blue eyes or prematurely gray hair and they have no idea they could just as easily have been born Deaf so...why take one look at a hearing parent and jump to such a conclusion. Again, very bad writing this week.
  3. shmeep

    S04.E11: To Repel Ghosts

    I'm not sure if this was ever explained, but I still down know why a British girl is fluent enough in ASL to teach American Deaf students. I guess I haven't been paying close attention for a while, but did she say she had a Deaf brother at some point? If so, and if her family is still in England, wouldn't it make more sense for her to be fluent in the language her brother actually uses? Or did she have a brother with Down's Syndrome? She implied this in this episode and that seems completely new to me. Still, Down's isn't usually genetic and is far more common in older moms so I don't get this at all. Down's is a random chromosomal mix-up so having a sibling with it would almost never put someone at higher risk for passing it on to one's children. I find Lily confusing in general. I'm not saying it's impossible for Lily to have a baby with DS, but her reason for testing so early makes little sense.
  4. shmeep

    Deaf Culture and Magical Lipreading

    I've said it in other threads, but the thing that bugs me is the way Emmett's signing is clearly hearing dialogue interpreted and performed by a Deaf actor instead of dialogue a Deaf person would naturally use expressed in a Deaf way. Even the characters who are very good signers sign more like interpreters than Deaf people because the show obviously figures they can just have everything written the way they want because everything will just be translated to match the captions later on. It makes them all seem a bit unnatural. I used to enjoy Emmett's character, but now he seems sullen and shrugs a lot and seems devoid of personality. It's disappointing.
  5. I find the show moderately entertaining, but agree that a lot of it falls flat. I always knew it would be unfair to compare him with Colbert, but in one way, I can't help it. Larry is a likable guy with quite a lot going for him, but he lacks the one thing "Stephen" oozed more than anything else: gravitas. Larry's voice is thin and, as others have pointed out, his delivery has no confidence behind it. I miss the gravitas to which I had become accustomed most whenever I hear, "Tonightly!" That just rubs me wrong and makes me want to hit delete without watching.
  6. shmeep

    S04.E10: There Is My Heart

    The hospital scene was sadly realistic. I had to interpret what was going on for my husband while I was in the ER about to have emergency surgery once. The interpreter didn't come until I was already in surgery--and this was in an area with a huge Deaf population and tons of local interpreters. I was hoping Daphne would be inspired to try something new. It would have been interesting if she had decided to be a CDI (Certified Deaf Intepreter). They are brought in for Deaf people who are low language and struggle to understand (and be understood by) hearing interpreters. A CDI works as a team with the hearing interpreter, putting the original interpretation into a form that can be more easily understood and then taking what the Deaf client is saying and putting it into clearer ASL so the hearing interpreter can voice the real meaning more effectively. They are used in legal, medical, mental health...all kinds of settings. A CDI (a friend of mine, actually) was recently gently mocked on The Daily Show for his expressiveness during a press conference when all he was doing was putting ASL into the most Deaf-friendly form. Jon Stewart didn't seem to know the interpreter was Deaf. ANYWAY, Emmett really does bug me now. He mouths a lot of his lines instead of signing them and he makes a lot of helpless-looking gestures that could be part of his character or could be a weird acting tic that passes for signing but that really just makes it seem like it takes him forever to get a thought out. I really want to like him, but I just don't. I'm also not a fan of Daphne and her tight lips or her exaggerated signing. The other Deaf characters are really good, though. And more Russell Harvard, please!!
  7. shmeep

    S04.E08: Art Like Love Is Dedication

    First of all, I'm sure a lot of hearing students also get shunted through high school with a very limited ability to write well. Nothing new there. Deaf education is pretty sticky. Trust me when I tell you that many of the Deaf people I know with terrible English graduated from college without much improvement. When I was learning ASL, I also used to wonder why Deaf people couldn't just learn English from reading and watching subtitled movies. I'm sure there are instances of Deaf children who become avid readers and improve their English that way. It's not the norm, though. Our language is fully developed with all of its nuances by all of the incidental things we hear over our lifetime that grow and interconnect within our subconscious minds. Many things that hearing kids pick up without being taught have to be specifically explained to Deaf people--if anyone bothered to explain them at all. When I was interpreting at the high school level, I was shocked by all of the things some of the Deaf students did not know that I assumed everyone knew early in childhood. Many can read with decent understanding without fully understanding how the language works. Many can barely read. Sometimes when I watch TV with my husband and the character uses an idiom or phrase that I don't think anyone has ever explained to my husband, I ask him what he thinks it means. He's almost always wrong but it's very interesting to see how many things are missed when one can't hear. It seems obvious, but when you really think about it, it makes sense. This is why some of the writing for the Deaf characters is unealistic to me. It's not that they wouldn't be smart, it's that they use a lot of phrases that don't come naturally in sign and the interpretations look convoluted because they were obviously not written by a Deaf person. Emmett, in particular, uses a lot of idioms that I've never seen a Deaf person use because the translation into sign is so awkward. It always bugs me.
  8. shmeep

    S04.E08: Art Like Love Is Dedication

    I'm glad the show finally did some explaining about some Deaf people and the English language. It was petty well done and isn't something you see addressed often with Deaf characters. What was missing was the explanation of how a person needs to acquire an entire first language naturally before the age of five or there will always be some gaps. Travis had a non-signing family and wasn't able to pick up much English by lip reading, even magically, so he had virtually no first language until he picked up ASL along the way--possibly even as late as in middle school. This is very common. And despite all the credit Regina takes for Daphne's ability to pass for hearing, people like Daphne have much better language because even those first couple of years of hearing and figuring out concepts using words make a huge difference in both speech and in written abilities. Her brain was already wired for language by the time she lost her hearing. Emmett would be an example of Someone who was given ASL from birth so, having a fully-developed language in his head, he would have an easier time grasping the rules of other languages. I'm assuming he's supposed to be a decent writer, since he's going to USC. I know Deaf people in all three of these categories, but even some of the brightest and most successful Deaf people I know were not given enough language early on and have never been able to write very coherently. This episode implies that Travis could come out of it with decent English with enough work, but odds are that someone like him would never be able to write very well. Not that working to improve is a bad thing, but I've seen countless Deaf students who are otherwise very smart get caught trying to pass English 101 so they can proceed with their education. A lot of them never make it last that hurdle and they give up. My brother teaches English at a community college. He had his first Deaf student a few years back. It was her third attempt at passing English 101 and the interpreter had no training and was almost worse than having no one, but she was all they had. My brother was sensitive to Deaf issues because of me and he took a lot of time outside of class going over things with this student and marking her papers in front of her and writing explanations for her to study. He wasn't at all easy on her and she squeaked by with an C and was thrilled because passing the class meant she could eventiqlly get a degree.
  9. shmeep

    Deaf Culture and Magical Lipreading

    I've said that in the past. Sometimes even the all-signing scenes seem unnatural and slow. I suspect the signers are trying to remember how their ASL consultant told them how to sign all their lines. Much of the conversation among the Deaf characters is a bit odd because it's clearly written by hearing people who don't know how Deaf people express themselves and then the lines are interpreted into ASL so Deaf people are being depicted as having very hearing conversations in sign language. I wish the interpreting on the show went the other way. I wish the Deaf conversations could be written first in ASL (or even just improvised into ASL) and then captioned into English for the hearing audience. As it is now, we see Deaf people struggling to make their language fit (often awkwardly) into very specific English wording. They're all signing like interpreters instead of like Deaf people.
  10. shmeep

    Deaf Culture and Magical Lipreading

    Eri explained it very well. When a hearing person talks while signing, their brain gets the message that their thoughts are being fully communicated, but actually the English makes the ASL suffer. I've been interpreting for 18 years and have been married to a Deaf man for 15 years and I still find that my simcom (simultlaneous communication) always makes my ASL less clear and more difficult for the Deaf person to follow. I generally only simcom when I'm both a participant and an informal interpreter at the same time, like at family events I want my husband to be included in. It's pretty cheesy for a fluent signer to speak aloud while conversing with a non-oral Deaf person. I always feel that Bay does it so she can hear her own witty phrases, even if they don't ever translate into ASL. It's different when the Deaf person is also simcomming. I tend to match the style of the signer. If they go more English, so do I. If they go more ASL, so do I. If they use their voice, so do I. It's just an interpreter thing, I guess. I always try to be a good language match. Talking and signing is not a good idea while learning. All it does is to firmly establish a very English way of signing that will never look natural or fluent. It's natural for English speakers to want to do this, but it ruins the structure of ASL. That said, I'm certain the show does it for the reason Purplemonkey said. It saves on captioning to have all the hearing folks simcom. Still, some of the best scenes on the show are when everyone is signing. I wish it happened more often.
  11. While CART technology is amazing, interpreters are far from obsolete. With CART, how does te Deaf student participate? An interpreter allows the student to ask questions and to interact naturally in group work. Also, an interpreter can catch nuances that are missing in the written word and can make the classroom experience a lot easier for a Deaf student. Eyes get tired quickly and having to read every word and take notes and see what's going on on the board and watch the professor can be pretty daunting, even for students with very good English comprehension. I know it can be very helpful for some students, but they should always be given the option to have an interpreter if that's what they want. I've interpreted in classrooms with students who were using CART and those students, even the ones who didn't sign very well, usually found following the class easier by watching me and only glancing at the streaming words upon occasion. One of them told me that he was given everything that was said during all his classes every day and it was helpful, but that there was an incredible amount to sift through and it was hard to figure out which parts were relevant. If CART is set up remotely, there are likely more errors than there would be with an interpreter. Not having context or being able to see what's happening in the room makes it hard to understand. I've interpreted government meetings where CART was being used remotely and where I knew the specialized vocabulary and worked hard to make sure I understood what everyone was saying so I could interpret clearly, regardless of accents and complexity of subject matter. The captionist would frequently just type "unintelligible " whenever things were hard to follow. Not very helpful. I recently watched a play with a Deaf friend. There were interpreters and captions. It is nice to have both so the exact wording can be seen, but my friend, who has great English and speaks clearly, preferred to watch the interpreter because she could see the spirit of what was going on in a way captions could never capture. She's not even a native signer. So Daphne having an interpreter in class makes perfect sense, although someone with her magical lip reading abilities and near perfect speech could probably thrive with captions, even if that wouldn't help her in the study group. Her interpreter would not be an untrained CODA sitting off to the side so Daphne can't watch the teacher or the board. She would have two qualified interpreters trading off every twenty minutes and helping each other to make sure they are both getting all the complex vocabulary right. It's true that students sometimes miss classes when they have interpreters. I'm sure they also miss when they have CART. I don't know how much CART costs these days, but I know they make a lot more per hour than I do.
  12. shmeep

    Deaf Culture and Magical Lipreading

    Yep. The interpreter should always be in a position so the Deaf consumer can see the speaker, the board, and the interpreter as much as possible. Some set ups are tricky, but sitting off to the side like that is a huge no no. Makes no sense.
  13. shmeep

    Deaf Culture and Magical Lipreading

    Those a are all really good questions and not at all offensive. You're absolutely right about which things a real Deaf person would struggle to understand. Every Deaf person is different, of course, but what you see on the show isn't even a little bit realistic. It's estimated that thirty percent of the English language is visible on the lips. The rest is guesswork and context. Some Deaf people are very skilled at filling in the blanks and getting the gist of a conversation while others couldn't even begin to follow a spoken conversation. My husband is a wonderful lip reader, but he is at his best when he is guiding the conversation--asking questions and anticipating the responses and then recognizing them on the lips. When the subject is changed or when there is a group conversation, he is completely lost. It's realistic that Daphne would be good at reading lips, but not while walking or in the dark a or when the head is turned the other way or when unfamiliar terms are being thrown at her. Emmett, being Deaf of Deaf, would likely not be able to catch as much, since he was raised and schooled among signers. He would have good language in general, but reading lips wouldn't come naturally to him. Travis strikes me as a lower-functioning Deaf person, meaning he isn't as book-smart as the others and possibly didn't have much language of any kind growing up. He probably wouldn't be a great lip reader in real life. Just speculation based on what I have encountered over the years. My husband has good speech and decent English but he doesn't speak to strangers very often. He would rather write back and forth if he has a question because he has no idea in advance of how well he will be able to understand the person he's approaching and he knows his speech is so good that the person would likely not understand right away that he can't hear them. Writing makes everything clear immediately.
  14. shmeep

    S04.E01: And It Cannot Be Changed

    You guys are right on with the interpreter situation. It would NEVER be the Deaf student's responsibility. And while it's true that not all interpreters could interpret such a class, there would be plenty who could. Interpreters are quick studies and don't always need to fully grasp the material to interpret it accurately. I've interpreted plenty of things that make no sense to me but as long as I had vocabulary worked out with the Deaf student and knew how each term was used, we got by quite well. If I had to chose between a person who had been trained to interpret and a CODA with no professional experience but subject matter knowledge, I'd go for the pro terp every time. CODAs are often brilliant interpreters, but they need training and experience to be any good at it. I can see right off the bat that this guy will not follow the Code of Professional Conduct and will cause problems for Daphne. I love that an interpreter is finally getting a storyline, but hate that he's not a real interpreter.
  15. shmeep

    Deaf Culture and Magical Lipreading

    Those are great observations, Tereya. You're not wrong about any of it and Eri's response matches up with what has been my experience as well. I wouldn't say it's disrespectful to speak while signing, but it does annoy some Deaf people. Others don't mind it at all. Like Eri, I find that it depends on the situation and on the person I'm interacting with. I tend to try to match the signing style of the Deaf person because I'm an interpreter and thats what we're trained to do. If they mouth a lot of words or even simcom (use simultlaneous communication), I find myself doing it as well but it's usually much more natural for everyone for me to turn my voice off. I agree that the writers tend to have the hearing person speak aloud to cut down on subtitles, but that really isn't giving the audience enough credit. At this point, for example, Bay would be having voice-off conversations with her boyfriend. Making her simcom all the time makes her signing look a lot worse than it is because it's really hard to do what she's doing in a way that looks and sounds natural and her ASL suffers as a result. For me, simcom is used when I'm both participating in and interpreting a conversation between hearing and Deaf who don't all speak the same language. My simcom isn't perfect, but I've been doing it for twenty years so it's a lot better than what you see on the show.