TheRealT

They're so... thirsty. You would think that a happily married couple with a "perfect" family would be less concerned about how they are perceived and determined to check every. single. box. to prove how "perfect" they are. Who wondered or cared whether they're having sex or not? Really? Do people pregnant with their third child together really have to make a public announcement that they had sex? Does anyone need to publicly announce that they had sex?

Kail is ridiculous with her pronouncements about Chris. Literally every other week, it's like, "Chris is totally not going to be involved with our children and he's not part of our lives," then he's with her/the kids a day or two later. OBVIOUSLY, she's super open to him being involved whenever/however he chooses, but she also seems to be invested in pretending that she doesn't care whether he's involved or not. OK, SUPER BORING, LET'S MOVE ON. Really, is anyone breathlessly checking their IG to find out whether Kail and Chris are "cool" or not? Does anyone care? Why can't she keep their daily/hourly fluctuations to herself????

It's weird seeing them talk about how COVID is affecting them financially while they're pretending that they're not getting paid by MTV.

Yup. I can believe (and think Kail hopes/believes) that Chris might be interested in being there for Creed's first Xmas so he can post photos on IG. She has also probably strongly implied/outright stated that she has some nice gifts for him if he graces her with his presence. It seems like Chris' family is at least somewhat involved with Lux (and presumably Creed), so I wouldn't be surprised if they bought gifts for the kids/encouraged Chris to see them on Xmas, so that would be additional motivation. Chris could literally drop by for 30-60 minutes, take some pics/video for IG, drop off presents he didn't even pay for, pick up his gifts from Kail "and the kids," and even take a quick ride on the sex swing if he could stretch it to 75 minutes before his ride picked him up. I'm sure Kail would pay for an Uber if it came to that.

Kail lies a lot and shades her story to fit her narrative of being a scrappy survivor who, with no support, has achieved great success professionally and as a mom/person. She has uncles, cousins, and, until recently, a grandmother on Suzi's side. I believe that she did not grow up being close to those people and isn't close to them now, but she knows them and has, it seems, at least a decent/neutral relationship with some/most of them. I can believe and understand that she didn't want to spend Xmas with any of them, but it seems like she could spend Xmas with them if she wanted to. She also has friends/hangers-on with whom she could probably spend Xmas if she wanted to. She certainly could host Xmas at her McMansion and get lots of those people to attend (as well as her kids) if she wanted to. She obviously doesn't want to do any of that (unless she's lying about her Xmas plans). I totally understand and have no problem with her not wanting to celebrate Xmas traditionally or at all, but I think she's lying to try to seem interesting and/or drum up sympathy. She doesn't have to worry about having 3 happy dads. It seems that she coordinates Isaac's and Lincoln's time with their dads so they are with her at the same time. I imagine that Jo and Javi would like to have their kids with them every Xmas, but I'm sure they're fine with having them every other year. I can't imagine them complaining or hassling Kail since everyone understands that they have 50/50 custody and the kids spend half their time at each home. That has been the norm for them for years. If Chris cares where/with whom his kids spend Xmas, he knows he only has to lay a little schmooze on Kail to get her to do whatever he wants. In reality, "trying to fit Chris into the mix" has meant Kail taking unilateral actions to try to make herself more attractive/accessible to him. It's a joke to suggest that he's asking for/demanding time with his kids and she's struggling to balance that with Jo and Javi's demands. Jo and Javi's time with their kids is set by court orders (plus when Kail asks them to take the kids more to accommodate her having time to herself/to pursue Chris). I don't buy that either of them is calling her asking for extra time (except maybe on rare occasions). I can believe that Chris pops up at random times asking to see his kids, but I think she probably enjoys that (and does whatever rearranging she has to to accommodate him).

I totally get that POV, but I also think that Vee probably figures that she has to get along with/put up with/suck up to Kail regardless, so she might as well make a few bucks while she's at it. Obviously, the ideal choice would be to have nothing/little to do with Kail, but they are co-parenting a child and enmeshed with each other's other kids. Also, if I were Vee, I wouldn't see it as "sucking from Kail's professional teat" so much as "getting a small portion of what Kail owes me back." It's not like Kail has "earned" her fame on her own and Vee is coming along late in the story to try to capitalize. For one, Kail hasn't really "earned" her fame. She lucked into getting cast on the show as a teen (as did Jo) and she's been such a trainwreck that they've kept her on. For another, Vee is hardly a "hanger-on" who's been around for a minute and is trying to cash in on Kail's hard work (and I don't even think that would be "wrong"). I think that Jo (and, by extension, Vee) has equal standing with Kail in terms of some kind of "moral" or "earned" right to capitalize on TM2. She's been on the show for years, albeit as a secondary character, and her "podcast persona" (though I've never listened to the podcast) is real. With all of that said, I certainly get that it would be more "principled" to not do the podcast with Kail, but bills don't pay themselves and I don't think she's hurting anyone, so I can't really blame Vee.

I don't believe it. She claims that the kids were with their dads on Xmas last year as well. Don't custody agreements usually alternate holidays? So if the dads had the kids last year, this should be Kail's year. If they always spend Xmas with their dads, it's because Kail agreed to it. I also don't believe that she hasn't discussed Xmas with Isaac or Lincoln and has no idea what their desires or expectations are. They're old enough to know that the holiday is coming up, so I would assume that they've brought it up even if she hasn't. I can totally believe that Kail offered to let Jo and Javi have their boys on Xmas for the 2nd year in a row so she can lure Chris over for a Very Special Holiday with a bunch of gifts for Chris like framed prints of her recent boudouir shots, a ride on the sex swing, and whatever else he wants.

But you don't have a BRAND, though!

And the cameras. It was for the cameras too; don't ever forget the cameras! Sadly, it seems like the cameras are kind of Kail's family at this point. I'm sure everyone who's had long-term personal relationships with her is EXHAUSTED with her never-ending drama. Even in a "normal" situation, I don't think anyone particularly cares about the sex reveal for one's fourth child, so I imagine that most moms of 3 going on 4 don't make a big deal of it. But Kail seems to really enjoy being pregnant/having infants and the attention that brings for her. Before, she used to make a big deal of how she didn't find out the baby's sex before it was born. Which, fine, who cares? But Kail seemed to think it was soooo cute and interesting and would go on about it anytime someone made the mistake of asking about the sex. Even with Creed, she was like, "OMG, this is the first time I've found out the gender before the baby was born; it's so weird!" I think she thinks it makes an interesting storyline that makes her look good. She doesn't realize that there's no way to make herself look "good" at this point, besides maybe announcing that she is getting a multi-year contraceptive, seeking intensive psychological treatment, and leaving the show.

Yeah, it's sad how Kail thinks her sex reveals of all her unplanned/ill-advised babies are so cute and interesting. Seriously, does anyone outside one's immediate family ever care? And even with family, do they care that much? It was so pathetic and grasping when she was trying to make a "storyline" (or whatever) by asking Lincoln why he doesn't want a sister, etc. WHO THE FUCK CARES? At best, it's a point of minor interest whether one's kids (or anyone) want the next kid to be a boy or a girl. If your 6-y-o "wants a boy" and you know you're having a boy, what's the point of trying to convince him to want a girl? It's just a stupid attempt to gin up "drama" or "interest" around the most boring thing ever. The good news for Kail's kids or anyone else who was disappointed/cared at all is that Kail will certainly have more sex reveals in the future, so the girl wishers still have their shot! That explains why Vee is doing the podcast with her. I was wondering, just because it's obviously risky to get involved with Kail on additional levels, particularly around business. If I were Vee, I'd be extremely hesitant to have a shared Costco membership with Kail, much less a public professional enterprise. But I imagine that Kail's audience for marketing her shit is much bigger than Vee's, so I get why Vee is taking the gamble.

Does Cole even hunt? It seems like he's very into the aesthetics of hunting-themed stuff, but does he ever talk/post about actually going hunting? I can't imagine Chelsea being too supportive of a hobby that would require him to be away for hours/possibly even days at a time, nor can I see her being into joining him hunting.

Yeah. Are they supposed to be the "perfect family" version of Martha Stewart or something? I don't see why anyone would be interested in the De Boers if they aren't on MTV. They are not designers; they don't have good, or even average, taste; there is nothing interesting about them. Their products, at least thus far, are overpriced and unremarkable. Seriously, where is the growth potential for their "brand"? I don't believe it was their choice to leave the show. If they were super fired up about how their privacy was being violated or whatever, I think they would have made a statement along those lines. Not even necessarily, "Fuck MTV and how they've screwed our family!," but something "dignified" about how they've come to a point where they feel like they need to be more private and focus on their growing family, blahblah, respectable, mature cakes. The vague, "It's been great, but we're done now and putting all of our eggs into the 'our brand' basket, which hasn't provided even half the income we've gotten from MTV..." just doesn't ring true.

Yeah. I think Briana intended to come off as "Bad ass bitch/mama bear taking care of business and calling her trifling baby daddies out," but... no. When you bareback with teenagers/strangers you met at the club minutes/hours ago, you automatically lose the "moral high ground," especially when you refuse to put the purported daddies' names on the birth certificates. Luis (and maybe Devoin too) would be totally justified in questioning whether he is her child's father. With Luis, allegedly, she got pregnant when they fucked shortly after meeting in a club. If Luis weren't so trifling (which has worked out to Bri's advantage), he would have questioned paternity from the beginning and gotten a test to either prove that he was Stella's dad (and get parental rights) or that he wasn't (in which case he wouldn't owe Briana shit). Briana is all self-righteous and entitled like they were married when Stella was conceived, but... no. She talks about the threat of "putting them on child support" against her baby daddies as if she's doing them some kind of favor to not do so, but, in reality, she has no legal right to "put them on child support" since they're not her kids' legal fathers. Arguably, they're doing HER a favor to pay anything for the kids. She can't get child support for the time before she named them as the dad(s) (which she may or may not know, considering how dumb she is), so she's limited in how much she could get for "putting them on child support" even if she decides to take the plunge (which I doubt she would because she seems to think she's being clever/strategic to deprive her kids' dads of any legal rights to them). It's just so weird/horrifying to me that she seriously expects/hopes that single moms and people who support single moms will be like, "You go, Bri, tell those trifling douches what's what!" She's an incredibly irresponsible and stupid mother. She cries over her daughters' plight of having sucky dads while exhibiting ZERO self-awareness about how HER actions let to the situation and continue to make it worse. She seems to believe that every dude in the club is more responsible for considering how their actions might affect her daughters than she is. Which isn't surprising, I guess, since, apparently, Roxanne sees it the same way. It's insane. Kail is just WAYYYYY too much. She decided not to pursue a relationship with her sister because her sister wasn't doing enough for her and she can't have any more inconsistent/unreliable people in her kids' lives. But, at the same time, she's getting impregnated by Chris repeatedly and telling her kids that she loves him. Ok. And why does she feel the need to make a big, public announcement every time she and Chris are on the outs? I've seen several statements along the lines of, "Chris isn't in my life and he won't be involved in helping me raise our children..." (inevitably followed up by IG posts of him with the kids/at her house). The reality is that they have a volatile "relationship" and he's in and out of her/the kids' lives. There is no need to post that he's out of their lives for good on SM every time they have a fight (knowing that he has court-ordered visitation scheduled the next day). Just stop. Grow the fuck up. She has 4 kids and is pushing 30.

Yeah, I totally agree. If it weren't for TM, Kail would totally have 5 kids by 6 men before she turned 30. TM has only slightly slowed that trajectory and enabled her to get a college degree along the way. I assume that her obsession with Chris will eventually peter out (probably because he marries/impregnates someone else) and she will have kid(s) with someone else. She's young enough to have kids by 5/6/7/10 men before she's done procreating. She seems to like having babies and the dramatic "relationship impact" they can bring, so I wouldn't expect her to stop voluntarily.

Let's be real. If Chris said, "I'll marry you if you move to Alaska/Timbuktu/Vanuatu with me," Kail would totally take all of her kids, behind their fathers' backs, and let the chips fall where they may while Jo and Javi tried to get their kids back from the other side of the world. He probably wouldn't even have to marry her. If he even offered to commit to her and to move far away from his other ho's, that would probably be enough.

I feel like they must have gotten fired with the concession to allow them to say they were quitting. They are building a house, have a baby on the way, and (in their minds) they had just perfected a "strategy" of using Aubree's alleged and/or real issues with Adam and his family as their storyline, thus protecting their own privacy while continuing to collect the MTV bucks. It seems far more likely that MTV was like, "Yeah, this thing of having your whole story be about a 10-y-o getting a phone and becoming increasingly alienated from her paternal family isn't really working..." I feel like most of Chelsea's real drama is boring. If they didn't shield themselves, I imagine scenes of her in a fetal position or shrieking incoherently because the babies won't stop crying/she gained 3 pounds/Grandma Donna wants to talk to her about Aubree/etc. and Cole trying to manage the crying babies while tending to her (probably with assistance from Aubree). Obviously, stuff like that would burst the bubble of how "perfect" the De Boers are, so we couldn't have that. I truly believe that Chelsea, Cole, and maybe some smarter person(s) sat down to figure out a way to be interesting enough to stay on the show while hiding all of their real problems so Chelsea and Cole could build and maintain their De Boer brand of being "the perfect family." They came up with the idea of featuring how Aubree was growing up, getting a phone, and realizing that she didn't want to have as much contact with Adam/the Linds. It's so weird and disgusting. Maybe they first pitched focusing the season on the toddlers and how they were growing so fast and showing so much more of their personalities, but MTV was like, "Bitch, please... but maybe we could do something with the 'Aubree and the Linds' idea..."

I think that, years ago, they said that Randy was keeping a bank account for Aubree with all of the money Adam paid in child support (maybe Chelsea has taken over control since she "grew up" by marrying Cole). I think their idea was to give all the money to Aubree when she turned 18 and be like, "Your mom (later- 'and Cole') have paid for everything your whole life. Here's the money your dad paid for child support." I'm not sure why they thought that would be some kind of moral victory, but, ok. I believe that Randy was involved in helping Chelsea manage her money for the first however many years of TM, but I don't think he's some kind of financial genius who parlayed her low 7 figures into a fortune big enough to support her family of 6+ in solidly upper-middle class style for 50 years. I don't think Chelsea has wasted money like a lot of the moms, but she seems to have been living a pretty comfortable lifestyle for the past few years (at least) and she's about to have 4 kids and a big house/property when neither she, nor Cole, has a steady job. I don't know what their mortgage/expenses are, but I would assume that Chelsea couldn't earn much in the near future (and the point about daycare for 3 toddlers is correct). She doesn't strike me as the type who'd be motivated/happy to stay up working on some part-time money-making venture after putting the babies to bed to make ends meet. I'm not sure what Cole's professional background/prospects are, but I wouldn't assume that he has a bunch of well-paying jobs readily available to him (especially now).

To me, it's stupid to "stan" anyone, but I could maybe see if someone really admired an author or human rights activist or something and felt obligated to vociferously defend them to strangers online. Personally, I don't care enough about anyone on reality TV to truly lose my shit over someone criticizing them online. Obviously, I participate in these forums and I have my opinions, but, at the end of the day... I don't really care. Even if I strongly disagree with what someone says about these people. So I think people who get really extra about anything said about these people have some kind of issue(s). To be clear, I don't think Chelsea is funny or cute, but I assume that some people do. She seems to think she's being funny/cute sometimes, so I assume the people she's close to (at least Cole/her friends) agree. Like when she talks in funny voices or makes lame snarky comments (I guess). I can't imagine voluntarily spending 10 minutes with Chelsea and can only imagine talking to her at all if we were neighbors or our kids went to school together or something and, in those cases, I would definitely want to keep it as close to "Hi, how are you? Take care; bye!" as possible.

Yes. Also, I think Kail has tried/continues to try to be this "cool, sophisticated, wealthy, together, independent" chick who has the funds to buy a new house closer to him if that's what he needs to be a more involved dad/"partner" or do whatever else he needs to make their "relationship" work. Obviously, it's ridiculous, but I think she hoped that Chris (who, I assume, was telling her, "Yeah, I'd love to come see you/spend time with Lux, but I just can't find a way to travel the 30-60 minutes that would require...") would be like, "Wow, Kail is so dedicated to me and our family that she's willing to move to make it easier for me to be involved. I can see now that she really loves me and I need to step up, for Lux and for her..." Obviously, absurdly ridiculous to anyone who's not sprung on him like Kail. Jo and Javi have jobs, significant others (in all fairness, Chris probably does too...), other kids, etc., but she decided that it made more sense to inconvenience them and their TWO kids (who have school, extra-curriculars, etc.) in order to make things more convenient for unemployed, (officially, I guess) unattached Chris. I assume that she offered to/did buy him a car since it would obviously make so much more sense to do that (if the issue were actually that Chris needed help to travel 30-60 mins. to see his only child and "the woman he loves"). I assume that she told him he could live with her (obviously, for free) AND she would get him a car, but, apparently, he turned all those offers down. So then she decided to buy a new house closer to him, which is obviously stupid under those circumstances. She never says, "Chris told me that if I moved 30 minutes closer to him, he'd come by regularly to see Lux." He never told her that. She did it speculatively and... he wasn't interested in spending more time with her/Lux, even if she lived across the street from him.

Yeah, I think any adults who idolize Chelsea have to be coming from some level of delusion and overidentification with her. I'm no Chelsea fan by any means, but I could understand if an adult thought she was funny/cute or whatever and/or found her refreshingly down-to-earth and "normal" without feeling like she's any kind of "ideal" or "role model." I don't strongly identify with her, but I can also see how a lot of unexceptional (no offense intended) women might see her as a richer/more glamorous version of themselves, someone they could see themselves being friends with, though she's on TV/SM/etc. and might give her more credence as a "style influencer." But I can't see any adult modeling after/comparing their life to Chelsea in a non-pathological way. To me, there's nothing to "idolize" about her. She's extremely ordinary, or even sub-par, but lucky. I don't even say that as an insult to her; to me, it's just the obvious reality. She's a decent mother (compared to the others on the show), but not a mom I'd idolize at all. To me, she's kind of fucked up as a parent.

Yeah, it seems like an odd time to quit your cushy, super-lucrative job when you have a baby on the way and you're building a huge house (years after the only gainfully employed one quit his job). I agree that they are either so delusional that they think they can have careers as SM influencers/"designers"/whatever without MTV and/or they think they can get their own show. Down on the Farm with the De Boers sounds like the most boring show ever to me, until I imagine a show about Chelsea and Cole running their new clothing line or going on awesome date night outings around Sioux Falls. Deborings indeed.

I'm pretty sure that it varies at least a little from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but, generally, you can give your baby whatever last name you want (I think even a name different from either parent in some/many cases). If a mom lists a man as the baby's dad and he signs the BC (effectively agreeing that he is the dad), he is the legal dad and has equal parental rights to the child. If a woman wants to list a man as the dad and he refuses to sign the BC, they have to go to court/get a paternity test/etc. to prove that he is the dad. If there's a paternity test (which can be court-ordered) that proves that a man is the kid's biodad, he is legally responsible whether he agrees or not. I believe that in some jurisdictions if a man is legally married to the mom, he is presumed to be the legal father unless he can prove otherwise, so a man wouldn't be able to refuse paternity of his wife's child without proving that the child isn't his biologically. Leah's sister was in the process of divorcing her husband when she got pregnant with the Costa Rican guy's baby, so she had to sign a declaration (or whatever) that her husband wasn't the kid's dad to get him off the hook for any legal responsibility. In Chelsea/Aubree/Adam's specific case, Chelsea listed Adam on the BC, he signed it, and she voluntarily gave Aubree his last name (I think maybe Randy wanted Aubree to be a Houska instead. I do vaguely recall that the issue was discussed.). At some point when Aubree was an infant, Adam texted Chelsea that he would sign papers to give up rights to "that mistake" (or something equally disgusting to call your child). I'll bet Chelsea wishes she had taken him up on the offer now, but she didn't, so she's stuck with him as Aubree's biological and legal dad (even if he has limited custody/visitation rights).

And note the (seemingly) fresh scratch on his hand/wrist. #DVisalwayswrong

Yeah, putting your child's father's name on the BC isn't some kind of favor or endorsement. In most cases, I see it as basically being honest (with your child, the government, the dad, and the world). I could understand, in some cases, if a mom felt like her kid's biodad was a danger to the kid or something and, accepting that she would not be entitled to any kind of financial or other support, she opted not to put him on the BC. Or I could accept if a mom thought her kid's dad was dangerous and listed him on the BC, but took legal/practical steps to restrict his access to the kid. My problem with Briana is that it seems that her plan was/is that Devoin would have no legal rights to Nova, but he would be morally obligated to pay child support and provide whatever other parenting services Briana demanded (while never having any rights to see Nova or make any decisions regarding her upbringing). She thought his family should be similarly obligated. So Devoin would send her a check every month (I guess she'd decide the amount since she couldn't go to court for support); pay for whatever else she demanded; come to her apartment to see Nova regularly, 100% at her discretion, abiding by her rules; etc. His family would also visit at Chez Coven unless and until Briana decided they were worthy of visitation outside the Coven's scrutiny; provide Briana's idea of an acceptable level of gifts/supplies for Nova; and (presumably) step up if Briana was short on cash to provide whatever Briana decided Nova needed at that time. No one would be allowed to question Briana in any way (because they'd be so grateful for all that she was doing for her daughter and understand that she held all control over their beloved daughter/granddaughter/niece and be afraid of pissing her off, lest they lose access to Nova). That's sick and not a "plan" that was hatched in consideration of Nova's best interests. Yet, Bri seems to feel entitled to having things that way, even now, years later, when Devoin has "stepped up" as a dad more than he was legally obligated to (because that was 'not at all') and Nova has obviously formed an emotional attachment to him and his family.

Whoa. Come to think of it, Kail does have some kind of weird hair obsession. In all fairness, maybe Chris decided to cut off all of his dreads after Kail gave him a violent/uneven haircut (the scissors in the photo support that theory). (Not that it's ok to assault someone and cut off their hair if they subsequently cut it more.)