CinnamonCat

I never said their actions were similar in their badness. What I meant is that RT knows how to make his audience love someone they previously hated, that's all.

Two words: Logan. Echolls. Now, I'm not necessarily saying it will happen, or that those two are even in the same ballpark when it comes to villainy. All I'm saying is, if the pretty, pretty Blaine were to turn over a new leaf, complete with a nicely written redemption arc and a swoon-worthy speech or two... I might just suspend my disbelief enough to buy it. What can I say? I'm a weak woman.

Some spoilers for season 2: From TV Line: From Sepinwall:

Wow. Just... Wow. I loved how complex the episode was. How it didn't dumb down anything. No big speeches, no hammering in of anything. Just these characters we've come to know, facing the consequences of their decisions. And now I must wax poetic because this show has messed with my brains, people. Pun intended. Lt. Suzuki: What a Snape thing to do, (trying to) reveal the secrets that haunted you as you die, in an attempt to appear heroic. Which you, just as Snape, weren't. Blaine: You conniving, sociopathic dipshit. You never really cared about them at all. And yet we'll see you next season, probably asking for Liv's help while an angry zombie mob is breathing down your neck. Ravi: You beautiful, curious, caring soul. Actual heart of this show. The way he tried to reassure Liv, begged her to wait... What a wonderful human. But, also? When Major and Peyton find out you knew all along, dude, you're fucked. Major: No one knew you had it in you. Probably not even you. Still, well done. Liv: Oh, Liv. Beautiful, confused, selfish Liv. Now here's someone who really wasn't cut out for this whole saving-the-world thing. All the way, you had no idea what to do, did you? Not a clue. At the beginning of the season, you realised you could help people, and that helping people would help you. Now, you've learnt that you should help people even when it doesn't help you. That sometimes, helping means not helping. You've come so far, and you've got such a long way to go. And finally, Rob Thomas: I missed you, you devious bastard. Well done, cast&crew, this was a damn fine season.

Both peppy Liv and stoner Liv were great, as were Ravi and Clive's reactions to her. "Be aggressive! B-E aggressive!" "Don't go so Method." No way a shitty high school band has a website that fancy. Ravi and Major continue to be a delight. "What the hell kind of questions do people usually ask you?" "Yes, please, let's be politically correct when speaking of zombies!" The sketch artist returns! This is a Rob Thomas show! That fight in the kitchen was great. I loved how realistic it was, no fancy choreography, just stabby stuff. Good job by the show to make the viewers both feel for Liv and understand Peyton. God damn it, Major. What are you thinking? Are you even thinking? Shit, what happened to the goth girl? Oh, poor Ravi. You do look pretty damn good in that suit.

Well, I'm not talking about actual results here, but about their intentions. They basically wanted another Buffy or Veronica Mars... But, like, with ratings!

From what I've read, the CW basically came to Rob Thomas and asked him to make them female-led show, because they wanted, among other things, better results in the female demo. That's where my comment was coming from.

Newsflash: the majority of TV characters are attractive, simply because they're played by attractive people. The viewers are invited by shows to appreciate that. That does not mean that viewers, regardless of their gender, sex, sexuality, political affiliation or any other aspect of their personality, suddenly become incapable of judging the characters' other qualities. Not all users here have their gender specified. Furthermore, the majority of the posters here are, IMO, female -- this is, after all, a show targeted at women -- so I'd say that, proportionally, there are fewer women here acknowledging Bradley James's attractiveness than there are male posters acknowledging, say, Emilia Clarke's attractiveness on a Game of Thrones forum. Lastly, are we going to pretend there were no comments on Rose McIver's appearance, both on show and off? Oh, right. Females are to be ogled and accept it as a compliment. Right.

Oooh, me tender womanly loins tingle and itch after them wickedly charming, yet secretly not nice (gasp!) men! Whatever will poor, shallow, confused me do?!

Wow, the scene where Liv realised she'd never told Major about zombies hurt. My hat's off to Rose McIver. I did wonder why in the hell would Johnny Frost be following Liv around like that, but didn't call that he was a hallucination. Yep, the moment she found an already half-eaten passenger on the beach and feasted on their occipital lobe -- she told Ravi about it in a previous episode. Damn, I was hoping for the police chief to join teams with Liv against Blaine, but no such luck. Still, gotta love Blaine. "John Deaux." Hee.

I actually did know that, and only aimed to share an anecdote, but thank you nevertheless. :)

Not that this has much to do with the topic, but I used to volunteer in an HIV/AIDS support centre, and our boss once told us that while it's possible to get HIV through oral sex, it almost never happens, because "Who the fuck gives head with an open wound in their mouth?!" So, yeah. Life lesson acquired. I think that no one is sure how the zombie virus is transferred in-show either. Blaine knew that scratching worked because that's how he turned Liv. But besides that, no one knows for sure, and it's way too dangerous to experiment.

Spoilers for season two from here: Sounds interesting!

Thanks, Latverian Diplomat!

Liv: "I'm the freakin' murder victim whisperer!"

His face got propeller-ed badly, but apparently that's it. What's double tapping? This show just keeps getting better and better. I love that they took a tough choice and made everyone feel so many different consequences. Also, the serialized parts are taking over more and more, which is always a good thing in my book, especially when done as smartly as here. Loved how the boys all gave Liv their love and compassion in such diverse ways. Well done for not making alcoholism a joke, show. However, Liv twirling drunkenly was pure gold. As for the not realising what that (FUCKING CREEPY) dude drinking her blood meant, didn't Liv pass out right after that? Maybe she was too drunk to remember. Or she thought a propeller to the frontal love would suffice. Oh, and: "I'm the freakin' murder victim whisperer!"

I just saw that the writers' Twitter account posted this picture: While Major's hiding his gun in the drawer, there's a book by Anton Chekhov on top of the drawer. Brilliant.

That's what I was thinking too! Except in this case the bad guy lived.

Gym guy: "You'll eat... human brains... to get bigger muscles?" Liv: "For god's sake, cerebellum sashimi is people!" Luta: "Fecal matter? That's, like, poo, right?" Liv: "No one's lip-synching to Frozen!" Julian: "All aboard the pain train. First stop: Hand Francisco!"

I thought the way the guys who found the body acted all macho and then ran away screaming like little girls* was funny and very true. So many great lines: "You'll eat... human brains... to get bigger muscles?" "For god's sake, cerebellum sashimi is people!" Hannibal reference? "Fecal matter? That's, like, poo, right?" "No one's lip-synching to Frozen!" "All aboard the pain train. First stop: Hand Francisco!" Oh, and is this show trying to kill me? First romantic Bradley James, then dirtied up Bradley James, then postcoitally nekkid Bradley James? THEN THEY FUCKING KILL HIM. Sheesh. LOL at Blaine wanting to 'jam' with Lowell. Loved Liv catching the killer. "Nerd!" Oh, Major, you dumb, dumb person. Wouldn't Lowell have known that a stab to the arm would do nothing to a zombie? Farewell, you pretty, pretty boy. *For those who think this is sexist, have you ever heard a little girl scream? ETA: The not-at-all-subtle slam of the drone technology? Oh Rob Thomas, I missed thee.

But their stories will be connected to Liv's story. Or do you genuinely think that Major's investigation won't affect Liv? That Liv will sit idly by and let Blaine kill marginalized kids? Those stories are bound to interlude. Frankly, you're putting the show in a lose-lose situation here: if Major served no purpose outside being Liv's ex, everyone would complain about that. If there were no one to remind Liv of what she's lost, we as audience wouldn't be aware that she has lost something, or we'd be told, but not shown. And here we have a reminder of what once was who also serves as a factor in the ongoing story (a rare feat in and of itself), whose main flaw is the fact that he's... white. Let me clarify: we are shown the parts of each character's stories that are relevant to Liv's. Clive and Ravi's relevance is work-related, Major's and Blaine's isn't. That, I believe, is all there is to it.

You said it was also brought up on this forum, which it is not. Very few women despise actual nice guys. However, we do despise "nice guys". ETA: If the writers really are I say that's a welcome change, since a good 85% of TV currently made is based on pandering to men's vile desires. Some men's, that is. Not all men's.

I'm pretty sure both Blaine and Lowell have mentioned getting visions, or at least one of them did.

You might have noticed that the show is called iZombie, which suggests it is told from a zombie's perspective. Upon closer inspection, it's obvious that the titular zombie is one Liv Moore, whose story -- and thus the show -- is about her learning to appreciate (un)life, making new friends, and experiencing new things, some of which she never would have gotten a taste (heh) of had she never (un)died. So, the focus is on Liv and whoever happens to be in her orbit. Sometimes it's her boss, sometimes it's her ex, sometimes it's her colleague, sometimes it's her roommate... You get the picture. Now, in order to make an interesting story, every character should serve a purpose. Clive is there to help Liv's quest for justice, Ravi is there as a friend and bringer of hope, Major is there to represent what she's lost, Blaine's there to fuck shit up. Each character should also have a story of their own, so we have Clive trying to prove himself, Ravi pursuing Peyton and trying to cure his friend, Major getting in over his head, and Blaine fucking shit up. The only reason Major and Blaine's respective stories are shown separately from Liv's, Ravi's and Clive's is that their stories aren't related to Liv via her workplace. And from everything we've been shown (and also general TV rules), it's fairly obvious all those stories will collide by the end of the season. Also, I didn't do the math, but I'm pretty sure Ravi and Clive have more screentime than Blaine or Major.

Officially renewed!