Which Tyler
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Posts posted by Which Tyler
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The Spanish editor says 2016.
The independent themselves still think that a book release ahead of S6 is viable
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I never noticed this first time around, but I've just been told that during one of the early news segments, there is a very quick mention of a show at the Tate Gallery being shut down early for obscenity. They mention the artist by name. Turns out that he was the kidnapper (also mentioned by name in the post-credit news report). So the "performance" was to illustrate the hypocrisy of the British public - who were unwilling to tolerate his "obscene" show, but we're willing en masse to watch the PM fornicating with a pig.
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weren't they all fully charged whilst at the house? They had 24 hours whilst Max was charging, and I'm sure we saw Niska and Mia charging together on the sofaPresumably they were charged while at Hobbs' lab.
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I think they just left Fred because they needed something to do next season.
Well that, and an uprising of conscious synth.s who can't rise up.
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I'm still waiting on a release date for Winds; then I intend to (try to) time a re-read to have me ready to go straight into it about a month after release (giving Mrs Tyler a chance to read it first without the re-read)I'm debating re-reads to hold me over until Winds.....I've been steadfast in not reading the sample chapters but I'm losing my resolve.
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Still sounds exactly like someone indulging in abnormal forms of masturbation to me.
I also still consider it utterly irrelevant.
IMO the only person who has a valid opinion about whether someone has been raped is the rape victim, not the rapist. Otherwise we might just as well ask all rapists if they felt it was rape, and let them go if they didnt , and convict a few who felt bad later even though consent is given.
Mind you, I consider rape to be an issue of consent, not about whether the perp feels dirty.
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Niska is a sex slave; we know this, it is established very early on. She doesn't want to be there, but she has no choice, she cannot leave. However, she is sentient and can consent or not-consent; it just makes no difference as to whether she has sex or not. You don't call that rape - it fits every definition I've ever seen.
On anita - ok, so by your definition, she is unable to consent - just like a vibrator, a cucumber, an apple pie - are those all rape too? either you consider Anita sentient and thereby able to consent, or you consider her non-sentient, and therefore consent is irrelevant.
As for Mia - whom Joe doesn't know, and has no reason to possibly know - even exists; I have no problem calling her a rape victim. However, that doesn't make Joe a rapist - the person at fault is the person who put a sentient mind into the body of an inanimate object.
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Am I the only one who thinks this is kinda concerning?The John at the brothel - again, not rape. He certainly didn't think of it as rape - he was at a brothel with machines. That doesn't automatically clear him because of his intent, but he was right - he was at a brothel, with machines. From Niska's perspective, she's a machine, working at a brothel. Seems to me she went a bit ape-shit over a bit of fairly routine sex (which never actually happened, not with the last guy). The conceit here is, obviously, that Niska is sentient and so must be human, with the natural human female aversion to having strange men stick stuff in her (fake) hoo-hoo uninvited. I would say again while working in a brothel but you get my point.
So Niska can't be raped because, whilst fully sentient and not consenting, she is enslaved against her will and made to work in a brothel; whilst Anita who isn't sentient (but has a different sentient being trapped inside of her but unable to make her feelings known) actively consents to sex; but IS rape because she can't consent, even though she gives every indication of doing so.
So someone who is capable of consent, but doesn't give it, ISN'T raped, whilst someone incapable of consent, but who does anyway, IS rape???
I must admit, I always thought of rape as an issue with consent; not location.
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Yay, finally found and caught up with this topic.
Ermmm... Nothing really to add at the moment though, but I'm sure I will now I can actually follow it.
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Just speaking for myself, I wasn't trying to change anyone's mind. Always an exercise in futility.
I was merely trying to present a different way of interpreting things. I don't think in am right, I don't think you are right. I don't think there's any such thing as "right".
This is all subjective interpretation of deliberately ambiguous material after all.
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I didn't say anything about Jill and I don't think her experience was amusing. She definitely didn't seem to think it was amusing, and the event seemed like it caused her to reconsider her beliefs about synths and what is appropriate or wise to do with them -- something I think is the biggest question the show is raising and grappling with, not just with regard to sex.
No, but I did, as have others on these boards - "amusing misadventure" was a direct quote.
She presumably found sex with the synth amusing enough to do it again, and to have him illegally modded to better suit her preference.
Her reaction to the illegal mod going wrong is a reaction to an illegal mod going wrong, not a reaction to having sex with a synth.
However, I completely agree with your last point above.
If Joe is "the only one being stigmatised" about his sex with Anita, it may be because he's married and he and his wife apparently didn't have an arrangement in place where he was free to have sex with humans or humanlike animate objects, based on the fact that she kicked him out when she learned that he had. His wife doesn't consider Anita tantamount to a Fleshlight: "She lives in our house, looks after our children, and you're calling her a sex toy." Anita isn't a fembot in a brothel. There was no understanding between Joe and Laura that having sex with him was one of the tasks Anita was going to be performing when Laura agreed to keep her.Well, his is the only family we're seeing. His wife doesn't consider Anita to be tantamout to a fleshlight - he does; others seem to (or at least, a fleshlight/vibrator with other uses).
Yes, she kicked him out of the house when she found out - just like other wives have done in discovering a husband's porn stash or fleshlight.
Some people think it's adultery, others don't; both opinions are valid.
I'd also argue that Joe isn't the "only one" whose sexual activity with synths is being treated, by the show, with disapproval: none of the men we saw Niska with at the brothel seemed like he was gentlemanly, particularly the last one whose requests she pretty emphatically refused. I also don't get the sense from what she says about David Elster in this episode that the sex they had was okay with her, which to me is ultimately the issue with Joe and Anita. If Anita were a synth like Jill's, I could almost accept your argument that she's just a device for human pleasure. But this episode makes it clear that Mia's consciousness has been alive all along. Joe didn't know at the time that there was more to Anita than there is to any other synth, and he may not want to believe it now despite what every other member of his family is trying to get him to understand because facing it would mean he had to admit to himself that what he did was tantamount to having sex with a coma patient: Mia was in there, conscious, and unable to consent.Brothel =/= home environment. People frequenting brothels =/= representative sample of all men.
"If Anita were a synth like Jill's..." That's exactly my point, no-one knew that Anita wasn't a synth like Jill's. Anita didn't know, Joe didn't know, and didn't have any reason whatsoever to suspect that it might be the case. Of the billion synth.s out there in the world, 0 are known to be anything other than synth.s. As viewers, we know there are 4 (or 5, or 6) out of a billion; Joe has absolutely no reason to suspect even that any, let alone that Anita is one of them.
I agree with your analogy of the coma patient; were the coma patient walking around, talking and acting like an otherwise completely normal and consensual person. However, to make your analogy more analogous; had professor Charles Xavier implanted the consciousness of a coma patient into another human being who consensually had sex with someone, I would not consider that person to be a rapist; though I would consider the coma patient to be a rape victim. It doesn't mean that there's no crime, just that there's no fault (or that the fault lies with the evil bastard that implanted the coma patient's consciousness into a functional human being).
The way the show is presenting Joe's actions is, to me, the biggest clue as to their morality in the show's universe. Calling the cops on Leo and Max isn't the act of a misunderstood hero. Throwing his teenaged son under the bus to conceal what I'll generously call his sexual indiscretion: ditto. But you seem to be focused on the technicalities of Joe's choices with regard to Anita's Adult Options, as opposed to engaging with these events as the show presents them -- namely, that the other humans in Joe's family, who also live in a world with synths, think what he did was gross and did even before they knew Mia, with her consciousness, was in Anita when he did it.I've never claimed Joe to be a misunderstood hero - so I'll ignore that straw-man. However, I will say that this show isn't showing much in the way of answers; it's posing questions for the audience to answer on our own, and deliberately making the answer non-obvious. I would certainly suggest that anyone who finds such answers to be obvious is missing something.
Not really focussed on the technicalities - I focussed on the context. You see the family's reaction as an exact reaction to infidelity and rape; I see the reaction as a reaction to porn stash from the dark old days where everyone did it, no-one admitted it, and discovery would break up families - even your own language supports this; it's "gross" not cheating, not rape.
If you want to look at the context, the only person on the show who has acted as if Joe shagging Anita was rape is Joe once he found out about Mia, and that she was there and aware the whole time.
So are you arguing with the show for how it's presenting synths to us, in the non-synth world? That is, is your view that the invention of synths who have consciousness is a circumstance that entrapped Joe into fornicating with what he mistakenly thought was an insensate machine in his house because he physically could, no different from a man in our world having sex with a Dustbuster?No; so I'll ignore the straw-man as well.
Or is it that you think there are people on this thread who are fundamentally misreading the world of the show?
Yes - you can tell by the way I said "Why is there so much projection on these boards?" and went on to tackle exactly what I saw as a fundamental misreading of the world of the show; and gave my counter-opinion.
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Uncomfortableness and guilt which plenty of people feel about masturbation, and even more so, about using masturbatory aids. Until the advent of broadband, porn was viewed in much the same way; until Sex in the City, vibrators were viewed in much the same way; fleshlights (google it) or blow-up-dolls still are viewed that way - hell, porn is still viewed that way (why do you think "private browsing" really exists?).
Joe is not the only person presented as having had sex with a synth - he's just the only one being stigmatised about it. There are synth brothels, there is the very existence of the adult mode; presented with a nod and a wink. I get the impression from the show that most, or at least, very very many people are at it; but it's still in that "dirty little secret" stage - just like porn and vibrators used to be.
Again, look at the dichotomy on these boards - Joe is an aresehole rapist. Jill is an amusing misadventure. Mind you, that fits my theory above - people are happy to buy mum a vibrator; dads still get kicked out if their porn stash is discovered.
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If they are making robot brains intricate enough to become self-aware, I'm sure that reconnecting nerve fibers is routine now.
That's a really good point - and probably answers one of my major issues; which is how come Jill goes from being unable to walk, to standing, to walking unaided in what seems like a few days. That's a good 6 months worth of rehab right there, and they get the synth for 2 weeks (IIRC).
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Colin Morgan is 29 (and I'd guess, playing a slightly younger character in Leo). 14 years ago, he'd have been 15; so certainly counting as a "boy".
Elster had retreated as a recluse, he may only have been dead for 2 years, but if he'd been in seclusion for 14 (I don't see how he'd have worked on Mia in secret, as part of a team, before becoming a recluse) then he'd be highly unlikely to have known him (as opposed to have heard about him).
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The other major points of difference are that this is based on history rather than myth; and that it's based on a very popular (and very good) series of books.
Of course it will be broadly similar (Vikings go around invading people, some fights happen) and will presumably be visually similar; but that's like saying that all cop shows are the same (someone dies, the cops investigate). Plenty of room for both on my tellybox.
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It depends really. How long ago did Hobbs last see Beatrice? 10 years? 20? How well did he know her? Not to mention that if you think someone is dead, you're hardly trying to pattern-match their face when you meet new people.
Of course, there's also narrative convenience (like none of the other synths mentioning that Karen's a synth; like her not being able to kill herself, even by inaction; but is allowed to specifically ask someone else to do it for her).
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It just never came up.
Synths don't really seem the types to initiate conversations all that much.
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Hobb worked with Millican, and probably with Elster at some point (It's gotta be a pretty small field, right at the top end, in a fairly small country). We also know that he doesn't want to harm the HumaSynths, but actively wants to continue Elster's work towards creating but (presumably not proliferating - he seems terrified of that prospect) Synth consciousness. No way would he honour his promise to Beatrice - a request I'm surprised her hard-coding allowed her to make TBH.
As for the HumaSynths flying under the radar - we know from Leo that Mia and to a lesser extent Niska can do so; whereas Max couldn't I do'nt recall them mentioning Fred. Beatrice obviously did as well, though the clues were there in her behaviour in retrospect. Of course, Joe Bloggs won't be looking for clues beyond not having bright green eyes and acting robotically; Beatrice also chose a job where those synth mannerisms that crept through would just be attributed to being impatient, authoritative and not caring that much about the person she's speaking to.
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Someone had to to the bike home, and it wouldn't be an injured Anita or a shaken and possibly injured Toby; so one of the parents it is then.
From there it's pretty much a coin toss; it may be that Joe did it last time, or that feeling of guilt or simply being shaken made her volunteer.
My memory suggests that Joe simply asked for the keys and nominated; but I'm not too sure as my watching was pretty interrupted and a couple of weeks ago. Even if it is that (rather than her suggestion), there are many potential reasons without resorting to assumptions of sexism or inexplicable behaviour.
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Thanks for spoiler tagging the descriptions - I was going to suggest exactly that.
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Right just caught up - or as caught up as I can be with 2 teens who ask to watch the show, then ignore it for a multitude of conversations on phones / skypes and across the living room.
Why is there so much projection on these boards?
Synths are synths; they are machines with no feelings, no emotions; they are not human. On top of that we've got 1 cyborg and 5 synths with partial emotions*
Sex with a synth is no more disgusting than sex with a blow-up doll, or vibrator (again, excepting the ones with partial emotions).
The teens powering off the synth to shag it is disgusting as indicative behaviour; they're projecting / anthropomorphisising onto the synth, and then learning and reinforcing awful behaviour. I see this as more the equivalent of pulling the legs off insect and then dissecting a stray cat for the cliche growing psychopath. It's also reminiscent of plenty of real-life teen rape cases. And absolutely, well played Mattie.
Joe on the other hand is using a masturbatory aid - no worse than a blow-up doll or vibrator - not even close to rape. Bare in mind - he's not anthropomorphising Anita.
Funny how when Joe activates Anita's adult option it's rape, when Jill does the same.. and then some; it's an amusing misadventure. (Yes, yes, I know, Anita's one of the emotional ones; but it's also been stated many times that it's about how Joe sees her, not how she actually is and has no way of suspecting she is).
*Now, Leo and "his" 4 synths. My guess here is that Dr Estler did manage, over the years to programme a more-or-less complete ability to emote, feel etc; and that this is the end-game for the series; and that he basically split it 4 ways between these synths, as his needs at the time developed; so Mia has the empathy and nurture; Niska has the self-worth and some of the darker sides to humanity (utter cruelty / idiocy of giving the self-worth to the sex-bot**); We haven't really seen enough of Max and Fred; but it seems that Max is the clever, analytical one capable of faith (made to be Leo's high-achieving friend, capable of turning to God, dispair and utter faith in Leo); whilst Fred seems to be the hard-working, get stuff done one (probably made to protect and do the heavy lifting around the Elster home.
I also have this sneaking feeling that Dr Estler himself may have died in mysterious circumstances - AKA Niska; everyone seems a little too blasé about his death.
Karen / Robocop. My guess here is that she's a more natural evolution of synths; not a deliberately made lines of code, but a million monkeys in front of a typewriter - type scenario where she's been able to better mimic humans, and escape (probably for plot convenience) her previous life. Her interest in Leo's 4 would be her feeling of not wanting to be alone. Her very existence leads to much more scary answers of the same questions posed by deliberately coding emotional AI. If it's capable of developing on it's own, then we can have no idea which synths are capable of the same code, which ones already have it but haven't been able to express it etc etc; in which case all synths would deserve "human" rights; not just the ones specifically coded and deliberately made.
** Sex-bot before being taken by the avagers and sold to the brothel. On this - why do some people think that Leo sent her to the brothel? she was captured whilst out of charge, and sold the the brothel - Leo left her there later when he "couldn't take her now" for no valid reason (unless he really needed Mia to keep Niska in line; in which case that still needs to be made clear)
ETA - best not to get me started on Vera and the socialised health care thing; that conversations thankfully seems to have died, completely missed the point, and mostly gave evidence against itself in the first place.
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Well, don't quote me (too late) because I don't actually know for sure - I couldn't even tell you the names of most of the books (beyond they are all 'a something of something', I guess) so don't actually know for sure how many there are. I do know, but don't know how, that there were big gaps between some of them. But I had an idea that the book series is not complete and that the show was catching up fast, and I thought this was the season of catching up. But I may have got completely the wrong end of the stick.
Correct and then some. Season 4 started showing the odd scene that feels like a spoiler for the books, and Season 5 has presumably gone further. At this stage, the show is ahead of the books; and you're starting to get unsullied the other way around, bookwalkers who have stopped watching the show as they don't want the story spoiled for their favoured medium.
This is why I personally chose not to watch Season 5; and why I felt I had to step down from protecting you guys (and consequently, why I'm late even seeing that this thread exists).
Whilst it would be really sad to see the ruination of the unsullied habitat - and I'm pleased to see that the vote is against this; the spoilers you all fear from the big bad world... aren't really spoilers anymore; they're backstory, not twists; and that backstory may not even be the same as the show has (inevitably) moved further and further from the source material.
It was my absolute pleasure to help you out, especially through the trauma of TWOP's demise and scrambling for a new home; and I've really missed it this year.
I will sure as hell read any reading-through threads you go through, and probably join in - in lurk mode only.
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A Brit perspective here.
When did a Brit say that the Nathan Hale quote wasn't known here? If so, they're kidding you - it's an extremely famous quote, though we probably don't know who said it, or why. Anyone fresh from the rhetoric of the 2nd world war would certainly know it, treating American GIs or not. Most of us in this day and age would probably mis-attribute it to Churchill or somesuch.
As for scars - I can't comment of smallpox scars, as they'd stopped it here before I was born (76) - but the BCG scar is certainly upper left arm - and Geillis would be the right age at the right time to have had that as well.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31858156
The author died at home "with his cat sleeping on his bed, surrounded by his family," Mr Finlay said.
Looks like he kept his dignity; a sad day, and at his best he was inventive and hilarious.
"No one is actually dead until the ripples they cause in the world die away"
I discovered him aged 11 between Equal Rights and Mort. He also wrote my favourite book by any author - Nation (though the islanders should have played rugby 7s, not cricket).
ETA: I actually feel the need to expand; this one still hasn't sunk in properly. I've never really cared about the death of random celebrity before, nor even about personal heroes (Cobain, Joost vd Westhuizen) but...he's been a part of my life since I was 11, I've met him a couple of times at book signings, and shared a table at a charity dinner. This one hurts, and it's really weird; and I kinda don't know what to do with it...
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The Winds Of Winter: Book 6 Will Arrive...Someday
in A Song Of Ice And Fire
Muah ha ha haaàah