natyxg

I think there's truth in here. I don't think Jane and Michael were treated in a subpar way, on the contrary. I think, if memory serves me right, that while Rafael was always the endgame, they did do a very thorough love story with Jane and Michael. There was a lot of romance, a lot of "destiny" stuff, a lot of flashbacks to their beginnings, a lot of compatibility and Jane genuinely wanting to spend the rest of her life with him. While her thing with Rafael seemed to be some old crush that got heightened when she got pregnant with his child (at the time). Jane had her own life with Michael before the Rafael detour, and she went back to it fully. The idea was, I think, that they both had to grow before they were ready for each other (which was fine). Then Michael died and Jane was devastated and mourned DEEPLY. For literal years. Michael was never the endgame, but they really did go there, in my opinion. Which I think worked fine and they should have left it alone. It was bringing Michael back to destroy him and his past with Jane that ruined it all, and wasn't needed at all. One after the other would've been fine.

I didn't know where to put this, but amc.com has unlocked the full season 9, so anyone can watch it, no login required. I imagine it will stay like that until the new season premiers or until netflix gets it, which should be soonish judging by previous years. https://www.amc.com/shows/the-walking-dead Free means ads, though.

Finally got around to watching the finale. It was okay, I guess. Jane is a show that I always enjoyed and thought kept up the quality through the years, for the most part (specially after they killed the infernal Jane-Michael-Rafael love triangle), but I can't say that I feel sad that it's over, or that I found the finale emotional. I never hated Jane and Rafael, nor did I ever feel strongly about them. I always knew they were endgame and accepted that, but they never called to me in any particular way. So, I wasn't really moved by this episode. I also feel like this big love story full of obstacles that they want to tell me happened... wasn't there, so meh. And I say “feel” because my memory sucks, so I can't tell you details, I just feel like that never happened. My feeling is that most of the time if they weren't together it was simply because they didn't want to, specially post Michael. I don't find that epic. *shrugs* Though I guess it could be wrong, cause, bad memory. They were also living together at this point, and had been for months, so getting married wouldn't change things all that much anyway either. So, meh. Telenovelas might always end in weddings, but the protagonists haven't been living as a married couple for God knows how long when they get married. lol. At least they didn't do what the original did, which was tell us that they were going to get married, we see them leave for the wedding, and then BAM jump to really old Juana and Mauricio, celebrating like their 50th anniversary, then telling us about their wedding in flashbacks... and remembering how some of the people there were dead already. It was very wtf, I was so upset. 😂 But back to Jane, it was okay. And I think a big part of the reason why I'm not going to miss this show is because of how angry I still am about the Michael situation. It ruined season 5 for me and I will never forgive their pettiness. *It was so odd to see Rafael in bed with the twins and being affectionate with them. It was so rare to see. *They DID remember the stuff about him being adopted! 😂 I guess it was something they came up with and kept unsolved in case they ever wanted another big twist, but they never needed it so they forgot about it. *I didn't like Xo going to New York. Shows so often like to pull this shit, having someone move away in the finale or some arbitrary change like that for no good reason. There was no need to break up the Villanueva women at all. I'll pretend it didn't happen. *I'll also pretend that Mateo wasn't the narrator all along because he was always too insufferable to be the fun narrator. Finally, I'll say that the thing I'll take away from this show is Petra. Her character grew so much in such a fantastic and believable way, yet she never stopped being fun. And the relationship I'll take away from the show is Jane and Petra. Such a fantastic, realistic, slow burn friendship, and they had so much chemistry. I find them much more interesting that the romantic relationships they both ended up in. Aaaaan that's a wrap!

I'm glad that they kept that reveal for the very end of the show so we could enjoy the narrator without the knowledge that he was Mateo ruining it. Cause Mateo was very annoying 95% of the time.

Scripts! https://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scripts/gentleman-jack 😎🤓

I still think the show should have followed the original show's suit and instead of giving Xo cancer they should've had Rafael's cancer come back if they wanted some telenovela scary last hurdle.

I think the show went out of its way to show that Ann was interested in Anne from the very beginning and loved the attention. From the very first scene she's looking at Shibden Hall all interested, and when she sees Anne during the visit at Shibden she seems very fascinated with her. Then there's the vivid anecdote about when Anne visited them when Ann was like 17 and she never forgot. Ann was also the one who wanted Anne to "stay the night" right away. In fact, in the diaries Anne is taken back by how forward Ann is sexually. So much so that she gets it in her head that she must have had other lovers and she won't be able to measure up, so she's actually nervous to stay the night.

I agree completely. For me much of the pettiness comes from the fact that it wasn't needed at all. She was fine with Rafael, she had moved on from Michael, she was rebuilding her life... Rafael was her endgame, Michael was her past. There was no nagging feeling that she was only with Rafael because Michael was dead. Besides, the way that they plot everything doesn't even fully work to make her "choose" Rafael over Michael, since that Jason/Michael hybrid wasn't even the man she knew and loved. In order for her to fully "choose" Rafael over Michael, then it had to be Michael-Michael. Everything in that plot was a mess. Sure, you can send it if you want.

What I remember about the pilot script I read was that Luisa was going to die by episode three. And I think Rose was very different in some way that I can't remember right now.

Yeah, I think it's supposed to be acting. Mateo would be like Jane herself, for example. She doesn't have an accent because she grew up in the US. In fact, when Mateo says that great grandma says that he would be great at voice over work and the narrator says "and for the record, I am", he sounds like an average American dude. Then he changes his voice again.

In terms of story structure and character archetypes, yes, Michael was basically the big obstacle to Jane and Rafael. However, I don't think the show treated him that way previous to season five. Michael was just more or less an extension of Jane, but, as far as I remember, he was a "real" person and his relationship with Jane WAS taken very seriously. They were about to be married when the show started, and the show, imo, did go out of their way to show that he was an "epic" love of Jane's, specially after they decided that she would marry him. Maybe it was to make it seem like she and Rafael really wouldn't end up together, but they went on and on about how they met, the magic kiss, how much Michael knew Jane, how happy they were together after they married... and when he died, Jane mourned him for years. She didn't even go out on a single date for years. Her pain was real, because her love for him was real. She really thought that she was going to spend the rest of her life with him. So, I think that Michael was a huge part of the show and Jane's journey, and I do think that how they treated him and their story this season was appalling. This year he was just a plot device no one really cared about (the characters, I mean) in a rushed plot that wasn't even needed, and their systematic destruction of Jane&Michael's story was just mean spirited. Letting her fall in love with Rafael all over again after she mourned Michael and they were both (she and Rafael) different people was more than fine, but noooo.... Regarding Adam, he came very late in the show and wasn't on very long, so it's not surprising that he might not have had the same impact, even though in theory he too had an important place in Jane's life. Much like how we don't feel much for Michael and Charlie because we didn't see squat (even though in theory she's his destiny now *eyeroll*), it's hard to feel much for Adam & Jane. That's how it works with stories. People will always care more about the story that they're seeing right now, than they do about the backstory that they didn't see much of.

If you want to be even more creeped out, in the original show, Juana La Virgen, Juana is 17, when she's accidentally inseminated and Mauricio is like 34. They made sure that Juana turned 18 before she had sex with him, though, but still... At least Jane was a proper adult when this whole thing happened. I was young when I watched it and thought nothing of it, but now I kind of shudder.

VERY TRUE.

Not all of them, I don't think. I think the professor and Adam and the telenovela guy were basically about Jane becoming all sexually liberated.

Not just erase that choice, but destroy everything related to Michael and Jane as much as they could. They destroy Michael and turn him into a weird hybrid Jane wouldn't even want to be friends with. They make him mock Michael's romanticism. They retcon Michael's decision to leave the force to say now that he did it for Jane (LIES, IIRC), so therefore their marriage would never have worked because of the "lies" and the resentment that would have followed. They even destroyed the importance of Jane's first book by saying that Rogelio made it happen, so even that accomplishment couldn't be tied to her love story with Michael. I'm sure I'm missing stuff. It was petty and brutal, and, at least for me, it had the opposite effect and made me resent Jane/Rafael. Destroying one ship unnecessarily just to prop up another one is not a good look. Michael had been gone for a while, and there was no need. None. Just pettiness.

I don't even remember that plot enough to know if it will fit, but I'm half expecting the big twist to be that Rose was his mother, and that's why they came out with that stuff about her being 51. But they wouldn't, would they?

There are two "worlds" in the show: *Jane's world: Xiomara, Rogelio, Abuela, Mateo, writing stuff, Jane's personal life, etc *Rafael's world: the Marbella, Petra, Luisa, Rose, the crime story, etc They're the protagonists, they were the gateways to both worlds. It was always their story... maybe Jane's more than Rafael's, but he still got a pretty long arc, too, where he did a lot of changing and growing. One loose end that will apparently be left hanging was the whole thing about Rafael being adopted... what was the point of that? It feels like there was some twist or reveal that was left hanging because they forgot about it somewhere in the middle of it all.

I too think that the endgame was always Jane and Rafael, and I don't think the show was deceptive either. They're the protagonists, of course they're the endgame. For me, however, the problem was that somewhere in season two they decided to take Jane and Michael seriously. I think that maybe they saw that all the back and forth was tedious and it made Jane seem flaky, so they committed to them fully and let them have their own story... ending with Michael's death. So we saw real love between them, in my opinion, a proper love story that was epic in its own way. Michael also got to be Jane's "first" in many ways, and I found his devotion to her quite touching. I thought killing him off "protected" that love story, as well as Michael's memory, and allowed Jane and Rafael to flourish on their own, not at the expense of destroying Michael himself, and Michael and Jane's love story. I was fine with that. Fast forward a couple of seasons, and they just went out of their way to do exactly that in a really petty way, and for no reason. They did Michael very dirty and they ruined the last season of the show, for me. Just blegh.

Same. All of it feels meh. I was pretty disappointed by how they closed up Rose and Luisa. Maybe it's because I've fallen for Bridget after watching Legend of the Seeker some months ago, but I loved seeing her being fabulous and evil one last time. In the last few seasons we've seen so little of her that it just felt like we got glimpses of her when she was just being one note for 3 minutes an episode, so I enjoyed seeing more of her now. But much like Michael's ONE TRUE LOVE, Luisa's whatever happened of screen so seeing her killing her Rose like that felt odd and off, and cheap. I understand intellectually how and why she could have fallen out of love, but we saw very little or nothing, so it just feels off. I did like that Rose loved her till the end, in her own way. It was her one redeeming quality, and in spite of her being evil I kinda wish they had stayed together. Luisa's """"family""""' doesn't really care about her at all and never has, so seeing Jane inviting her to the wedding and that's supposed to be Luisa's big moment and whatever... meh. It was the "right" ending for Villain Rose and Rose/Luisa and Luisa, but it felt flat. Same with Michael. It was "right" for him to have a "happy" ending which on tv means babies and marriage, but I don't know or care about Charlie (in fact, they went out of their way to make her unpleasant, for some reason), so the whole thing feels wrong. I preferred the Michael that was going to love Jane until his last breath. I preferred the Michael who went out of his way to stop Rose for a freaking long time (and now puff, he has no place in her resolution grr), and if he wasn't going to be with Jane (which I always knew), but they were going to bring him back, he deserved a real place in the show with a new love story that I could care about, and therefore be happy that he found love again (in a believable way). If they didn't have the actor available, then don't do anything, imo. Just let him stay dead. It's not like that story added much to the show. It kind of tanked the first half of the season, actually, in my opinion. So, bringing Michael back one last time just so we could see that now the thing that defined him the most, putting Jane above everything, is gone and they're SO out of love now, wasn't particularly pleasant to watch. I've always known that the endgame was Jane/Rafael, but man did they do Michael and his story with Jane dirty, for no reason (which it the worst part of it all). I'm wondering what they're doing with Petra. I always assumed she would end up with JR, but I'm starting to wonder if she won't. What was the deal with saying Rose was 51 and not 38? Is there a reason for that, or was it just a pointless joke?

Didn't he do something to her first? I remember the moment when she found out and her heart turned black, and then she conspired against him with the twin. IIRC it wasn't because he wasn't her biological brother. It could've been that he lied about having cancer again to get her out of hiding and something happened with Rose as a consequence? Something like that?

I spent most of the episode wondering what was the point of the Mateo shit, until I realized that the point was to get Jane to "confront" Rose to be able to move on with her life. Alba has been so thoroughly unlikeable this season, yikes. Every time that Rafael is an asshole to Luisa while she begs him, I just want her to go back to Rose. It's not that Rafael is being unreasonable per se (though I think other times he has been more harsh than needed), but I think the show never established this relationship properly. From day one they've been fighting because they have history, so there's no lost brother-sister relationship that I want to see rekindled (because we never saw it to begin with, at least not that I remember), so it all gets reduced to Luisa begging him while he throws her out coldly. I don't get why she would even want him back in her life so bad, or why she would even trust him to be there for her. At least Rose wants her, in her own twisted way. I figured all along that Luisa was working with the police, but seeing the whole thing unfold... man that was all so dumb. If they knew everything, and they knew she was going to escape, why didn't they just... stop her from escaping. Just destroy the plan before it went into action. It would've been different if Rose had been loose and they needed to catch her, but they had her right there. The whole point was clearly to have her on the loose and pissed at Luisa, but come on. The plan with the multiple Roses wasn't all that, either. I wonder if we'll see Michael soon because of her escape. It does seem like they're setting things up to have a bunch of people moving away, which I hope they don't. I get how it's all supposed to lead to hard decisions for the characters, but I hope they don't (move away, I mean). Not only is it a cliché, but one I usually dislike in series endings. Anyway, not feeling much excitement about the ending.

Ah. Thanks.

What does LLN mean?

When Jane and Rafael at some point talk about the possibility of a priest marrying them, and then dismiss the idea because they would rather not, I kind of wanted to scream. JANE CANNOT GET MARRIED BY A PRIEST AGAIN BECAUSE IN THE EYES OF THE CHURCH SHE WILL BE MARRIED TO MICHAEL UNTIL EITHER OF THEM DIES. This is very basic stuff, what the fuck? The idea that Alba would want to marry them is also very what the fuck, but oh well, I guess she's changed. When Xo mentioned Rogelio's heart and he dismissed her, I knew he would have a heart problem later. I'm glad it was a small thing and just in this episode, instead of DRAMA. And Xo looks GREAT with glasses! Her little plot this episode is exactly why I could never be a nurse or a doctor, I'd be seeing serious illness everywhere all the time and become a hypochondriac or get health anxiety (which is terrible). Jane donating her eggs to Lina was a terrible idea that would never work and I'm glad they didn't go there. Hopefully Petra's ok.

I can buy that, but they have to explain it and earn it, not just make it come out of nowhere and have everyone around Xo not even question it. Even in an over the top show things have to make sense within their own world, imo. Sure, Jane was a pregnant virgin, but there was actually an explanation for that. It's not like she just woke up pregnant one day and life went on and no one questioned it or explained it or anything.