natyxg

You're welcome. This is why I dislike Mariana so much. She's self serving like most people are, including Anne, but she's just 100% selfish. What she wants only benefits her. Anne has nothing to gain by continuing to be tied to her and continue to wait for her, the opposite since this is BAD for her, yet that seems to be what Mariana wants, to keep Anne under her control for her own benefit, regardless of what that means to Anne. I could be wrong, but I think she feared being left with nothing at all. That annual allowance set up by fathers and brothers is what she gave up when she married Charles, because she had four sisters and her father was a doctor (like her brother, a psychiatrist type), so they weren't super rich. It's not like Tib, whose family was rich enough so there was enough money around for unmarried daughters like her to be taken care of, even if they never inherited the estate (Tib never married). So she completely depended on Charles leaving her something, or on his heir taking care of her. In the end I think what you mention is pretty much the set up Charles left her with. I don't think Anne would ever have left her homeless though, even if they weren't a couple anymore. I think her worry came from the fact that he had all the power and could change his will whenever he wanted to, and their relationship wasn't stellar. This is all in episode 1x07, too. Anne tells her that surely Charles has her protected in his will, but Mariana isn't sure. They married in 1816 when she was 28 and he was 46. He was a widower but his previous wife didn't have children either. This was on the show, too. She tells Anne in episode 1x07 that she would've become dependent on William when Charles died, but now that he's dead Charles' heir will be some distant relative who doesn't know her and would cut her off at the first opportunity. There's also a bit of an extended bbc scene version that deals with it too: Look in the four minute mark (from episode 1x07).

Mariana's big problem in life was that she never had children. She married Charles for money, with the hope she would have some children soon and he would die soon enough, but neither thing happened. The dude lived to be 90! She ended up married to him for like 45 years. At the time, wives didn't automatically inherit from their husbands. The idea was always to keep the estate intact, or as intact as possible, so they would choose one male heir to leave it to, and hope to marry their daughters well. Ideally, Mariana would've had children who would look after her when Charles died. But that never happened. She gave up her own inheritance when she married, which was never gonna be a lot anyway because she had too many sisters and like I said, what was preferred was keeping the chunk of the estate intact and leave it to the eldest son. So she depended on Charles providing for her in his will, and she always feared that he wouldn't. So Anne was always her security blanket, her plan B in case all else failed. When Anne came back from Hastings after Vere Hobart Mariana told her to stop dreaming, they were never going to be together at Shibden (this is in the diaries and also mentioned on the show in 1x07), probably because she got along really well with Charles' nephew, his heir, and she trusted that he would look after her when Charles died. She even hoped to marry him to her niece, little Mariana, which would secure her position in his life even more. But William died (again, we see this in episode 1x07) and all her plans fell apart... so back to Anne. Only now Anne is slipping away too because she married Ann Walker. It throws her in a tailspin. In 1834 Mariana is scrambling to pull Anne back into her web, in great part because she's afraid for her future if/when Charles died. The show completely erased this, but real Mariana was also having some sort of relationship with a man called Mr. Crewe at the time the show is on right now. You get the feeling that she's trying to keep both him and Anne on standby, as a substitutes for Charles. But again, Charles was like Wolverine or something. He still had 25+ years left after the events we're covering now. He must have had great genes. Who lives to 90 in the 1800s? The ultimate troll. And in the end he did provide for her in his will, not a LOT as far as I know, but enough to live on the rest of her life.

I wish they had said, explicitly, what the rumors were. I feel like they continue to keep things vague, and I guess I continue to be skeptical that so many people could know for real. I think Anne would've been treated very differently if people were speaking about her taking female lovers in those terms. It's one thing to imply it and think that maybe she's "like a man" or whatever, and another thing to really say it out loud and put the image in people's minds. Yet, in january 10, 1835 So maybe people WERE aware, after all. I don't know. It's interesting.

One would think so, yes, but I still find the whole thing a bit confusing. I feel like the show isn't being definitive either way. I'm right there with you. This! Specially when they only want to benefit themselves.

You're welcome. 😀

I think what people know exactly about Anne and her relationships with women is confusing, and I think the problem comes down to two things: 1. The show doesn't explain the concept of female companions enough. At the time they were a thing, so people really could believe that two women could be companions without being lovers. It's really foreign to us, but to them it was probably normal. I think that's what Aunt Anne and Marian are talking about when they talk about Anne's relationships, but to us it sounds like they know she was having sex with these women. It's one thing I wish the show made clearer. In the diaries, back in the 1820s Anne had an affair with a woman in Paris called Mrs. Barlow (she was a widow). And she told Mrs. Barlow that her Aunt knew nothing of her sexual relationships with women. I can believe that someone like Aunt Anne and Marian, both unmarried, could be innocent enough to not think that Anne was actually lovers with the women she talked about, including Ann. If there is anyone I would expect would be more in tune with Anne's true nature it would be her father, because as a man he would've been less innocent in matters of sex. Even after that conversation Marian and Aunt Anne had after Marian visited Ann's aunt, I'm not sure about what exactly they know. 2. The other problem is that Anne has to talk to SOMEBODY. In her diary she talks to her diary, but in the show she has to talk to people to make her thoughts and feelings known to the audience. This leads to conversations that, again, confuse us about how much people really know (or at least they confuse ME). In season one, for example, Anne talks to Steph about her and Mariana and how the world would make sense if they would finally get together. Does that mean he knows exactly what's going on? Same with Charlotte (Tib's sister in the first episode). The point of the conversation with Charlotte is to have Anne verbalize that she's "fond enough" of Ann and all that jazz, but would Charlotte really know the true nature of Anne's relationship with Mariana? In real life, I'm doubtful. In the show... maybe? I guess? I have such a hard time believing Anne would tell so many people about Mariana. Real Anne certainly wouldn't. Out of everyone Tib is the one who really would know, because she herself was Anne's lover on and off for years. They had like a friends with benefits thing going on, but Anne didn't think Tib suited her enough, in part because she drank too much. Tib introduced Anne to Mariana, by the way.

So, i've been putting off commenting on this episode because I'm so tired of Mariana fucking Lawton. I like Lydia (the actress) and I think she has good chemistry with Suranne, but can she just go away now. Enough. No more. This is one of those episodes that can be read in two very different ways. I've read too much of the long, excruciating, and toxic, long term relationship that real Mariana and real Anne had to see the whole episode as anything other than the same old, same old: Mariana fearing that her hold on Anne is slipping, so she launches a strong offense that pushes all the buttons she knows will work, until Anne, who will never be 100% immune to her because it really is a long history and in her mind was some epic love, gives in. Mariana tries claiming she will die without her and threatening suicide, then its on to belittling Ann Walker as much as she can, then she tries remembering the good old times followed by painting herself of some victim of her family, then its on to sympathy because her life with Charles is ~SO HARD~... and when she gets what she wanted, the reassurance that she can still get Anne to do what she wants, suddenly she will no longer die without her, her life is suddenly not so hard after all and she's all smiles. She was a narcissist suffering because her toy was slipping from her and now that she thinks that's not true, she can drop the pretense and probably really does feel better after having that sex. Now, other people can take all Mariana says at face value and see the whole episode as evidence of how Mariana was the true love of Anne's life and they were separated by her family (pffs) and Anne would've conquered empires for her (pffs) and she's now simply settling with Ann Walker, for whom she doesn't have anywhere near the same love or the same passion as she did, or does, for Mariana. I don't think what we've seen in the show so far lines up with that, nor does the real story, but it's an inevitable possible interpretation after an episode like that. I didn't like any of it, specially because they changed quite a bit from the diaries in the episode, and now have made the show worse, at least to my liking. And it didn't have to be shown the way it was. But anyway, moving on to the Ann(e)s, their scene was beautiful and clearly meant to be a contrast to the one with Mariana. We've never seen Anne naked and vulnerable before, and I do think her "I love you" is meant to be sincere. But it bothered me that the scene was short and abruptly cut. That was weird. And Ann was a bit odd during it, so I wonder if that's a thread that the show will follow, since it does make you wonder if Ann's demeanor is because she suspects something happened at Lawton. She seemed more pensive than aroused, even more so after Ann's "I love you". I don't give a shit about canals and truly have no idea about what they're talking about when they talk about single locks, double locks or who the hell knows. Nor do I care. But that ending really felt like they were closing the door on the first half of the season and a new era begins. Let's see if it's better than the first half.

Or Mariana, even.

I think the difference is that Ann's family wants to control her for appearances sake and for the sake of her money, but don't really even care about her person. Anne "controlling" Ann has more to do with the fact that someone has to make decisions and encourage her to make decisions, because otherwise she just won't do anything. Without the push she second guesses herself too much and is perpetually afraid. And I don't think that Anne does anything against Ann's wellbeing, at least so far. Sure, she benefits herself too (at times), but never at the expense of hurting Ann. The things that Anne insists Ann does are good for her, like her treatment and travel, or things that she herself is willing to do. She's going to leave a life interest in Shibden for Ann, too, the same thing that she wants Ann to do. When Ainsworth came in season one, before Ann told her of his abuses, Anne tries to remain impartial and let her choose herself what was best for her, she just needed Ann to choose so she wouldn't be kept in limbo. She tried to take control of the situation when Ann got ill in season one, while trying to protect her from a family that might put her in a madhouse. And things like that. I don't think Anne is anywhere near as bad as people sometimes say.

She was also devastated and crushed, much more so actually, when it seemed like Ann was going to leave her for Mr. Ainsworth. She was so upset she vomited. She was, again, very upset, when Mrs. Priestly mentioned that he visited Ann in Scottland, until Ann's letter (which literally took her breath away) reassured her. Mariana tried to leave Charles when Anne inherited Shibden and Anne sent her back. It's in the diaries and Mariana mentioned it in episode 1x07. It's Ann she was thinking about during her time in Denmkark, after spending some time with Mariana reminded her, yet again, that they can't work together anymore. We see her absolute love face when she's watching Ann paint, and her tenderness in this episode when they're in bed, even before Ann brings up Mariana. Mariana doesn't leave her unaffected and probably never will, but I don't think she show is telling us anything near what you're saying. If anything, I think it's showing us an Anne who feels much more deeply for Ann than she herself wants to admit, probably in part because she has held on to the Mariana narrative for so long, and because her relationship with Ann is so different from her previous relationships (as is Ann herself). As to what would happen if Charles died? That would be a pickle. After what they have shared together and all that Ann has given her and given up for her, I don't think Anne would drop her in a second to run to Mariana. Also, Mariana has disappointing her many times by this point, while Ann has upheld her promise. Would she dare risk what she has with Ann and maybe end up with nothing? But on the other hand, after holding on to the Mariana fantasy for so long the "what if" might be too strong to ignore, in spite of all that water under the bridge. It would indeed be a real dilemma.

She is even more open about this in the diaries, and I actually hate that they didn't have her verbalize it like it seems she did in real life, because it was one of those moments (and not the only one) when I was blown away by how awful she was or, at the very least,how awful she could be at times. This is the morning after Anne gives her the final goodbye grubble (they changed it in the show, but in the diaries it was just Anne "grubbling" Mariana): Here's the actual sex entry, in case anyone wants to read about how bad Anne felt even during it: https://annelister538400391.wordpress.com/2019/06/18/25-december-1834/ https://annelister538400391.wordpress.com/2019/06/18/26-december-1834/

Preach!

I'm starting to feel like they have bitten more than they can chew and the show is starting to suffer because of it. I imagine that Anne's diaries are very busy in this period and she was dipping her hand in many pots, but shows need to be focused and establish a main storyline, and I'm not seeing it. Now to the coal and the hotel we add the trains and the canals and possibly politics and oh my! But what is the actual storyline, though? In season one the question was "Will Anne and Ann end up together?" or "How will Anne and Ann end up together?", if you already knew that they did. Now I have no questions. *shrugs* It all feels like general * business* . It's not even like "Will Anne defeat the Rawsons and get them to stop stealing her coal?" I mean, I didn't care about the coal, but at least things felt more focused. It feels similarly when it comes to the Ann(e)'s personal stories. They're not fully jelling, for me. I like that Ann is making the effort to be more assertive, and I can see how it can frustrate her to feel like she's not being taken seriously. But then Anne is off on her own individual story with Mariana which augh, so it feels at times like they're on different planets, even though they're physically together. I did like that Ann thanked Anne for all the stuff she does for her, because I think it's true. I think Anne (real Anne) was not perfect but she did try hard and often to do right by Ann Walker and she doesn't get enough credit for it. Still, I enjoyed the massage scene and I just want the Mariana storyline to be over to I can stop stressing about it (mostly frustration over the wasted time on it) and hopefully have some other cute Ann(e)s scenes. I ask so little, just let me enjoy the Ann(e)s, show! The pig saga continues to be a no1curr plot, but I do appreciate that they have now added a mystery to it because while I don't care about them, ultimately, at least there's now a question hanging (Did Thomas kill Ben?) and wondering about something is better than not caring about it at all. Favorite moments: *The exploding cow scene was truly hilarious. 🤣 I'm really liking the comedy this season. *I loved how Anne immediately caught on to the fact that an unmarried man is sniffing around Ann. I felt bad for her, she seemed so worried. *The little shoulder kisses that Anne gave Ann during the massage. And btw, Anne giving Ann backrubs fairly often, specially in their first couple of years together, is from the diaries. *Mrs. Rawson's crush on Anne. 🤣

I found it hard to believe, too. But I think they're trying to foreshadow some great tragedy to come. Trying to build up some suspense.

I agree that from the outside it looks bad. But Ann's family never cared about her person, only about her money, which is why I find them so off putting. They ignore her well being, but suddenly CARE SO MUCH when she starts trying to have a life.

I feel like this wasn't what happened in the episode. 😂 What prompts Ann to ask about Mariana was Mrs. Milne, not Tib, and they were not in the foothills of Mont Blanc when Ann brought it up (right?). Anyway, I wanted to like this episode more than I did. The Ann(e)s are fantastic, though, and I thoroughly enjoy all their scenes and want more of them after I finish each episode. I know it can't always be like this and I dread the moment when things will go bad between them. But so far they are just a joy to watch, at least to me. It was the rest of the episode that I had issues with. First of all, I feel like Anne should always provide the spine for each episode. We should be following HER around primarily, with occasional scenes from other plots, sure, but it should always feel like her story (and or Ann's since she's so directly tied to Anne). She gives the show its shape. She's the glue that holds it together. Or she should be. I didn't feel it in this episode, like I usually do. Episode one almost had TOO much Anne, lol, and it was a bit exhausting, but episode two abandoned the Ann(e)s for long periods of time and that made it feel a bit... chaotic, to me? You expect the episode to be about the Ann(e)s on their honeymoon, but it's not. I feel like it was again a list of details or things they wanted to address, but that it didn't come together like a proper plot to me. I don't know how to explain it. So while I liked a lot of individual scenes, as a whole it didn't flow properly for me. And the consequence of not using Anne as the glue was... spending too much time on no1curr people. There were way too many scenes (and long ones too) with too many side characters. Some characters that are completely unnecessary, like the Sowdens who felt like they got like a third of the episode (wtf???). And some characters that technically are supposed to be important, but still... their scenes were kind not that needed? We get this interminable scene with Ann's "tribe" that tells us absolutely nothing new about any of them. Did we really need to see them scheme in a really predictable way and reach a really predictable conclusion ('let's marry her off!')? Did we really need to follow Eliza and William into their carriage or get Marian and Aunt Ann scenes that are almost identical to the scenes Ann has with her same Aunt? Did we really need to see Sutherland "process" Ann's request for the division of the estate, in another scene that felt just sooo long? Now, don't get me wrong. I get what the show is trying to do and say with scenes like those, it's the how that doesn't work for me. Because rather than feel properly weaved into Anne's story, they felt like they were floating around without being teetered to anything, and like if you cut them out they wouldn't even be missed (in this episode). Preferably, the same sentiments that those scenes were meant to put across could have been written in a way that directly impacted or included the Ann(e)s, with those same characters and with the same message. This doesn't apply to the Sowdens, though. That should be completely cut from the show. It has nothing at all to do with Anne, it's not interesting and now they have even made it off putting and sordid. Suddenly the farm looks like the site of some horror movie, dark, filthy, sinister. The people went from being "honest but poor" types to really off-putting people who chase people around with dead pig heads, beat each other up and have off putting sex in the middle of the filthy kitchen. And by the way, that sex scene was an assault on my eyes. It came out of nowhere and if there ever was a show where straight sex doesn't belong it's gentleman jack (!!!!!!!!!!!!!). I feel like they really misunderstood the assignment with that one. But now on to the good stuff... I'm loving Anne and Ann this season! They are so kind, loving and sweet to each other. Anne brings Ann up, helps her be confident and cheerful. Ann doesn't let Anne get away with things, but doesn't judge her either when she tells her things. She also tries so hard to get out of her comfort zone in order to go along with Anne's plans, and this does her so much good. Climbing mountains! Going down coal pits! Crossing rivers on someone's back! Could anyone have imagined her doing stuff like that during season one? And all that's from the diaries, too. Plus, I'm living for those adorable nighttime scenes when they're in bed with their hair down looking so adorable and comfortable with each other. As they spend time together Anne will be forced by circumstances to pull down her walls and put aside the persona that she sometimes put up with Ann during their courtship, which will hopefully continue to be nice to see. I liked to see her admit her relationship with Mariana, I liked seeing her almost expect Ann to react badly ("what you have to understand is..."), but Ann didn't. Anne doesn't have to pretend with Ann, and I hope we see more honesty from her in the future, just in general, because she still always holds back. And I do believe her when she tells Ann that she's happier than she's ever been. Ann has made all her dreams come true. I also liked how willing she was to show Ann Mariana's letter and how she asked her permission to let Mariana visit, instead of trying to impose herself. She knows Mariana is an ex and it might be uncomfortable for Ann. I think Anne will take her marriage very seriously, and real Anne did too (though she WAS human and not perfect). I'm not super excited about the Mariana situation, though, so I'll just ignore it. 😂 Tib was fun and I was sad that we got so little of her. My favorite part was when she tells Anne that Mariana stole her from her and Anne gives her an affectionate shoulder bump. I don't even know what to say about the kids catching them kissing. Maybe Eliza is gay too and this will open her eyes? Or will Henry say something that will set the poor people against the Ann(e)s too, since the rich people hate them already? So that way everyone will hate them? Who knows. I feel like I don't have enough info to speculate about what the point of that was.

I was a bit surprised by that, but then I decided that I liked it. It allows the love story to still grow and evolve, and it opens the door for some good emotional moments when Anne finally accepts that she is in fact in love with Anne and not simply settling for her. I hope we see an "i love you" from her at some point. On the first viewing I was a bit exhausted because the episode felt so... FULL. So many things happening! bam! bam! bam! I understand that the episode probably wanted to put across the point that Anne's life is really full in this period, now that she has money and a wife and is excited about it all. But it was still a bit overwhelming, specially on the first viewing. The chemistry of the Ann(e)s remains and I thoroughly enjoyed all their scenes. I'm particularly excited about the potential in the story about Anne accepting that she is in fact in love with Ann. All of her actions and her reactions contradict what her words are saying. She claims to be "fond enough" and "satisfied with her" while she is basically turning Shibden upside down to make it comfortable with her. Then there's the way she looks at Ann when she's painting, the way that she goes pale when Eliza mentions that the reverend visited Ann in Scottland and how affected she is by the letter she gets from Ann, where Ann tells her that she's "entirely" hers. She also seems so relieved when Ann finally says she will write to her sister. And when she tells Ann that she's pretty, after they kiss, it's like it came from her soul... none of her usual flirty attitude, when she's almost playing the role of the seducer on purpose. Ann, on the other hand, is so in love with Anne and she's conscious of if, but one minute with her family is enough to set her all wrong. She might do much better if they lived away from Shibden, but of course, that won't happen. I enjoyed Charlotte and I wonder if we'll see her again. I really liked the comedic stuff of the episode, more than I expected. The bit about the gun and the search for the groom were really funny. I'm really looking forward to see what the honeymoon will bring... and not very excited about what Mariana will bring. PS: Anne's wedding ring has magic powers, it apparently can only be seen when she shows it to people, otherwise no one will notice it lol.

Episode three description: https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/search/?medium=tv-and-iplayer&week=17&year=2022&day=sunday Also, some (spoilery reviews): https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/tvfilm/gentleman-jack-series-two-review-suranne-jones-anne-lister-sophie-rundle-lydia-leonard-b993327.html https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/gentleman-jack-season-2-review/

Episode two description: https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2022/16/gentleman-jack

Episode one description: https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2022/15/gentleman-jack

BBC date is now official, we got a new promo and some new pictures.

Looks like the BBC premiere WILL be April 10th, at least according to one source: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/mar/25/uncompromisingly-gay-sally-wainwright-on-turning-gentleman-jack-into-a-global-icon

The official account for HBO Brazil shared the same teaser trailer we saw, but subtitled and with the date April 25th at the end. I suspect the official announcement will come very soon, but I think we can consider that confirmed as the premiere date. I saw it with my own eyes, but now I looked for it to put it here and I can't find the tweet, I don't know if they deleted it. That's weird. Maybe they jumped the gun and announced it too soon? But I did see it. I'm really hoping we get the official longer trailer very soon, like Friday or something. #fingerscrossed Before March ends, for sure.

I meant April 25th on HBO. Don't know about BBC.

We'll see, but my money is on April 25th. First trailer!