gingerella

Yes I know that but the guys on the street were street thugs trying to shake down Arya or worse rape her, so perhaps they've run afoul of A Man and his crew a few times and seen what they can do to perps. To me that still does not a ruthless assassin make. There is clearly a code of ethics that A Man abides by as seen with him saying that x number of men live so x number of men must die, or whatever the hell he told Arya at Harrenhell. He serves One God, and apparently from what we saw last night, there is ritualistic offerings, be it keeping a flame lit in front of each deity, or offering life for life as we saw him do with Arya and her hit list. And here, WS, is where we diverge my brother of the Spitball Wall, because you approach re-watches with the boldness and bossness of Jon Snow, whilst I, I'm afraid, approacheth such things with the timidity of Janos Slynt. I am ashamed, ashamed I tells ye...

I know, right?! Boss move indeed! I think Stannis will fall more deeply in man love with Jon Snow than he already is because he will see himself in Jon. Not for nothing, but Stannis, like Ned, is more in love with honor and Doing.The.Right.Thing than pretty much even boning Mel on a dinner table. Dare I say, Stannis gets off on honor and all that shit. So yeah, I see him having a big ol man crush on Jon Snow right about now, but who knows if it'll be reciprocated and whether Jon will heed Poor Man's Sean Connery and decide to take some men, or just himself, and help Stannis overthrow the Boltons and take back Winterfell. If that happens, I see Jon going back to the Wall at some point, but that's what I think today, I could change my mind tonight. I found it very interesting that there was another Red Witch in Volantis, for some reason I thought only Mel did what she did, but apparently there are others just like her. Interesting...Also creepy as hell when she locked eyes with Tyrion...Maybe Red Witches have the ability to see into people thus the weird looks Mel gave Jon. That said, in thinking of the Rubic's Cube Theory, we see more Lord of Light people elsewhere and in the Free Cities no less (wait, is Volantis a free city, I cant remember?). And we see a plethora of "gods" being maybe not worshiped but at least provided offerings in the House of Perpetual Sweeping and Dead People, but A Man clearly said that they only worship the One True God, right? Is that the Lord of Light too, or something else? Because the old gods and the new are both multi-deity religions aren't they, IIRC? Also, related to A Man and The House of B&W, folks up thread were talking about how these were a legion of highly trained assassins, but I don't think that's the case. I say this because when Arya presented her coin to the Braavos ship's captain, he immediately was taken aback with what I perceived as deep reverence for this girl who apparently was connected to the House of B&W, which he obviously knew of because he rowed her there and dropped her off personally. He never seemed scared of the place he was taking her, though he clearly had no intention of overstepping his boundaries and accompanying her to the door, but it felt to me like he was highly respectful of that place and those associated with it, but not fearful in a "holy shit, are you a highly trained face shifting assassin? sort of way. I rather think this is a very highly select religious order under the umbrella of whatever religion they are practicing. As for the men who keep showing up, drinking from that well and dying? Maybe they are Old Men who were one A Man and then became Nobodies, and they come there to end their life when it's time? The way Arya and Miss Bitch Face were cleaning that one guy's body indicated a ritual of cleansing for the dead, common in many cultures. It was not something one would do for someone that just wandered in off the street, yanno? I think this crew are like totally badass Benedictine Brothers and Sisters who happen to reach such religious attainment that they are then able to shift faces, along with becoming defenders of assholery committed against their One God. ETA: Shit man, how did you know that river had a name?! Am I that clueless when I watch A Show that I miss this sort of thing?! Or do you watch many times to grab little details like that? I feel clueless...! Also, re: the Boltons thinking a Stark in their house will appease the Northern Folks, I actually do think they are stupid and shallow enough to think that such a match would at least go part way in shutting up the Northern Folk. I could also see them using Sansa, or her safety as a pawn in their end game. As in, if you all don't fall into line with us, we will do heinous shit to your beloved Stark girl so straighten up and bend the damn knee to the Boltons now! You know what I mean? You know WHY I think they are stupid and shallow enough? Because even though Roose knows his bastard is fucked up, he still gave him his name anyway. Roose doesn't seem to bother finding out just how very fucked up his own kid is though, which doesn't bode well for, well, anyone really.

I thought that Bishop was the useless Tyrell dude, Emma Peel's stupid son, no? Well, you also have to remember that when he was shrieking that he was scared, he IS a fraidy cat, it was he who hid in the dark inner recesses of Castle Black with whatshername (Sam's lady buddy), remember that? I am pretty sure it is now known that he hid during that battle, so he is essentially useless to the Night's Watch because he would desert or hide when push comes to shove, so he is of no use to Jon or the NW, in fact, from this perspective he is actually a liability because who knows what he'd do in an emergency situation?! But Jon knows that he would not pull through or do the right thing to protect his men, he would hide or surrender so why allow him to live and put other NW in peril? I think Jon did the only thing he could, given the person in question and his inability to uphold his oath as a NW. I am glad Jon sacked the hell up and did what a leader has to do, though the echoing of S1E1 and Ned's first beheading we saw was not lost on me last night. Also not lost on me, was the words spoken by Poor Man's Sean Connery to Jon about his oath to protect men and wouldn't he be better protecting by fighting with Stannis...that? Was a great and very brief speech, IMO. Now A Viewer can see a way for Jon to leave The Wall, if even for a few months to fight with Stannis. I also very much liked seeing Sam taking a greater and more robust role amongst the NW. I loved when he quieted down the rabble rousers during that meeting with an air of mature authority that we have not yet seen from Sam. I could see Jon leaving him in charge if he rides with Stannis to take Winterfell, and I could see Sam delving further into his magic lessons to help protect the NW from what's coming at them. Oh, and Jon did say, though rather lackadaisically, Winter Is Coming...yeah, no shit Sherlock! I.Cant.Even. with Sansa right now. Damn you ChocoButt, for the worst spitball to come true yet in A Show! ;) LF seems to play the long game all the time. Looking for the long con all ways, always. So he must have a long game in all of this. I don't think he cares all that much that Cat died at Bolton's hand, he would likely say she deserved it for not choosing him long ago. But I honestly thought he wanted Sansa for himself and I wonder what he would have done if she'd said no, she would not marry a Bolton. I half expected her to say "why cant I marry you?" I really thought she was about to say that until he mentioned vengeance and then a little light went off in her head. Is Ramsey worse than Joffrey? Not really IMO. Joffrey was a bit more genteel, if that's possible, but lest we forget what he did to whores. Ramsey is like the hillbilly version of Joffs, no pretending to have manners or anything of that nature, just do the perverted shit and smile about it whilst telling Daddy Dearest. As for Reek turning back into Theon and Doing The Right Thing? I doubt that will ever happen. If he didn't help his own sister, would he feel more loyalty to a Stark girl? Maaaybe because the Starks raised him technically, so maybe he would feel more kinship towards Sansa, but I doubt it because let's face it, A Show likes fucking A Viewer up the ass with nasty, horrible shit. Sorry for that graphic reference but it's really childsplay compared to what A Show throws at us each season. So yeah, I am not holding out hope that Theon helps Sansa. I think she might think he will help her and mistakenly confide in him without fully understanding what has been done to him, and I could see him outing Sansa's Big Plan Of Revenge at some point, if indeed that's where she is heading. I do think Ramsey's fuck buddy will not take too kindly to Sansa though, and that troubles me. ETA: I don't think that Varys was in cahoots with Jorah at all, I think it was a happy accident for Jorah, and he saw a way to ingratiate himself with his Khaleesi again...much like a dog bring a dead bird back to its owner, wagging its tail like it's done a wonderful thing for its master. And count me in on the Varys Love Train, there has got to be more of a story for Varys, he is to me, the most intriguing character A Show has gifted us with and I could hear him talk for an entire episode of monologue. I dare A Show to give us one entire epi of Varys expositing about A Show! Oh, and I was definitely squicked out by the thought of Marge riding the Royal Baloney Pony, and I'm surprised Tommen was even able to do the deed, he looks so young. Blerg! It was also equally as squick worthy when Marge mentioned Tommen's sassy time skills to his mother. What.The.Fuck?! Who says that shit to their mother in law?! Uch. But I could not make out what the hell Cersei was implying when she repeated twice, "I am here if you need anything at all..."

All hail Janjan, First Expectorant of Her Name.

Holy shit, Pallas, that was beautiful, man...seriously. *claps slowly and with deep appreciation and affection*

What does it say about me that when I saw Jorah in the brothel with the Mother of Dragons pole dancer my first thought was, "Hmmm, I wonder if Jorah did the Dany look alike to relieve all that Dany frustration the dude must have felt"... *backs quietly out of the room hoping nobody notices what I just said out loud*

Wellllll, in keeping with random and errant spitaballery, what if: A. LF asked for Myrella's hand in marriage? I know, she is supposedly promised to the crown prince of Dorne but maybe the Prince, or someone else there, has decided that having their prince marry the daughter of the family that killed their beloved Oberyn is too much for Dorne to bear and it would prove to bring upheaval and chaos to the land known for its supreme art of fucking. That - LF marrying her daughter - Would freak the shit out of Cersei because she would be ale to do nothing about it really. I doubt this will happen but what if? B. Margery actually does finally marry Tommen and become The Queen only to find that she is unable to become pregnant? She would be The Queen and yet essentially worthless and useless because its a queen's primary function to provide heirs to the throne? I could totally see this happening and ol Marg losing her shit as she connives and schemes, Cersei style, to figure out how to procure an infant as hers. C. Margery isnt marrying Tommen, but instead her grandmother has arranged, unbeknownst to Marg, for her to marry LF because she wants her granddaughter as far away from the nasty Lannister family as possible. That's all I got before my morning coffee fix.

I cannot imagine thwt A Show will get rid of the dragons, I just cant see it at all.

I am going to spitball in another direction entirely for right now, because any of the options mentioned regarding Sansa being betrothed by LF to someone are all pretty much disgusting and heinous propositions that I cannot bear to think about, unless she is to marry Loras. But anything with her married off to any Frey or Bolton men would be horribly disgusting on so many levels that I.Just.Cant. So I was thinking just now...the title of A Show is Game of Thrones...with an "s", as in plural, as in more than one throne. But really, how many legitimate thrones do we have right now? The Iron Throne - seat of the ruler of Westeros/The Seven Kingdoms. This is the main "throne" I can think of right now but let's remember my memory is shit with A Show so there's that. Dorne - Is Dorne not part of Westeros/Seven Kingdoms because it seems they have a legitimate King to rule over them, Oby's brother. The Free Folk/Wildlings - Mance was their de facto "King" but it seems they have more sub-alliances than this season's Survivor so do they really have a King now? Or will they? I have a feeling "picking" a new King will be their downfall because of the fractures between sub-groups of Wildlings. Other "rulers" I don't think are actual rulers per se like he who sits upon the Iron Throne and/or Dorne's King. I mean, Theon's father isn't a real "King" is he? Isn't he merely the Lord of the Iron Islands? Same as Ned was to The North? And as much as Stannis likes to swan about telling folks he is the REAL KING, well, he's just not. Yet. So... Mireen - Technically for now, Dany appears to be the Queen of Mireen, whether she wants to be or not, but it also doesn't feel like a legit "Throne" to me because she swept into town with three dragons in tow and schooled the masters about slavery, but it's not the same as being anointed Queen of say, The Seven Kingdoms which seems more legit to me. What sayeth you all? The Free Cities don't have rulers per se hence being "Free", yes? Those cities include: Pentos, Braavos, and the place Mrs. Robb Stark hails from I think. What other cities are there? I don't know where I'm going with this, other than trying to take stock of what legit "thrones" exist other than the Iron Throne and perhaps the Dornish Throne... Lastly, Janjan, I think you asked about who changes the dragonettes collars as they grow...No fear, for they are likely wearing Draganimals elasticized neck collars, guaranteed to expand and grow with your growing dragonettes...Now available in a variety of colors and patterns at your local bazaar...

Walder Frey?!? Seriously Pallas, did you really have to go there? Now its your turn, TAKEITBACK right this minute! You guys are giving me indigestion with these hideous spitballs! ETA: IIRC, the Frey place isnt that far from Lyssa's place and LF did say he was taking Sansa far, far away and to the West yes? I dont think that would be Chez Frey.

No, I didn't think she did, which is why I didn't get the warm fuzzy vibe between them at all. It seemed like he bent down eying her and she reached out trying to touch him, but not quite, and he bared his teeth and sniffed her, then popped up and flew off. That's what I thought I saw. I wasn't so sure that Drogo was into her like he used to be. It felt like he was moving on, not really as connected to the Mother of Dragons anymore, and so I wonder what the hell he's going to do now. It doesn't seem like he checks in very often.

See, this is what I'm wondering too, but more along the lines of if/when Arya gets to a level where she is No One and can change her facial appearance, what if she finally does meet up with Sansa or one of her siblings, will she be able to show her face to them or not? I would hate to lose the current actress because I lerve her so much, but if Jaquen is still able to use that face, then there is hope for our Arya to be able to share character duties if/when she begins face shifting too. Which brings me back to thinking that LF is bringing Sansa to Braavos, I don't know why, I just feel it because it would mean Arya could likely not meet her sister. I would not be at all surprised if she actually sees Sansa but is told she is not allowed to let her know she is there, thus creating a huge emotional struggle for Arya...or not...perhaps in that situation she would not care much since she wasn't all that close to Sansa anyway. In many ways, I feel like Arya has emotionally switched off any love feelings she may have harbored for family. It's more like her love has transitioned to revenge to fuel her mission in killing everyone on her list, which BTW, seems to have grown radically shorter than last time we heard her list all the names, or is it just me?

Aw man, after reding Choco's post now I am not sure what I think of Theon's current fate. But I would like him to die already because, still not interested.

I'm with WS on this, don't feel sorry for that little fuckwit at all. I also wish he'd just die already, because A Show seems to torture A Viewer with the longevity of the most heinous of characters whilst the perfectly good ones perish in awful ways. But yeah, cannot feel sorry for Theon/Reek at all, though would love to see him die and be off my screen already. He just isn't interesting to me at all now. And he is past redemption.

Uch, Janjan, I'm now sensing that Ellaria is headed for Cersei 5.0, which is no bueno.

I really like this thought. It would be great if Dany would see the importance Jorah played in her life - both personally and professionally, and allow him back into the fold. I miss him a lot. Nobody said "Khaleesi" like he did, and he was the only one who still called her that...I liked that he was the only link - at least that we overtly saw - from her Drogo/Khaleesi days, and with Jorah gone for now, that part of her life is only represented by her dragons. Speaking of which, I could not figure out what was up with Drogo the other night. He looked as if he might eat Dany, or try to bite her or something - it was a weird dynamic. Also, a big fat WTF to a giant dragon flying hither and yon without the entire Westeros and beyond sounding the alarms that, yanno, a friggin' dragon is on the loose. It doesn't make any sense. People have got to have seen Drogo flying around screeching and burning shit, so like, why isn't anyone saying, "hey man, that lady over in Mireen has DRAGONS, so don't fuck with her!" Seriously...something is whack with that storyline. No offense to your new dragon, Janjan...which BTW, does your dragon have a name yet?

Wellll, regarding who it would be if it's Sansa's betrothal, I'd say perhaps across the Narrow Sea since LF did say "as far away as possible..." Could be Volantis and some royal House there, since Robb and Talisa were married and she was from Volantis. Though it does beg the question if that is possible if Sansa is still legally married to Tyrion, though if she told LF they never consummated their union, perhaps that's a Westerosi loophole? Now if LF was talking about himself, which would look odd to others since he wife just died right, maybe he's gunning for the Greyjoy girl? That old coot would love some cash for his tomboy, he's got no morals at all that guy. And the Iron Islands are across or in a/the sea, right? Mireen is out I think, not a lot of options there for marriage or otherwise. Oh wait! What about Pentos? Who is of marriage age in Pentos? Or Braavos? I think they're headed across the sea, closer to Arya. It would be sad if Arya and Sansa were in Braavos but Arya was already A Girl on her way to being Nobody, and Sansa did not recognize her. That? Would give me the sads real bad, but I could totally see that happening, though not for a long time as I'm sure it takes a long time for A Girl to get to where A Man is now. The only other betrothal would be he is marrying off Robin to someone far away, and getting someone to take Robin off his hands permanently...if so, I tip my hat to LF. That teat sucking nutbar is a PITA.

Last night's thoughts posted in wrong thead: My head is to full to post much tonight but I wanted to say two things: 1. A MAN!!!!!!!! I think I peed myself I got so excited!!! That said, methinks Arya's training will be far tougher than she could ever imagine, and I suspect she will, at times, regret using that coin because The House of Black and White scares teh bejeezus outta me already. 2. Lord Commander Jon Snow!!!! Commander of the Night's Watch, Heir-apparent to Winterfell one day maaaybe, and King of Wildling Oral Sex. Say what you will about Jon Snuh, the dude is firing on all cylinders right now! Be back later to digest comments and post more. Oh yeah, and Dorne! Varys! Drogon! WooHoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ETA: Nevermind, I'm back now! So, yeah, Dorne...lovely and weirdly just like KL but without the nastiness, or so we were led to believe. But Elaria seems hell bent on fucking that up with her cutting little girls up into pieces bullshit. Bitch be crazy and that means she'll be around for a while and Nice Dude wont, unless Big Burly Guard Dude cuts a bitch when she really steps out of line. It was indeed weird how she spoke to the King though. And who were the "snakes" she mentioned? She was wearing that snake bangle and someone upthread mentioned her being a bastard so yeah, maybe they call bastards Snakes there, instead of giving them the surname of Snow like they do in other places? I loved, Loved, LOVED the entire Varys exchange in the box coach. When he speaks, it's like satin threads of dialogue spinning out of his mouth, and fluttering around the room he is in at the time. His words just seem to float and hover as he delivers his thoughts to another, and I dont know that another actor could do that the same way. Just marvelous acting IMO! I adore that character and the actor and hope to hell he doesn't get killed any time soon. It's funny, I used to feel that way about Tyrion, but so far, I would be okay with him just ending up dead at this point, as long as I could keep Varys around. Varys has to set into motion the next round of events I think. That's his raison d'etre at this point, save the realm at all costs, and hopefully not get killed in the process. But its his life's mission at this point, and has been for years now. This is sort of like putting into play, the last big push. It would be sad if in the end, the ruler he helps get on the Iron Throne ends up just as demented as the rest of them...though maybe his choice doesn't make it that far. That Iron Throne, much like Brienne, has not brought much good to anyone, time to melt that shit down and make a dragon collar out of it! More later...

ChocoButt, you take that back right this minute! Do you hear me?! TAKEITBACKNOW!

Janjan, I freaking love your analysis of both Arya and Sansa!

Janjan, I love this line of thought so much! You are right I think, they both would have perished ages ago if they'd been foisted into reverse situations...I suppose when Ned lost his head (hee, sorry, it was too easy not to...), each ended up exactly where they were supposed to be in order to survive. BTW Janjan, I like your new dragon very much, but I do miss your ??? avatar greatly because it expressed how I feel most of the time after watching A Show! ;)

Benjen???

WS, I think Ned was observant to some extent, though not his greatest gift for sure, I added the extra adjectives but they don't necessarily mean Ned had 'em!

If I springboard off this current discussion, and assign a one-word adjective for each Stark child, and including Jon, I would do the below to match their overarching characteristics that A Show has shared with us thus far: Robb = Fighter Sansa = Observer Arya = Reactor Jon = Defender Bran = Seeker Rickon = TBD When I look at the above, I see a composite of a Stark, with each sibling having one dominant characteristic of Ned. We already know that the fighting gene did not bode well for Ned, Robb or Cat. But so far, the remaining Stark siblings, each of whom seems to have a piece of the Starkian make up/psyche, but not the whole enchilada in each kid, seem to be fairing better than their parents and eldest brother. If I take it a step further and assign a two-adjective description of each Stark sibling I end up with this: Robb = Noble Fighter Sansa = Quiet Observer Arya = Emotional Reactor Jon = Moral Defender Bran = Truth Seeker Rickon = TBD We all know now that if A Show has taught us anything, it is that "noble ways" don't amount to a pile of shit in this world. So no surprise Robb is dead. But the "quietness" of Sansa's observations has been growing with each season and I have high hope for her future story line. Arya reacts from a place of emotion, pretty much always. She is the most knee-jerk of her siblings, always has been since we first saw her learning to use a sword at Winterfell in S1. That is not the best Starkian quality to possess and yet, I think she will learn to harness her emotions for more precise purposes once her training in Braavos is complete (whatever that "training" might be). Jon is like the moral compass of the sibs, he is the defender of the downtrodden, wants to do "the right thing", again, not a great quality to have in this world they live in, but he has grown over 4 seasons and we now see him possess the qualities of compassion (not allowing Mance to suffer needlessly), and compromise - he is not rigid in thinking, and thus I feel more and more he would make a great ruler because he can be ruthless in the right moments, strategic under pressure, yet possess compassion and understand the importance of compromise. What qualities could a successful ruler have? Pretty much all of those. Jon is the antidote to the Lannister terrorizers. And then there's Bran, whose accident pushed him toward a destiny he likely would otherwise never had had, that of a truth seeker. What truth, we don't know yet. Rickon, I have no clue yet, he's a wild card as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps this doesn't make sense and sounds like gibberish...

I noticed this too and thought perhaps I'd just missed it but I think you're right, no more smoldering...I noticed the Weirwood Tree was very healthy looking in the opening credits too. Maybe that has something to do with the Scooby Doo Gang reaching the root peeps.