GrahamV

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I actually found the Gina and Dylan fight/hate sex scene in this episode to be pretty compelling. I'm not saying that any of the actors on this show are often given top quality material, but Luke Perry and Vanessa Marcil managed to actually make me feel something here, which is really saying something since I can't even remember the last time that happened on this show. Vanessa Marcil in particular always manages to elevate the material, imbuing more pathos and emotion than I think anyone was expecting, let alone the writers. By this point in the series, the actors were doing all the heavy lifting in terms of making the show watchable, and especially compared to most of the others who are coasting or phoning it in, Perry and Marcil are still working hard, and this scene, for me at least, demonstrates that. That they're working with such shoddy material demonstrates that they're also good sports and true professionals on top of everything else.

I think Steve and Janet getting held hostage by a desperate butcher with a knife as a result of an exploitative stunt involving a little person posing as a leprechaun has got to be a series low point. I actually laughed out loud when he pulled the knife out. It was just so unnecessary! They could have done this story without that weird hostage moment. There was also a lot of weird moralizing going on in this episode. Matt refusing to arrange a prenup for strangers is absolutely ridiculous and he's absolutely projecting his own shit on to clients which is super unprofessional, but I suppose that's par for the course (but interesting that he was still more or less fine with representing a guy who beat and stalked his wife). And Donna bitching about the store's publicity being a result of paying guests to show up is insanely naive, even for Donna. You live in BEVERLY HILLS and you don't know how this shit works?! Dylan was MVP for me though, swooping in and crushing Noah's dreams. You love to see it.

That's what bugs me most about this storyline too! I'm not a mental health expert, but I know that schizophrenia is not generally something that you can just snap out of, even with medication. It is an extremely serious mental illness that usually requires a lot of medication and care to stay on top of. They got a few things right (it usually emerges in late teens or early twenties), but the way they e described her recovery is so far off the mark. It makes me wonder why they didn't just go with a mental illness that *is* more manageable. Or just find another reason to have had Lauren be away from Matt for three years.

I'm sure Gina will wear out her welcome at some point (and probably soon), but for now she's one of the very few bright spots for me (relatively speaking of course). I think the thing that tends to doom all of these characters (tragically, even the great Val) is inconsistency and lack of plausible motivation. Sounds like Gina will be no exception.

That actually made me want to scream too. Noah didn't deal with shit! That whole scene was hilarious to me though. Dylan getting lectured by Noah, David, and Steve was pretty rich. As if any of those three idiots have any claim on the moral high ground. Steve was just charged for peddling bullshit pickup advice, Noah has a history of drunk driving incidents (we remember, even if the writers don't!) leading up to...uh, a couple weeks ago?, and David has never not been in some sort of financial, sexual, or drug-related fiasco entirely of his own creation. The writers have been doing Dylan ZERO favours this season so far, but watching Dylan essentially tell these losers to (justifiably) blow it out their ass was pretty great. Also, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm kind of living for Gina. Maybe it's just that everyone else sucks at this point, but Vanessa Marcil is a pretty solid bitch, and I'm genuinely enjoying her screentime.

Yeah, he accidentally shot Noah's friend Gywneth towards the end of last season. But shockingly, David actually brings that up in this episode as a reason why he wants Dylan to get rid of the gun. I guess the writers did do their research occasionally.

I thought I'd enjoy this episode more than I did. I've been waiting a long time for Brandon to fuck off, but I feel like the show just couldn't quite let us enjoy that, and instead subjected us to a final forty minutes of everyone blowing smoke up Brandon's ass. Val literally calls him an angel. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Yeah, this pissed me off more than a lot of shit the writers have pulled over the past couple of seasons, which is saying something. Val's initial setup on the show is fantastic. She just wants to mess with these nerds, and I can respect that. Even when they first start to dip into the why of it, it still holds up (she's damaged and insecure and has suffered her share of trauma). But once they got into the whole sexual abuse thing, it all starts to fall apart for me. They flip flop on her motivations constantly, and the show never seems sure of whether we're supposed to pity her, like her, hate her, sympathize with her...it's just a mess. TAT sells it, but she can only do so much. This whole seducing Mom's fiancé thing was just such an unnecessarily hard turn into unlikable territory for Val and she deserved better.

Yep, I'd be doing the exact same thing. Stirring that pot, making my own fun, sticking it to Brandon and Kelly. God this season was a chore.

Jesus this episode is a snore. Brandon saves the day via assumptions and speaking to people in a harsh, accusatory tone, Donna literally stumbles into further success against all reasonable odds, Val stirs shit up for no reason, David is pissy about literally everything and everyone he comes into contact with, Noah is there and useless. This sums up most episodes in season 8. While my hopes are not much higher for season 9, at least Brandon leaves, so they have to get a little easier to take.

That makes sense, thanks for sharing. That description sounds like it would have been much better than what we got. And it also explains a lot of the seemingly random plot lines that don't go anywhere. They probably ended up cobbling together bits of the ideas from their original pitch, but had to condense them to less than half the time they were counting on. More than anything I'm bummed we didnt get to see that full episode of the in-universe revival though. I bet that would have been something.

I kind of agree, there were too many storylines I didn't care about and that the show only seemed half-heartedly invested in. The stalker/arsonist storyline was ultimately pointless. And with 7 leads and 6 episodes, I felt like they didn't have enough time to really make the characters' personal lives truly engaging, so what time they did spend on it felt kind of wasted. Why bother spending ANY time on Jason and Camille's marital problems when it's going to be sidelined for half the season and wrap up via perfunctory exposition anyway, without any real drama? For me, the show was at its best this season when it was working the comedy, and focusing on the reboot itself. While I didn't really care about the characters' personal lives outside of that, their varied motivations for pursuing the reboot were very interesting, and I loved when they were all together. If the show were to get a second season, which I hope it does, in spite of my issues with it, I hope that the writers pick up on this and ditch all of the deadweight.

Bash is my favourite character too! I also appreciate how the writers and Chris Lowell have made him less of a spoiled rich kid than a surprisingly innocent, sweet, well-meaning guy. Of course, that baseline makes his arc in season three so much more interesting. He kind of becomes a huge prick, but you know most of it is stemming from an inability to be vulnerable, and deeply rooted insecurities that he refuses to face. I'd love a season four for so, so many reasons (GLOW has also become one of my all time favourite series), but Bash's road to self-acceptance (or not) is primary among them.

I agree, Shannen is quite good in Heathers. I remember reading an interview in EW a few years ago (maybe for the 25th anniversary?) and the director commented that he felt kind of bad for Shannen at the time of Heathers' release because she didn't really seem to "get" that the film was a dark comedy, and as such she more or less just played it straight. And then when she saw the film, she was embarrassed because she felt like her performance stood out from the rest of the cast who knew what the film was going for (don't quote me on this, I'm going by memory). I was surprised to read that, though, because I've always felt that she totally nailed her role in that movie, and her performance is totally in line with everyone else's. I only made it a few episodes into the TV reboot. Shannen appeared very, very briefly as JD's mom. She might have had more of a role in later episodes, but of the few episodes I watched, she was only in one and I don't recall her having any lines. I kinda dug where the series was coming from, and how it flipped things around and turned the "popular kids" from the film into power-hungry outcasts. But it quickly became pretty convoluted and it didn't take long for me to realize it didn't have a whole lot to say, and wasn't nearly as edgy as it thought it was.

Count me among those who found Jennie to be a highlight of the first episode. Surprising, considering I found Kelly to be super frustrating and annoying in the original series (at least by the time they got to the college years). She seemed to nail the tone that resonated with me the most - mostly campy and fun, but with just enough acknowledgment of the dark shit going on beneath the surface. Her snarky comments throughout got the biggest laughs from me. I will definitely keep watching, but as others have pointed out, the pacing felt a little off to me, and at times the first episode felt downright chaotic and weirdly hard to follow. I feel like I missed bits and pieces of dialogue because the editing was so jumbled. But hopefully that evens out once they start following a more linear, cohesive storyline.

I think the key word you use is "artifact." For whatever reason, it seems like teen shows today assume that audiences need a greater hook than just "teen drama" in order to attract viewers. Hence, we get shows that are all about an identifiable "thing" - murder mystery! Werewolves! Witches! The attitude seems to be that plain old teen drama is old fashioned and irrelevant. Hell, I'd go so far as to say even the "social issue" shows you mention (glee, secret life, etc.) are kind of passé now, with the exception of 13 Reasons, but that also kind of ties into the mystery category. And maybe that attitude is accurate - maybe audiences wouldn't tune in for a show in the same vein as 90210 or The O.C. But I know many people who continue to rewatch those shows again and again, and I know many who have discovered and enjoyed them well after they've gone off the air. I think there's always a market for exploring relationships and the trials of young adulthood in a (relatively) down to earth way. Personally, I hope we eventually circle back to teen drama for its own sake.

Honestly I would have killed to see a Dylan/Val farewell makeout sesh. Dylan and Kelly made zero sense to me, and the fact that they were weirdly retconned into being an endgame pair was absolutely born of convenience and bad writing, as opposed to realistic, thoughtful character development seeing as how there was no one left from the OG cast to pair with either of them by the time LP returns. Dylan and Val on the other hand, had chemistry like crazy.

Totally agree. Everything about them mid-post college is ridiculously "adult." Like I get that some wealthy kids of wealthy parents might have some opportunities land in their laps, but good god, that the show expects us to believe that Steve and Brandon somehow *earned* the Beverly Beat, or that Donna became a fashion designer based on pure spunk and raw talent - all within a year of graduating college - is a bridge too far for me. While they did play the typical "oh, it's so hard to be a graduate when there are no jobs!" card, of course that all got sorted out before anything interesting or realistic could occur. Even Val owning a club is a stretch, but given that the PPAD is hardly a success, and Val is a badass, she's the only one I kinda sorta buy having the job that she does. Plus, it doesn't help that most of them (with the exceptions of Val, Donna, and David) all dress like they're well into middle age. Brandon's suits and ties are hilariously out of place on a character that's supposed to be in his early 20s.

I buy that. I find it interesting that the writers often end up with character traits that do track, more or less, but they don't even seem aware of it. Like I highly doubt Kelly's poor choices in boyfriends and her reasons for pursuing them being a result of her troubled upbringing and parental issues was EVER done intentionally, nor is it acknowledged among the characters. It always feels like coincidence, which is almost more maddening than if it didn't make sense at all.

Speaking of GC staying on the show, how do you think they could've skirted the pregnancy storyline? Or could they have at all? Personally I think Andrea accidentally getting pregnant would work, so long as she decided to give the baby up for adoption at the end of it (of course, that rarely happens in tv, especially in the 90s, because keeping your baby was still considered the only option, despite many shows paying lip service to other options). That would have been way more in character for Andrea, and could have totally circumvented all the boring marriage storylines and the addition of making Jesse (ugh) a main cast member. Clearly they intended to keep GC on post-pregnancy, so why they chose to have her keep the baby and thus write her character into a corner, is beyond me. And to be honest, we all know that GC already seemed so much older than the rest of the cast. Turning her into a literal mother during her freshman year only exacerbated the perceived age gap.

Yeah, I think Andrea's struggles as a single mother could have actually been interesting. One of her final storylines was her cheating on Jesse with that doctor, and I found it surprisingly realistic for Andrea to be wanting to explore relationships with other people after having impulsively married one of her first boyfriends after getting accidentally pregnant after like 3 dates. Like, of COURSE that's what an 18 year old would end up doing (...passing off Andrea as 18 is another issue entirely, but I digress). I was even rooting for her to leave Jesse and recognize how her decision to marry him wasn't a good one (they were a TERRIBLE match after all). Unfortunately, however, the writers lost the nerve to actually "go there" and naturally had Andrea realize the error of her ways and reconcile with Jesse. I like to think the show would've been better if she had ended up leaving him and stayed on for the rest of the series. Maybe she'd have had a chance at some meatier storylines (for all the crap she gets for being too old for her character, I'll stand by my belief that GC was one of the best actors on the show, and like TAT, at least managed to give her character some weight even when the writing didn't). But the truth is that they probably all would've been boring as hell anyway, as was par for the course after season 5. Nobody on 90210 ever really got to do anything with real, interesting consequences that lasted longer than an episode or two.

I know it's mentioned by our hosts but omf I don't think there has been a more egregious example of WHO CARES?! than the Steve/Jill/Ted mistaken identity subplot, if only for the reason that it goes on for four episodes. I was surprised when it actually carried beyond one (which is pretty standard for STUFF-y plot lines like this one), but when it carried over beyond 2, I hit up IMDb only to find that it actually lasts 4. Talk about bottom of the barrel. It baffles me that this show made it two more very long seasons after this.

This. Val was terribly written, but I think the reason she still works as well as she does is TAT is one of the better actors on the show and actually manages to make Val seem like something approximating a real human being. If it weren't for her, Seasons 6-8 would be unwatchable.

That was my immediate thought. Especially because David was so weirdly, conspicuously vague about what song it was. It seemed like it wasn't just any old song. On the other hand, I can't imagine anyone paying anything for Precious. But far more unlikely things have happened on this show (hell, in this episode!)

That painting looks like the kind that used to hang in Boston Pizza in the late 90s-early 00s (any other Canadians know what I'm talking about?)