icecweem

I'm just wondering if MJs nephew will create a documentary in MJs defense. I think that may sway some peoples opinions as well.

Sooooo no one is going acknowledge the fact that James Safechuck claimed he was abused at the Neverland train station from 1988 to 1992 but the station wasn't built until 1993 and it didn't finish until 1994. Just putting that out there.

I'm not 100% sure on this one which is why I never used it for debate but something along the lines of the Beatles music catalogue. I know Sony purchased most of MJ's share of the rights to the Beatles songs but that alone earned the estate 750 million for just 50% of the share if I'm not mistaking. MJ also owned some of Elvis's hit songs as well (not sure which ones) and Eminem's back catalogue. Point is, technically he still owns A LOT so one could argue that the documentary could not only ruin his legacy but also his rights to these catalogues. So suing the estate could be one of the biggest paychecks any of them would ever see. And I think it's easy to say to people "hey if you say such and such in this documentary then I'll give you x amount of dollars when we win the case." I'm not sure if people believe its a power thing where they don't want MJ to own any of the catalogues because they could be making money off of it still or whether it's racially motivated. I have no idea but I'm on the fence so I can't really speak for true supporters. This is just what I've heard so far.

I agree, people need to value their live's over money but sadly some cannot which is why a lot of times people do turn a blind eye because they can't fathom the idea of having financial troubles. I feel like at the end of the day everything stems back to money hence why Wade's parents kept allowing him to go back there.

These are all fairly good points you guys are pointing out and it is actually shifting my original opinions of the whole situation. It is a sad and unfortunate thing that this even has to be talked about. I would hate for any of this to be true because MJ was someone A LOT of people looked up to yet to find out that he's this predator is mind blowing. I wish all this would've been settled while he was alive because now the only people left that this will have a damning affect on is his family and they certainly don't deserved to be punished because of MJ's actions (unless of course they knew about it and still protected him).

I think documentaries should have the responsibility to tell both sides. You can favor whatever side you want but at least the opposing side would still be in there. If neither side has PHYSICAL proof then there's really nothing anyone can do but believe them or not believe them. The term "innocent until proven guilty" is there for a reason.

Now I understand why everyone in the chat is convinced the claims are true. There are literally no counter arguments addressed throughout this whole documentary hence why HBO is being sued for the documentary now (among other reasons). You have family members of MJ as well as other boys Michael befriended that claim it isn't true as well Wade's cousin who claimed Wade is lying (the cousin claimed to have spent time with MJ too and Wade never addressed his cousins claims). I get the point of MJ being particular about who he touched or violated but lets be honest here; how easy is it for Wade or James to say "yes MJ sexually abused me" nearly 10 years after he passed away. If it truly affected him his whole life, why wait until you get rejected as a lead choreographer in a Jackson themed tribute to write a book or start remembering what MJ did to you (I wonder if this documentary would even exist if he never got rejected). Nothing adds up but no one here believes this because the documentary didn't even attempt to address the other side. When your story constantly changes, it makes it harder for people to believe you. But since it is pretty much the waiting game at this point, we'll see if any money comes out of them doing this. If so then now you know what they did it for. If money was never a factor, you wouldn't need an HBO documentary to come out, that's the power of social media. Oh and before anyone claims that I'm such a fan of MJ that i only want to defend him, wrong, I don't particularly care for him but I wouldn't want his legacy tarnished because of lies.

I somewhat doubt their accounts and its not because they waited to speak out. I think I doubt it because during the documentary, I remember a part where I think it was Wade, was saying the first time Michael tried to penetrate him and I remember thinking, why the hell would a kid go back to that if you were in pain? At some point you have to say okay this isn't right. However it is sketchy with the waiting thing because MJ has been dead for almost 10 years so its kind of hard to argue being afraid to speak out when its been 10 years. Now they could be telling the truth but watching that documentary just makes you think something isn't adding up for both sides. There's no way in hell the parents didn't know what was going on if it was. I also think its possible that MJ never really had a childhood so hanging around kids was his way of trying to experience that. If they cared about MJ as much as they claimed they did in the documentary I think they would still be protecting him. I don't know where but somewhere something has to be money related and that's just the sad truth.

True, I liked him with Faith also but whatever he had with Karen could never just stop. No matter what he did, they would always just end up back together.

This show is every woman's worst nightmare. How can anyone watch it and think, let alone say/write, that they have no sympathy for the woman being victimized here? Edited to add: I'll admit I found Beck irritating throughout the series, wouldn't want to be her friend, and was tired of and annoyed by her voice and mannerisms by the end of the series. But I am still very sympathetic to the horrifying situation she has found herself in, which she never could have expected from what she knew. Its every woman's worst nightmare. It doesn't even come close to the level of things like cheating on your boyfriend. Did anyone ever confirm if it was a finger or a tampon? I thought it was a tampon. A finger to open Benji's phone seems silly - once you have it open once, you just change the settings to not require a passcode in the future. Much simpler than keeping a gross decomposing finger laying around. And how long could it possibly unlock a phone after it starts to decay? I agree with you there but I never really had a problem with Beck. I was actually kind of disappointed at the end. I think people like Joe's character more even though he's a psycho, there's something about his character that is appealing even when you don't want it to be.

I actually disagree. I think the fact that she's a pretty cringe-worthy character makes her a great actress. To me she sells that annoying role and I can't remember off the top of my head exactly how her character is (other than annoying) but that whole fake Boston accent just seems to be apart of her persona. I hated her in the show for sure but it just made me realize she's selling her character pretty well. If anything blame the writers not the actress.

I've watched some of this documentary and I never seen so many red flags in my life. Red flag 1: Michael sleeping in the same bed as the children (weird). Red flag 2: When the parents took Michael to court and settled for money, it makes you wonder if they're parents cared more about money than their kids getting sexually abused. And worst of all is even after all off that, they still allowed their children to see Michael after the fact. Makes no sense whatsoever. All I know is there's believable parts on both sides and we need to face the fact that without proof we'll never know. I feel like you cant go most of you childhood and adulthood claiming Michael never touched you then ALL OF A SUDDEN HBO wants to do a documentary and here you pop up. Timing is weird especially after the surviving R. Kelly documentary. I don't know what to believe. ALSO, Michael's number 1 problem was trying to look good in white people's eyes. He cared wayyyy too much about how white people perceived him and that alone damaged him.