statsgirl

Maybe we could connect with other people to go with here on the board so we wouldn't have to go alone. SDCC is too far away for me but something closer and more affordable I could do.

It quite possibly did say "Laurel smiles". Would the scene have played differently if it had been a bittersweet smile instead, since Sara was going off to a bad place? It's a small point but she said that she's been working out for the past month to become the Black Canary. I think she should have dropped "the past month" because as a viewer, I think she should have started doing martial arts and working out as soon as she heard the pilot was picked up if they promised her the Black Canary role. It's not the boniness because Celina Jade is quite thin, it's the lack of physicality that makes it hard to believe Laurel Lance can be the Black Canary. Stephen Amell, Caity Lotz, Celina Jade, Manu Bennett, all of them work out so hard to be able to do the fight scenes that their characters require. If Katie Cassidy doesn't feel she needs to do the work until she's handed the black leather jacket, that's her choice, but someone needs to tell her not to broadcast it to the audience.

Wow, HighHopes, that's an interesting group. Thanks for linking to it. It sucks to be given a job as the leading lady on a show that becomes popular and then have other people take on what you thought was your role. But that's the business. I doubt Colin Donnell was thrilled to find out that he was being killed off because everyone was predicting that he would become the Dark Archer but even after he knew he was losing his job, he was still out there doing publicity. The Laurel Lance role has been a mess and hard to promote, which is why I think KC should have consulted the PR department or hired her own consultation. Instead of saying that season 2 has been Laurel's island, she could have been saying that this year has been very hard on Laurel, losing Tommy, wanting to run away into addiction, finding out that Sara is alive and having to deal with that, losing her job and the havoc that Blood brought on the city, emphasizing the strain on Laurel rather than pushing that Laurel is now equal to Oliver and Sara in terms of crucibles. Instead of saying that she's been working with a trainer for a month in anticipation of being the Black Canary next season, she could be saying that she's been working out because she'll do what she needs to for her role as Laurel Lance. Instead of telling her fans that Laurel and Oliver are Made For Each Other, she should be emphasizing the ties between them. If I were her agent, I'd be telling her to do whatever media she can for the show so that viewers clamor to see more of Laurel rather than have half the posts on spoiler sites be worrying that she's going to be the Black Canary next season.

Colin Salmon played a charming psychopath in an episode of Death in Paradise (a show I recommend). He was as believable there as he is as Walter.

If I could, I would go to a small con rather than a big one like SDCC. There are three near me (no one from Arrow booked yet). Two are huge and scary. The third is a small one run by fans and while the stars aren't as big, you get a chance to know them better. (Peter Davison of Dr. Who/Albert Campion was a real sweetheart last year.)

If Oliver doesn't think he can be with a woman he cares about because of what he does, how will he feel about the responsibility of a 7 year old son? I assumed that when the baby reveal came, it would be about Oliver trying to decide whether he should marry the girl and make a family for his son, but this is better. Hopefully the kid has functioning grandparents that he can go back to when the arc is done.

Thea is such a selfish brat the first episodes. I can understand why, she was rich, she'd virtually lost her family when she was 12 and her mother was still letting her get away with everything, but she's not a pleasant person. I wonder why I still feel sympathy for her, maybe it's because Willa Holland sells that Thea really does love Oliver even when she's complaining about him. I think the problem with Laurel has always been that what the writers think they are putting across for her isn't what we see. When people complained about her Thanks, quarks. It's such a beautiful island, the people who live there must be lucky.

I doubt they will be over the hiatus, too much opportunity for Laurel/Oliver shipping to leave them off screen. I will be happy if they are just conversations and not pillow talk. I'm trying to decide which would be worse for Oliver to make a go of a relationship with next season, Laurel or the mother of his child who doubtless will return next season.

quarks, maybe I liked seeing Oliver and "Digg" gradually grow to respect each other. While always entertaining, I think sometimes Oliver's training sessions get a little ridiculous. When he deliberately dropped the five blocks of concrete and they broke, I thought 'Not a good idea, now you're going to have to go out and bring in five more so I can keep working out'. Laurel kept ping-ponging from crusading lawyer with the client to petulant child every time she was in a scene with her father. The ice cream scene with Oliver was weird because it was neither fish nor fowl. She snarked at him quite a lot but then she gave him the advice on how to present himself to his mother. I wonder if the problem with it was that the purpose was to have Oliver in her apartment when the Triad made the hit but there wasn't a good way to write Oliver there. When Oliver first walked into Laurel's apartment, he commented that it looked the same as it had looked five years before and she replied "I didn't have time to redecorate", as if she was too busy doing important things to have the time to do something to her apartment, superior to mere mortals. I don't know why but Laurel just rubs me the wrong way. It actually makes a lot of sense -- he was idolizing his father at that point in order to "honor his memory" by cleaning up the Glades. That his mother could marry someone else was dishonoring Robert's memory.

I didn't know it was on Vancouver Island. That must have entailed quite the logistics, to get cast, crew and set on the ferry across to the island every time they needed to shoot a scene there.

When Felicity went to Diggle's apartment in The Undertaking to ask him to come back, there was a trumpet on a counter in the background. I'm trying to decide if this is adding nuance to Diggle's character, or stereotyping. (Does David Ramsey play the trumpet in real life?)

HighHopes, it seems a pity to miss it when it's so close. Is that a bus you could take?

I am really hoping that they will consider the GA/BC getting together/breaking up as Oliver/Laurel in the past because there's nothing I like less on a TV show. I'd even rather have no relationships than on again/off again. Unfortunately, Marc Guggenheim has said that this is one of the attractions of Oliver/Laurel. Well it is to him, anyway. But what were they really risking? Unlike in the past, Oliver and Laurel weren't dating. They'd even friend-zoned each other in City of Heroes. Neither Oliver nor Sara had responsibilities towards anyone else, they were both free and adult. Maybe Laurel getting hurt because they were together (and at that point wasn't she dating Sebastian Blood?) but Oliver was okay with Laurel being with Tommy, if Laurel was really over Oliver, she wouldn't be hurt, other than her pride, In terms of what happened in those episodes, I do think that it made a difference to have Oliver and Sara together as a couple. Felicity would still have been upset by Sara's prowess but knowing that Sara was Oliver's SO made it that much worse, for me at least. Having Oliver and Sara argue about killing vs non-killing Roy and Helena, while they were a couple since couples usually agree, made it more of a point when Felicity was the one to tell him to go after Slade and do what he needed to do to get Thea back, and strengthened Felicity's connection with Oliver. It also made Sara's decision to go with Nyssa make a bit of sense since Nyssa loved her and Oliver didn't. It made Laurel look even more delusional in her :"I know you in my bones" speech but I've always thought that Laurel only saw things from her point of view. I think having Oliver and Sara in a relationship was like salt, the ingredients would have been the same without it but being in a relationship added an extra punch. It also made Oliver's 'I love you' a bit more believable since I could say "ah, that's why Sara broke up with him". . I agree that it wasn't fair to Sara's character and I'm hoping they fix that next season or even better in a BOP spin-off. I get the impression that they didn't know what a hit Sara/Caity Lotz would be, they were saving the emotional growth of the BC for Laurel. Now they're really in a bind.

Hee. And yet, the EP (I think it was Kreisburg but it may have been Guggenheim) said in an interview that what Moira threatened wasn't going to happen, it was actually going to bring them closer together. What they think is happening on screen is often not what we the audience see. The problem is, of course, that Oliver is often a fool, especially when it comes to the people in his life that he cares about. He misjudged his father, he couldn't believe his mother would be involved in anything bad, he thought Isabel was helping him with QC. that Thea was better off not knowing about everything (Roy, her father, Oliver as the Arrow) even though they had already had her acting out in s1 when Moira tried to hide from her Robert's infidelities, he thought he could save Helena, and Diggle has often pointed out his blind spot with Laurel. So even though we saw Oliver as abandoning Felicity because he was so wrapped up in Slade and the Lance Family Drama, he may not have thought he was abandoning her. I don't have a problem with either the Oliver/Sara relationship of the Oliver/Felicity lead-up, providing the show doesn't do a 180 on me again. First, you have to remember that Oliver told Laurel back in the s2 premier City of Heroes that even though they care about each other because of what they've gone through, friends is what they're going to be Laurel may still have feelings for Oliver, and KC plays it that way, but I hope Oliver is done with that as a romantic relationship. He felt a responsibility to Laurel when she showed up at Verdant drunk but he called Sara to have her handle it and told Thea to call Laurel a taxi rather than drive her home himself. He shouldn't have gone to the family dinner at Laurel's place and he sort of knew that (because it did hurt her) but overall he's pretty clueless and Sara was asking him not to make her go alone (trying to save Sara?) and Felicity pushed him to go. But he does know enough not to start things with Felicity because she's a romantic and it wouldn't be a FWB with her. (Interestingly, SA said that the Oliver/Felicity scenes in Unthinkable were right given the arc they had had all season so I guess it really was A Plan.) On the other hand, there was Sara needing comfort after the fight with Laurel, and they'd been through a lot, and since he's not the kind of guy to be celibate if he doesn't have to be, it makes sense to be sleeping with Sara. They've both been through a lot, together and apart, they're both damaged and looking for comfort, and they were unfinished business. The big problem I have with the relationship is that the show never explored it properly. But to Olivier's credit he never said I love you to Sara or lied to her, and to Sara's credit, when Oliver freaked when she asked if he was asking her to move in with him, she realized that he wasn't at that place and broke up with him (unlike Laurel who went apartment hunting). I don't think Oliver got together with Sara to get over Felicity, I think he compartmentalized. There is something courtly love-like about how Oliver treats Felicity (I can't remember who posted that but it feels right), whereas Sara is a companion-at-arms and someone he cares very much about but not in a romantic love way right now.

I e-mailed Ausiello to ask if the show is going to do the usual 5 month wait. But because I'm mean, I only asked about Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. (Not Laurel, I didn't want to give him the idea I cared about her.) ETA: corrected to reflect that this is my opinion only, although the other 2 people in my household agree.

I don't get BBC America, it's in a more expensive package. Sometimes they play it on Showcase. (That isn't Jamie Bamber's real accent??)

Yes, when they said they didn't have time for Felicity's backstory in s2, I was worried that it was because she was becoming less important to the show. Now I'm tending to think that it's because they wanted to put their daddy issues into s3 with Thea/Merlyn, Oliver and Diggle. KC may think that Laurel is the heart of the show because she's trying to do (e.g. at CNRI) but she's become tangential to the main show. The EPs have hopefully got the message that Team Arrow is the core of the show because they've been saying that next season will be more "intimate" which I take to mean it will be more about Oliver/Diggle/Felicity rather than like the second part of this season in which Diggle and Felicity were mostly supporting players. Felicity is the heart of the show because 1) she is the only one who been against killing and wanting to give people another chance, seeing the good in them; 2) she's the one trying to get people to make up when they've been fighting (e.g. going to Diggle in s1 to get him and Oliver back together); and 3) she believes in doing what's right even though there is a cost to her (e.g. telling Oliver about Thea's paternity). She also calls people on their crap, especially Oliver. Laurel has pulled enough dirty tricks that she doesn't get to be the team's conscience either, no matter what KC may think. I could see Laurel as legal liaison for the Team but I don't see a place for her working in the new cave right now. Roy is the muscle, Diggle is the brains and the gravitas, Felicity is the IT and conscience, and Oliver is The Leader.. This is a good example of the problems with Laurel. First, Tommy wouldn't have died if she had listened to Oliver, Moira or Quentin and kept out of the Glades as they told her to. Second, she wasn't in a relationship with Tommy at the time because as soon as Tommy told her that Oliver still cared for her, her eyes lit up and she went to Oliver to ask him if it was true, and then she slept with him as Tommy watched from outside in the street. (Another reason why she's not the heart of the show because the heart should have some moral values.) I can feel sorry for her that she's finally realized it's Tommy she loved and how hard losing him was on her but she did do her share of bringing that on herself.

Colin Salmon is going to be in the last episode of Law & Order: UK. I wish there was a channel over here that I could see it on. It was strange to see him with an American accent on 24.

I'd forgotten how great the appearance of the Black Canary was. Without even saying a word. Now that EBR has said that Felicity is afraid of a lot, I'm really starting to see it. She was scared in the airplane, she was scared to do the parachute jump (I loved that Diggle told her they'll do it in 'three' and then jumps with her on 'one', and that he thanks her for not throwing up until they had landed). The fact that she's terrified but she still goes ahead and does what she thinks needs to be done makes me like her more. When the plane left, I wondered how they got back to Starling City but I guess Oliver had a boat that he took to the island and moored there. Poor Thea, people really do forget about her. Walter is gone, Moira's in jail and Oliver's on the island. At least she had Roy, and even more impressive that she determined to keep the club going with no experience. She could have just given up and run away too. I liked that Robert Queen's death had put Oliver on the road to killing and Tommy's death made him determined to stop. Then Thea got kidnapped and Felicity told him to find another way (bookmarked at the end of the season when she told him again to find another way to defeat Slade without killing him) and he does. Moira telling Oliver that he has family reminded me that she did make a good CEO. Quentin was sort of bonding with Felicity, setting up that connection this season.

I liked that they stuck to real time in the first two hiatuses (hiata?) but I want this one should start right away. Not only will we miss Diggle's reactions to Laurel, but we'll miss Oliver trying to find a place to live and Oliver, Felcity and Diggle all looking for new jobs.

The EW finale awards are in and Arrow won for Most Likely to Earn an Emmy for stunt co-ordination. Here's an interview with stunt coordinator J.J. Makaro and fight coordinator James Bamford, The logistics of the fights really make me appreciate the work that went into it. http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/28/arrow-stunts-finale/ Nothing else, although 'Oliver telling Felicity he loves her' lost Most Rewound Moment by 245 votes to Damon saying goodbye to Elena on Vampire Diaries, and Arrow came close in Best Fight (for sheer retributions, I'm glad May beating up Ward on S.H.I.E.L.D. won). http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20593459_20820828,00.html

Good thought, icandigit. I wish they would do webisodes of Diggle and Felicity hanging out between traumas.

Inadvertant funniest line of the pilot: Tommy at the welcome home party, pointing out three women: Oliver, it's been 1,839 days since you've been laid. Oh, if only he knew! Also, I was struck by Robert Queen's response to Oliver for Sara being on board "This isn't going to end well for either of then". Seriously? How about "You're dating her sister. This is beyond acceptable, get her off this boat right now." Did neither Moira nor Robert know how to parent?. Yes, I thought she would be very Evil Queen so it's a pleasant surprise that she was layered more grey. and shown to be terrified of what Malcolm Merlyn would do to what remained of her family. Her scene when The Dark Archer shot the Asian man in front and she's was trying to wipe the blood off her hands was chilling. I agree, but I think it got worse later on the island. But starting from that, Oliver was traumatized and we could clearly see why pre-shipwreck Oliver was such a contrast to present day Oliver. Laurel had her good moments in the pilot but the characterization was a problem from the beginning. She told Oliver that he could talk to her if he ever needed anyone to talk to, and then never listened to him. She was always quick to take offence in the early episodes. Danny Franks, it was Adam Hunt who was on the list, played by Brian Markinson who like Roger Cross (Quentin's buddy) seems to have a contract to be in every show filmed in Vancouver. Adam Donner was the ADA who Laurel worked for in season 2 before the actor went back to Orphan Black.

Diggle has a wonderful sense of which women are good for Oliver: Thea, Sara, Felicity yes; Moira, Helena, Laurel no. Please don't ever change. Could be worse.... they could have Diggle be the one to train her.

BkWurm, thank you for going through the Laurel/Oliver videos. I salute you. I'm struck by how little chemistry SA/KC have compared to SA/EBR. All you have to do is turn off the sound and it's glaring. I was watching clips from the upfronts, and of course SA and EBR get asked first about that scene. In an IGN clip, SA talked about how what they shot was different than what came out in the edit, and how it made the scene much tighter and better. In a separate interview, EBR talked about how it was the last scene they shot at the studio and things were being cleaned out which made the sound much more cavernous and impressive. I've never heard KC talk about what makes up her scenes that way. If SA and EBR see making the show in much the same way, it's something that gets created and you do the best job you can, I can understand why they would be more comfortable with each other. I wonder if working on soap operas for a few years would help Katie Cassidy. I love Diggle, he's so open with his feelings about Oliver's women and the only ones he approves of are Felicity and Sara. Maybe McKenna but he never really got to know her. With Felicity, no sooner does she join the Team, with Diggle's full approval as they worked trying to save Oliver together, than she quits because she doesn't like the killing (Dodger). As Oliver tries to intimidate her with his size, Diggle is in the background grinning because he likes to see Oliver being stood up to.