statsgirl

To briefly digress on to Castle, which along with Arrow and occasionally OUaT are the three shows I talk about: After the suits watched the pilot and decided to pick up the show, the note that came down was to dial back the UST for both characters because it looked like they were ready to jump into bed with each other. Creator Andrew Marlowe had to hit the brakes hard. I think one of the biggest mistakes showrunners make is that they don't know when to end the 'will they/won't they' and put the characters together in an enjoyable way that doesn't ruin the show (e.g. making it all about the relationship rather than crime-fighting, or having them get together, break up, get together again (yuck)). Whether it's because it's a different kind of writing for two characters who are in a relationship or because someone is afraid that giving the lead a permanent relationship will hurt the show, or because the show runner is putting himself on screen (as I suspect the HIMYM ones were), I think dragging things out too long hurt the show. The only contrivance that ever made sense to me was Buffy not being able to sleep with Angel because he would turn into Angelus and even that only lasted a short time. As someone who enjoyed both Macmillan and Wife and Hart To Hart, I didn't see what the problem was about getting Castle and Beckett together. I gave up on Bones for that reason, and I have a suspicion that if Emily Deschanels hadn't got pregnant, Booth and Bones would still be single. I still haven't bought the DVDs of seasons 3 and 4 of Castle when both Beckett and Castle turned into idiots with all the plot contrivances to keep them apart. I've enjoyed the last few seasons a lot, including this seasons finale which many people hated, because I enjoy seeing them together, rather than worrying about whether they will be together. I think part of the problem is that the showrunners don't know how long the show is going to be on the air so it's very difficult to plot properly. J.M. Strazynski did it well in planning Babylon 5 for a five season arc, and then he had to mess it up when they thought they weren't going to get a 5th season. The way TV works really hobbles those who want to produce good quality shows. To relate this to Arrow, I don't want 1) Oliver doing the James T. Kirk manwhore thing with a few different women every season; or 2) getting together with someone only to break up again, wash, rinse, repeat (Marc Guggenheim's idea of romance) or 3) the show to be about the relationship with Diggle and other characters swept aside. Whether Oliver gets together with Sara or with Felicity (not with Laurel, please), I want it to be written as an adult relationship and have Team Arrow concentrate on defeating the villains and supervillains. (This is something I can also see on Once Upon a Time, with Hook and Emma being badass warriors together.) Just cut the 'will they/won't they' to a minimum. It makes sense to me to make that a season-long arc ETA: I fanwank that for Oliver, Sara was a FWB relationship, which is why he was surprised that she interpreted the 'let's find a place we can live' to equal asking her to move in with him. For Felicity, who seems to be very inexperienced in relationships, he knows that she would interpret any move towards her as real romantic feelings.

I would be okay if the Connor storyline (we're guessing that's his name, right?) only lasted a brief few episodes to move one or two of the characters forward in development and then the kid went home with his mother to Central City. It is way too early for Arrow to bring on a Cousin Oliver (Brady Bunch reference). I think it's more about permitting himself to love someone. in Season 1 he pushed Laurel away, telling her he was a bad person to love, until he thought that he could defeat Malcolm Merlyn and have a normal life, and then he went to her. When he realized that disaster struck in his wake anyway, he decided that because of what he does (being a vigilante) he can't etc. etc. He loved Moira and because he did, Slade killed her. He loved Thea and because he did, Slade kidnapped her and later orphaned her while she watched, and left her penniless (so Oliver thinks). Roy loved Thea but tried to kill her. It's a pretty self-centred idea, but that's Oliver. So for Oliver, who shut himself off from human contact emotionally in order to survive those five years and "honor his father" by being a vigilante in Starling City, I think the question will be whether he can let himself open up to a normal life again, either with an SO or a family. Hopefully Diggle will be there to hold his hand (metaphorically) while he figures it out. I think he's fond of Sara, maybe even loves her as a friend, but I don't think he was in love with her. In terms of the scene where he learns the baby died, now that I've seen the con footage, I think it was significant for SA because of the emotions and possibilities that it brought up in the character of Oliver more than it being about the baby. Based on Gene Wesley Roddenberry. It think Wesley was the original Mary Sue character on TV.

A fear that I have is that Andrew Kreisburg is too married to his vision of Oliver Queen/Dinah Laurel Lance that he wrote when he was writing the GA/BC comics. It's very hard to change something that you've created, even when it doesn't seem to be working. You just keep trying harder to make it into your original vision.. Having someone new on board may help the show move beyond that vision, provided she really is there for the creative aspect and not the paper-pushing..

quarks, thank you for your reply in the face of the software hating you. That's damning with faint praise, but you're right, many of us were surprised because she behaved like a reasonable human being, however not in her lack of interest in what happened to Sara. I've been trying to think of another show where the producers acknowledged that a character that was supposed to be beloved wasn't, but I'm failing to right now. Another surprise was that Sara wasn't killed off at the end of the season because many people were putting money on that. I wonder if the reason was that if Sara were killed off so that Laurel could become the Black Canary, the bitterness would be so great that Laurel would never recover. If Laurel has to be killed off at the end of season 3 to delay Oliver/Felicity for another season, I will try to bear up as best I can.

Yes, the Executive Producer is a title given to someone who has power, or it can be honorific such as actors negotiating their contracts to give them producer status (although now that I've looked further the only one I can find is Hugh Laurie who got EP credit for the last 3 seasons of House) . Doesn't mean much in term of the direction a show takes. That's the show-runners' call, who are also EPs but not the only EPs. Berlanti seems to be the primary show-runner for his productions, with Kreisburg and Guggenheim under him for Arrow and The Flash. They've said that Berlanti goes over ideas with them and then they put them into action. I don't know if Sarah Schechter will also have creative input or if she will be management/organization to free up Berlanti for more projects.

I thought that everyone got 3 year contracts except for Stephen Amell who got six. That makes sense, you'd want to lock in the star of the show.

I'm pretty sure Diggle knows now. (Check out the two 'Diggle Ships Olicity' vids.) In the island scene, after Oliver says he's going to get his family's company back, Felicity and Diggle look at each other and then Diggle says he's going to give them a moment and walks ahead. That suggests to me that Felicity asked to be able to speak to Oliver privately; Diggle should have a pretty good idea of what's going on. But if anyone is going to tell Oliver that his "the life I lead" rationalization is crap, it's going to have to be Diggle because Sara is gone, Roy is too young, and Quentin doesn't want to know. Diggle, who is going to be balancing baby, SO and vigilante, and has always been someone who calls people on their crap, especially Oliver.

Next season's theme seems to be Father/Child, with Diggle's baby, Oliver secret child, Malcolm corrupting Thea and Felicity's daddy backstory. Yeah, I bet Diggle is going to have a kid so that he can mentor Oliver on being a good father. I still don't understand why they have to address Oliver's statement to Felicity early in the season though. There is plenty of humanity-searching available for him -- Thea, how to mentor Roy, should he get the company back? meeting his own kid -- before he gets to whether he should be having a relationship.

Of course Walsh is not dead. He's with Zoe, behind the scenes on Suits and running things. I wasn't a fan of Inara so much, but I did like Nathan Fillion. I loved SG1 and liked Atlantis (David Nykl, it's time to show up again on Arrow) but I couldn't get into Universe. Nothing seemed to make much sense. I was glad to see Ming Na get something beyond ER and her character was better than Deb Chen but finally on S.H.I.E.L.D., she's wonderful. That's what 50 looks like (we wish).

So if they can't find a way to incorporate her into the series by Christmas, the last third of season 3 will be How To Write Laurel Off? Promise?

A great idea for a thread. Here is Diggle Ships Olicity II. David Ramsey's expression are hilarious. The Top 10 Scenes of season 2 Oliver and Felicity. I would have added the island scene in the finale as well, but looking at it, it struck me that there are a lot of significant Oliver/Felicity moments in season 2, even if Laurel is still his OTP.

They also seemed puzzled by why that should be. Then Kreisburg adding that the way Laurel handles knowing who the Arrow is will make us love her and make those who loved her before love her even more seems like they have a different interpretation of how and why the audience reacts to Laurel the way it does. Implying that Laurel knowing the Arrow's identity will be a game-changer and she's on Team Arrow now gives the character a lot of power. I can't think of a single good scenario how why having her in the Arrow cave would make the team any better or more effective. In a law office, yes, but not in the cave. I think they are aware that there is a problem but they're not sure exactly what it is, much less how to fix it.

Berlanti is the Ideas Guy. His production company oversees a number of shows. At the moment, in addition to Arrow and The Flash, there is Pan, The Mysteries of Laura and Green Lantern II. He checks in with Guggenheim and Kreisburg who are responsible for the day-to-day running of the show and writing the episodes that Berlanti has ideas for. I don't see why they would have to tackle his speech to Felicity early on because that could wait till the Digglet gets born but okay, Mr, Amell, if that's what you want. It was Stephen Amell's idea to have Oliver flanked by Roy and Sara in the tunnel fight scene so here's hoping his way of introducing Oliver's son is as good.

Long hair over corpses or cadavers, or over chemical tests pulls me out of a scene. So do ridiculously high heels that impede walking and hurt after half an hour. One thing I always appreciated about Sara was that she wore shoes she could actually fight in.

But there are times when Felicity is going to be needed in the field, for example as bait for the Dollmaker, counting cards at the casino, hacking into a computer on the spot (e.g. Merlyn's) or working on something that requires being there. She has to be able to protect herself, and being able to protect someone else would be a bonus. That's a very good point. In a sense it parallels the physical fear that Felicity often shows, fear of heights, skydiving and landmines, of being bait for psychopaths like the Dollmaker or Slade, even of having someone angry at her. Of fear of abandonment by the people she now looks on as family, Oliver and Diggle. So when she deliberately puts herself in a situation where she could get hurt either physically, emotionally or financially because she feels that it is the right thing to do, it just makes me like the character more. Maybe that's one of the reasons Felicity is a popular character, because she doesn't have it all but she's willing to risk what she has to do the right thing. I think Oliver is highly skilled at compartmentalizing, not one of the best traits but it does cut down on the amount of time spent thinking. Sara trains in workout clothes -- Felicity sits at a computer. He told Diggle that they could protect Felicity in The Odyssey and in the next episode she's wearing the Dodger's explosive collar and terrified her head is going to get blown off and shortly afterwards she's in a criminal's casino. But did Oliver think that maybe she needs to be able to protect herself? Noooo, that was all on Diggle and Sara.

I agree she's never known him but pretty much consistently she's felt she knew him completely, better than anyone else. It just wavered between thinking he was a douche and thinking he was good. In Damaged (1x05) Oliver specifically asked for her as his lawyer because she believed so strongly that he was worthless and couldn't possibly be a hero like the Hood. It's like her feelings about the Hood, first he was a hero, then he was a killer, then he was a hero again, then he was responsible for Tommy's death. She's black or white, a striking contrast to Diggle and Felicity who will tell Oliver when he's wrong but are always on his side, even when they're mad at him. In that case, maybe we should hope WB keeps sending down the "notes" on the episodes. (The note send down for 1x03 Lone Gunmen said something like 'more fight scenes and more of that blonde IT girl'.) I'm still bitter about how the jacket scene treated Sara and all the smiles because it negated what had gone before. At least Quentin and Oliver both knew what it was costing her. At first I thought they were ignoring Heir to the Demon and Sara's desperation to get out of the LoA but they weren't. She still hated the idea of going back but she was willing to do the unthinkable to save her father and sister. At least Quentin was out there fighting the mirakuru army to justify her sacrifice.

There is one scene in that video that struck me. Oliver and Diggle are practice fighting each other on the mat and in the background Felicity has her back to them, typing on her computer keyboard. I love all the " I need you"/"I have your back" stuff but that one scene encapsulated Team Arrow for me.

Did she promote Arrow? If not, I'd say 'yes' as a public appearance, and 'no' to promoting the show.

I think that opening scene would have killed any desire to have Laurel and Oliver get together, if I had had any left by that time. He was suffering and she was only interested in hammering him that she's such a better person than he is. For her, it's always All About Laurel and how she sees herself compared to other people, never how the other person actually is.

Helena could do it very quickly with the small crossbow Oliver gave her. I don't see why Felicity shouldn't be able to do the same.

I loved Moira's moneyed arrogance. She cared about her children but she was just so into her "let them eat cake" world. And Walter coolly calling an attorney while everyone else is freaking out -- I would so want him on my side in a fight. I really liked the development of the characters of Oliver and Diggle in this episode. Oliver thought that Diggle would love to join him and learned differently; Diggle thought that was Oliver was doing was contemptible and learned differently. It was ironic that it was Carly trying to keep Diggle safe that pushed him to join up with Oliver. Diggle joining Oliver to protect his soul was something I missed the first time around, but really appreciate now as coming from Diggle's experience as a soldier. I also like Felicity's storyline being with Walter this episode, and the way she stood up for herself, again. Since the character was originally for just one episode, I wonder if they wrote her into this one after seeing her in Lone Gunman. What I hated was the bird storyline. I mute the TV every time the bird comes on. I don't see why Yao Fe had to turn Oliver into a cold-blooded killer to survive. Also, yeah, it would have helped get your point across if you had made it in English. Laurel moved back and forth more than the ball in a tennis match. She went from worrying about Oliver before the episode opened (how would she have known he was missing unless she deliberated called? wasn't she mad at him at the end of the last episode?) to being unbearably superior ("I care about other people. You should try it some time.") to being caring about Peter Declan, to crushing on The Hood, to running into the middle of a prison riot to agreeing with her father that the Hood's a killer I bet that lasted all of 10 seconds. I couldn't believe that anyone who has gone through law school and articling could be that naive. Yes, sometimes the law is just but most of the time it's whatever the judge interprets it to be. Good point. She did threaten Brodeur but gave up on Declan.

Yeah, the year of the grad degree is usually not cited because it takes everyone different lengths to finish. You identify with your year of entry into the program, not of graduation. There are researchships and scholarships for undergraduate and graduate students, especially at a place like MIT where the alumni can afford to be generous with giving back so I don't think money would be a barrier to her getting her MSc. But if she had it, why would she be working at QC in the IT department? With an MSc, she could be teaching at a college or working for a think tank. Here are the program requirements. I think it would take her the full four years to do her Bachelor's, especially if she were working part time too. There is a special stream where they can do their Bachelor's and Master's in 5 or 5 1/2 years. http://www.eecs.mit.edu/academics-admissions/undergraduate-programs/course-6-3-computer-science-and-engineering

The difference is that in episode 10, she thought that Oliver was a rich do-nothing playboy. In episode 21, she knew he was a hero. She's always all Team Oliver! when she thinks he's a good guy, and always acting superior to him when she doesn't. And this is a character we are supposed to be rooting for.

Maybe the long hair is also about maintaining the image of femininity while being all physical. She can kick his ass and she's a trained assassin, but she's still a real girl. I thought of this thread last night while I was listening to a PRI report on the new Lego female scientist figures. Now that they're out, there are complaints that the figures are too stocky, and that their hair is in a bun. The scientist being interviewed in the radio retorted that she's a chemist, long hair would interfere with her work so she has to tie it up and then when she's off work, she can let it down and be sexy. If you want to see what the figures look like: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2014/06/04/lego-to-produce-female-scientist-minifigure-set/ Sexier, earlier females legos http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Olivia-s-Invention-Workshop-3933 http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Heartlake-Vet-3188 (I'm on a laptop and the link feature doesn't work properly.) It is kind of sad that she loses that, although not entirely because she's still tell Malcolm he's a murdering psychopath to his face. But poor kid got a lot thrown at her in the second half of the season -- Roy broke up with her and later tried to choke her; Slade kidnapped her, held her for a day and then told her that Malcolm was her real father; she saw her mother murdered in front of her and found out that everyone she cared about, her mother, her father, her brother and her boyfried, had all lied to her. Even Walter because he knew who her real father was. It's reasonable that she would see herself as easily pushed around after that. It is in this show that you have to be broken down before you can be made stronger ... it happened to Oliver, to Sara, to Slade, to Diggle, to Quentin, and to Laurel with her addiction arc. So presumably Thea is going to get stronger after this.

I don't know how Arrow works but it may be similar to how House did. They blocked off each season into 3 sections. The first planning meeting was at the end of May where they plotted out the arcs for the first third of the season and handed out individual episodes to the writers (because it takes a month or so to write a script and then they have to prep it before they start shooting). The second on was in August, and the third in December. I agree with ArrowLimbo that they probably won't make Laurel BC right off the bat, just start with setting her up in the role. By the December meeting, they should have aired 8 or 9 episodes and have a good idea of how she is working out in terms of the show and audience reaction. That gives them the last third of the season to either solidify the character, find her something else to do, or write her off.