statsgirl

I think there is a difference between the main network and cable shows. In Canada, Farscape came on the kids channel (YTV) for its first season, and then disappeared from Canadian TV for the next 3 years. (I was asking US friends to tape the show for me and send me the tapes.) It eventually came back to the sci fi channel, as did Battlestar Galactica and Orphan Black. Buffy and Firefly are the only two shows on your list that are action shows with female characters in equal numbers to the men, and they're both from Josh Whedon. Sleepy Hollow came after Arrow. E.R. and Veep are not action/adventure shows, which is where the main complaint is because there seems to be a perception that women aren't interested in action shows so it's not important to have well-written women in them (and even ER had a 5:2 ratio men to women for the main cast). I haven't seen Veep because it's on a cable channel I have to pay extra for. So I still think writing good female characters in equal numbers to the men is a problem on network action/adventure shows. As others have pointed out, even with all the discrimination against African-Americans, a black man still becomes president before a white woman does. And as the article says, the industry will make a superhero movie about a raccoon before it will make one about a woman.

Even if AK and MG are biding their time, I think the executives at CW and WB might have something to say about it. As Alan Sepinwall wrote, the show changed fundamentally when they inserted Felicity into it. The primary force in the show became Team Arrow rather than various characters plus Oliver/Diggle. Television is a business, and I really believe that if the show hadn't been Team Arrow centered, it wouldn't have been picked up for a second season. Even with the show almost certain for a s4 pick-up (because then it could be syndicated), I doubt Laurel will ever be as popular as Felicity is and it's stupid to kill the golden goose. Network execs are more likely to kill a show but refusing to change or develop it than by messing with what is working. I'm leaning toward it being #2 right now, that they are trading off making Laurel the BC in exchange for O/F as the main love interest, and really hoping it's #3. But if it is, we won't see even a hint of Sara until Laurel is established as the Black Canary. However, I don't trust AK and MG one bit. Logically, they should keep Felicity but that's no certainty. They may kill her for maximum Oliver angst next season (in which case I hope EBR goes on to a major show). My other bit of hope is that David Ramsey has been pushing the Diggle/Lyla and Oliver/Felicity parallels this season. True, he's only an actor and doesn't know beyond the next bit of time but it seems daft to have O/F be the hallmark relationship for Oliver if they're planning to put him with Laurel in the end?

Excellent argument. (And a Famous Five reference!) This has been bugging me for years. It seems like on action/adventure shows, it's almost always a 3:1 ratio, with the female character usually in a minor role (Hawaii 50). 140 years ago, it was felt that women were only interested in romances of being swept away by a sheikh, and not at all in adventures (anything by Jules Verne,, Arthur Conan Doyle, Robert Louis Stevenson or anyone else writing at that time). It's sad to see things haven't changed much. To be fair to Arrow, the show does have a number of women characters and with one exception, they're all strong in their own ways. Even Dinah rebuilt her life after her husband lost himself in a bottle and her remaining daughter had left home. Before Arrow, Bones and Castle were the only two shows I could think of that came near parity in male/female roles and strengths. What I fear for Felicity is what I fear for Diggle -- as the only two main characters who aren't now and probably won't be superheroes, I'm afraid they will be considered lesser beings because they're just smart, loyal, grounded and complex characters.

Did Duncan have a fondness for single malt? My daughter named the cat Vala because she was a rescue and whatever she grabbed, she held on to tight. She (daughter, not cat) saw Claudia Black at a convention and told her the story and Black was very gracious about having a cat named after her. And also very funny when talking about her career at a session.

SmallScreenDiva, if you look at the Forever section of the forums and the comments about the first episode of the show, you'll notice that there are quite a lot of us. But it was a Fox show. ABC might have given it more of a chance. I thought New Amsertdam was the better show but I do like Ioan Gruffud and Judd Hirsh, and the female lead is much better than the Alexis character on NA. I'm just hesitant to get invested in Forever because of that cancellation thing. I think I remember seeing something like that. Fans can be weird.

I like Forever, but I loved New Amsterdam and they snatched it from me after 8 episodes just as I was really getting into it. Much the same premise, a man from the 1600s with immortality he's trying to get rid of (played by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau), his son played by an older actor, lots of chemistry with his partner and little with his designated love interest. He's a detective and his current cases flash him to happenings in the past that he lived through. I grew up with dogs but my current circumstances prevent me from having one although I love petting them at the dog park. Three cats currently alternate sleeping on my bed. Vala (from Stargate SG1) will only tolerate one other cat on the bed at any time.

Does that mean someone will be doing some genetic engineering on her? In that case, I say Go for it!

For me, the big question is whether they will ever allow that to actually happen, or if it will be 'wash, rinse, repeat' through the course of the show. (If anyone has watched Saving Hope, that show had a great relationship in season 1, then completely blew it apart in the next two seasons till I'm at the point where I'm so disgusted by the way that was handled, only two of the minor characters interest me any more.)

I agree, they wrote the date, that blew up even before they ordered, to settle the question of whether Oliver loved Felicity or Laurel, which had been left dangling at the end of s2, without actually having to put them together into a relationship for even a nanosecond. Kind of cowardly, I think. Oliver and Felicity could at least have had a bit of time being happy together, especially as we didn't see them develop their flirtiness over the five month hiatus. i love the metaphor of the Linus blanket but I think this is the real thing. Oliver may say that he wants to protect Felicity, he may say he can't be Oliver Queen and effectively be the Arrow, but what they're showing us it that while he's comfortable now as The Arrow, he's afraid to be Oliver. All the things he tells Felicity and Diggle are just excuses. Well, if you're going to ask Diggle,

I agree with most of your post, it's frustrating and bitterness-inducing. What I disagree with is that the point of killing Sara is to allow Laurel to become relevant to the show. I think the point of killing Sara is to let Laurel ascend to being the Black Canary without any other possible alternative. (While I'd prefer Sin or even Thea as the BC, I don't think that's going to happen.) If they had wanted to make Laurel relevant and part of the show, they could easily have done it with her as a lawyer, 'cooking' what Oliver and Team Arrow catch. She could have brought them cases that she can't deal with legally as a ADA, she could have provided information they would have difficulty getting otherwise, she could have been down in the lair advising them about the law and ways that she could get the guys if they got 'X' information instead of just generally arrowing them or blowing them up. I'm sure other people here could come up with other ways to integrate Laurel into the 'A' plot without killing Sara. So looking at what they are doing on the show, it seems like they want Laurel to be the Black Canary without being integrated into the show. (I'm fine on that last part, I don't want her calling Felicity at all hours to do jobs for her.) I don't know why, if it's a good character played by a capable actress, why not have her integrated, and if it's now, why have her on the show at all much less taking up this much time? Especially when there are other characters I'd rather see. And since they seem unable to integrate Laurel into the show generally, she remains at best a counterweight. Who are they trying to appease?

It really is time to get over that this season. There are only so many times they can drink from the same stream. At the end of Deathstroke, Oliver told Diggle and Felicity that he was so focusse on the harm that Slade could do, he didn't realize that he himself could do even more harm. Time to realize that's what he did in The Calm too.

They may not even then. They've known for a least a year that the Laurel character isn't popular and all they do is write her more. (On House, ratings started dropping when the original group of fellows was pushed aside for newbies and they never brought the originals back, not even as ratings continue to fall for the next 4 seasons.) The scripts for the next set of episodes (10 - 16) are already written or in the process of writing. If there is any change, it won't be until episode 17 that we see a change.

He is a control freak (which is both good and bad, connecting with the audience is good, freak-outs are bad). And he's probably pretty tired by now filming those snowy mountain scenes shirtless. Never a good time to lash out when you're tired and feel things are getting out of control. It's kind of like being pre-mentrual. I hope he doesn't leave twitter permanently because I refuse to get a FB account. I've seen too many friends get depressed gby following exes who dumped them or comparing themselves to others. (A study looked at people on FB and found that those with only a few FB friends tend to be more depressed, and those who have a lot aren't because of who them compare themselves to.)

I've seen enough people lie about abuse, or believe that it happened when it didn't, that I don't take it all on trust now. Laurel's been working in the field at least three years now (one at CNRI, two in the DA's office) that she should know that she needs to check statements out first. But the point of this wasn't that she was defending a battered woman but that she found someone to take a baseball bat to. But my question is, since AA is Anonymous, how did she find out who the woman was and thereby the name of her boyfriend? Did she ask her the name of her boyfriend during the coffe time? Follow her home? Why did she even nee Felicity to look up the guy? (I presume she told Quentin later so he could see if there were any outstanding warrants on the guy and later picked up and charged.) Yeah, that was probably the "great scene" because they could finally do a funny with Laurel and Felicity. Isn't it great how Laurel can be part of the main stories now that she knows Oliver's secret? <eyeroll>

I think Laurel is telling Oliver to do whatever it takes to get Sara's killer, whoever Laurel thinks it is at this time. It's too soon for Oliver and Malcolm to team up yet, there's a lot more conflict that could be mined from them. On the other hand, given the way this show burns through storylines.... EBR said in an interview that Felicity's mother shows up at a really bad time. If Oliver has just told her that Malcom Merlyn is alive and back in town, and Ra's al Ghul has pinged them on his radar, that would explain it.

From the Corto Maltese thread Wasn't there a promo picture with Quentin, Nyssa and Laurel? How are they going to explain Nyssa being in Starling City but not Sara?

I'm telling myself it's just a guy thing, that he doesn't want to get all into messy relationships. Quentin is Laurel's father and she made a decision and Oliver has enough on his plate without fighting her on that. It's interesting though that Corto Maltese seemed to be all about Laurel's bad decision-making, going after the guy when she didn't know if the girlfriend was a liar or not, going after him physically with a bat when she couldn't defend herself and if she got caught her career would be over again, and then having Quentin show her that it's much more simply and elegantly done by using his other misdeeds to have him arrested. I wonder if they will show that this was the wrong thing for her to do too, or just hand wave it away as her love for her father.

I call it the Laurel Effect. She seems to bring out his douchiness every time.

At this point, I'm just happy they're having a conversation. <sad face>

No, there was no explanation on screen as to why Quentin didn't show up. If Oliver asked, we didn't see the answer. Did they keep Quentin out of the loop so that Oliver and Laurel could share scenes comforting each other? They already had that during "Sara".

Oh Nyssa, you are so badass and focused. And Malcolm is taunting Oliver again. He really gets off on that. ------------------------------ Laurel to Oliver in The Magician: You have to do whatever it takes. Felicity to Oliver in Deathstroke: Do whatever it takes. End this once and for all

It's making less and less sense to me that they didn't tell Quentin because with Nyssa's arrival, he's probably going to find out now anyway. So for a mere two episodes, they threw all that storyline and investigating away.

Ah, I sense a possible future story arc.....

Not if her intent was to set the cat among the canaries, so to speak. Maybe she wanted Oliver to think it was Ra's or the LoA and start some trouble between them? If her weapon of choice is a gun, then she wouldn't want to use that because it could point to her. A crossbow is fairly easy to use; Helena mastered it in a couple of weeks. It's like a soap opera -- "If only she had talked to Jason and asked where he was that night, she wouldn't have divorced him and married Matt."

Oliver assumed it was Sara. But why would Sara tell other people to get off the roof? Wouldn't she be wearing her mask so they wouldn't know who she was? Doesn't she had Laurel's cellphone number to say 'Hey, Laurel, there are some kids up here. Can we meet in the stairwell instead?" I thought it was teasing that it was another woman entirely. Does Amanda Waller do her own dirty work?