statsgirl

I sometimes disagree with Ken Tucker's assessment of what's necessary for a show (he would have preferred to have Wilson as the only supporting character on House) but I do partly agree with this: While the flashbacks are useful in telling us the story, there are far too many of them and not enough time on some of the supporting characters.

I think there will be a time jump, because the show is sooooo proud of doing it all the time (still bitter at losing the flirting over the summer break), and we'll get flashbacks to it in ep 14. Post-Christmas break Olicity scenes not till he comes back, possibly in 3x13 if they can squeeze it in between Canaries. In 3x12 I'm only expecting Oliver to apprear in the last few seconds. Cut to reaction shot. The promo makes it sound like he's doing all this for Thea because she's his family. (Hey, what about your Team Arrow family?) They better give me something more than a kiss on the forehead between Oliver and Felicity because that doesn't say '9' to me -- more like 2 1/2.

I liked how Caitlin and Cisco were playing hooky from Wells. There is only one thing I wish they had added to the episode, that while Barry was telling Oliver how wrong he was, he would have said something about Felicity.

He was born in 1985 like Tommy and Laurel. Sara was born 2 years later.

That was fun. I could use more of that. Generally it was great fun although I did look away at the Hong Kong scenes. There were so many little things I liked, like Cisco trying to take Barry and Oliver's picture with his phone and Caitlin stopping him, the four of them hanging out. I think this was Cisco's best episode to date, between geeking out and trying to do the salmon ladder, and his horror at having to defuse the bombs. Nice plot, by the way, requiring all six members of the teams. I was really hoping that Felicity and Caitlin would take out Boomerang but I guess the guys had to do it. At least they saved Lyla (although since when does adrenaline substitute for lidocaine?). I thought Barry was infused by the soul of Sara when he talked about Oliver still having light in him, and that Oliver was going to say that when Felicity walked in. I wonder if EBR ever gets tired of wearing clothes that look so uncomfortable. Caitlin's aren't as trendy but they look like they would feel better. There was nothing wrong with Laurel's line "I heard the Arrow was in Central City" in terms of the writing but KC's reading of it made it sound like she was chastising Oliver for not getting her permission first. I think the show would have been better if writers like AK and Ben Sokolowski had stayed on Arrow instead of working for The Flash.

I'm hoping that it's because she's volunteering to help out while Oliver is gone (I can't believe I just wrote that) because the alternative, that she's suiting up to fool her parents, is just so much worse. She's already in enough black books for not telling her father yet, would Guggenheim really think we would admire her for continuing to lie to them?

If Laurel fails and the show makes Nyssa the Black Canary, I would really try not to criticize it again.

Looking at the Oliver pictures, with all the scars and tattoos, no wonder SA asked for fewer shirtless scenes. It must take hours to put all those on. Those pictures of shirtless Oliver and Ra's, there's no way I'd be betting on Ra's winning that. I did love Cisco trying to take a photo of the Arrow and the Flash, and Caitlin stopping him. Whoever thought of that (writer? director? actors?), well done. Black Friday sales. You want to be prepared for anything, just in case. Agreed it's awful writing, but hasn't the whole Sara murder story been awful writing? There's a monthly event in my city that mocks bad fanfic writing for sci fi and superhero shoes, and I'm willing to submit that storyline. At this point I don't trust Guggenheim at all to make them mature as opposed to stupid for the sake of angst but maybe he'll surprise me. He'll have to give me something to hold on to over the Extended Hiatus (thanks, writersblock) which actually ends up being 9 weeks between 3x09 (Dec 9) and 3x14 (Feb 18).

I can see a role for Roy in terms of a third person out in the field. Diggle's got the brains but Roy can still be useful. However, I can't see a role for Laurel Canary, especially since she still can't fight. She's be most useful to the team working as, oh, maybe a lawyer? I don't think either of them would have added anything to the FlashvsArrow episode though.

Guggenheim has screwed up this season so much, I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver, knowing he "can't" have the girl he wants, sleeps with the girl he's with, maybe when he's off somewhere outside of Starling City, maybe if he meets Barbara Gordon. Because the show is that messed up this year.

Yes to all of that. The Team Arrow and Oliver/Felicity scenes in Flash vs Arrow were so good, and they just reminded me even more how much we've lost on Arrow with the stupid plot lines of this season. You can still do it guys, write a great show, if only you'd stop trying to deliberately screw things up for yourselves.

If that happens, I'll be one foot out the door, between the Laurel quartet and spoiling the lovely scenes Oliver and Felicity once had. And just the general depressingness of this season. There is only so much bad stuff they can throw me before I say 'screw it, it's not worth sticking around'. Seeing the Team Arrow scenes on FlashvsArrow just reminded me of how much I've lost on Arrow this season.

I wonder if Iris being all over Oliver was what prompted Barry later taunting him about being able to get all the girls and never having felt jealous of anyone before.

NCIS wasted her too. Moira was a dream to act compared to Hollis Mann. I hope she gets a show worthy of her some day.

I think Oliver and Felicity could be more in sync in this episodes because it wasn't about Oliver's relationship with her. That's why I hate the stupid will they/won't they trope writing, it ruins both the characters we've come to love and their interactions with each other. I could do a lot more of this kind of stuff from Oliver and Felicity, and the flirting from the beginning of The Calm before it all blew up.

She could take on other projects and they could schedule her Arrow appearances around them, as they do with Colin Salmon. I doubt it's going to happen though unless something drastic happens behind the scenes.

Not that I saw. One minute they're "we're here about this mysterious boomerang, and the next it's "we caught your guy, bye now!" I'm all for bras that aren't polyester, but I think the answer to that is that the fire started with the friction between the air molecules and Felicity's shirt. The bra, not in contact with speeding air molecules, would have been safe. (And now I'm thinking about the CGI of that scene.) Speaking of fires, I wonder what's going to happen when Ronnie shows up. Maybe Caitlin better starting thinking fireproof clothes of her own.

I hope you're right and it's not about Oliver feeling he doesn't get the girl (and she should go to Ray) because that's just going to be the cherry on the top of a very depressing half-season. But I'm not getting my hopes up because it's looking more and more like that's exactly what's going to happen. Because past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour? You know what I really hate? That this could have been so good, an interesting relationship or at least a really good scene between Oliver and Felicity that made your heart swell and feel glad, and go off into the winter break rooting for those crazy kids to when they see each other again. Instead, I'm dreading it more than the Laurel episodes because Laurel I can skip but I'll watch ep 3x09 and I'll get my heart broken.

I really liked this episodes. The lightness of The Flash with the gravitas of Arrow. I hope they do more cross-overs, it improves both shows. I liked that both Joe and Wells didn't trust Oliver. That's realistic. I really liked Barry's character development here. Something for those interested in character, something for those interested in the Flash vs Arrow fight scenes. I wanted more of Diggle's reactions to the Flash. They were funny and David Ramsey doesn't get to do nearly enough of that stuff on Arrow.. I thought Felicity telling Cisco and Caitlin that she and Barry were not an thing, and Barry going 'okay already' was funny. We need more Felicity/Caitlin. There's lots of guy bonding on both shows but Iris and Caitlin don't know each other and Felicity is on a whole other show. I like Caitlin telling Barry to stop trying to break up Iris and Eddie. Poor Barry, his evil self succeeded in distancing Iris from him. And poor Caitlin, getting closer to Barry (as a friend) and there's her fiance, just burning up close by. Felicity re-framing Oliver's good-bye speech... "What Oliver meant to say is that he enjoyed working with you..." was the old Oliver and Felicity back again, finally.. Is that the 'they're so married' scene people were talking about? I thought they spent to much time on the baby mama thing because I don't care. I would have preferred to see how they caught Bivolo. Trust Oliver to end the show on a depressing note. "Guys like us don't get the girl." Way to bring me down again, Ollie.

SA said that we would get an insight into how Oliver feels about Felicity, and then we'd get more of that in the winter finale? So it looks like Oliver thinks guys like him and Barry don't get the girl and it's looking more and more that the big scene between Oliver and Felicity is him telling her they can never be together because reasons, so she should go and find happiness with Ray Palmer. Yeah, that's really going to make me want to tune back in in January. I am so friggin' sick of Oliver and this whole show being so damn depressing. Wow, that would have been so much better on a whole number of fronts.

I think we need all the Team Arrow support we can get, just to remind the EPs that that's what many of us tune in for, so don't shelve them for your shiny new toys.

Lisin, is there a spoilers thread at The Flash forum for the spoilers for the TV show? I know there is a comics spoiler thread but where do we talk about spoilers for the TV show? I'm excited for the crossover, but I think no one is as excited as MG and AK are. I am so, so glad they are crossing over the whole teams and not just the characters of Arrow and Flash. Bring on the humor! Yes, it's a diminutive intended to cut the other down when used towards an adult, especially someone who is older or has greater stature, like calling someone Jimmy when he's known as James. Barry was cutting down Oliver by calling him Ollie. Ditto. (And I hate Fritz Perls as a therapist so very much.) I am expecting very big things from that scene to take me through to mid-February, which means I'll probably end up disappointed. I think Stephan Amells math-challenged makes him more real It's the crack that lets the light shine in. And speaking of the F&ck Cancer shirts, I am so, so happy that they are grey and not pink. I am sick to death of pink Cancer-support stuff. (Except for my tape measure; no guy is going to 'take' a hot pink tape measure.)

Did anyone watch Sleepy Hollow tonight? I've just been reading the episode thread, and there is a lot of hate for Katrina stealing the show from better liked characters, attributing it to the producers love for the character. (And I agree, a character I don't like and who gets way too much screentime.) Felt a lot like reading about Laurel.

But wasn't that because he couldn't pronounce her real name? Many immigrants ended up with bastardized names because their real ones couldn't be pronounced. That's a different matter than deliberately giving someone a nickname like Cisco does.

I don't think they're actively keeping Laurel away from the interesting storylines so much as realizing that what she has done in them hasn't worked. The CNRI ones were a wash, going back to collect the files during the earthquake got her more hated than appreciated, she was useless with the Dollmaker (could she have done Felicity's role? I don't know) and Brother Blood was kind of a mess, although not as much a mess as Isabel was. To compensate, I think they tried to give her her own arcs (e.g. addiction, Birds of Prey) but that failed too. Speaking of cutting off Laurel at the knees, I was wondering, why boxing? I know it's comics! because Ted Grant is a boxer (do I have that right?) but ever since Bruce Lee made Kato a martial arts artist in the old Green Hornet show, every super fighter has to have some kind of marital arts training because if all you have is boxing, you're going to get your ass handed to you. So it's three episodes/weeks that Laurel has been working on boxing with Ted Grant, and the minute he tries a different move, she's flat on her back. How is she going to get the fighting moves she needs to even start as the Black Canary in time? Right now, she'd be a huge liability on Team Arrow. Even Felicity beating up Cooper does better.