Empress Josephine

I don't mind Marian but she is just sorta there/bland. I guess I am neutral on her as a protagonist. I don't want her to be with Larry though. I think he could do better. Or maybe I just feel they would be so predictable and boring. I don't see any chemistry. I like that Larry is trying in the ways that he can to intercede on behalf of his sister. I hope to see more of their brother and sister relationship. I also like that Miss Astor is also looking out for her. I think with more people in her corner, Gladys will continue to be assertive and stand her ground with her mother. Very happy to see Peggy get success with her article. I think Mr. Fortune is very handsome so I hope he gets more scenes. I am tried of Mrs. Armstrong and I was happy when Agnes called her out for trying to make trouble.

Mrs. Russell pisses me off sometimes. I don't like what she and Mr. Russell did to that young man Archie. Poor Gladys. When Mrs. Russell acts like such a snob like in this episode, I don't feel bad that the old money crowd is mean to her or judges her when she turns around and does the exact same thing. I understand she wants what is best for her daughter but damn. George is so coldhearted too.

Yeah definitely. I guess that part is more rhetorical as we know why. It is about the status, power, and prestige of the old money families.

Of course. Anything to feel superior and gate keep valued resources (that's what classism is about after all, protecting the intra-groups access to valued resources which improve the quality of ones life). People still behave like this and do things like this. I think with the Russells it gets to the point where you wonder why it is even worth it to beg/scheme for acceptance? Why are these the sorts of people who should matter? They have enough money to make new rules on there terms and probably could if they stuck with their new monied friends. But Mrs. Russell became the snob, ditching those friends and acting like they do not matter. All this behaviour does is inflate the heads of the old monied people and make them feel they are justified in there supposed superiority when you have people falling all over themselves desperate for crumbs/to be apart of the club.

I remember reading about this in Edie Sedgwicks biography some years ago. It was talking about how her parents were like old money royalty from some part of New York State and that her father/grandfather talked with that sort of accent that had been cultivated at their boarding schools.

What pisses me off about it too was he was acting all sanctimonious with Monica (when she was emotional and upset) for yelling at Betty. On his high horse saying, "Betty didn't come out the Jim Crow South to deal with your nonsense." Or something to that effect. And yet here he is doing that shit to her. He is disgusting on every level and I feel really angry for the shit he put Paula Jones through. He is a piece of garbage.

First time posting in this forum section. But I think the last few moments saved the episode. I must admit, Jeanette had me fooled and I feel really dumb for falling for her performance. I knew she had a personality disorder and is creepy regardless because that much is obvious but I did not think she was actually guilty of what Kate said. As for why she is back with Jamie, I think that is also obvious. She is fixated on possessing him as though having him reaffirms something about her and the way she wants to be perceived by others. I think she is only cares about the idea of him much in the same way that she only wanted to be Kate because it makes her feel 'special'. People are just objects to her and I think the value of Jamie lies solely in the fact that he is Kate's ex. Or perhaps he was always the main target/obsession and Kate was only useful to study and copy but had to be removed. Jeanette probably wants to eventually marry him like her parents got married after being high school sweethearts. The way she was dressing in 'Old Kate Walsh cosplay' for the interview shows that she wants to be perceived as that 'Belle type' old Kate was raised to be. Jamie once wanted to marry that verison Kate and settle down with her. Jeanette wants to be that girl for him. She likes to switch on that vunerable 'I just want everyone to like me' act with him and all those demure smiles. I thought his punching her was one of the most brutal scenes in this show. But I came to the conclusion that Jeanette doesn't care. She wants him in her life no matter what and puts him on a pedestal because it feeds into her idealized self.

Shirley blasting the television and radio at the same time is the exact same thing my parents do. Then when someone calls they shout into the phone. Neither seems to think to think that turning the volume down would help them hear conversations better haha. So the thing with Shirley really cracked me up. I can't believe Abe is still entertaining this revolutionary magazine. But I can't help but laugh at these silly scenes. There plan for everything is to 'camp outside his door' and the landlord not fixing the toilet is fascist lmao.

The part where Abe invites the revolutionaries back to the family apartment really made me laugh. Especially when the maid Zelda is serving them food and Abe says it goes against the proletariat values and the frauds say it 'helps them better understand what they are fighting against'.

Thank you for clearing that up. They looked like twins on the show. I did a double take haha.

I did enjoy this season overall but I do not think it compares to Season one or two at all in terms of quality. It did seem to drag at times and it was jarring to see the actress who played Lady Churchill now back as the Duchess of Gloucester. My favourite episodes were the ones centred on the coal disaster and Princess Alice (poor lady had such a hard life but was so good). I also liked that young Philip from 2x09 showed up for a bit in episode four and loved seeing the cute photos of Matt Smith and Claire Foy in this last episode. It was a nice surprise. The big standout this season in terms of performance was the girl portraying Princess Anne. She has so much spunk and she looks a lot like a young Anne too. Can't wait to hear her say those famous words, "Not bloody likely!' It will be a laugh. Helena did good in her portrayal of Princess Margaret (I prefer Vanessa Kirby though) as well. In fact, the last scene Margaret and Elizabeth had this episode was rather touching. I got a little teary eyed. I also I loved seeing Lord Tywin as Mountbatten. The scene he had with Princess Alice was a favourite of mine. I also cried a bit during it haha. I guess I am just a blurry mess when it comes to sibling bonding. But overall this season really made me realize how much I miss Claire Foy and Matt Smith. I do like Olivia Colman and Tobias Menzies as actors but something about their portrayals in this (especially Menzies) fell flat for me. The moon dust episode was rather painful for me because I kept thinking about the performance Matt could have given with the same script. Maybe in season 4 they will find their footing or perhaps more accurately, I will get used to them as the new Elizabeth and Philip. But it was hard to adjust. I missed Alex Jennings as the Duke of Windsor as well. I am hoping Matt Smith and Claire Foy (if they have the time) can come back for flashbacks in the later seasons.

Some of the criticism of Charles sort of irks me. I see similar qualities in other family members but because it is Charles, it somehow seems to be a problem. I am gonna rant a bit so bear with me... Some posters are asking why the Queen gets the brunt of everyone's anger and resentment. Just sticking to the show, I think the answer is obvious and was answered in season one, when it was stated that everyone feels they can do the job better but for better or worse, the crown has landed on her shoulders. Another thing, people are going after Charles for not knowing the history of Wales. I agree he should have been better prepared and should know the condition of its people and their right to self determination. However, by all accounts the House of Windsor (as represented in this show) is not known for good education on many things and that includes its own historical domains. Philip has to educate Elizabeth about the various personalities of her own family when mentioning its individualistic kings vs. those who sacrifice themselves for the crown. She doesn't even know the character of her own grandfather as a ruler or those of his cousins. Elizabeth herself references in season one and two that she has very little education and does not know what to talk about with heads of states beyond frivolous things. That's why she is relived when Eisenhower cancels his visit. She also has someone come into to re-educate her on the constitution and the crowns role in it even though she was specifically tutored in this as a child. And then for people annoyed at Charles constant self pity and comparing his plight to Wales, the whole family does similar things. The only mistake Charles made is in who he confided in. In episode 5, Elizabeth gives herself quite a lot of self pity about her horrible Uncle who ensured she could not enjoy a life on the civil list without all the 'extra hard work'. If it wasn't for individualistic uncle, she could have spent her days just breeding, raising, and racing horses. She got a whole lot of sympathy looks from Lord Porchester. And she put her horse racing ahead of the country (leaving for a month and during the devaluing of the pound...that's some great priorities that is). Same with Margaret, constantly lamenting how she could do better as she has her husband Lord Snowden in her ear. And she called herself a 'vice Queen' like the responsibilities of a Queen much less a princess in the modern world is anywhere near those of President or Vice President. And Philip is a whole lot of misery, self pity and passive aggressiveness when he chose to marry Elizabeth. He constantly has a chip on his shoulder about his childhood and family too. At least he had a lot of friends to go act a fool (and allegedly cheat around together) with and vent. Lastly, Elizabeth and Philip are not the greatest parents. Perhaps their roles have a lot to do with it, but I think it is also just a matter of personality and choice. By all accounts, Elizabeth's father was very warm and loving. His childhood had his parents being similarly cold and distant (as it was expected at the time) but that did not stop him from being a rock to his own daughters. So what is Elizabeth's excuse? Again (for the purposes of the show) the answer was given in season two as to why she is a bit detached from Charles. He is simply the reminder of the person that will replace her one day, the living walking breathing embodiment of her own death. She even admits this season that she felt very little when he was born. I mean children pick up on the feelings of their parents, whether overt or covert. I'd feel some self pity too if one parent resented me because I will replace them one day and the other dislikes that I outrank them, even though I did not ask for either of those things. And to make things worse, father dislikes you because your 'soft' and 'the girl' and mother basically doesn't stand her ground when defending you to said father because of 'the crown' and father throwing a fit and threatening divorce as Philip did in 2x09. I thought this episode was good. I like the performance the actor gave. He conveyed how isolating it is at 'the top', especially without proper nurturing for the role when your parents secretly don't think you deserve to belong there. Well, they don't either but they lack that self awareness. Philip thinks he should be getting paid more for 'working so hard' after all.

Eddie is such a trash human being. He is whining about how he can't even call the baby his daughter, when two seconds earlier he didn't even care to be at the hospital. Honestly, he and Delilah belong together. That poor baby with parents like that... but yeah, he taints Katherine and she is well rid of him. But I am annoyed that the writers have Katherine leaving Theo.

I am still irritated by the fact that Charles passed over Diana and put Kelsey in charge. She is more than qualified and she has paid her dues, but I guess similar things happen in the real world all the time. Still, it is aggravating because Kelsey and Liza show up at her hang out spot and Kelsey does this speech about 'needing her'. That is a fair statement but Diana has been holding her own for so long. I wish she had. stuck to her guns Charles annoys me. I never really cared for him but I am having an even harder time liking him now. His giving Kelsey the company is ridiculous. He and Liza are the definition of saccharine.

I wonder if that Spencer is truly Spencer? I think Mira/Lombard know that Spencer is Claire's weak spot. She named her daughter for him after all. Wonder if they sent someone else to pretend to be him?

"It has to be Jon's..." Just when I thought Eddie and Delilah couldn't sink any lower, they decide they are going to now lie to their unborn child. Yep. That will work out wonderfully for everyone involved... but the child. Like, these two just don't think. They want to build lies upon lies and in the end, the unborn child is going to be devastated when the truth gets out because eventually it always does. It would be better to tell the truth now to all the children and have them rightfully be angry and perhaps hate Eddie and Delilah. It just comes down to the fact that they don't want to face any consequences for their actions or truly make the situation better. These two are always so whiny and concerned about how bad things will make them look that they just dig themselves into deeper holes. But somehow Eddie is convinced he is going to always 'be there' and it won't bother him to not actively raise his love child or be acknowledged as the father. And Delilah is somehow convinced that her children might not grow a brain many years down the road and not see, "...Hey so and so looks a little like Uncle Eddie..." They are the most 'selfishly selfless' losers on television as of late. And yes I mean the selfless part because they both seem to have very high opinions of themselves and the 'sacrifices' they've had to make for their 'love'. They have no self-awareness when it comes to the lying and expect others to cover up shit for them (Can't believe Delilah thought Gina/Rome should keep that secret). Every conversation has one of them on the verge of tears from 'denying their love' (Delilah) and 'proclaiming their love' (Eddie). It is so damn silly. If they really wanted things to be over, they would both have stopped seeing each other in any/all capacity. But neither (no matter how much Delilah says she 'can't do this anymore'...wtf did she come to see his show?? I think she secretly likes that he 'wants her') is really willing to cut the chord and now they won't be able to with a baby on the way that is 'Jon's and not Eddie's' *wink wink*. End of my rant.

Is Archie serving out his sentence at Shawshank??

Well, they haven't shown themselves to have critical thinking skills now have they haha. Who knows what she was doing while Lucy was in daycare. But like you said she wasn't working. Perhaps it was extra time dedicated to exploring her hobby on the singing app lol. If they are going to continue making poor decisions, she might as well start owning up to them financially.

Well, it is the responsibility of both parents to provide for their child. Rachel better get a damn job to contribute to Lucy's daycare and the upkeep of her older daughter. She seems able-bodied and does not seem to have any mental ailments that could hinder her from holding gainful employment. I hope he garnishes wages when that time comes for her to pay child support. Sorry, but this lack of work ethic just irks me so much on a personal level. I have a physical disability and have had more surgeries and personal setbacks than I can count. Still, I hold down two jobs/ put myself through university despite a lot of jerk-faced teachers telling me I did not have the 'mental capabilities' for higher education. For Jon to quit his job was incredibly irksome and plain irresponsible. He has a criminal record. Who knows how long it may have taken for him to get his recycling collection job. He just quits without trying to search for any follow-ups or plans and has so much debt. Good paying jobs to support a family are not exactly easy to come by with that sort of history. I despise people who 'do first and think later'. They are always the people crying about how 'unfair' it all is (Rachel loves to throw this around) and never take any personal responsibility. I can't stand these two one bit and I don't think horrible decisions in life should be rewarded, especially when the people in question don't seem to ever show any signs of having learned from past mistakes. Poor Lucy deserves so much better.

I know everyone is put off by the affair and don't get me wrong, I am too, but I am rather entertained by the inept sneaking around this episode for their little angsty talks. If only because I really can't believe that no one in this 'close' and 'family-like' group of friends has caught on to any of the googly eyes, pained expressions of 'forbidden/star-crossed love', the touching, and just general energy happening between Eddie and Delilah. Very good melodrama to meet my cackling needs. I just find that as a group, they get along on such a superficial level. Like they all just want to look like good guys and have everyone see them being good guys. Like Delilah letting the assistant work from Jon's home office and use his laptop. And the assistant showing up with Jon's coffee. Or even Jon leaving the restaurant to Gina along with his wife and Maggie being accepted into the group so quickly. And all the speeches about how great and wonderful Jon was/how he would want things. I don't know...the group friendship just doesn't ring true to me yet. That all being said, I do enjoy the characters of Rome and Gary. Gary is the comic relief and Rome seems kind-hearted. I like how at least Gary is checking in on Rome/ concerned for his mental health. Eddie has not done that because he is too busy trying not to cry about denying himself the love of 'a strong woman' aka Deliah. I guess his wife busting her balls to provide for their family is not strong enough.

I think she showed a bit of an unpleasant side when talking to Rome. Katherine mentioned how she did not think the funeral would be an all-day event and acted like it is inconveniencing her busy work schedule. In my opinion that was a very cold thing to say and also something to keep to yourself. Especially considering that she later tells Delilah that Jon was the one person who went out of his way to make her feel apart of the group. But I guess I can give credit to the fact that she does not operate on fakery and deception like her dear old husband Eddie with his saccharine eulogy. Jon is barely cold in his grave and Eddie can't wait to get with Delilah.

Same. I have very little sympathy for her. I also had no sympathy for Annie and for some reason, she was also a fan favourite for victimhood/ circumstances 'forcing' her to go for a man she clearly has no attraction towards. I think Hazel may still with the father of her child and is scamming Tarik. She is not innocent and being upfront her intentions does not make them any more honorable in my opinion. I guess it is not very PC but I will say this...yes, a lot of these men have outdated and gross Asian women fetishes, but to act like a lot of these Asian women are not playing into the stereotypes if it will benefit and help them get to America is silly. Dean had every right to ask why she was avoiding eye contact and stalling on questions. If you tell the truth, you don't have to think and you also don't avoid eye contact. His approach could have been much better but I am also glad he did not back down. His brother Tarik is an imbecile who seems a bit touched and clearly needs the situation spelled out. I only wish Dean had brought up how Tarik also decided to abandon his little girl to go chasing a woman he only knew for two weeks.

I will try and say something nice about Liza and Charles. If she likes it, I love it! Lol...I tried, I really did. But I almost puked when Charles said, "You were sitting reading 'Look, Homeward Angel' and I thought 'Who does that?' ", or whatever 'deep' crap he said that was supposed to emphasize their 'strong' and 'profound' connection. And since he asked, I've sat at my desk on lunch break and read many many books. Where is my star-crossed love story at?! I jest...but not really.

A minor pet peeve...but Liza with all her love of literature and I believe an English Major in University, says that Ada Lovelace was the only daughter of Lord Bryon... I mean what was Allegra then? Do better, Liza! Perhaps she meant legitimate daughter but still. Also, I cannot stand Charles and his moping. I really do not care who Liza ends up with but I have never thought he was an amazing catch.

I have a lot of conflicting feelings about this send-off. But while watching the scene in the parking garage, I imagined Stan's internal dialogue went much like this clip below. And my internal dialogue went like this in response to Stan's weakness and stupidity: "Oh God, oh Stan!" I did actually want to throw something at Stan for not bringing back up. On another note, I am glad Paige got off the train. I have got to say for all the talk about Henry deserving a normal American life, Paige deserved one too. Her parents never wanted to let her have one like they did for Henry in my opinion. Every little joy or form of self-discovery she sought out was always met with hostility while Henry was nurtured So I am glad she realized her life has always been her own. I hope she can get in contact with Henry. I knew deep down she would not leave him.