7kstar

Being optimist isn't a bad thing! It is one reason I've stayed instead of giving up, I keep hoping that this time they will fix it and move into the right directions. I believe they have a plan but I don't think they have a solid plan. More like a vague direction and if the fans like it, they'll add more...if the fans hate it, they'll move on. I agree @DittyDotDot that the speech is really about everyone from Season 5, the hurts that Sam has carried and pretends he's healed and finds himself once again feeling those emotions all over the place. On one hand I get that, I know I've forgiven my mother over and over and each time I thought this was it, only to have it slap me in the face again. If you are really deeply wounded, it comes in layers and you have to peel back the layers in order to get it resolved. So I can see Sam talking about Season 5, you don't trust me and I need your trust. Plus he did try to kill Benny. So for Sam it is when you can't trust me, you turned to an Angel, Cas and a vampire Benny. What happens the next time? Another angel, another vampire or something worse???? In this case it was Crowley...and we know how bad that turned out. I don't know that Carver was forshadowing as much as he had a clear image for this moment. Looking at several vids, this moment is really strong. It creates strong feels and Dean responds with his strong feels don't think there isn't anything I wouldn't put in front of you, I killed Benny remember? It's also why Sam being upset didn't work. He should understand that Dean would do anything to save his life. Sure he can be upset with the lies Dean told and being possessed, but at that moment Dean declared how far he would go to save his life. This of course is then the setup for the opening of Season 8. Just like a poem or song can have many interpretations that the author never intended, so can scenes and lines. I think this is an example of you can add your own twist and if it fits the storyline, it works. In acting I tell the kids that if you make up backgrounds about your character, just make sure it fits the structure of the story. I think that is why we love these characters so much, there is so much to work with and it fits our lives or helps us to see how our lives is at least better than the Winchesters.

some of the physic kids storylines were well thought out and this is an example of why it worked. However for some reason Ava doesn't work as well on repeat watchings. But I think this is a weakness with the writing, they don't write some woman well at all and some work because the actress can over come the weak script. For me that's why Ellen worked, I think she is a stronger actress but some of the vagueness of the script hurts even a strong actor. Also one problem in TV and Film vs stage, the actors don't get the entire script to see how their character lines up with the entire story. They get sides and sometimes that leads them to make bad choices that later they may regret. Even Jared has talked about that in a con. This whole storyline is very strong with the ending. It could have been lackluster but luckily for us Jensen is a strong actor and all the emotions he expresses most likely made me remember this ep as stronger than it was. I'll watch this part over and over. It's just so powerful to watch. It took me by surprise on the re-watching that I didn't love this ep as much as I thought I did. I really enjoyed Ava the first time and I agree with everything above. I miss this bit in Supernatural where it shows the brothers have plans in case some things go wrong. It's just in re-watch Ava becomes too one dimensional and doesn't fit with the ep so much. So you have a nice realistic opening, then sitcom Ava and go back to realism and it jars you too much. Plus on the re-watch I get bored with Ava quickly. I think this is the problem with not really planning out the arcs. I understand doing a vague outline so you can change things but in this instance it hurt them, because instead of figuring out what stories they really wanted to tell, they seem like a hit or miss. I think stronger planning would have help this ep and some of the others in this season.

-- In My Time of Dying -- Nightshifter + Hollywood Babylon 38 - In My Time of Dying 36 - What Is and What Should Never Be 12 - Hollywood Babylon 08 - Nightshifter 07- Tall Tales 03 - Crossroad Blues 03 - Born Under a Bad Sign Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Folsom Prison Blues

I agree they could have done Dean talking about how much he loved the mystery and figured it had to be tied into hunting and wondering what type of evil monster was it. Something to that effect. It just didn't throw me out during the watching of it because I got it was another Sam showing off just how smart he was since he had the better education.

When you count into the factor that Dean did raise Sam and add that Sam has shut down to grief over Jessica, I never saw this as creepy but encouraging Sam to take risk again. It looked more like a proud Dad watching his son take a first step to new experiences. Plus Dean loves sex and why wouldn't he want Sam to enjoy himself a little bit. Sam liked her and the chemistry is good so why not see if you couldn't get them together? I liked Sarah and wish they had used her more. It does have a great ending and I thought it was one relationship that really seemed real.

this one was higher on my list until I rewatched it recently. I like how Dean can communicate even tied up. I also like that it looks like Dean is easily saving the day to only get trapped and needing rescuing. Sam running off...sucks. The secret was a so what and Sam's reaction felt like a big child instead of handling it. I think this shows the show isn't really understanding how to deal with gifts all these children are suppose to have and this wasn't something strong enough to fill up a season. Maybe a half season but not the full season. I like the ending with Gordon and their are few moments that are fun, but I found myself more bored on rewatched than I remembered being in the first time I watched it.

I didn't know what Roanoke was and I'm sure there are many that don't remember that part of history. Dean not knowing was to make sure that the audience would know. So although you might have found it stupid, there are people out there that don't know or didn't find it fascinating to remember it. I see Dean willing to die as planting the seed so the finale will make sense. If Dean was all about doing it on his own, why would he feel the need to go and get Sam back in the pilot. But I've grown up with some really stupid shows and most shows have some not so good parts so I give this a pass. It isn't my favorite, nor is it the worst one for me in the season.

Just guessing but isn't it in seasons 2 or 3? Just going by Jared's hair. lol Also he's not as built as in 4 or 5

In My Time of Dying -- WIaWSNB + Nightshifter -- 39 - In My Time of Dying 37 - What Is and What Should Never Be 17 - Hollywood Babylon 09 - Nightshifter 08 - Tall Tales 05 - Crossroad Blues 01 - Born Under a Bad Sign Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Folsom Prison Blues

The one thing I liked about Sam is that he didn't try to force his wishes on his brother. Yes he tried to get him to leave but he also allowed Dean's being weary of going it alone to decide his own fate. I don't think it was suicide as much as it was if you're going down then I'm going down with you. I think it has been shown in prior eps that Dean puts Sammy over him anytime. I think in faith he knew that Sam could return to the normal life but Dean always expected to go out hunting. As long as he had a good run, he didn't mind how it ended. Still not my favorite ep, but it has a few good moments. The doctor bit is almost like showing the stereotype that small town doctors just don't know how to deal with a major crisis. At least that is how I took it. But then again, I'm from a small town and the doctors usually aren't the best in a small town. But sometimes you do get lucky.

To some extent that whole speech is weird. The only person that hasn't betrayed Dean is Benny, as far as the three being mentioned. But I think for Dean, Sam is the weak one, he's ill so he's not capable of normal physical responsibilities. Cas at least wasn't so weak in Dean's eyes but too trusting of the wrong person. Which is why Dean makes the statement, you seriously think that, NONE of that is true. I killed Benny to save you. I'm willing to let all the demon's walk to save you. Basically your the one I've put in front of everyone. However I think Sam hasn't forgiven himself for trusting a demon over his brother and is still feeling the guilt. He buried it and said he had forgiven himself, but he isn't the one that can give him the forgiveness he needs and in this moment he's had to seriously look at his worst sins and the regrets that are eating away at him. So I can take that last speech but then comes the turnaround in the beginning of season 9 and no wonder Dean can't keep up. It was as if the whole speech meant nothing and suddenly it hadn't been spoken but Dean was still reacting to it. This is where I wish the writers would think about the interpretations of their lines. No wonder the fans can't agree when the writing is all over the place. So I guess I just pick out the parts I like and ignore the rest since the writers choose to do the same.

40 - What Is and What Should Never Be 39 - In My Time of Dying 21 - Hollywood Babylon 13 - Nightshifter 11 - Tall Tales 05 - Crossroad Blues 03 - Born Under a Bad Sign Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Folsom Prison Blues Just fixing the errors, no voting since I already did - checked it twice but next voter can double check. :)

Didn't help you save BUaBS but I didn't take it out either. So it's alive for a little longer. I can tell the battle between the last few is getting ready to get nasty...as I don't think we are all on the same page. In My Time of Dying -- Nightshifter -- Tall Tales -- 41 - In My Time of Dying 40 - What Is and What Should Never Be 20 - Hollywood Babylon 14 - Nightshifter 13 - Tall Tales 07 - Crossroad Blues 02 - Born Under a Bad Sign Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Folsom Prison Blues

@sue b I want to believe that this time will be different and your interpretation certainly works. But I will have to wait to see if your right or if they once again take it down the yellow brick road. I'm hopeful but I was hopeful at the end of Season 8 and man did the writers take that down a rabbit hole. Now do I hate Supernatural, of course not, if that was true I wouldn't still be watching at all. Point, I started Lost but watched only a few seasons, I started the Superman - Smallville but had quit way before Jensen even became part of the show. So when I give up on something I don't come back. But I am still trying with Supernatural and I like Sam and Dean. I'm find with them dealing with their pain differently and I felt that Sam at the end of 7 was just in shock, and couldn't deal with being alone and just driving. Drifting until he hit the dog and desperate for a connection any connection, he starts to like Amelia. So if the writers had gone that angel and avoided the whole I refused to look for you because of our deal...I would have liked it and it might have made the relationship better. On one hand I thought Carver is really trying to make Sam be in a place of I'm not hiding, I will deal with this. I just hope we avoid a time jump at the end of the year especially since the writers forget about it anyway. On of the wonderful things in life is how we love things differently and we don't have to see it all the same. The characters are so wonderfully rich and raw, and just itching for a good story. So I hope they deliver. I can look over a lot. I like season 1 even though there are some really big flaws. @AwesomO4000 I'm right their with you if they kill of Jody Mills. It's time to leave the few left alive. It might be interesting to see Sam with a cougar love interest. lol

Since I use to watch Soaps and I don't think they really do the soap stuff that much. Soaps is all about triangles and the constant back and forth will they get together or will they get back together which I don't see them doing with anyone other than Sam and Dean. Yes on that level they write Sam and Dean as a soap opera. Will Sam like Dean this season? No wait, it's Dean's turn to be upset this season. This part I am so done with. I wouldn't have minded seeing what you suggested but I liked Benny and the only part I didn't like was Sam wanting to kill Benny but that I blame on writing. the supernatural I stayed home to watch live and missed doing things with my friends is over. I haven't been that way since season 4. I don't have a way to record shows now, my dvd/vcr died and so now I watch on the internet or if I happen to be home I watch it live. But sometimes I'm flipping channels if I find I don't really feel drawn into the characters. Some stuff I don't get worked up about if the acting is good as I switch into director mode and watch from that point of view so I'm not bored when I switch from audience to director. Of course I wish my life had allowed me to do it professionally but it is a difficult field and on that level I respect their right to create even if I don't love their choices, if that makes any sense.

the reason I like those scenes is that I jump out of audience mode and jump into director mode. They do act the hell out of those moments but it isn't a show I watch all the way and yes it has several issues but I get distracted by the acting and I forget about how contrive it is. So if the scene is acted well, I can't help myself, I'll like that scene even if I don't love that ep. Maybe the problem really is that we think about these things over and over and they don't. They write, film and edit it and go yes that works and never think about it again. Sometimes I've even heard the actors at the con say tell me what happened I don't remember. So if the actors can't remember and the writers don't remember isn't it a wonder it's a mess? Those two fun scenes are why I do like parts of this ep but it is one you can easily ignore and one I don't really rewatch that often.

Well they do seem to like writing like a 12 year old when it comes to sex lately. Intense can mean so many things so I'll wait before I get worked up over it. I think they think if the fans are attacking each other and really steamed they will want to tune in. I always laugh when people wonder why this movie made so much money because it had a good story with good characterizations and didn't have the gore and sex to sell it. Seem like several writers think the formula, okay we got the gore, check got the female bonus since we have a short sex scene put in some drama, yep that's a strong show, they'll love it! then are shocked when the fans have an opposite reaction. I really wonder if they will use the Line from Season 4 - Dean - We need each other to stay human. Now maybe Sam will realize he has a chance of getting through because Dean did in Season 5. I'll watch but if this show doesn't improve, I hope they will let it go before there isn't much to like about the show at all. Also sometimes I have trouble expressing myself with words and write things not necessarily in the right way, so if you feel I've done a 180, most likely I expressed myself badly.

@AwesomO4000 If you take what I saw of Sam in season 7 and 8, he didn't seem out of character. Unfortunately it only fueled my dislike for his character. Before Season 6 I could understand some of his bad traits. And I kept hoping they would resolve them and move on. The writers are weird about some things. They like to create patterns and one they have created with Dean that anytime his brother or Dad is really really nice to him, they are NOT them? So that explains why he didn't recognize Sam earlier in that ep, so they could pull Sam not nice to you card. Yet when Dean came out of the grave, he had no problem tracking Sam down even though Bobby didn't have a clue. So I still say Dean knows his brother reactions unless its a fault or issue he doesn't want to deal with, then the blinders come out. Both brothers have flaws and both have done things to this relationship but for me, Dean has balanced the books more than Sam. I'm hoping this time instead of Sam criticizing and saying damaging things that he sticks with his growth and recognize that they will always see things differently but they need each other to be human. I also hope they keep him as a strong hunter and avoid the Sam's not capable of doing anything unless big brother is there to watch his back. Of course the writers seem to enjoy pulling out the drama and not really deal with things other than repeat and rinse. I watched the going back in time ep and I liked that Sam and that ep. I just had forgotten it since I tend to not remember 7. I'm not a fan of Sam in Season 8. I agree with you that the writers really messed things up if they had the brothers working together and once again drugged him backwards. Sam had legit arguments and complaints but they didn't use them, instead they focused on him tearing his brother down and now he may regret that. Certainly Dean by himself feeling like he's the worst thing in the world never turns out well. Of course without that part, Dean would have gotten the mark and wouldn't be a Demon and yes Dean is responsible for his actions. But I wish they had shown Sam talking about his struggles because now maybe Dean could understand and it would have helped them but if they did that the conflict would have been destroyed and Dean wouldn't have become a Demon. LOL. So I'm clear it is the writing that I have the most problem with. Carver seems to only be able to write half of good stuff and the rest just seems to be a great big disappointment. Dean and Benny good, Dean and Mark good, finale good and I even liked Sam. But Sam's reactions for most of season 8, not so much. I don't get it unless the writers know nothing about the show. Maybe that's the problem, the writers are writing as though Season 8 is the start of Supernatural and forgetting there is so much richness that they are totally ignoring.

@mstaken I totally agree the pilot is a great start. I have rewatched many times especially when I want to see the brothers at a fun moment. The potienal is so great the setup is strong and sometimes I wonder why they couldn't keep it going and really wonder if the writers understand what the fans mean when they say they miss season 1. I'm afraid they think they want the brothers not getting along and if that is so popular then I'm really not one of their members. I think the show is at it's strongest when they unite and fight together. Seeing the brothers using their particular strengths to complete goals is what drew me in. Sigh I guess this is unpopular reading fanfiction that focus on the brothers although I don't mind Dean whump stories, for some reason I 'm not a big fan of Sam whump though. Maybe because the show whumps Sam too much already?

In My Time of Dying -- Nightshifter -- Hollywood Babylon + 42 - In My Time of Dying 41 - What Is and What Should Never Be 24- Hollywood Babylon 17- Nightshifter 16 - Tall Tales 07 - Crossroad Blues 04 - Born Under a Bad Sign 02 - Folsom Prison Blues Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2

It's three eps that I watch and I just was so sick of this Sam. I blame the writers for some, the acting for some but his I'm sorry's never felt more than I'll say this and this will make it all better. Maybe because I have a relative that does just that. The thing with Amy, instead of going okay Dean...I'm not helpless anymore, let's talk he just does his usual and walks away with how dare you. Sam has been guilty of that through all season's. I'm not talking about him going to college...never had a problem with that and I'm not even talking about Soulless Sam. I actually like Soulless Sam in small doses but they drew it out too long. I'm also tired of poor Sam needs to be rescued. I do think one of the funny things that Jared talked about here is Sam with a small boo boo and Dean recovers from a terrible broken leg quickly but Sam's takes forever to heal. This I blame on bad writing choices. I was tired of poor upset Sam in Season 4 and he has never gotten me to feel he really got where his brother is coming from. He says I'm sorry but then is surprised that Dean will kill a monster that is feeding? Sure he can be upset and even angry but to run away once again. I'm talking about season 1 not college. The line that most turned me off the most was Sam supposedly forgiving himself. It felt like a last straw and my dislike for the season made it much worse. I really thought they had so much better stuff they could have done with that ep and for Dean to feel the most guilty over Amy was just plain stupid. He has other wounds that are so much stronger IMO. I blame the writers for missing the mark. I haven't watched Season 7 other than one viewing and I really thought that 7 would be the end of me watching the show. Season 8 storyline with Dean peaked my interest and I watched for those parts but not faithfully either. I liked Sam 1-3. I understood that 4 was suppose to be this big bad Sam because Dean was too weak and he did a lot of damage that season, nothing the show has done repair the damage he started back then at least for me. I get he put up with Dean in Season 5 to try to prove to Dean that he really wanted to fix things but it just feels like the show won't let that end and the solution felt like see I've fixed it, now if you don't agree too bad. Yes I get that you can't control the other person's reactions and at some point you have to say I've done the best I can and move on. But it just feels like the show starts to fix it and then rinse and repeats so it is once again broken and nothing was solved. I don't own anything past 5. So rewatching 7 isn't happening cause I don't like it enough to buy it. But I think we both agree on wanting them to move on. That perhaps with Sam's last line in the Season 9 finale it can realize that they will never agree on somethings and just to accept Dean for who he is. And maybe for me that was my biggest problem with Sam. Dean did, yes he faltered sometimes and struggled with it but it seems like he gets Sam way better than Sam gets him. Now the writers have given Dean some stupid lines as well but emotionally Jensen sells it better than Jared, so I can feel it by the expressions and sometimes I don't feel it with Sam. Dang got long winded again. Maybe a bit of mine is I can't separate Sam from Season 7. Hopefully some of this makes sense. And maybe one day I'll watch some of it on youtube when it finally gets old enough that they don't mind it being there. I really hated the Leviathans storyline but if you can say what eps focuses on this and the Leviathans aren't a core part of the ep, I might watch one or two on itunes. (encouraged Dean to laugh at (and with) him while giving him a present, and when Dean disappeared, Sam worked the case until he dropped from lack of sleep, working until he got Dean back.)

@AwesomO4000 I'm not a fan of Season 7 I barely remember it, I didn't watch it live and I really hated what they did with Sam. The funny thing before I would read the comments about poor Dean or Poor Sam and laugh, especially when they started talking about either actor should just leave the show. I really am sick to death of whose done what to each other, so really I would like them to EMBRACE Kevin's advice and just get over it already. But I guess from my point of view as the older sibling, of course, I don't see Dean backing down that much but really only occasionally putting his foot down. It reminds me of my dog's reaction to the younger female dog. He would take her roughhousing and she would push and push and push and then finally he would let her know back off, and he would nip her. That's all it took. But of course, she would soon be doing it again. This reminds me of Dean and Sam. To me that's whats happened with Dean, he's let Sam do things his way and usually it backfires but then he has this moment where he's just had enough and stands up to Sam. Sam will back off because most of the time he gets his way unless Dean really believes it's wrong. But Sam has been bossy since the beginning. But I don't really blame Sam as when he's grown up believing his self worth is important and Dean has encouraged him to believe he is more important than him, hence I'll go to hell cause you should be alive more than me. HOWEVER I really hope the line gave in the Season 9 finale will mean something. I don't remember it exactly but it was something along the lines, let's take down Metatron before we find something else to fight about. I'm taking that statement as we will always disagree, but we work better together. Plus at the end when he realizes his brother is dying, that now he wants to do something even though Dean tells him it's better this way and leave. Of course with their track record, it will be dropped and once again they move back into can't get along. So to some degree I think we are on the same page even though we don't agree on everything. :) Understand, sometimes we just have to focus on our guilty pleasures. :) I guess I got long winded so I figured it would be better to split them but it wouldn't let me. :( In Theatre producer is the one that brings in the money. Director is the important one. So I forget how it works, on TV. If they do go past 10, I hope they ask for it, unless they don't want it. I wonder if it means more time on their part and less time with their families. I guess I thought that if actors became an executive producer, it was a way for the show to not necessarily increase their pay because they got more revenue if the show did well especially in repeats

I wonder why they don't have Executive Producer Credits? Do they have to invest in the show for them to get that? I agree with you on this post. My issue with the going dark, that they just dip their toe in the pool and them scramble out in some stupid way. Think of Head of Pin and then it's followed by It's a terrible Life and they just ignore the weight that Dean was carrying. If you're going to go there then go there. I never bought Sam's redemption arc because he'd say I'm sorry and then repeat the same things, so how on earth does that mean he's changed when he hasn't. I hope this time they will repair the relationship and put the conflict where it belongs on fighting against the odds. Okay this can go so many ways. A bit of a devil --- what does that mean? Does he act as if he is so into her and willing to marry her only to drop her in the dust? One opposite would be for Dean to be totally without remorse and doing what he wants to do, by putting himself first. He doesn't usually do this other than a few eps in Season 3. WE already saw one change in 9, he finally told Sam this is how it will be and no I'm in charge. So it may be more of that, he isn't willing to listen to Sam and finally just doesn't care. This could be a challenge for Sam to deal with, because he really hasn't had Dean stand up to him and just not care. I 2nd the idea of Dean going to get Benny so we can see Benny's reaction. How Cass will figure into this, don't have an idea other than he's once again all alone and since he believes Dean is dead, and doesn't know about him being turned into a Demon, he may just ignore the boys for awhile.

Hollywood Babylon + ( Can't help it, I like it and it is one of their better ones of showing what happens on a set.) Nightshifter -- Tall Tales -- I really like the trickster but this is my least favorite of his and something has to go down. 43 - In My Time of Dying 42 - What Is and What Should Never Be 26- Hollywood Babylon 23- Nightshifter 19 - Tall Tales 11 - Crossroad Blues 09 - Born Under a Bad Sign 05 - Folsom Prison Blues Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2

Because Casting Directors can be someone that doesn't have a clue about acting. But they think they do. I had a class with an actress Named Judith Ivy and she talked about how some casting directors got in the business without any background in acting and she would receive the funniest directions. They would say things like, I like it but can you do it faster and funnier? I also imagine Carver is aware of how much these things are leaked and if he wants to keep it unknown, he has to make it as generic as possible. What was the original line - do you know? Sometimes I wonder if Jared and Jensen changing some lines create some of the issues we fans react to? This show is sometimes just weird about sex and I hope they have outgrown some of the stuff they have done in the past as it is getting really old. But I wouldn't mind Dean showing less layers and maybe totally shirtless, but I'm shallow on that. The only thing I would see is Dean enjoying going after Demons and torturing them. But Dean having flings haven't really been in the picture that much since season 3. I know he had one in season 7 but that one turned out bad and Dean hasn't really been shown to doing much lately. Of course it could be they think it will be comic as the bits the did with the trickster in season 1? Too early to get worked up over it. Right now I think they are deliberately giving some misdirections. It would be interesting if Jensen became an Executive Producer.