fluffy

http://www.tvguide.com/news/gilmore-girls-a-year-in-the-life-logan/ I know that people who hated Logan all along will disagree with this, but I think it made some very valid points. LOL!

I often love Sookie more than I love Lorelai! She has a lot of the bubbly, vivacious enthusiasm of Lorelai without being quite as petty and immature. I think she got worse as the series went on, but so did almost everyone :)

Bless this thread! I have a few that are so seriously unpopular that I'm not sure I'd risk voicing them anywhere other than the internet :-) I just don't feel the love for Luke. When I started reading this thread a few days ago, I was so relieved to see that a few other people feel the same way. In general, the Luke love is so pervasive -- online, among the Gilmore Girls watchers I know in real life, even among critics who seem to currently dislike nearly every other aspect of this show -- that I actually feel like something is legitimately wrong with me for not loving Luke or his relationship with Lorelai and for seeing a lot of what he does as really problematic. Whenever I rewatch an episode, I still try to enjoy him as much as the rest of the world, not just because I want to fit in with the 99% majority of the GG fandom who loves him but because objectively speaking I probably have more in common with Luke than any character other than possibly Rory. I should relate to him or at least appreciate him more than I do. On most other TV shows, I zero in on the cranky, snarky introvert with a secretly good heart and declare them my favorite character. I've seen most of this show's episodes about a handful of times and still haven't figured out if my failure to like Luke is primarily about the writing, the casting and acting of Scott Patterson, or some previously undiagnosed genetic defect on my part. ;) Aside from a few great individual moments, he's boring and one dimensional to me on his best days and a seriously unpleasant, churlish, petulant and angry lout on his worst days. Like someone said a while back, it's nice that he shows he cares by fixing things around the house or helping in a crisis. But the other 360 or so days a year with him would consist of him constantly angry for no valid reason, complaining and moping, always annoyed at life in general or you in particular. I loved the discussion about how in the Palladinos' quirky yet often cynical world there appear to be two basic "types" of men: angry, proudly rude misanthropes who hate everything except (sometimes) the woman they want to be with and pampered party boys whose superficial charm can't be trusted. Apparent "normal" nice guys who don't fall immediately into either category, like poor Paul from the revival, are dismissed as unworthy of consideration. But here is where I whisper the opinion that's even more unpopular than not liking Luke: I thought Rory and Logan had the closest thing to a happy, loving relationship on the show. Obviously there were problems and a few things about them individually and as a unit that makes me cringe, as one expects from TV romance in general and Amy Palladino's writing in particular. The revival seemed to be Amy's way of hammering home that we're not supposed to like and trust Logan, though I once again came away with opinions I don't think Amy wants me to have, because the revival convinced me they have an even deeper connection than I'd realized, clearly love each other and are just making terrible chocies right now because they're a mess (and so was the revival). I didn't even want to like Logan - he reminded me of the type of guy I despise in real life - but he soon emerged as the best part of the show's final three seasons. I saw infinitely more warmth, chemistry and joy between them than LL had on even their better days. I agree with the people who said they're the one couple on the show who aren't too opposite to be compatible but different enough to challenge each other. I just thought they were good to and for each other. I gather we're supposed to think of their relationship as just Logan partying his life away while Rory tagged blandly and enjoyed his occasional grand romantic gestures while ignoring that the reltionship had no real substance, but that's just not how it came off to me. What they had felt real, and they communicated better than almost any other couple. Logan seemed to like Rory precisely because she was more serious and had depth that the other women he met had been lacking. (People here might not agree with Logan's assessment of Rory, but I think that's how he saw her!) I don't see it as him negatively influencing her or her "taming" him. They came into each other's lives at a time when both were ready to change anyway: she wanted more adventure and he wanted something deeper and more real. Sorry for the rambling, but I just have very strong feelings about Logan/Rory and the fact that I'm one of the very few adults in the world who still wants them to be together! Luke/Lorelai are the couple I feel like I should ship while Logan/Rory are the kind I usually don't like, but somehow I came away from this show feeling exactly the opposite. I don't have anything against Jess other than that he's that same negative, rude and angry type who Amy Palladino seems very fond of, but he and Rory did have chemistry, and at least Jess had some intelligence and a few layers that make him more interesting and enjoyable than his uncle. He also matured a lot, though it's frustrating that the only Palladino characters who grow and mature are the ones who are allowed to do it off screen. All due respect to everyone who loves Rory and Jess, but I just prefer Logan for Rory. I think it's that I think she's very introverted, anxious and regimented by nature who benefits from a cheerful, adventurous and spotaneous extrovert. I agree that Logan and Lorelai are similar, and maybe it's because the Lorelai/Rory relationship is my favorite thing about the show that I love the Logan/Rory dynamic too. And Rory and Logan clearly had mutually strong feelings in the revival, while with Rory and Jess there seemed such an imbalance, with Jess having the kind of feelings for Rory that she doesn't appear to have had for him in years, so at this point I just would rather Jess find someone who's as into him as he's into her. And I just don't see Rory fitting into Jess's lifestyle. She's mainstream, traditional and conventional in a lot of ways that Jess isn't and never will be. (That's not an insult to either, just something I see as making them less compatible) Sending hugs to everyone who said they thought from very early on that Rory should have been an English lit teacher or something similar. You all have done a great job of analyzing why she doesn't seem like she'd be either a good journalist or a happy one, and the revival drove that home whether it intended to or not. I feel like Rory (or just Alexis Bledel?) always lit up when reading and discussing fiction. It was always when she was most animated and alive. Someone I know jokes how because she doesn't ship Rory/Dean, Rory/Jess or Rory/Logan, her one true "ship" is Rory/books because that's when Rory seems at her happiest and best. Emily, Lorelai and Rory are kind of terrible, but I still love them anyway. Come to think of it, that sums up my opinion of the entire show.

Fun questions! If you had to pick just 3-5 favorite characters, who would they be?! ALL OF THEM! But since that's obviously not playing fair, I'll keep Zoe, Wash, River, Mal and Simon. If you could recast any of the roles with whichever actor/actress of your choice, who would be your pick? I'm not sure if it's that I want to recast Kaylee as much as I'd want to rewrite her, but even though I love in the abstract that there's a character who remains such an open optimist, in reality her character didn't come together as someone very interesting or multi-dimensional to me. And which of the characters could you most happily do without? Again, I'll have to pick on Kaylee. After first watching the show, I might have chosen Inara or Book, but they're both more interesting to me than Kaylee is. 3-5 favorite relationships among the characters The only romantic relationship I loved was Wash/Zoe. (Didn't like Inara/Mal and flat out hated Simon/Kaylee.) But Zoe/Wash is one of my favorite relationships ever seen on TV and possibly the only Whedon romance I've ever really liked! Platonically, I love Mal/Zoe, Simon/River and the dynamics between Mal/Simon, River/Jayne and Mal/River. I love the idea of a close Zoe/River friendship and a close Mal/Wash friendship too. 3-5 favorite episodes Trash, Our Mrs. Reynolds, War Stories, Ariel, Out of Gas I did like aspects of the film but am in the camp who loved every episode more than the movie. Just writing about this show makes me want to watch it again tonight, which is a prudent use of my time since I've only seen it about 48 times before. :-)

I love River too and don't see her as a Mary Sue at all, in part because Joss Whedon didn't shy away from just how much psychological, cognitive and emotional damage she's sustained. I think it's fascinating to think about how much of River's core identity they were able to alter along with her brain and how much of her real self remains and might eventually reemerge. I think characters like Fred Burkle from Angel are far bigger Mary Sues for multiple reasons, so I'm not saying Joss doesn't fall into the trap of creating overly cutesy, quirky and perfect women who are doted on and adored by all while excelling at absolutely everything they do, just that for me River doesn't quite fall into that category. Firefly is the one Joss Whedon show I still really love and can rewatch constantly. Buffy and Angel didn't hold up as well for me. Zoe and Wash are one of my favorite relationships ever on TV. Despite agreeing with those who think Joss should have altered, expanded on or just ditched the concept of companions, I grew to like Inara a lot. I also enjoy Bok. Kaylee is probably the character who adds the least to the show for me, but I love in theory that there's someone who remains so cheerful, open and optimistic despite what this crew does and what they've experienced. This is probably my favorite show of all time, but part of me is almost glad it ended before it had the chance to disappoint viewers, leaving us to fill in so many intriguing blanks with our imaginations. Even though this show is nearly perfect, I agree with the person who didn't like Mal/Inara or Simon/Kaylee. Saffron was one of my favorite Whedon antagonists, and the two episodes she's in are two of the 3-4 episodes I watch the most. If the show had continued, I could see myself eventually shipping Mal with River. I couldn't that confess that anywhere other than over the internet!