Hotaru

When did Logan blame someone else for his mistakes and actions? Logan constantly owning his shit is actually part of pattern of behavior typical of abuse victims. Purposely doing bad things so that you can feel like you deserve abuse and therefore feeling like you have control over punishment. It's something the show actually did right. He constantly admits that he did something wrong when asked. Veronica is the one that needs to find bad guys so that she feels justified for all her bad actions. I love Veronica but she is self-centered and self-righteous and judgmental to the max, it's what makes her the flawed noir hero. She feels responsible for all the wrong things.

I agree that all of the characters are flawed and I love that, no one is perfect, this is noir. The problem with Duncan is that he is not human or sympathetic and the narrative constantly treats him as such. And Logan did not blame Veronica for what her father did, he blamed her for supporting her father's actions. It's not defense mechanism for himself, it's misguided protection of Kanes and it was horrible, not just unfair. The difference is that Logan is great friend to Duncan and Duncan just doesn't care. Is such a problem with both writing and acting that Duncan seems more like an alien trying to learn to imitate human emotion. The acting is wooden but he is also given such a strange emotional beats to play, like this one with Logan. He has no emotional or logical high horse to stand on(or excuse), he abandoned his best friend in his time of need and then came back to town and didn't even call him but instead went to stalk his girlfriend at her place of work for the purpose of convincing her to break up with Logan. Repeating what I said in the topic for last episode, this both show and viewer tendency to dismiss Duncan as benign boring person is so dangerous to me when I think about teenagers watching this show. The rape storyline made him a rapist(I believe not on purpose but implication is there when you put together facts of the night) but instead we are supposed to believe they just had "perfect" first time Veronica just can't remember. He literally stalks her but we are supposed to think it's romantic and sweet. He breaks up with her by ignoring her and not giving her a reason and we are supposed to believe it's justified, it's not BTW. Duncan acts as classical narcissistic abuser there, Veronica is not a person, she is thing and her emotions don't matter. Only him avoiding discomfort is important. He lies to her, dismisses her and patronises her and cheats on her(I'm calling death of an author on this one, the storyline just doesn't make sense if he didn't cheat on her Rob!) and the narrative frames it as normal and understandable. I don't mind toxic, abusive characters. I don't even mind toxic, abusive ships but please, acknowledge the wrongness in the narrative.

I disagree that they need to become different people, if I thought that I would never, ever ship them. They need to go to therapy and learn to deal with things in a healthy way. They don't need to become different people, who they are is compatible. BTW in the movie it's obvious they both went through a lot of therapy and they didn't change who they are as people, they work because they both grew up and healed from the tragedy that was her teen years/90% of his life. Your comments at times make me think you don't understand the way storytelling works. Btw I never said that Duncan would be convicted of rape(and especially not in the land of Brock Truner). That doesn't mean what he did wasn't rape. Without including spoilers for this season, we know that Veronica was unconscious before Duncan came into the room(Dick, Beaver and Sean). We know that Carrie saw them in bed and I quote:"She sad you were naked and on top of me." What in that specific wording indicates consciousness from Veronica? We know Duncan remembers everything that happened that night which indicates that he was less affected by the GHB than the considerably smaller Veronica. We know that Duncan thought Veronica was his sister. We know that Veronica was virgin with no plans to change that fact soon(Homecoming episode). We know that he literally left her unconscious on bed and ignored her when he saw her next. The only account that claims Veronica consented is Duncan and he has every reason to lie and we have every indicator that he is lying. I don't know how much you know about metabolism of GHB in human body but there is no chance that Veronica could appear even remotely sober after she already fell unconscious from the drugs. Best you can do is few seconds of half-mast eyes and slurring speech. If one person is drugged unconscious and another is drunk and wanders into the room and has sex with their unconscious body, that's rape. Having sex with unconscious person is not something you can do unknowingly. So yeah, in most jurisdictions it wouldn't come to indictment but it was still rape. That overlap of Duncan coming to The Hut and sitting in Veronica's section and reading while she was with Logan is called stalking. What would you call when and ex boyfriend of yours comes to your workplace every day for no reason and stares at you? This dismissing of Duncan's actions as benign or even desirable is a real problem for the show because they aren't. If you put it in context of real situation, it's borderline criminal. And the way he treats Veronica when they actually get together is emotionally abusive. Duncan is not just benign bland perfect boyfriend and treating him as such is a dangerous for real young women watching. As someone who still lives with her single father at 27(it's not that abnormal in Croatia), the difference between a parent and roommate is that parent is still authority to you, no matter how old you are. Even when I turned 18 my father still wanted me to let him know with who and where I'll be overnight. The roommate would only care that you aren't home that night, not where you are and what are you doing. It's not a matter of "acting like you're still fifteen" it's a matter of "I still feel responsible for your well-being and care that you are safe". When you are adult and move back in(like in the movie), it's more complicated because that authority and concern feels restricting. She moves out fast because it's easier than establishing so many new parameters to their relationship(the working together is already a large adjustment). Me and my father have readjusted to the fact that I'm an adult too by acknowledging that he can't forbid me things or punish me anymore but he has the right for explanations and opinions on my choices. Keith and Veronica are still finding their balance in the books! I can buy Aaron's situation. It's not the most realistic but it's not the biggest suspension of disbelief this show has asked of me. I think of it as: sure, Aaron has bunch of money but Kanes have more and a more direct influence on judge in the case, so Aaron gets no bail.

The stupidest part of this episode is that the writers and @Sarah D. Bunting obviously never read even the CliffsNotes for any of Jane Austen books and especially not PnP! I can't remember a single Jane Austen book where women fight over a guy, Elizabeth Bennett doesn't even want Mr. Darcy no matter that he is the richest guy available..... I forgot how much "not like other girls" misogyny this show has and Sarah you are leaning into it..... I'm with John when it comes to Duncan, he is such a shitty friend. Logan didn't kill your sister, Logan obviously hates his father so much, why would he be angry at Logan for what Aaron did?!? He obviously had some idea that Aaron was a bad guy so it's not like he has to deal with huge emotional shift from that angle. He is just a selfish user, he doesn't care about anyone but himself. I like Jackie and Tessa Thompson's acting. Although I think there is an issue with the writing, I feel like the writers were unsure about what purpose they wanted Jackie to have in the story so her characterization is all over the place. It almost feels like they change their minds every episode!

The issue with Duncan is not just wooden acting. It's absolutely horrendous writing that is ruining Veronica's character too. Duncan is never made to face any consequences for his actions. No, Sarah, it's not because he is supposed to be bland nice guy, because Duncan did maybe 2 nice things in the course of his run on the show. Then I have issue with you, @Sarah D. Bunting, totally ignoring the fact that Veronica is a rape victim! Of course, she has issues with sex! Of course, Logan would not pressure her. Everything we know about Logan tells us that he doesn't value sex very much and that he has enough of emotional intuition to know that sex is complicated for Veronica. And honey, Veronica doesn't remember her rape(and yes, Duncan did rape her, there is no other plausible explanation, but I'll save my preaching on this subject) or "sex" with Duncan, why would she treat her pathetic sex with Duncan as anything but their first time? This is not a spoiler John, I've never heard anyone think that body is Ed the driver of the bus until I listened to your podcast! I don't know why you would conclude that at all, this is on you not on @Libby521!

I learned to ignore Kitty because I want to punch her most of the time. She comments on how the girls look but her red hair with chunky blond highlights ages her like 20 years, she looks like she's in her 80s! I don't get the point of Anthony Ramos.... Why is he here? He is LA version of Neil McCoy, has nothing to offer except boring, idiotic comments....

Episode was blah and the fact that they are not acknowledging Erica's departure proves my point that all of harping on Jenna in front of the cameras is to humiliate her. When they showed us closeups and spotlights on Keyra, I didn't notice that she was particularly off or soft or that she made mistakes. Every time Judy said she was making mistakes and doesn't know the dance, she was dancing in sync and as powerful as Tara or Lauren(I'm not sure which one of them was next to her) so either they were also making mistakes or editor is blind/lazy to search for actual mistakes or Judy doesn't like Keyra and is inventing shit. To me it seems she doesn't like Keyra.... The only time in whole episode I actually saw legitimate correction for Keyra was on sharpness and making noise with the poms when she was in line with Tara and Savannah I am charmed by both Christina and Savannah but they made more mistakes than Taryn and it was not fair for them to keep two of them over Taryn. That being said, I don't know why this forum in general dislikes Christina so much, I like her and think she's pretty. Prettier than Taryn or Brennan that you all adore....

^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!! I'm sorry but entire Cowboys organization is permeated with misogyny! Cheerleaders have contracts that spell out they can't fraternize with players but players are allowed to abuse and attack women left and right and have no consequences, not to mention pursue cheerleaders that are younger and more impressionable than them! If a player wondered about the extent of his punishment or a future advancement to a assistant coach or something, he would be given an answer without a second thought. No claiming that it's toxic or selfish or self-centered! I guarantee that no player is ever given the speech about how it's an honor to just be a part of the team and to shut up like all of the girls are! Excuse me, black players are when they decide to protest racism (I forgot how "honorable" Jerry Jones is more concerned about his tax cuts than his players' rights). Let's not talk about salary and privileges. I'm an complete outsider, I live in Europe and have never even heard of DCC until I stumbled on the show online. My father likes American football so I know something about NFL, I did rhythmic gymnastic and danced through out my childhood so I know a little about dance. I don't understand how you all don't see the hypocrisy and misogyny in this situation at all. Kelli and Judy are not professional or sympathetic at all, nor is Shelly, frankly! When they give feedback, you can clearly see who they favor by the way they give clear corrections and instructions to those they like and vague comments without instructions on how to fix it to those they dislike(no matter their dance ability). Just think about all the "awkward" and "clunky" and "sloppy" comments without precise instructions on what they were doing wrong and then think about all the times girls who made the team were given instructions on how to fix their mistakes "finish your movements to the end","move your hips this way instead of this way","watch /insert veteran's name/ do it", etc. The only reason we saw Jenna's visit to the office about that text message is to humiliate and punish Jenna further and the only reason the text itself was an issue was to put Jenna and anyone who thinks about speaking up in any way at all down. There is all there is to it.....

I really disagree with you all about Jenna. I think she had every right to ask the question and Kelly was extremely unfair and pretentious toward her. Who will think about Jenna if not herself? She is a 6 year veteran, they left her in a literal limbo without any clear position and goal, she wanted to know her status, if she is permanently removed from the point, if she has a chance to win it back, what is her future goal on the team? Can she write it off completely and concentrate on her own group or does she have to concentrate on pushing for the point back? Those are not toxic or selfish questions, they are legitimate concerns.... I think Kelly can be extremely unprofessional and vague and often passive-aggressively tries to get girls to quit if she dislikes them but doesn't have a reason that will make her look good. I think that is what is happening right now and I feel for Jenna. I like Christina and am happy that she was not cut but her kicks were really bad in this scene! And KaShara is just not as good of a dancer as Jenna or Robin or Lacey no matter how darling she is, I like her personality and attitude so much but she is constantly out-danced by veterans next to her!

Hi people, I'm new here! I'm glad Brennan's gone, she looked really old compared to other girls to me and not enough of a good dancer for it to not matter. I like Savannah but she was all over the place in this episode. I love Jenna and am such a hypocrite to say that I don't care what she did, I'm hoping she is back in good standing after the talk next episode! I liked the blocking part, we've never seen it to this detail before!