HazelEyes4325

THIS! Unless there are some legal agreements in place, Delilah has all the power. All she has to do is deny Eddie is the father and--because Gary, Maggie, Rome, and Regina are all under the spell of Delilah--everyone will go along with that. I've long said Delilah expecting Eddie to give up his own child shows the depth of her cruelty. But, hey! Eddie is married to a lawyer, a lawyer who is at least open to fighting for her marriage. Also, a lawyer to whom Delilah owes, what? 18 million dollars? (I can't remember the exact number. Not that Delilah has an $18M bill--she doesn't seem to have a bill at all--but she'd be $18M poorer without Katherine). Nash has created a huge mess and, like so much going on this show, I don't have confidence that he can handle it.

Of course, we only ever saw Regina making any design decisions... Well, everyone is supposed to be at Delilah's beck and call so how dare Regina have the nerve to run a business when Delilah needed to know a song title! This doesn't bother me as much--well, it does but more like "Delilah got another guy to save her...again!" I actually think the conflict between Andrew and Regina re: the restaurant is very realistic. The restaurant business is a hard one and, frankly, there is more "business" than "restaurant" in it. Regina is a chef and, from all the yumming we've seen, apparently a good one. That doesn't mean she knows the business of running a restaurant. Remember, her last one failed. I'm telling you, Nash has been watching Mr. Mom! Vasectomies can also be reversed, not that I think that happened here, but who knows? As I said in the 02.01 thread, this whole surprise vasectomy thing makes no sense. I'm not sure if it would be better or worse if it turned out that the vasectomy failed. On one hand, that would be literal soap opera drama. On the other, it might be kind of delicious to see this all come out that Eddie is the father, have Delilah's kids turn on her, then find out that Jon is actually the father and then people are even more upset with Delilah. Basically, I need more opportunities for Delilah-induced schadenfreude in this show...

I just checked at it got a .8 last night--down from 1.0 last week. It's lead in, Grey's, got a 1.3, so that is not good for AMLT. I know that ratings are a little lower on Thursdays during football season, but the fall from last week and the loss from Grey's is hard to ignore. I actually think that, for the most part, the acting on this show is quite good. Szostak aside, who really isn't very good, the actors seems to be doing the best that they can with the crap they are given. Generally, I think a lot of what people say is "bad acting" is actually "bad writing" and/or "bad directing," which is the case here (again, except for Szostak...) I do think the lack of Jon-flashbacks is taking a lot out of this show. They didn't do a good job keeping the show focused on Jon in season 1--he sort of came and went. However, they never came up with anything to replace what was supposed to be the central event in the show, so now the whole thing seems even less anchored.

I don't think they are a good couple either and I prefer them separately. I do think both actors are capable of more than Nash gives them, but the characters just seem to bring out the worst in each other. Also, in addition to my Maggie-tantrum irritation, I resent her a bit because I think, or thought in season 1, that she usurped a lot of the story telling real estate that should have gone to Gary, Eddie, and especially Rome. The show was supposed to be about these guys who had lost their friend and, instead, we spent all this time on a woman who had never even met the guy who had died. That being said, I did find Gary easier to take in this episode, although the positives with Gary (trying to be supportive to Maggie and her mom) brought out the negative with Maggie (the tantrums). I don't think the problems came out of the blue so much as they came to a head. The point, at least as I saw it, is that Regina doesn't seem to have the business side of the restaurant business down. She's great in the kitchen, but the actual running of the establishment is not her forte. And, yeah, the restaurant has probably only been open a month or two at most. But then again, time works in mysterious ways in this show.

I tend to find Maggie very irritating at times, especially when she starts throwing her snarky temper tantrums that would be unacceptable for a tween, much less a grown woman who is a mental health professional. Still, I never found Maggie more likable than I did in this moment,,, Oh, but don't you know that Jon was at fault for the affair? That he "left" Delilah by not giving her 100% of his attention and he left her with no choice but to sleep with one of his best friends? Honestly, whenever she starts with the "It's my fault Jon is dead" line, my response is"yup"--especially since they sort of set it up like it was. Yeah, he had his financial woes and the survivor's guilt that came out of nowhere, but he also saw his wife and his friend at dinner the night before, so... But now that Delilah has forgiven herself, I guess we should all just forget about it? I found Gary less annoying in this episode, but the coat thing was still...odd. And wrong. Also, he has a pretty amazing apartment for a cube dweller who never goes to work.

While there are things that I like about this show, I have a feeling it is not long for this world. Kal Penn is more adept at a sitcom than I thought he would be and I love Hakim and Grizelda, but nothing else really worked today. The Crazy Rich Asians don't make any sense and are so far into the cliche that they just don't work and the young guy seems to be in another show. Sigh...

First of all, I like that they have been changing up the opening credits. Adding the rest of the cast makes the show not quite so Sheldon-Centric, despite the title. Also, if they change it up every week it will be a fun little touch. I really thought this episode was going to go dark with George and Mary, so I'm glad the date took a turn for the better. However, I have to say I'm on George's side about who should deal with Sheldon at school. It's NOT because I think that Mary's job is less worthwhile than George's, instead two things stood out for me. The school is George's place of employment, so he has to limit his "parent" role in that arena. Secondly, George had a concrete task (football practice) in 10 minutes; Mary was giving dating advice to the pastor. The truth is, one of those was more professionally important than the other. If Mary was in some sort of meeting or doing some actual church work, I'd feel differently about it. But, yeah, Mary definitely doesn't seem as invested in her marriage as George, which I found surprising but I think it is an interesting road to take. Also, Missy + Georgie + Ouija Board = Everything.

I'm still really enjoying this show and I liked the addition of the sister (although I'm not sure if I'd want to see her every week). Man, it really doesn't seem like Wade is ready to be dating. Or using social media. I mean, I think the re-entry to that world is hard, but I think I would like to see him step in and out of it for a while so that it doesn't become the dominant story line of the show. I think there is enough with him and his daughters to keep the show going.

Well, it looks like the Beatification of St. Delilah is still in effect. Man, everything with her was so....eye-rolly! I'm glad she now realizes that Jon was in pain and she should have asked him about it. You know what else she should have done? Stayed out of Eddie's pants! Actually, it is a bit worse than that because, from what little we've seen of how that whole mess started, Delilah was the instigator of it. But now she's forgiven herself so it's all good! Right? Although the fact that Charlie would cry whenever Delilah held her was amusing..I mean, that baby had better get used to that. The thing is, the best parts of this show could survive easily, and probably be improved, if Delilah weren't part of it. All this stuff with Eddie and Katherine? It actually doesn't need a baby--it could have all happened if Eddie had taken up with anyone and Katherine found out about the affair. Speaking of which, I have only a slightly smaller lack of confidence that Nash will handle that story line appropriately than I do about the Rome and Regina baby drama. And the only reason that gaping lack is slightly smaller is that I think there is more of a demand from the audience to see Eddie and Katherine's reconciliation (or not) story than they are to see Rome and Regina's baby story. I have to echo @Lady Calypso that David Giuntoli and Grace Park are really excelling here. It's just too bad that they are stuck with all the other crap in this show as they both deserve much better. I know that Katherine is now going to be expected to be part of the friend group, which is so beyond unbelievable. I mean, she's perfectly within her rights to say, "I don't want to take you away from your friends, but I do need to have some space from them for a while." Or, instead of friends, just Delilah. She *cannot* be expected to be buddy buddy with the woman who slept with her husband and supposedly had his baby. Also, it now seems that everyone knows that Katherine knows and she left (based on the fact that Maggie was going to let Eddie stay at her apartment if/when Katherine came back), I'm thinking about Regina. Regina is the one who told Katherine that the baby was Jon's. Regina did not lie as she spoke what she believed was the truth, but she must realize that she did pass along Delilah's deception. So, she must realize that she's ensnared in this mess that Delilah made and did play a part, although inadvertently, in the pain that Katherine is going though. Since she seems to want to be friends with Katherine, so I can't see how she doesn't feel some sort of something over this. I'm not sure if we are supposed to like Andrew or not, but I like him. And, in the restaurant business, I'm on Team Andrew. I'm sorry, but we saw Regina having a phone conversation about a title of a song with Delilah while she was backed up in the kitchen and then, later, had an entire conversation about Delilah's delayed-onset guilt while people were waiting for their omelets. Andrew is right...Regina doesn't seem to realize what needs to be done to successfully run a restaurant. He also has a financial interest in the restaurant, so it isn't out of line for him to directly address the problems when Regina is not receptive. That being said, I feel like this is one big cliche that women can't be trusted to run things and men have to come in and fix things. Of course, that seems to be Nash's MO for this entire show. And the only reason I'm okay with him being romantically linked with Delilah is, well, better him than some other guy that Delilah might set her eyes on. I do hope that PJ doesn't end up being Jon's son. For one thing, that would just give Delilah another reason to excuse her behavior. Secondly, it's so freaking, well, lazy in the story telling department. I mean, what's wrong with PJ learning that the man he calls his dad is not his dad, but some guy who died on 9/11 is? Also, I really don't care about PJ's story line. As for Jason Ritter, he's so charming but, again, I do not care if he's Delilah's mom's boy toy or her long lost son we'd never known about or her hair dresser. It's just more melodrama that this show doesn't need. I will have to say that my favorite part of the show was when they were at the psychic's and it turned out that it wasn't actually all about Delilah! That should happen more often! ETA: When is this episode supposed to take place? I mean, everyone is walking around in heavy coats (and Gary is trying to steal coats?) and then Theo is running around in a swim suit while Eddie aims the hose at him. I'm so confused... I took that as one of those "nice things" you say about babies when you are visiting the widow of your dead husband's friend, but I guess it could be foreshadowing. I mean, the failed vasectomy line worked for Victor Newman in the early 80's Y&R, so why not recycle it here. From what I've seen on social media, the Eddie/Delilah baby thing is pretty unpopular and sympathy is definitely with Katherine. Since we are all supposed to ADORE Delilah, Nash might be trying to get himself out of the mess he created.

I figured out Laila Ali from just the clues clip, which has never happened for me. And, because of the false confidence that has given me, I feel okay going out on a limb and saying I think the Leopard might be Boy George.

I was chatting with a friend who dumped this show in season 1 (because of Delilah), but ended up watching this episode (because her dog was asleep on her lap while she was watching Grey's and she couldn't reach the remote). She brought another issue up that makes Jon's vasectomy even more perplexing. It would be hard to believe that Jon had a vasectomy without Delilah knowing about it. If that were the case, she would have been on more reliable birth control, thinking that pregnancy with her husband would still be possible. So, making the very safe assumption that she did know, that makes her willingness to get pregnant so perplexing. What if Jon hadn't died? How would she have explained this pregnancy to him? I suppose that she could have used it as her ticket out, but she didn't know she was pregnant when she kind of sort of tried to leave him. There is no way she could have convinced him the baby was his, short of forcing him to watching the scenes in Mr. Mom where Michael Keaton's character becomes obsessed with The Young and the Restless and the early 80's story line where Victor's vasectomy didn't take (and how sad is it that THAT is what I remember from that movie?) My friend also complained that everyone's (except Katherine's) reaction to Eddie being the father was beyond unbelievable. There are two ways they should be upset: One is the "refresher" that Delilah cheated on Jon and the other is that Delilah lied to all of them AGAIN. And, keep in mind, *she* didn't come clean about it and, if Gary hadn't known about the convenient vasectomy and Eddie hadn't gone into the delivery room, Delilah would have been able to keep the lie alive. There are so many strands in this show that don't make any sense. I know that there are very few broadcast shows that aren't a bit sloppy, but Nash is one of the sloppiest showrunners I've run across in a long time. Oh, and my friend says she's going to make sure she keeps the remote nearby from now on...

Checking this out, I think they might try to write the middle two as twins, although now that I know the age range of the actresses (and Jim Gaffigan's family!), I'm no longer saying it's mathematically impossible for them all to come from one mother. My new issue is the names, all starting with L. It is probably my addled mind, but that's going to get in the way of my knowing which on is which. Of course, that won't be an issue if the daughters continue to always be in sort of a group, as they were in this episode. And, if they do start giving individual story lines, I *might* be able to keep straight which name goes with each girl.

Thank you for the info. Also, I now realize that I will never remember which girl goes with which name...

Well, 4 kids between the ages on 9-14 is certainly doable, so I will quit questioning it, even if her kids are a 9 year old and three other girls who could all be the same person in my eyes. Just out of curiosity, is that the age of actresses playing the girls or is there some place where the characters' ages are cited? I think it is reasonable to accept that the actresses are playing girls who are their own ages, but I wonder it might still end up that not all her girls are singletons. Another point: I strongly doubt that her financial troubles are student loans. I don't doubt that she has student loans, but the phone call certainly sounded like her financial woes were something else. But hey, it's the first episode--hopefully it comes up again instead of just being dropped, as so many shows do.

Once I realized that all four girls were her kids, I didn't have a problem with it. She said she was a lapsed Catholic, but we don't know much more than that. It could have been she was devout to the point that she didn't use birth control until after she had kids (and then maybe she became disillusioned when her husband left to climb mountains without her? I don't know--just spitballing here). The kid issue is definitely one for her--"George" was tormenting her with her C-section scar and Townsend (or was it the guy in jail? I can't remember) taunted her with something she had said to her psychiatrist about wishing her girls were dead. What I did have a problem with was that I'm not sure how all those 4 kids could be hers. I mean, unless there is a set of twins, or maybe even triplets, in there, I'm not sure how--mathematically--she could have given birth to them all. The youngest one is definitely younger, but the other three all seem about the same age, or close enough that even being Irish Twins would be hard to believe.

I finished The Secrets We Kept last night and enjoyed it, but probably would have enjoyed it more if I had read (or seen) Dr. Zhivago. The narration was a little tricky to get into but, once I figured it out, I found it very effective. Now, I'm switching between The Alice Network and The Last Train to London. I kind of wish I was reading two other books because two WWII themed novels is a bit much, but I'm at the mercy of library due dates. I'm also juggling two audiobooks: Daisy Jones and the Six and Shortest Way Home (Pete Buttigieg's memoir). Both are quite good, although I think it is more the performance value than the story with Daisy Jones.

There are definitely zealots out there--I encountered more than a few of them. It's just that it is rare that they are employed as lactation consultants. No hospital administration would stand for a patient being treated like that for long. You are more likely to find them in some sort of private employment (running support groups that might be associated with a hospital or clinic) or in the La Leche League. To be fair, though, I have a friend who was the head of the local LLL when I had my babies and she was nothing like that, although many in the group were. My problem with it is this: Every show on television, streaming, etc has some level of responsibility. You can't present something like this that basically maligns an entire profession, one that women will encounter in one of their most vulnerable hours. Yeah, it does happen--but it is the exception, not the rule. This show, which markets to a female audience, just put something out there that is not only not true, but also breeds distrust among its audience. If Nash wanted to show that some women are judged for not breastfeeding, have Delilah go to a LLL meeting, or really any mommy group. I also don't know why we even needed this story line. To show how horrible it is for Delilah to be judged? Trust me, Delilah is judged for a lot of things. Not being able to breast feed is probably the one thing that the audience doesn't judge her for. And, if it was all a ploy to garner sympathy for Delilah, it didn't work...

They didn't (but she did sleep with her co-worker once) and I really can't believe that Nash would be so stupid to bring in *another* pregnancy (please don't make me eat my words). I mean, for it to happen they would have to make Katherine as stupid as Delilah and that WOULD be character assassination. What wouldn't surprise me is if it comes out that Katherine wasn't able to have kids after Theo. I honestly don't think something like that is necessary to make this story work. but Nash loves to overdo things.

I finally got my husband to sit down long enough so that we could watch this last night. I liked it--it was smarter than I expected and my husband appreciated that they took both the "faith" and the "science" sides with equal measure. I have a little trouble buying the actress who plays Kristen, but that was a small enough irritation (and Mike Colter is yummy enough) for me to ignore it. We'll definitely be back for more with this one.

Maggie has Metastatic Breast Cancer, right? From what I understand (from too many friends going through it), you are never "cancer free" with that--you can go into remission, but that doesn't mean you are "cancer free." Also, aren't patients with MBC on medication (a low-dose chemo?) for the rest of their lives? Seriously, this show in one directly after Grey's, which is far from accurate but still better than this.. ETA: Well, color me shocked. I've been wracking my brain since watching this about why the actress who played the lactation consultant was so familiar...although apparently not enough to look it up. However, something else was important enough for me to pull up IMDB, so I checked this and it's Jo from Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce!

Perhaps I'm being too much of a Katherine-apologist here, but it really seemed to me that she was truly in the midst of a breakdown. I mean, she was not functioning at all. She went from a capable woman who handled the initial shock of her husband cheating on her in a way that she was still able to keep her life as a mother and as a lawyer going to a woman who ran home to lie in the fetal position on her childhood bed. Yeah, she left Theo, but she was not able at that point to even care for herself. The fact that she took the effort to make sure he was cared for before she left was kind of amazing, considering the state she was in. I mean, I'm the first to call out the myriad shortcomings of Nash's writing, but I just don't feel this was character assassination. I only hope that they allow Katherine to rise out from this point and not just make her some sort of prop for more Delilah crap.

The bolded part of that is so, so wrong and yet so, so accurate! Yes, if you name a character Delilah, she should be a Delilah. You can't name a character, say, Scarlet and expect her to be introverted wallflower or another character Adolf and have him be a humanitarian. There are certain names, only a few but "Delilah" is really on that list, where the name encapsulates the character. Or it should. It doesn't here, but Delilah might be more realistic if she were an actual Delilah.

Right, her kids have their material needs met and she does provide emotional support when it is easy (if not, she calls in Gary). I don't question that she loves her kid as far as she can love anyone besides herself, but it isn't a selfless love. Actually, I really think they shouldn't let Nash give interviews without some adult supervision.

There is some discussion about Delilah over in the 02.01 thread, about what kind of person she is and why. Since my comments are more wide-ranging than that episode, I thought I would move them over here. Honestly, I think Delilah is an overgrown Princess. She was probably indulged by her parents and whenever anything went wrong, Daddy (remember him? The person for whom she is the caregiver but we've only seen him once and was never mentioned outside that episode?) came in to fix it. Because of that, that is what she expects out of life and she has surrounded herself with people who will fill that role. And, if you step out of your role, she wants you out of her life. Jon very much seemed to be her dream spouse in that he was very giving to those around him. His fatal flaw (pun intended) was that there were too many people around him and he couldn't give Delilah what she felt she deserved. So she took it--from someone else's husband. I'm not in the camp that Delilah is a stellar parent--whenever any actual parenting needs to take place, she calls one of her friends to come do it. Usually Gary, but more recently Rome and Regina are called on more. Nash said in an interview--because apparently reading all his interviews is a pre-req for watching this show since that is where he gives all his backstory--Katherine and Delilah used to be best friends. So what happened? Did Katherine say no to her? Katherine was struggling to be there for her husband and son, so she obviously couldn't lavish all her attention on Delilah. Look, I get the Princess thing--I don't condone it, but it happens a lot with kids (usually girls, but I've seen some boys with it too). But here's the thing, at some point life intervenes and these people have to take responsibility for their own lives...unless the princess complex goes deep and morphs into something else, in which case they become something like Delilah.

I agree with you. Once Delilah decided to allow herself to get pregnant, she really had 2 choices: 1 - Tell the truth to everyone 2 - Lie to everyone Instead, she chose this weird 3rd option where she told Eddie (and apparently, the magic time machine went back to make sure that Jon had a vasectomy and that Gary knew *all along,* which was clearly not the case in season 1). So, now Eddie has to be burdened with her secret AND has to keep this secret from everyone AND give up his own child. The best option, other than Delilah being responsible and not getting pregnant in the first place, would have been her to just be honest and to face up to the consequences of her actions. To me, telling Eddie was just another layer of cruelty. If she was going to lie, she might as well just have lied to him as well. And, no, I don't think the hit is as big as ABC thinks. The rating were not great until they moved to after Grey's and I'm sure that is what saved it for season 2--and will probably allow them to keep up this level of drivel for a season 3. But, I read somewhere...I wish I could find that article...the social media reach of the show is not at all where it should be for show like this.