IntrovertGal

Spot on opinion column by Dan Reed: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/10/dan-reed-shocked-those-wont-accept-michael-jackson-abuser

I finished watching part 2 of Leaving Neverland last night and it is truly one of the most upsetting and disturbing documentaries I‘ve ever seen. Part 1 was already heartbreaking, but part 2 was even more devastating. There is no doubt in my mind that Wade and James are telling the truth. The pain of what they have been through is written all over their faces. James especially just seems so fragile and broken. The scene in part 1 where he showed the jewellery Michael Jackson had given him (including a „wedding ring“ FFS) and his hands were shaking broke my heart. I commend Wade and James for being brave enough to speak out, knowing that they would face the backlash from delusional MJ super fans. One of the things that disgusted me the most while watching this documentary was the parents ‘complicity and gullibility, especially the mothers‘. They failed miserably in their most important job: protecting their children. I cannot believe how starstruck, greedy and clueless the mothers were (or so they claim), basically pimping out their sons for a nice hotel suite and other luxurious gifts MJ showered them with. And as truly revolting and horrifying as it is, I think the documentary did a great job in showing how a sexual predator like MJ groomed both his victims and their families. Buying the parents off, driving a wedge between the boys and their parents, telling the little boys they would all go to jail for life if anyone found out about the abuse, showering the boys with friendship and affection and then withholding such affection making the boys feel jealous of their competitors, telling these young boys that having sex was how you showed your love, etc. etc. - it‘s just all so sick. No wonder Wade and James struggle with the abuse to this day and that they have not forgiven their mothers. Personally, I‘m done with Michael Jackson for good. Enough is enough!

What a devastating episode! I was yelling at Roger not to turn back and save himself but I guess that's not in Roger's character, he is a good guy and while his mercy killing of the priest had devastating consequences (which he couldn't have anticipated), he at least ended the priest's suffering. Very powerful and moving stuff! Fergus and Marsali were awesome as the husband and wife team who rescued Murtagh. More of their sweet relationship please! I'm much more invested in them than in Roger and Brianna. Like cardigirl, I expected Brianna's prison visit to Bonnet to be more dramatic. And Bonnet totally freed himself and got away before the explosion right? So annoying that we are not rid of the raping bastard yet. He deserved to be burnt alive. John Grey was being an awesome friend to Brianna, even though she really did not deserve it after how she treated him in the last episode. Still, I love that he is so noble and good and even covered for Fergus, Murtagh, etc. Brianna's little smile after John Grey lied to the policemen was great. The middle part of the episode with Roger and the priest dragged a bit and I missed Jamie and Claire. I cannot believe that next week it's already the finale. Overall, this was a rather uneven season for me and definitely not my favourite. Still, there was good stuff in it and I'm not looking forward to Droughtlander.

Very well put and I couldn't agree more! Brianna's behaviour was despicable indeed and I felt so bad for Lord John. He proved once again what a good guy he is when he saved her at the end (even though she really did not deserve it) by agreeing to marry her after all. Not having read the fourth book, I was surprised how reckless Lord John was with his nightly hook-up (although apparently that doesn't happen in the book?). On the other hand, good for him for getting some. Like AD55, I really wish that he could get over Jamie and fall in love with a guy who loves him back. As they said in the after the episode thingy, he really is such a tragic character and I want so badly for him to find some happiness.

I totally agree with the bolded part. There was sexual tension between Adam and Eric from the very first time they interacted. I hope Netflix will renew this show for a second season and Adam will come back from military school so that their story can continue. Loved their scene in class after their hook-up when they kept inching closer and closer to each other so they could touch. I ended up enjoying this show quite a lot. There were a few scenes in the early episodes that I didn't like all that much but the second half of the season was much better and by the end I was properly invested. My favourite characters are Maeve and Eric and I thought both actors did a great job with their respective roles.

Despite the absence of Claire and Jamie, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed this episode. Well, I liked Brianna's part, I didn't really care about Roger's adventures at sea (but then again I had the same problem during the sea adventures in Voyager / season 3). I agree with others here that Sophie's acting has improved, there were some glimpses of genuine feelings in Brianna in this episode, so well done. The highlight of this episode for me were the father and daughter scenes between Frank and Brianna, which surprised me because I was never a big Frank fan. However, it was nice to see Tobias Menzies (and his superior acting skills) again and he made Frank very sympathetic in this episode and the father/daughter bond was lovely to see. I'm also intrigued by how much Frank actually knew about Claire's time travels but I think CarpeFelis is right about the double whammy of Frank discovering that Claire told the truth and that she would go back to Jamie and eventually die. No wonder Frank was so depressed in that scene! It was too bad that Brianna couldn't meet her aunt Jenny due to the actress not being available. But at least she got to meet Ian and is now on her way to her parents. I'm really looking forward to Brianna meeting Jamie for the first time and hope it will happen soon (next week?). Good to know that Laoghaire is still as nuts and evil as ever, LOL. It was crazy how quickly she changed from kind and maternal to revenge-driven lunatic! I mean, yeah, Jamie treated her shabbily but that was years ago, shouldn't she be over it by now?

I totally agree! I really loved this episode. Lord John and David Berry make everything better. This is the first episode this season that I actually want to rewatch. The scenes between Claire and Lord John were fantastic and just full of so much pain. I especially loved the scene bolded above and I didn't think of Lady Gaga at all until coming here. David Berry expressed so much with that whispered "So was I", it broke my heart. I also liked that Lord John told Claire about the time when he could have had Jamie in return for looking after Willie; it's about time Claire knew about that, even if it was sort of a brutal way of finding out. I haven't read the fourth book yet (but don't mind being spoiled) so I don't know if Jamie ever told Claire about that in the book. Lord John confessing to Claire that he is still in love with Jamie, Claire confessing to Lord John that she was envious of their time together and the two of them reaching a sort of truce at the end and Claire wishing him love - all wonderful scenes that I look forward to rewatching. Jamie getting to spend some quality time with his son was great as well, even if Willie (sorry William) is a brat. The last scene with William looking back was lovely in giving Jamie some hope that he will see his son again. Oh and I loved the romantic ending with the bath and Jamie giving Claire the new ring. This was not an action-packed episode but a rather quiet and character-driven one and personally I loved how all these interpersonal relationships got explored.

I think I'm gonna like this season more than last season, which granted is not that difficult because I loathed season 3. So glad the French professor and Noah's prison guard are no longer on the show, such a relief. It's interesting to see the characters in a new environment although I'm looking forward to seeing Montauk again as well (next week hopefully?). Does anyone else suspect that Noah is gonna have an affair with the vice principal? Helen's therapist cracked me up, are West Coast therapists really like that? I'm interested in Trevor's coming out storyline and I couldn't believe Helen when she blamed Trevor being gay on Noah and his being absent. Apparently, Helen does really not know how sexuality works. Maybe she is not so okay with her son being gay as she claims to be. I agree with @KBrownie, it is such a cliché that Alison is the one that's missing and of course Noah and Cole would only interact with each other if something happened to Alison. I'm not really looking forward to that particular storyline and to more misadventures of Alison, the drama queen. *sigh*

What a sad but also hopeful ending to this complex and often tough to watch show! I teared up several times, especially during the scene when Patrick finally plucked up his courage and told his mother that his father had raped him only to have his heart broken again by her response. You could tell that Patrick was so hoping that his mother would for once have empathy for him, put him first and be appalled on his behalf, but sadly he was disappointed yet again. It was so brave on Patrick's part to finally say those words to his mother though, I was proud of him. I also cheered when he went back to the hospital and continued his rehab. He deserved that round of applause. My heart also broke for Patrick at the funeral when all these people were praising Eleanor's innocence and child-like behaviour when she failed in her most important job as a mother: to protect her son. I'm glad Patrick addressed it and didn't whitewash her character and and I completely understood that he couldn't finish his speech. Benedict's acting throughout the episode was masterful again, I couldn't imagine another actor playing this role so brilliantly. I loved how Patrick's son Robert didn't give up on his father and what he said to him at the funeral. I'm only halfway through the second book but I'm already looking forward to reading the last one and maybe learning a bit more about Patrick's redemption. Ending the show on one of the most beautiful Blur songs ("Tender") was a stroke of genius and added to the hopeful vibe at the end.

Agreed. If the writers hadn't chosen to end season 2 with all these cliffhangers, then the show should have ended with the season 2 finale. However, since I hate it when shows end on cliffhangers, I'm glad we will get a third season which will hopefully properly wrap all the open storylines and find a fitting ending for the show. I guess season 2 wasn't really necessary in the first place but I still enjoyed watching it. Not everything worked (ghost Hannah being the biggest failure IMO) but I loved that there was much more a sense of community and friendship in season 2. In season 1 every character was so isolated and now they have all come a bit closer together. Plus I never imagined that a brotherly relationship between Clay and Justin could work but it really did and was one of the highlights of season 2 for me. I also enjoyed season 2 because of the actors' performances. In particular, Alisha Boe, Dylan Minnette, Miles Heizer, Brandon Flynn, Kate Walsh and Derek Luke all did a fine job with their respective roles. So let's hope that season 3 will provide a satisfying ending. There really shouldn't be a season 4.

13 Reasons Why has been renewed for a third season: http://tvline.com/2018/06/06/13-reasons-why-renewed-season-3-watch-video-2019/

Agreed! The only remotely likeable adult person in this episode was Eleanor's friend Anne (oh and possibly the housekeeper) but she also did not do enough to help poor Patrick. Even though the child actor playing young Patrick does not resemble Cumberbatch in the slightest, I think he did a good job conveying how broken and frightened he was. David Melrose is a true monster, a despicable person without an ounce of empathy, and even though Eleanor seems to love her son her inability to protect him and her cowardice are inexcusable. At least the episode ended on a hopeful note with adult Patrick coming to the end of his withdrawal. Next week's episode looks to be more Cumberbatch-centric again.

Benedict Cumberbatch's performance was a revelation, a true masterclass in acting. The show is hard to watch at times but really well done so I will definitely stick with it. Plus being a huge Cumberbatch fan obviously helps. I was surprised that despite all the horrible things happening this episode was still so unexpectantly funny at times. I have never read the books but this episode inspired me to order them rightaway.

I can't believe that the writers actually had Simon say that it was only a matter of time until he sleeps with Jace. ;) The Jimon fan fiction writers are going to have a field day. I enjoyed this second episode a lot more than the season premiere, which I thought was a bit lacklustre. So much to like in this second episode though: from the awkward double date to Malec being all domestic and then going on a mission together, Jace and Clary going on a date together, this is the stuff I want to see. I loved Jace calling Simon for restaurant advice but did not appreciate Jace just hanging up on him, so rude. Alec being so comfortable in his own skin and even flirting with the new High Warlock a little bit to distract him was great to see. He really has come a long way from the closeted guy he was in season 1. Malec seems to be stronger than ever right now and it's so nice to see the boys just being happy, after all the drama they went through. However, knowing this show, it probably won't last. It was also lovely seeing Jace's emotional side in this episode. His heartfelt speech to Clary was very moving and Dom did a good job conveying all the emotions. Also kudos to the show using Emmit Fenn's beautiful song "Blinded" in that scene. Having read the books, I was not surprised by what happened at the end with Simon's mark. Still, it was cool to see it on screen and I'm curious if the writers will continue to follow the books in this respect or if they will put their own spin on it. So Sebastian is gonna be back next week? Awesome! I love Will Tudor's portrayal of the character.

Holy crap, what an episode! I haven't always enjoyed season 4, but this episode was one of the best of the entire show. For once I liked every single storyline. I was so worried that Jamal would fall off the wagon (well he did a bit with the booze), so glad that he didn't take the pills. Loved Jamal and Hakeem's song and their brotherly bonding, their relationship is one of the best things in this show for me. Now let's hope that Warren will do as he said and get Jamal out of this mess with the cops. If the show decides it's a good idea to send Jamal to prison, I'm gonna be so pissed off. But hopefully it won't come to that. And wow, I totally did not see the Pamela isn't real reveal coming! At first when there was no body, I thought Thirsty had somehow snuck in and removed the body. But when there was no bullet hole in the window, that did not make sense any longer. In hindsight, I guess it could have been figured out that Pamela wasn't real because Andre has had hallucinations before, but still I never thought of that, so well done writers. I guess Andre's guilt over what he did to his father plus the wrong meds the crooked shrink was prescribing him totally screwed up Andre's mind. Trai really knocked it out of the park during that last scene, that was some incredible acting.

Once again the show cuts scenes I was most looking forward to, i.e. Lord John giving Jamie the miniature portrait of Willie, Lord John and Jamie embracing and the long conversation Claire and Lord John had at the ball. Now I realise the show writers couldn't have included all of this because Jamie already told Claire about Willie (how I regret they made that decision now!) but they could still have included Lord John giving Jamie the picture and the embrace. Once again I was utterly disappointed by the show writers's decision to cut stuff that I love. First the kiss between Jamie and Lord John and now this. At least we got see some long and longing (on Lord John's part) looks between them, which Claire certainly picked up on. All in all there was not enough Lord John in this episode. However, David Berry still knocked it out of the park in the scenes he was given. Still, I guess I will have to resign myself to the fact that the show will never get certain scenes (especially involving Lord John) right and not to have any expectations in the future. Other than that, I thought it was a thrilling episode, a lot happened and was revealed and I was not bored once second. The blood bath was extremely icky, but I loved seeing Geillis again, even if she is more nuts than ever. The looks between Jamie and Claire at the ball when they were remembering their younger days when they couldn't keep their hands off each other were extremely hot! More of that please. I have to agree with others here, Jamie's wig was absolutely terrible. I laughed out loud when I first saw him in it. The slave market was incredibly hard to watch, as was hearing Claire tell Jamie that it would take decades/a century for slavery to end. Now please excuse me while I go reread chapter 59 ("In Which Much Is Revealed").

The first half hour really dragged for me, I wish they had cut it a bit. Plus ants and a snake? Ewwww! But the second half was really good. I loved Jamie giving Fergus his name and the looks full of emotion the two exchanged, that made me tear up and was my favourite scene of the whole episode. I also loved the beach reunion and the turtle soup scene. It was so nice to finally have an episode ending with Jamie and Claire being happy and having sex and not being in danger and/or apart. The conversation between Claire and Marsali about having sex without getting pregnant was also good. Now hopefully we will see Lord John already in next week's episode, I cannot wait.

Ah okay, thanks. I don't follow the show spoilers all that closely so I missed that. Very happy and relieved that LJG will show up again later this season.

Can you tell me to which previews you are referring?

I have watched this episode several times now and I still tear up each time, especially during the Kevin and Jack scene in the hospital scene, during Kevin's monologue on the football field and and when he is breaking down in Charlotte's garden asking for help. Kevin has always been one of my favourite characters so I of course absolutely loved this episode. Yes the whole film star hooked on painkillers thing is a cliché but I don't mind it if we get to see such a powerful performance from Justin Hartley. I don't know, I have always felt closest to Kevin, he is the character I can relate to the most. I just hope that he is still willing to deal with his addiction in the next episode and doesn't hide it from Randall, his family, Sophie, etc. and he doesn't keep on using because of Kate's miscarriage. I kinda hate that the writers did it this way, the timing of it all sucks.

I fully expected this episode to be boring, but I have to say I was more gripped than I would have thought. Kudos to the writers of the show for making this part of the book more interesting on screen. I think it definitely helped that we didn't only see Claire's perspective but also switched to Jamie and Fergus' storyline. I'm glad that Fergus kept a cool head and didn't carry out Jamie's harebrained plan. I totally agree with you though about being disappointed in Lord John Grey being cut out. I was waiting for him to show up throughout the episode as well. I guess we will only see him again in Jamaica? The writers'd better not cut that out as well!

I finally got around to watching this episode and loved it! So much better than the last two episodes, the show really has found its groove again. I felt both Jamie and Claire were much more in character and their chemistry was also more palpable. I love Jenny, she is awesome even though she meddles way too much. I almost teared up when she called Claire her sister and seeing Jenny so hurt by Claire's abandonment broke my heart. On the other hand I had to chuckle when she threw water over Jamie and Claire and stopped their lovemaking. Leghair was annoying as usual but they did a great job casting her daughters. Seeing Jamie being a father to the girls was lovely. Also, Young Ian's hero worship of both Jamie and Claire is so endearing. I'm so happy and relieved that the last episode taking place in Scotland was such a great one which really delivered. I'm gonna miss Scotland so much and I'm really not looking forward to the high jinks on the high seas and in Jamaica. Apart from Claire and Jamie's love story, Scotland and its fascinating history were big reasons for me to read the books. One of the few things I'm really looking forward to for the rest of the season is Claire meeting Lord John and the reunion of Jamie and Lord John later on.

Agreed. I was mostly bored while watching this episode. The only thing I enjoyed was the bromance between Fergus and Young Ian. The rest was very meh. So that's two episodes in a row that I found lacking. The print shop episode was disappointing for me (maybe my expectations were just too high) and this episode had way too much plot (plus it was stuff that I didn't find particularly interesting in the book either) and not enough character moments / character development. Hopefully, the show will get its groove back next week.

I respectfully disagree. I have always loved that scene (including the kiss) in the book because to me it signified that Jamie overcame his prejudice towards gay men (which cannot have been easy given that Jamie is a man of his times and the horrible rape he suffered at the hand of BJR) because he recognised that Lord John was a true friend to him, especially after Lord John turned down Jamie's offer of sex in payment for looking after Willie. So to me, the kiss felt like Jamie's way of conveying all that to Lord John. I never thought that Jamie was bisexual and if those fans who think that Jamie is bisexual are really the reason that Ron Moore & co. left out the kiss, I think that's a shame. IMO show runners shouldn't be swayed by fandom that much, however passionate it may be (if indeed that was the reason, maybe the podcast on this episode will give more insight on that issue).

I just watched it and loved it, especially the Helwater scenes. Seeing Jamie being a father to Willie was so bittersweet and the ending broke my heart and made me tear up. So happy they kept the stinking Papist scene, I loved that in the book and they brought it to the screen brilliantly. Sam was just fantastic in all of his scenes with Willie. I'm very glad that they changed the sex scene between Jamie and Geneva and left out the rape-y undertones. Geneva was well cast, the actress did a good job of showing the character's spoilt and bratty side. I also liked that they showed Isobel knowing that Willie was Jamie's son and telling him so, as far as I remember she didn't in the book. However, I'm extremely disappointed that TPTB chose to leave out the kiss between Jamie and Lord John, I was so looking forward to that, especially with the crazy hot chemistry between Sam Heughan and David Berry. I don't really understand why they chose to leave it out either, they have never been prudish before. :( Other than that, all the Jamie and Lord John scenes were perfect, often with dialogue taken word for word from Voyager. I also loved that we got to see Lord John and Hal and Jamie on screen together, that was great.