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ProfCrash

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Everything posted by ProfCrash

  1. I cannot find that Deep Dive on YouTube. I am in Rob Has a Pdocast right now and I see the 5 hour long one with Maryanne but the Omar one is not there.
  2. Drea and Maryann both said that they didn't see anyone playing as racist. They both stated that they have the baggage that comes with being Black and their response was driven by their past experiences, a knowledge of how things have played out in the past for Black players (when they were voted out and how they were portrayed), as well as their understanding of systemic racism. That informed their reaction. You can choose to accept their words or not but that is what they said. Drea was the target for the night, because of her advantages. She sensed something was up, she said so in a confessional before the tribal. So she was on edge. Drea's number one, Rocksroy, was blindsided. Heck the whole second tribe was shocked to see Rocksroy was there. It is easy to see that there was a confluence of events. Surprises in the game and the knowledge of Survivor history and real history for Black people. I think people know my thoughts on this so I'll stop kicking a dead horse.
  3. I am listening to Rob has a Pod Cast today and Stephen just made a good point. Mike is the smaller target in all of his alliances and sub alliances. Hai and Jonathon are Mike's closest allies and both are bigger targets than Mike. Toss in Mike's less strategic reasons for voting people off and I can see him 1) making it to the final tribal 2) getting no votes or a vote from Jonathon. I am more curious how Maryann makes it to the final tribal. I wonder if Jonathon is really the person at the bottom of the Orange alliance because of his lack of strategic play and his unwillingness to listen to Lyndsey. I can see Lyndsey and Omar working with Maryann because she is more flexible and strategic and seen as less of a challenge threat. Omar probably gets caught with all of his scheming. I can see Maryann being flexible about who she works with so she moves around a good amount. I can see Maryann and Lyndsey working together. I can also see people viewing Mike, Romeo, and Jonathon as goats. Mike has two shields in Jonathon and Hai. Mike's emotional style of play makes people see him as a goat so he gets through. Romeo entered the merge with few allies, really no allies. He has done a lot of scrambling and is playing a more chaotic game. That is normally not appreciated. I can see him as a goat. Jonathon has been a provider and impressive in challenges pre merge. We have not seen quite the same skill in challenges post merge. He finished second two episodes ago and won this episode but that challenge lasted under 5 minutes. The seas were rough, most everyone was done by the 2 minute mark. He had a good away to balance but I am not sure with calmer water that he outlasts others, especially as the steps get smaller. Even with his challenge wins, current and potential, his strategic game has been a fail and I am not so sure that his social game has been all that great after the merge. I think his performance at tonight's tribal does not help him. So I can see him having very real goat traits. The order now is supposed to be Hai, Drea, Omar, Lyndsey, Jonathon. Hai makes sense, I am guessing Mike is pissed that Hai switched to vote from Romeo to Rocksroy. No idea why Mike voted with Hai on that, I bet that costs him a vote from Rocksroy at Final Tribal because Rocksroy is that straight shooter dude who would see violating an alliance as a big no-no. I bet that Hai gets more of the blowback from that vote initially then Omar but I suspect that the Rocksroy vote trips everyone up. Hai also is playing emotionally and being really vocal about it, I bet that bites him in the butt. Drea has two known advantages right now. That makes her a target. If she uses her knowledge is power advantage and steals Mike's idol, she is going to show that she has even more power and is hiding things. All good reasons for targeting her. Omar has been outed as playing lots of sides already, the Rocksroy vote is going to stick with him. Romeo and Mike seem to be great goats and Omar has a really good chance of winning if he gets to the end. Keep the person with the better chance of winning or the people who you don't think has a shot at winning. And I think Jonathon is closer to Lyndsey then Omar and that they all feel burned by the Rocksroy vote. Lyndsey similar reasons to Omar. She is potentially closer to Jonathon so he votes Omar before Lyndsey. Jonathon out at fire.
  4. Twitter is not known for holding nuanced conversations and this is a nuanced conversation, as many of the posts in this topic point to. And the interviews with both Rocksroy and Tori point to the nuances. Listen to Tori's interviews, she is the person who went home through all of this and she is ok with how it played out. She is disappointed with being voted out but understands what happened and why it happened. I wouldn't base any decision or thought on Twitter.
  5. No one said that. Maryann and Drea flat out said that they didn't think the votes where racist. Maryann didn't say at camp "We can't vote for Drea because it is racist." Exactly 0 people said that the votes themselves were racist. 0 people on this site have said that the votes were racist. Maryann and Drea were reacting to seeing two votes in a row being Black people. For Drea, it was her ally and she was already worried about being a target. Seeing the two jury members were Black caused her to see the pattern that does exist in reality TV and in life in general, which is Black people being removed from the game and treated injustly. Drea and Maryann did not say that they thought that people were being treated injustly but that the weight of the moment and what she saw caused her to change her play in that moment. Maryann did the same thing. Both of them expected to see Romeo next to Chanelle not Rocksroy. They expected a target to have been voted out and an Ally to have been safe. That the Ally was Black added to their angst.
  6. This was also played during that period of COVID isolation AND the Racial upheaval after George Floyd and other deaths. There was a lot of outrage and discussion. We know that Season 41 referenced those events as part of their motivation for their attempted alliance. I can only imagine that those same events are weighing on the experiences of the players in Season 42. It also ties into the conversation that was being had because there was more open discussion of privilege, systemic racism, and other issues that directly affected the experiences of Black people in the US. This didn’t come out of nowhere, just like it didn’t come out of nowhere for season 41 or Big Brother that aired that summer.
  7. This. Lyndsey would be voted out because she was the only person available to be voted out.
  8. Drea: Individual immunity idol, amulet (currently an extra vote when joined with the other two amulets), extra vote, and steal advantage Maryann: Individual immunity idol, extra vote Mike: Individual Immunity Lindsey: amulet Hai: Amulet The Amulets only work when combined so that makes them more challenging but grow in power as amulet numbers drop. Two amulets = steal a vote if they are combined, one amulet = individual immunity. So really 6 advantages, but I could be missing one.
  9. I don't think anyone got a safe scroll. I think the scroll was only pulled once last season and it was not safe.
  10. If Tori had pulled a safe scroll, the Lyndsey goes home. Jeff said as much.
  11. Lyndsey probably would have had to announce that she wanted to use her shot in the dark before Tori revealed hers. Realistically speaking, shots in the dark are played in the voting booth and before the votes are revealed. I don't think she could have decided to use her shot if Tori was safe. I doubt those numbers applied to the smaller tribes of 5. I would guess, but have no evidence, that in the case of these tribal councils they went back to 1 in 6. There would have been no way to resolve tribal if both had drawn safe scrolls. Three people had immunity and two safe scrolls, there is no one left. That makes me think they had reverted to one safe scroll for the smaller tribals.
  12. Maryann and Drea both saw a pattern from society and older Survivor being repeated and decided to change their strategy because they were concerned about that larger pattern. Drea also said that she was not going to be a part of the pattern and she was playing her idol. Given that Drea was the target, not because of a pattern but because she had 3 advantages, Drea was being smart. She announced her reason for playing the idol right off the bat. I bet that Drea was worried about tribal any way and seeing Rocksroy there, who wasn't supposed to be there, got her thinking about what might happen in their Tribal. Not one person here or at that Tribal said that they thought that any of those votes, or possible votes, were based on race. Drea and Maryann both said that they did not think race played a role in who had been voted out. They both also said that they were surprised by what they saw and that they wanted to make sure that the pattern was broken. They both made sure that couldn't happen by playing their idol. I actually think Maryann was wrong to play her idol, she didn't need to. She wasn't a target and she knew it. There was no way in hell anyone was voting for her after that conversation. It was a symbolic gesture on her part which I get based on how she was responding but was, really, not great game play.
  13. Romeo was working with them before the merge. I was initially confused because I thought he was in the 8 but his vote at the first big tribal was not inline with the alliance. Someone corrected me that it was Rocksroy that Drea brought in and not Romeo. Honestly, I think blue and green were divided enough that their participation was destined to be murky and short lived. Orange was going to take advantage of it and happily knock off green and blue. I think all three tribes offered up who they were willing to sacrifice from their original tribes, Jonathon said Maryann but in a confessional said he didn't want to vote out Maryann but needed to offer up someone for appearances sake. Drea offered up Tori. I don't think she threw Romeo under the bus but she didn't include him. And Hai offered up Chanelle.
  14. I'll give the therapy skills, she knew to listen and that there was not much that she could say. Lyndsey said all the right things before Tori could but Tori did say she understood where they were coming from. It did not feel as heartfelt as Lyndsey's but Tori probably was more in therapist mode at the moment. And Tori knew that she would be the one going home, unless she got lucky with her die roll. It was a hard situation for her and kind of a crappy position to be in. She couldn't really fight for her position in the game. Lyndsey had two allies at that tribal, Jonathon and Maryann. Maryann didn't want to vote for Tori but she wasn't going to vote for Lyndsey, that would sink her game. And Tori can say that she wasn't gunning for Drea but Tori was cool with Swati's plan to vote out Drea and was planning on voting for Drea at that Tribal. I don't think it was personal, I think it was game play, but Drea knew that Tori had been happy to vote for Drea. It is a sucky tribal though because there was nothing Tori could do or say and it really was outside the game issues that dictated what happened. I wouldn't be surprised if she was back for a later season.
  15. Romeo was not in the alliance of 8, Rosksroy was Drea's choice for that alliance. Initially, Maryann, Chanelle, Romeo, and Tori were not in the larger alliance. Maryann was brought into after Rocksroy changed who was going to tribal because she had an immunity idol and no one wanted to put votes on her and have her use the idol leading to Jonathon going home.
  16. Her exit interviews should be interesting. Yeah, it was kind of a crappy situation to be in. She entered tribal thinking she would be in an ok place and then all hell breaks loose because of issues that were totally out of her control. I liked that she asked why people were voting for her and I thought that she handled the answers respectfully. I think it was a good call to play the shot in the dark. But the entire end of that tribal council was just weird and uncomfortable and I cannot imagine being her knowing that there was little that she could do to change what was happening.
  17. Drea and Maryann are pointing to systemic racism that exists and how it colors decisions, even when people think that they are behaving as an ally or in a non-racist manner. It is out there and it is real. And it has influenced Survivor in the past. The Survivor Producers are 100% behind the initial problems with how they casted people for the show. the number of People of Color was not representative of the overall population and they were casting stereotypes. There has been plenty of conversation about how many "angry Black women" there seemed to be on the show. It was gross. It also means that the Black man who can't swim, a common stereotype that seemed to be perpetuated in the early seasons, was voted out early because he couldn't help the tribe in challenges. His weakness meant he needed to be voted out. Production seems to understand that those stereotypes and numbers were BS and are trying to do better in those areas. We have seen an improvement in those areas. We saw last season and this season how hard this issue is for Black contestants. The contestants themselves have dealt with the game differently but both groups have been very real about how different it is for them playing the game then it is for a white person playing the game. And that is true. And I applaud them for being able to raise that issue even if it is hard to hear and see on TV.
  18. I think it is easier to say "It's a game" when you are sitting at home, well rested, and feed. I would bet that everyone of the players goes into the game thinking that way and planning on playing with a cool attitude and to let things roll of their back. And then things change. There is no way Daniel reacted or played the way he wanted to. It just isn't possible but I think we saw who Daniel is under extreme stress. I mean, listening to Daniel's interviews and the way he sounds and behaves when rested and feed you can see why he played the way he did. I really doubt that was how he planned on playing or wanted to play. Mike and Hai are emotionally driven. It is pretty darn clear that they see slights and they hold grudges. That influences their actions. Romeo and Maryann have been shown to have emotional responses in their confessionals but to shield a lot of that in their game play. Different personalities. Both of them also come from backgrounds where they are used to hiding. Romeo has flat out said that he has hidden his sexuality from people and Maryann has talked about needing to try and conform in some way. I think Romeo has had more success then Maryann in general but they both have mentioned knowing that the need to hide a part of who they are in real life. That is going to help them do the same in the game. I have heard past Survivor players saying that you are best off owning who you are before you go out to play and not trying to change your personality to play the game, because you will fail if you try to play out of character. Lisa and Dawn both spoke to this. They saw what they thought was the type of player that they needed to be to win and tried to play that game but it clashed with who they were as people. So that ruthless game clashed hard enough with their lager personality that they came across as fake and people felt betrayed. The great player can embrace their personalities and play the game using that and win. Some good players took a few seasons to figure out what they had to tweak a bit to pull out the win (Boston Rob and Tyson) and others never figure it out and keep wondering why they lose (Russell, Coach) I am not sure that Hai and Mike are able to reign in that emotional reaction to being betrayed and keep going on with the game. I don't think that is possible given their personalities.
  19. I think that Jonathon's biggest problem is that he doesn't listen. He didn't listen to Lyndsey and he wasn't listening to what Drea or Maryann were saying. I have less of a problem with his being excited when talking to Lindsey but with his implication that she was talking too fast and was too excited and he couldn't listen to her when she was like that. He was using the, in essence, emotional woman bullshit when he stopped listening the moment that Lyndsey's plan was different then his. His mansplaining and method to shut down the conversation is offensive. I don't think that he is a bad person but I think that he needs to do better in understanding where other people are coming from and understanding his privilege and what that affords him. I do hope that he watches this and sees how what he did was problematic and adjusts his approach. We have seen him acknowledge that he has to be careful with how he approaches situations because of the optics, he is a big white dude and that can make confrontation hard for him because people can feel physically threatened even if he is not trying to be threatening. So he is aware of some of these things. Maybe he needs a nudge or two to see some of the more subtle issues that exists and he can work on those.
  20. I think Hai and Mike are playing emotionally and are very open about it. Romeo clearly has his feels but he is saying it in confessional and then talking to people about Hai by pointing out his behavior. Hai thinks he is in a better place then he is, because of his connection with Omar and Jonathon. I suspect that the Rocksroy vote costs Hai the trust of Mike and Jonathon. I suspect that Hai takes the brunt of the vote because of how he plays, more out there and more vocal about his feelings, then Omar. Omar can find a way to spin it so it is less damaging, but I think it still hurts Omar with Jonathon.
  21. That was not what they were reacting to. The overall situation is much bigger then the game. I strongly suspect that they would have been fine with the vote had they expected it. But being surprised by it and looking at the jury brought Maryann and Drea to a different place based on their personal history of treatment in society and their knowledge of a shared history based on their race. It is easier to play the game as a game when you don't have that baggage. It is harder to see the game as just a game when you carry that type of baggage. We have seen this before with race, gender, and sexuality in the game. Women's alliances normally are discussed because there is a history of discounting women and placing different expectations on how a woman will play the game. Dawn cannot form close ties with people and then stab them in the back because she is a woman. How many male winners have done the same thing? People applaud JT's game because he got close to folks and then voted them out. But god forbid a woman does the same thing, especially a mother. These are real issues and they raise their head in the game on a regular basis because they are real issues. I cannot fault Maryann and Drea for their reaction. They were blindsided by what they saw. They are hungry and sleep deprived. They have the knowledge of issues that they have face and that other people with the same skin color have faced. They responded to what they saw based on that history.
  22. Not bothering trying to pull together all the quotes for this one... There are multiple truths from last nights episode. Truth 1: Rocksroy was voted out because his social game sucked. We have seen him struggle socially all season long. He was bossy and on the outside from day one. He ended up allied with Drea and Romeo out of necessity not because Drea and Romeo really like him. Omar was clear that Rocksroy was not his ally because Rocksroy only approached him for this one particular alliance. Hai indicated that Rocksroy had not been talking to him much. Rocksroy did not approach Hai or Omar to talk and discuss a course of action but to dictate a course of action. Rocksroy was voted out because he was not a good Survivor player. He was voted out by 4 other people who happen to be minorities themselves. He was not voted out because he was black. Truth 2: All the players bring their baggage into the game. For Drea and Maryann, that means that they bring all the times that they were looked down upon or treated poorly or knew people who were treated poorly because they were Black. They expected Romeo to go because of Romeo's behavior and because Romeo had been outside the larger alliance while Rocksroy was in that alliance. The shock of seeing Rocksroy there and not Romeo AND realizing that Chanelle was there caused that past baggage of poor, ie racist, treatment in the past to surface. Both Drea and Maryann said that they did not think that race was a factor in this particular game BUT that they were both staring at past history and patterns and that they did not want to fall prey to that. Two truths, well more then that but those are the two that people are most focused on. Neither truth is wrong or nullifies the other, they co-exist. Tori had been a target for a while and was the choice I would have expected last night. I don't think it was a bad idea to try and blindside Drea, she has three advantages that the Tribe knows of (idol, extra vote, and amulet). She has a huge target on her back in the game. Maryann and Mike have targets on their back because they have advantages as well. That is a part of the game. Taking out Drea when she expected a Tori vote was a solid plan. Jonathon's problem was that he should have kept telling Drea that they were targeting Tori so the extra vote(s) went to Tori incase Drea played an idol. Jonathon was not willing to listen to Lyndsey's logic, which was spot on, and pulled the ridiculous "emotional" card when the two of them were talking. I don't have a problem with the "Man's alliance" idea, any more then I have a problem with a "Woman's alliance" idea. Mainly because they never work but also because I can see why the bigger guys are worried about being targets. I do have a problem with Jonathon's mansplaining to Lyndsey and his pulling the "your too emotional" bullshit. He did not help himself when he told Drea that he was not a racist (and I don't think that he is) and then followed up with telling Drea that she was being aggressive. Jonathon just fell from my "I want him to win" to a dude who seems to be a good guy but who is kind of dick to women and cannot step back to see other peoples points of view. I don't think he is a misogynist and I don't think he is a racist. I do think he has some stereotypical view points that he needs to address. I thought it was a strong episode because the conversation was far more nuanced then the conversation from last season. I think most of the people came out looking pretty good. I thought it was a hard conversation but one that is clear depiction of what is happening in the US today.
  23. How could they have given a hint? They were at different camps as soon as the challenge ended. At that time everyone thought it would be Romeo. The fact that it was Rocksroy was a huge surprise.
  24. The vote wasn’t about race. I think everyone on that group was a minority. Mike and Rocksroy are Black, Omar is a Muslim, Romeo is Hispanic. Hai is Asian. That is not what Drea or Maryann was saying. They were looking at the fact that two Blacks were voted out back to back and it reminded them of how hard it is for Black people to win. It reminded them of the baggage that they carry, even if they don’t think that the people they were playing with were racist. It was more of a sledgehammer reminder of the barriers that Black people face in the world. I am not going to get what they were feeling because I don’t share the history they do and I don’t see the day to day implications of being Black. The extra scrutiny and burden. Seeing two Black people voted out back to back was a visual reminder of what they face in the real world.
  25. Jonathon, there is a time to feel defensive and a time to listen. This is the time to listen. You know how you have treated the folks out there, so shut up. Oh, and listen to Lindsey, especially when she is right. His brilliant plan would have gotten Maryann out. Maryann and Drea were really honest tonight. They saw the pattern and were confronted with the history of the game and reacted. I think they were clear that they don’t there is anything overt racist but that they saw the pattern and were not going to continue it. They were both cognizant of the baggage they bring in and I think they wanted to believe that it wasn’t in the game and then they saw something that reminded them of the history in the game and in the world. That was so much more real then anything that happened in 41.
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