Mothra

I stopped watching sometime during the Geno days--did he ever get that cyst taken care of?--and hadn't planned to watch any more. I saw June being given every chance in the world to clean up her life and become a healthy, kind of normal person, and she just couldn't do it. Or wouldn't do it. I think June's delight in life was being shocking and horrible, but I think she also genuinely wanted to stop looking like a giant thumb. (the creatures in Spy Kids 1 or 2? she wouldn't need a costume) I chanced by the show on a surf and saw Anna's cancer turban and watched the first ep of the new season. How the hell did Alana (apparently, via preview) get a $20,000 scholarship to *any* institute of higher learning, much less a well-respected, *genuine* school? Did she get good grades in high school? Wasn't she home-schooled for much of her life? And I'm sorry, but Alana is still fat fat fat. Pumpkin seems to have taken some weight off, and June's body is heavy but mostly weirdly-shaped, I guess from surgery. Alana has a boyfriend with legal troubles, but she is being allowed--apparently--to make his location the deciding factor in whether she's going to go to college or not. Pumpkin at least got her this far without a pregnancy, and if Pumpkin supervised her education to the point where Alana is college-bound, that's a miracle and stars in Pumpkin's crown. The best thing in the world would be for Alana to go to school, live in a dorm, eat in the school cafeteria, and make friends with classmates instead of living her life as something to be looked at, judged constantly, and made fun of for her looks, her history, her family and her life. She needs friends who are unaware of her and her mother's histories. I'm not hopeful but I'm curious, so I'm going to try to watch this season. God have mercy on my soul.

Me, too. But you know what? I love watching them, over and over and over. I sit there in my recliner, occasionally hitting "rewind" because I can't believe what I just saw/heard. TLC could make a fortune just replaying these "Look Back" shows for eternity. I'd watch. From my Kidney Planet, I'd watch.

I think the cruelest (and therefore best) thing the OGs can do to the Dynamic Duo is to laugh at them. I hope hope hope there's another episode that shows Kidney's reaction to the OGs making fun of him and Crybrows. The meanest and most effective way to treat a tyrant is to laugh at him. And don't forget the lure of being on TV as the youngest and fittest of the wives, plus all that easy TLC money. Poof! All gone! The exit of the OGs just screwed CB over good, and she's facing life *legally married* to the biggest ass in town. Oh, if only she could cry!

Announcement: I am no longer referring to Kotex as "Kotex." In my book, he is now and forever Kidney Brown. Or maybe Knifedkidney Brown. Nope. Too long. Kidney Brown. Knifed Brown? No. Kidney is better. Kidney Brown. Rolls off my damn tongue. Acknowledgments and appreciations to Merry Brown. Thank you for your kind attention. Mothra

Again, thank you. I do not recall the Brown parents explaining about their sealings. I do not have the world's best memory, so I probably forgot, or maybe wasn't watching if it occurred early in the series. At any rate, you've set me straight, and I feel like I owe Kotex et al. an apology. Ask me about snake handlers. That I know about.

Thank you again for all this fascinating information. It had never occurred to me that post-Merry weddings would have been official Mormon/FLDS ceremonies--sealings--because they all seemed so casual about observing their religion in other ways (did any of the children go away to serve as missionaries, for example?). What they presented, to me at least, was "normal" American wedding stuff, with the exception of Kotex being the officiant of some services. How crafty and deceitful of them! It would have been a simple matter to announce that cameras were not permitted at the "real" Mormon wedding, and then moved on to the reception, which we apparently *were* invited to. If the goal was to demystify polygamy, that's another big fail. Not not showing the ceremony but in trusting the viewer to accept that there is a sacrosanct part of the religion that outsiders are not welcome to participate in. I think we are adults enough to understand that someone's true religious beliefs might not be something they want on TV, especially since those beliefs or misinterpretation of those beliefs have led literally to people dying in their defense. I mean, trying to understand how multiple wives work out in real life was enough for me. I got enough Mormon mysticism from Big Love. It's where Harry Dean Stanton showed us how to talk to god via a big black hat.

Well, see, Kotex didn't promise to *love* them, so he's in the clear, soul-wise.

Thank you very much, General, especially for the video of an actual temple wedding. I think it was a lovely service. And Kotex did wear his white suit for a couple of his weddings, but not the hat--it looks like a turban? And I think you're right; the TLC money and promotion made Crybrows' wedding what it was, but it still was wrong for Kotex to have anything to do with choosing the dress. Somebody said of her famous father (Theodore Roosevelt?) that he was the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral. I think that's true of Kotex as well.

I want to talk about Crybrows' wedding dress. First of all, Kotex picked it out? They don't know that this is the girly stuff that helps create bonds among sister-wives? Second, as I recall, did any of the other wives have a wedding-dress shopping spree like Crybrows did? I can't remember what Janelle wore; I think Merry had a read wedding dress, and Christine wore some home-made ugly thing. Third, this was Crybrows' second wedding. This would've been the time to wear a gorgeous cocktail dress or even an evening gown, but really, for a second wedding? I hate these people with the heat of a burning sun, even old Christine, but I sure do like watching them. Since I've been gone, Live Chat has disappeared from my screen. That's the best reading--can anybody point me to it? Tnx.

It really is hard to imagine how a 20+ person Zoom call would work, especially since some of the adults probably wouldn't feel Safe, the little kids wouldn't know what they were supposed to say, and the older kids apparently are holding grudges (justified or not). Did Crybrows think that this made her look like a peacemaker or something? "I tried so hard to get us all together for Christmas, and they all just hate me so much...<dissolve into dry tears>" At this point, Christine has made it clear that she doesn't give a shit and just wants Crybrows to butt out of her life; Crybrows continuing to try to insert herself where she doesn't belong I guess *she* thinks makes her look good.

As I recall, there was a significant amount of time when Merry's go-to was "I don't feel safe" talking to Janelle. Then something I can't remember happened, and Merry was pre-empted as the keeper of the safe. Of Christine singing *anything* at her wedding: have you heard Christine sing? Even after lessons? Angels in heaven stick their fingers in their celestial ears.

She-Ra is the female counterpart to He-Man of the 1980's cartoon series. Does this make Kotex He-Man? Then is Christine Skeletor, and Merry Man-O-Arms? I'm confused. I wonder if there was any problem getting an endorsement from a representative (or whatever official has to nominate a kid for the service academies) to send a kid from an (illegal?) polygamous family to the AFA? Does anybody know who his sponsor was?

I gathered that it was just a fun thing they did, but Jebus it seems like Crybrows took it as a personal assault. I mean, my husband gave me these tests over the years, and I'm Mussolini, and you just have to embrace it.

This was the big question for me. A genuine therapist wouldn't use a test to determine "personality type"--this is, for me, *exactly* the kind of test you'd take for shits and giggles. The closest to anything like this being used in a serious situation is maybe for hiring purposes. My husband used to come home from management seminars with tests like this, to be used to figure out how to get the best from employees. And then it sounded like Crybrows was implying that the test was Christine's evaluation of her personality, or that Christine took the test *for* her--which is not the feeling I got from the other wives. I assumed it was one of those online personality "tests" that tell you what breed of dog you're most like, or what your favorite color tells about you. It never occurred to me that it might have been a serious evaluation by their "therapist." In that case--whoa.

Oh, if I were on that mountain, and there was a chance to get loud-mouth asshat Whitney out of there, I'd jump at it. Yes! Yes! for the lurve of glob, get her away from me! Leave me here to camp out in the train--just get her out of my life. And to the question as to whether Whitney realizes how unappealing she is (and has been throughout the series), I think she's not quite seeing herself as others see her. I truly don't think she knows how awful she comes across ("awfully?"), and totally agree that she needs therapy, serious therapy, because what will happen to her when the show inevitably ends, and all the people who are "interested" in her now want nothing to do with her? So many of them--not just the barnacles--stick around because of the perks of being on the show, not to mention the paycheck. If people are no longer constrained by the benefits of being her "friends," how will they treat her?

I'm really tempted to blame Crybrows, too, but I think ditching his wedding ring was Kotex making himself more comfortable dating his soulmate and the love of his life. I think Crybrows at that point was still dreaming of Ideal Polygamy.

I think the rush to cozy up to the new relatives was a bit much, too, but I think it bespeaks TLC's desperation in trying to salvage something from this shitshow. How many more times will even the most hate-watchingest fan continue to tune in to see (choose one from column A, two from column B plus beverage) Whitney embark on a new career for about two seconds before she quits; Whitney fall in lurve with (your choice: Lennie, Boo-Bear--forbidden love!!!, the Germanman, the Swissman, the insert your fave impossibly far away and unbelievable man; Whitney forces Glenn into some kind of awkwarder relationship where she is doyenne of his castle. The choices are endless, and endlessly repetitive, and endlessly predictable. I think TLC latched onto Angie also because Whitney can barely conceal her misplaced sense of superiority--hell, she can't conceal it at all! And what drama *that* could produce! I think Whitney believes Angie's family is trashy and not sophisticated enough to hang with the snooty Thores. I bet offscreen, in private, Whitney makes merciless fun of them as hicks and red-necks, not people she would otherwise have in her life. And TLC has to be aware of this. Surely it's worth one more season of seeing Whitney make an absolute ass of herself. And it's all the juicier because Glenn and Hunter seem to be genuinely fond of their new relatives and really want to get to know them. So Whitney as we've seen focused on Glenn's affection for his new granddaughter (who I guess W. saw as her main competition for Daddy's affection) and so worked hard to show that she, Whitney, was *better* at everything. But now--yikes!--Daddy has chosen *Angie* to go to the Bobst plant, and Daddy wants to move to Ala to help *Angie* find her adopted son (that Angie was a teen mom has got to rate really high on Whitney's trashometer)--dear glob! Has Whitney misplaced all her energy in trying to defeat granddaughter (and it's typical that Whitney would match--equate?--herself with the cute, young, engaged woman rather than with her real competition, her own half-sister) when the viper in her breast was Angie all along? Why wouldn't fans be hooked? The biggest expense for TLC is hauling all this bunch on fancy vacations a few times a year--and I'm sure part of that is paid for in product placement advertising. So *everybody* wins!

But that would be relevant only if one or both of them denied the paternity, right? I get what you're saying, that if Angie were to sue for her "fair share" of the Thore millions, she wouldn't really have any basis in court--I hope I've got that right. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

Legally, only if we know that Glenn was not named as father on Angie's birth certificate.

All this speculation about Whitney's not being willing to share her inheritance (and remember, Angie is just as related to Glenn as Whitney is) makes me wonder what kind of money we're talking about. Glenn and Babs were comfortable, it's plain from their house and Glenn's purported sports car, but all that could have been provided by a normal upper-management salary and retirement benefits. Not that that's not worth worrying about, especially if like Whitney you're never worked an honest day in your life. I don't know what she makes from TLC, and I wonder how much of her compensation comes in the form of lavish vacations for large groups of people. Is there family money we don't know about? We never met afaik any of Babs' family, did we, or get a hint that Babs was from a wealthy family, and the only thing I know about money on Glenn's side is that his father worked for the same printing company. And how much money do printing companies earn these days anyway? Has anybody found out anything about how successful Glenn's company is? Do they print major magazines, or is this a yearbook business? Anyone with a computer and a good printer can do all the small jobs printers used to do, like cards and invitations. How much money are we looking at, and is it enough for Whitney to make herself look greedy and petty over?

And my glob, would anybody in the world voluntarily spend time with Whitney without compensation, and lots of it? I know you'd have to pay me an awful lot to include her in my family celebrations. If those Ala relatives hang on for any other reason, they're dumber than Whitney thinks they are.

And you're right that Crybrows not wanting to be a single parent, and that started me thinking about how she always goes on and on about having sister wives to rock on the porch with, and yet how she didn't get it that Kotex was giving her special treatment and the other wives were resentful. It occurred to me that Crybrows, when she's all gung-ho polygamy, imagines that all the sister-wives are as "hot" as she is and that Kotex is a sex slave to all of them, not just her. And because she came into this with this (hypothetical) idea of polygamy, it never occurred to her that Kotex *wasn't* treating the other wives the way he treated her, whenin fact the other wives were suffering because of what he was doing for her. I don't think this show is as scripted or as producer-driven as other shows I watch. I despise Kotex and to a lesser extent Crybrows, but I think what they reveal of themselves is genuine. Which is not to say flattering.

I had never thought that Glenn would do such a thing (the condo in AL) to get back at Whitney--his demeanor and his facial expression say to me that this is fake drama, being created by tptb to maintain viewership. I said that Glenn was reaping what he sowed because I think Whitney's awful behavior and personality have a lot to do with how she was raised, so he has some responsibility for the situation he finds himself in. I'm really glad you mentioned the idea that this could be passive-agressive on Glenn's side, and I honestly don't believe Glenn has it in him to do such a thing. So now I've convinced myself that the whole moving to bama drama is scripted like a really bad soap opera, and of course that means I don't really know for sure just how awful Whitney really is. And to congratulate her for another competition won--she's a better actor than Hunter. And even now, as the scales fall from my eyes and I see the little man behind the curtain, I am still MBFFL's lapdog. I'll be here next season--mission accomplished you TLC bastards. Or whatever the hell channel this is on.

I'm 76 years old, and if my spouse were to die, especially in the manner Babs did, with stroke after stroke and prolonged hospitalizations and stints in rehab, and my adult daughter who lived in the same town and had no real job decided to manage *my* life, particularly if she would not leave me alone *in my own house* that I had shared for decades with my beloved husband so that I could cry and hug his bathrobe and smell his aftershave, well, I would have jumped at the chance to escape to another place, an apartment/condo I could live in the way I wanted to live, at least for a while. My health is shaky, but if I were to be suddenly widowed, my adult son who lives an hour or so from me had better not tell me I had to leave this big old house, this big old dilapidated house where we were so happy for so many years. I would find someone to help me, a paid someone if I could afford it for as long as I could afford it. He better not try to manage my grief, denying me the time and space to mourn in my own way. Close as he is to his dad, he has no idea of how different filial attachment and spousal attachment are, and his loss is his to grieve, but it is not the same as my loss (and Glenn's) would be. I don't care how hurt Whitney is by this belated courage on Glenn's part to try to get away from her, at least for a while. She doesn't care how much she has hurt him by acting out what she thinks he should be doing and behaving like a toddler in constant tantrum when he frowns at her. Sure, he is reaping what he has sown, but she's a middle-aged woman who can't forever blame her misbehavior on always having been "the favorite child." I'm Team Glenn all the way, even though there is probably a good bit of opportunism behind all the love he's getting from Angie et al., especially their creepy insistence on including Babs at the wedding.

Glob help me, I watched it again, and I *think* Glenn said he would "get" a condo "for a while"--which makes me think his idea (or more likely as you suggest the producers') is to stay in Ala to help Angie find her son. It does sound open-ended, though. I don't understand what makes Glenn especially useful in tracking down this son*--did he actually find Angie, or was she known about from the time she was adopted? I'm unclear about this, and I'm also confused about what Angie means when she says she doesn't want to hurt her son but if she gets hurt it's OK. If I were an adopted child with loving and beloved adoptive parents, I'm not sure I would want my biological parents hunting me down. And there's a big difference between Glenn, who was I guess in the Marines when Angie's mother became pregnant, arranging to have the baby adopted--I mean, it wasn't out of the question back then for him to have married Angie's mom--and teenage Angie becoming pregnant and being unable to care for a child. Glenn could have given Angie a perfectly happy life if he'd married her mother (and I don't buy "but maybe the parents would have hated each other" because why were they fucking in that case?), but Angie found herself a teenager in a jam. *What makes Glenn useful in tracking down Angie's son is, of course, the TLC money that can be used to get things done. I think you're right in that TPTB are feeling out a new storyline. Maybe even they are tired of seeing what a horrible person Whitney is.