Katsullivan

Yeah I don't understand the argument that the writers whitewashing Caitlin means that they don't care about her. That's exactly what you to do with a "sacred cow" character. Considering how quickly the show writers like diminishing or humiliating Iris, without anyone ever defending her, I think it's gone far beyond "covert" racism at this point.

Billy was flat out abusive to Max and in the After-Show they were doing for Season 2, the producers clearly explain that BIlly was: racist, and abusive. He hated Lucas for being black but he would basically look for any reason to hurt Max. It's also stated that they haven't been family for long - looks like their parents just got married and decided to "start new" in Hawkins. But in season 3, they're suddenly close siblings who've known each other since Max was a baby. 🙄🙄 All I wanted was for that abusive, racist piece of shit Billy to die and I got that. Of course they had to woobify his ass first because heaven forbid we should be happy that a POS got what was coming to him. I noticed that they entirely retconned his relationship with Max so that his victim could cry over his dead body, while also sweeping that small matter of "beat up a child for being black" under the rug. Typical.🙄

With the news of Elvi Okoye's cast, at this rate, I'm more interested in release information for book 9. I will still watch the show but it's fallen way down on my regard.

As someone on tumblr said: the number of neck-rolls they made that poor child do. Erica is the sassy black girl stereotype and it's disgusting.

Billy Hargrove dies. 🤞

Well said. It's never addressed and it's so disgusting yet typical of the show to let the white MC get away with murder while the black woman gets ripped to shreds for looking at him wrong. (Or in Iris's case, "looking" at him at all.)

@Gillian Rosh IMO, it's always better to read a series in publication order. It's also what the writers explicitly recommended.

Lyndie Greenwood as Elvi Okoye is disgusting, arguably worse than Ade since Ade at least was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it character but Elvi Okoye is a POV character and plays a significant role in this series. And they whitewashed her. An explicitly described as dark-skinned Nigerian woman gets played by a biracial character. The insidious anti-blackness in this show is disgusting.

Lyndie Greenwood as Elvi Okoye is such a tone-deaf casting. There are so many beautiful, dark-skinned women they could have chosen to play this Nigerian character, but instead they went for the "but not too black" option? What's worse is that they chose this actress in particular? I've side-eyed a lot of the book-to-show changes they've made that seemed to go out of their way to diminish and even demonise the black characters in the story (if not outright whitewash them like Ade) and this is just the last straw.

I want to believe that she'll come back in season 4. I can't believe that the show didn't go the direction of making Hannah/Kirkman eventual endgame.

I saw it as a veiled threat. Rorschach test. It makes sense that if you're already predisposed to hate Dany, you'll believe she's wrong to execute Varys for repeatedly trying to kill her.

And the problem is that the audience always wants the story to be black and white. They need Mirri to be good and Dany bad. The idea that this was a complex situation, and was supposed to be a lesson about how good intentions can never be enough... just loses people. Is anyone really surprised that D & D just made the show dumber and dumber over the seasons?

Fire and blood isn't inherently evil. “the real enemy is the cold.” D & D forgot this and apparently, so did a lot of the audience.

More like D & D "Kind of Forgot" about good writing. You joke but it's the only thing that makes sense.

I'm sorry but did you really think the producers of this show gave a f**k about Iris and Nora's relationship besides an opportunity to provide hate bait to Iris haters?

Ummm... Dany met Sansa and told her that she was pretty and so was her House. She was nice and friendly. And even after the nonsense "what do I feed these armies that have come to help me?" stand-off, it's still Dany that comes to Sansa and offers her pieces of intimacy (her feelings for Jon, her ex-husband) to win her over. Sansa just sneers and smirks in response. Dany is fighting overheard while Sansa is hiding in the crypt, bad-mouthing her. When one person is being a bitch and another person is making nice, that's not "equal" passive aggressiveness. Only Sansa stans trying to justify her nonsense can conclude this. Thank you!

In the books, Sansa is in the Vale poisoning Sweetrobin and learning the "game" while Theon has helped Jeyne Poole escape her marriage from Ramsey. The Red Letter has already been sent. Most importantly, GRRM isn't going to dumb down other characters to prop up Sansa. So rest assured. Nothing in the show about Sansa is going to happen in the books.

DP is definitely the instigator of this. She has enough clout bts to ask for a moratorium on Snowest. Not that Candice will complain. I can't believe that we're stuck with DP and Snowbarry nonsense for another season.

Sounds boring af. A series about building castles? That sounds like a fricking documentary. And direwolves are cute but they're not dragons.

No offence, but Robb breaking down because he's been fighting a war for years and just found out that his two little brothers were brutally murdered because he trusted the wrong person - and deciding to marry a girl he "dishonoured" ----- is vastly, vastly different from Sansa running off to betray her father because she didn't want to leave a horrible boy. In Sansa's own words, she betrayed her father. This is something that Sansa herself even admits. Again: People forget that Cersei's plan was for Ned to take the Black —— if he confessed to “treason”. No one - not even Cersei - expected Joffrey to execute Ned. But Ned won’t have confessed to treason if Varys hadn’t used Sansa as leverage against him. The Lannisters would never have put Ned up for "trial" without Sansa as hostage because they knew that no force on earth would have forced a confession out of him. And with Sansa and Arya safe in Winterfell, Catelyn would not have freed Jaime Lannister in exchange for her daughters’s lives. If Ned had still been killed in King’s Landing, then Jaime Lannister would have been executed immediately by Robb. Even if he hadn’t, Jaime would still be a hostage and Robb won’t have lost the Karstark army which was a significant factor in his betrayal and death.

I wish I could give this a 1000 likes. The writing was on the Wall from the minute they took away her agency on her wedding and had her kneel.

No deleted scene, just Sophie and Turner joking around in-between set-ups, pretending to catch a wight - as she literally says in the video. It's interesting though how the moment this clip appeared on twitter, Sansa stans latched on it to defend Sansa. After making such a strong case about how Sansa didn't need to use the dragon-glass Arya gave her to defend the people of the North. It's almost as if ... deep down, everyone knows that there is something inherently indefensible about Sansa, Lady of Winterfell, crouching in a corner clutching the only weapon that could have made a difference, praying that the magical zombies she didn't believe in would kill every woman, child and/or old person - Northern people, her people - before they got to her. Smartest person in Westeros: doesn't know how to use a knife.

Seconded. Jon knows nothing. It is known. The writing on this show is shitty to women and shoe-horning them into tired stereotypes? Color me shocked. Well if by everyone wanting to sit quietly, you mean Missandei when she finally snapped and delivered the smackdown that shut Sansa up, then I guess you're right. There were literally crying children in the crypt but ok. 😂😂😂😂😂

As for the government hunting/ future dystopia thing, I was replying directly to this: I haven't watched this show and i never watched any of the Arrowverse shows so I have no idea what's going on or what has been retconned or forgotten or brushed under the carpet. The only thing that is consistent is characters and fandom shitting on Iris in whatever way possible. It does matter because blindness is a real-life disability - meaning that while Nora is whining about not having god-like speed, there are real people in existence who can't use the bathroom without a machine or even another human being. I know we're all trying to score cheap internet points here but let's not veer into the offensive. You can come up with all manner of reasons to hate Iris - in addition to the ones the writers so happily provide - without equating real-life people like me who deal with real-life physical impairment to a fictional character's inability to run on water.