Zipper

Whoohoo! My old show is back! Many positive developments, as you've noted above. They cleared up so much garbage from last season, returning the characters to people I enjoy watching. Didn't mind that the crime of the week was a little predictable, because we moved so much stupid out of the way for a great season. Linda, Maze, and Ella were all high notes for me. And Trixie!! Having Chloe undertaking some action against Luci (presumably in league with the church based on what the priest said) is a cool way to move her from total disbelief to total comprehension, with a side of "wtaf, the Devil is real and maybe not entirely a good thing for people," and I'm glad it gives Lauren German something interesting to do. It's an active response that seems totally in character for Chloe, and potentially sets up some amazing tension with Luci. Well done, show. I'm one of those who does not need them to be in a relationship, so I really like this approach, and I'm interested to see how it plays out. I was going to watch just one, but that turned into four, so I won't comment on much more for fear of accidentally spoiling. Thanks to the Mods for multiple episode threads!

@BabySpinach that is really good. Would have broken my heart, but that is an innovative, story-consistent approach to the tabling of Michael!Dean.

Sooo sorry for the double post, I meant this to land here, not Unpopular Opinions. I've given some thought to your many excellent ideas for what to do and not do in the final season, and here are my wishes: (1) any and all incarnations of Lucifer go away in the first episode, and stay away; (2) if and only if the actual series finale holds a super fantastic ending for the brothers, and they need Lucifer to be atomized does MP come back; (3) Jack is either promptly dispatched for good, or shuffled off early on to only appear in very limited scenes if necessary to assist the brothers in ending whatever final battle(s) occur. Honestly, they could re-tread almost any amount of previous season stuff and/or characters and I could still be reasonably happy, if I don't have to deal with Pellegrino (fine actor, but I'm exhausted with his devil schtick and his Nick trauma) or Jack as a regularly- appearing pseudo Winchester. OTOH if Billie knocks some sense into his dumb toddler/soulless a$$, I could tolerate a tiny bit more. But not much. The idea above (sorry, can't find it quickly) that both JA and JP get a chance to create whatever growth/development they want to see in their characters is excellent, and I am so hoping that TPTB allow this.

I've given some thought to your many excellent ideas for what to do and not do in the final season, and here are my wishes: (1) any and all incarnations of Lucifer go away in the first episode, and stay away; (2) if and only if the actual series finale holds a super fantastic ending for the brothers, and they need Lucifer to be atomized does MP come back; (3) Jack is either promptly dispatched for good, or shuffled off early on to only appear in very limited scenes if necessary to assist the brothers in ending whatever final battle(s) occur. Honestly, they could re-tread almost any amount of previous season stuff and/or characters and I could still be reasonably happy, if I don't have to deal with Pellegrino (fine actor, but I'm exhausted with his devil schtick and his Nick trauma) or Jack as a regularly- appearing pseudo Winchester. OTOH if Billie knocks some sense into his dumb toddler/soulless a$$, I could tolerate a tiny bit more. But not much. The idea above (sorry, can't find it quickly) that both JA and JP get a chance to create whatever growth/development they want to see in their characters is excellent, and I am so hoping that TPTB allow this.

Finally caught up and watched the last five episodes. I got so bummed out by the crap that this season foisted upon us, I had run out of steam. Then I heard next season was the last, and thought... What could it hurt? Me. Me is what it could hurt. I've kept out of the episode specific threads because my beef isn't with any one episode, it's with sooo much of it that this seemed a better location for my venting. Actually, I surprised myself with how much negative I feel. Usually, other than ripping a scene or a character misfire, I try to see the positive, even if that means a little digging or fan-wanking. But this just... defies my ability to see the better. I'm probably a bibro when it comes down to it, although I tend to identify a bit more with Dean's approach to the world. So it pains me twice as much when both brothers are given the crappy shrift of this writing team. Because I don't consume any SM from the show runner, writers, etc., I'm not going taking the position that the writers have it "out" for one or both of them, or that they are scorching earth w/r/t Sam or Dean. Maybe yes, maybe no, it just doesn't matter to me what the motivation is when the outcome is dreck. The fact that J2 pulled the plug suggests that whatever the show has become, it's not enough for them anymore. And, that mirrors my own feelings. I don't mind when the show introduces other characters to share the lead, whether those new characters have multi-ep, season-long, or multi-season relevance. It's 14 seasons in, and new blood can be useful. But the elevation of Jack, the send-off for Mary, and this Chuck-thing, have me at my wits end. Never hated the idea of Jack-- I thought it might be a cool story device to explore something heavenly without representing actual biblical figures. And there have been times I've really rooted for the kid, which is likely a tribute to the actor as much as anything. But the handling of him has been off for the better part of his existence. And now? Now he's set up as part of the final confrontation? An inexperienced, soulless toddler so prone to manipulation that he just wiped a congregation off the map because he was told, by someone he has NO REASON TO TRUST (having heard "angels are dicks" how many times?) that his doing so would please Sam and Dean? WTAF, show. And as a result of his utter failures to see anything but his own woobieness, he gets to pair up with Billie? And the Empty? Aaaarrrrgggghhhh. Not appealing to me. At all. I guess, at heart, I was okay with him suffering a death for the death he caused. Sure Mary was a dumbass, poking at the super-powerful being who was clearly in a fit of some kind. But Jack's total inability/unwillingness (doesn't matter) to see her death as anything other than "an accident" coupled with his failure to seek out ANYONE who could help him assess the matter clearly (hint: auditory and visual hallucinations are NOT normal and Lucifer TOLD YOU that you conjured him up in your own head) renders him a nullity to me. But I'm going to bet stuck with him in S15, and that just bums me out. Which brings me to mommy dearest. The fact that Mary came back as not-perfect Mom was FINE with me. She's been out of the world for a lifetime, and as much as a mother's love might be able to patch that over, I was FINE with her not being that great of a Mom to virtual strangers. And I was okay that she didn't undertake an effort to become that Mom-- given the time limitations and what I perceive to be the actress's limited range. Sam and Dean never really called her on her shit, and as long as they were happy with her as is, I could manage. Didn't like her much as a character, because her only relevance to me was as the mother of our heroes. Absent any other defining characteristic, her being not-so-good at that just meant I didn't have to invest much in her. What bothers me most with her is the wasted opportunity of her death; the retcon could have done SO much more. I like the idea that Mary tends to praise Sam more because of her guilt over the deal with YED, and until her send-off I could hand-wave her differing treatment of Dean with the occasional bitching. But when they decide to flash back with that saccharine BS, instead of allowing her to speak truth and clarity to both brothers? To deny her any self-awareness at all before final death? Despicable. I have no skill for dialogue, but what a difference my take would have been had she uttered something along these lines: Sam, I cursed you years ago because of a weak, short-sighted deal that I thought I could ultimately prevent, but didn't. You have paid for my stupidity with such pain and loss, and I am truly sorry for that. What you have grown into, what you have become [strong, brave, leader, blah blah]. Dean, I have not been able to provide you the kind of support you deserved since I came back. That you have been satisfied with so little breaks my heart. But I want you to know that in my own flawed way, I have cherished the time we have had and I love you for the man you have become." Then she has to firmly pish-tosh any of Dean's attempting to accept responsibility for her own shortcomings. She doesn't have to compliment Dean the same way as Sam. They couldn't even have her own her failures both old and more recent? Disappointing to say the least. And Chuck... hoooboy. Either God is evil, or a switcheroo on two and it isn't God? That rankles me to the core, and I'm not a religious person at all. It's just not who Chuck EVER was before the last ep. This "twist" made me think back and wonder why we ever bothered with heaven and the angels at all if this is the final confrontation. Because once there is a "heaven" opposite the "hell" of this show, God is necessarily part of the conversation given the degree of horror the show has introduced (i.e., where is God? why isn't God helping? how can we find God? etc.), and "he's not a helicopter parent" was never going to be a good enough explanation for the Winchesters. God was going to have to make an appearance, and I sort of liked the Chuck/God character earlier on. Hands off because, as I learned in Bible School, free will is just that-- and consequences exist. Now he's just an entertainment hungry douche? Brought back to us because they elevated Jack to world-ending powers? Sorry for all the shouting, and the bits of incoherence, but I am so very sad with this. And yes, I'll tune in for S15, because J2 may actually get this ship righted in time for me to miss it. Wouldn't it be cool to see our lost favorites featured throughout as a 20-episode good-bye? I will sit through a lot of crap if I can seen Ellen and Jo again. But right now I am going to re-watch an earlier season to cleanse this taste.

I recently re-watched the whole run, and this turned out to be a much better show when I removed myself from the week-to-week watching, culminating in this episode. Other than the "what makes a demon loopy for 12+ hours" problem, I loved it. Lucifer has moments of complete self-realization; we get some peace for Charlotte; Dan is strong and purposeful; Chloe finally sees the truth; Maze shows up for Linda, who is perfect in the moment. I cannot wait to see what comes next on Netflix.

Well, they sucked me back in! I was excited to watch contemporaneously this year, but by E06, was too bored to continue. And then THIS... this work of yore. This excitement. This humor. This... wow. I have almost nothing to add to the compliments or nit picks, other than this: when Jack promises Cas that he won't use his "powers" again, I started a clock in my head and wondered if we would even get out of the episode without another demonstration. That is this show, and after watching this Ep a second time, I'm fine with it. Let Jack go wherever the writers' fancy takes him. Just give me some canon, a little bit of Pamela (or other ladies/dudes Dean took a shine to), some funny, and some cool fighting, and I will hang in for the duration. But for the love of Chuck... could it not take 10 eps to get there?!?!?!

I really enjoyed this series, and I don't need a continuation of this story in a second series. Each of the actors did wonderful work. My sense of Heidi's relationship with Walter is that she holds a deep sense of caring, which may include love. Although it's not clear that she or the show necessarily means romantic love. It's hinted at in their one hug, the look on her face seems almost blissful, but by the time she finds him, I'm not sure it's the same emotion. On Walter's part, some of his comments to her, and the practical jokes, have a sweet, almost flirtatious vibe. Mr. James has a playful warmth about him in some scenes, and openness that seems to convey his affection for her. Her emotional reaction to him makes perfect sense, as her motivation in this program, while short on moral underpinning, was to help soldiers transition to civilian life without the crippling effects of PTSD. IIRC she spent three years at the VA after earning her masters in social work. So she was primed to help military veterans outside the limiting bureaucracy-- and (for a moment ignoring the negative consequences) Walter was, as Colin pointed out in his presentation, the best-case scenario. He initially carried guilt, shame, and responsibility for Lesky's death. He may not have been able to overcome those feelings and move on without some meaningful intervention. The point of divergence between Heidi and Colin being: Heidi cared so much for Walter that she would not tolerate his loss of the better memories, like 'Titanic Rising', whereas Colin didn't give a shit. But, such as it is, Walter's success is her success, and that could be a powerful bond. Walter's fall is her fault via the double-dose of lunch, and her guilt, on top of the fondness she had for Walter is also a compelling motivation to deepen her feelings and/or sense of duty to him. In Walter, Heidi sees not only someone who she has helped (until her realization about the evil being done), but someone who represents a general kind of freedom for her. His freedom from potentially life-altering consequences of war, her freedom from the life she has lead. The wind-in-the-hair road trip idea, the escapism of that is alluring to her in ways that her life-consuming career cannot provide. So, I think, when she finds him in CA, she cherishes the idea that he is free and her decision not to show him the map is another act of caring, of love. She won't force him back to Homecoming on her timeline... but then, the angled fork, and that amazing look she shoots him out the diner window-- relief, happiness bordering on glee, caring. It's a stellar moment of work from Ms. Roberts. And it makes me think that what's next for her is moving down the road a bit to another similar town, to make her own freedom. Maybe she and Walter cross paths again, maybe not. But I think we are intended to believe that she's not quite done with Walter. She might be a fool for that (his mother would be furious), but he is so much a focal point for her "fixing" what her complicit behavior allowed, I don't see her having the integrity or strength necessary to walk away for good. On the after-credit scene: I didn't take it as perfume, just a transdermal application of some form of the medication. Audrey was clearly shaken by the confrontation with Colin, maybe just adrenaline, but she visibly calmed down after applying the red stuff. And I'm not sure it's intended to be marketed, as the vial said "Lab Use Only" or some such. Maybe that's just a bit of insight to the ongoing malignancy festering at Geist-- the wrongful use of a potentially dangerous substance by the woman sent to cure the Colin problem.

Behind again....which saves me typing time. I was so abjectly bored by Sam and AU Charlie that I totally missed the fidget spinner thing. Dean and Jack together was the best Jack has been since his initial coping with the death of his mother (also the last time I felt much good will towards Jack). As several of you have mentioned, that's likely because he was paired with Dean-- who actually worked with the kid's talents, such as they are, to gain trust with the librarian and pursue that lead. There are so many potentially interesting things this show could explore-- the Michael plot, the non-motherly aspects of Mary, etc., and we get half an episode of Sam trying to talk a woman he doesn't really know into a life that could easily result in serious bodily harm or death. I understand him wanting a version of Charlie around, and I like this version of Charlie so I kind of want her around, too, but it's not at all clear why he's trying to persuade her into being a hunter instead of just trying to counsel her to a healthier place in this life-- not total isolation forever. Sure, I mean, a month on a mountain top as recovery sounds awesome, but then... integrate, find your new C/Kara. It makes him look selfish in a way that bothers me. And the closing message of the fly people, that even if you've wound up an outcast, the village/tribe/team will come together in the end rings hollow because of the absence of any true parallel with either the Winchesters or AU Charlie.

You have all hit on almost everything I thought of (I'm a week behind), except I don't believe anyone commented on this aspect of Maggie's allegedly being ready for a solo hunt: either she's a fool or the costume department doesn't understand what "readiness" looks like for hunting. Pink pants? They practically glowed in the dark. And her boots? Laced up 3/4 of the way, and loose. She couldn't have run a block on flat, dry pavement. Dumb, and lazy. That's how I felt about almost every element of the show this week, except for the daughter and the djinn's dynamics.

Totally agree with the folks who have no love lost on Thatcher. Mer owes him nothing. His abuse of her after his anit-Ellis wife died was so horrible. I have never forgiven him. She has no obligation to seek him out now. Also agree with the folks who are not in for a serious Linc/Mer pairing, There is something about that dude, I keep thinking of him as a bit of a missing link-- some mid-evolutionary stage of human. I see how people could find him attractive (mostly in still photos), but he's got something loose and rangey about his gait and movement that makes me think about big apes Yes, he was way more tolerable this week, even charming. But, as he exists now, not for Mer. As soon as Chasing Cars started playing, I freaked out a bit-- very nervous about what was going to happen. And then George!! Doc!! And so on. I loved it, the GRIN on McSteamy. All cheese. Iffy CGI. Don't care. I cried during and after-- thinking about all the death Mer has been through. And how much I miss some of those characters. (Not you, Ellis). Also, I am not here for Schmitt/Glasses trying to shame a grown man into teaching him how to achieve his sexual identity. That line about "teaching hospital" was gross. And I don't really like the character anyway-- I find nothing endearing or cutely nerdy about him. He reeks of newbie at everything. Please allow Nico/HAOG a grownup.

Sure re: survival instinct. And maybe it doesn't bug you, but for me, when his survival instinct requires her to gestate the actual spawn of satan, against her wishes (at the time), that is a problem for me. When anyone or thing other than the pregnant woman makes that decision.... blech (could be current events making this a bigger deal for me). I don't hold this against Jack as a character. To the contrary, I find myself often charmed by him (not this week), but the show set up his fetal nefilum power in a way that still squicks me out.

I'm okay with Jack struggling, and lashing out from time to time. But to take away screen time from Michael!Dean, his plan, or the search for him, in lieu of an extended, unwise road trip tantrum just bugs. Like some of you, I have real issues with Jack's entry to this world-- forcing his own birth despite his mother's preference. That was so gross, so agency-depriving, that it colors the way I see him now. And sure, the importance of "family" is emphasized in the show, so I can intellectually wrap my head around his wanting to meet his grandparents, but... that scene was so off-putting. The actors did well, but the premise of the FORMER president's assistant having to go dark with A BABY? Stop that nonsense. Further, Jack knows he can't maintain any familial relationship with them because he can't tell them he's their grandson or that their daughter is dead. So other than a shot in the arm for how much his mother was loved, and by inference, how much she was capable of loving him (and shouldn't he know that), what's the point? Get that Nickifer off my screen. I am so tired of this, only 2 episodes in. I don't care who killed his family. I don't care if he ever finds out. I don't care whether he's murderous (either then or now). I don't even care if he's alive or dead. What kind of show elevates their appreciation of an actor's talent over telling the stories that have keep audiences engaged for 14 seasons? Apparently, this one. If they don't wrap this into some Winchester-related thing soon, I'm in danger of tuning out completely. (Until you all rave about some episode in the future-- who I am kidding). Sam needs a shave. Mary needs to be less visible. Bobby can stay for a bit, but he better get with the helpful tidbits ASAP. (I love Jim Beaver, but I don't need three fake Fibbies at any crime scene). Hoping that having Dean back this week will help me manage this ongoing disappointment.

Uff. I won't repeat all the disappointment noted above, but I felt it all. Two serious issues for me are: (1) I do not want Nick back, and while I appreciate that MP is a fine actor, I am so very, very done with his Lucifer-- it makes me sputter to consider that possible return; and (2) when Mary is talking with Sam in the car and says she knows Dean is out there SCARED and alone, I started yelling at the TV. Does she know her son at all? He's not scared, he's pissed. Maybe spooked that he's three weeks in without a sense of how to exercise any power, but Dean Freaking Winchester is not some puddle of afraid while Micheal takes him for a round-the-world stroll. No way, lady. The other stuff, like the treatment of Cas, all bugged, but those two things really stuck in my craw.

I'm getting selective in this re-watch of mine, and the dog makes it a Nope. There's no room for dying animals in my psyche today.

I've always wondered this, too. And you know, I think my whole lukewarm attitude toward Mary traces back to this episode. The boys' love for her tempers my ... dislike? That might be too strong. But literally every time she appears after this, I think of the selfishness that brought this all about for the boys. And sure, if she didn't make the deal, maybe the show doesn't exist because they aren't highly motivated hunters in a few years. And yes, she winds up sacrificing her life because she didn't heed the warning (no one disturbs me and no one dies / gets hurt). But spare me the deep, meaningful love for John angle, because you know what that kind of love does for most people? Makes them their best selves. Not their demon-bargaining selves. Not when they know that demons are real, and the terror, heartache, and misery they sow is real. I can accept a moment of terrible, terrible judgment but even that makes me have less care for her than I'm probably intended to. If it weren't for how much the boys treasure her (and how well the actress does her work), she would be my very least favorite thing about the whole show.

One of the things I like about this show is the framing of angels. Castiel has said or suggested, several times now, that he's working on God's orders. Dean, while in transition to belief in angels, already thinks they are dicks. This immediate POV that angels are not all good, fluffy, saviors and are instead warriors and soldiers with, in Dean's view, questionable direction (meaning if no God, then what?) helps set up some things later. The idea that working in the name of God or on behalf of God renders something "good" is and always has been BS imo, because people twist the words to defend stupidity, hatred, oppression, war, etc. I didn't remember how clearly this notion was set up this early, and I'm really happy to know that this dynamic existed from the beginning. I do love this version of Cas. And I so appreciate that the brothers come at the question of God and his potential benevolence from two totally separate corners. As to whether Dean is an atheist or skeptic at this point in time, I don't know. But his "not in my experience" line should certainly inform how we view his belief system, and I'm always a fan of healthy doubt. In fact, Sam's character could use a little more healthy doubt w/r/t Ruby at this juncture, and iirc, throughout S4. Posters above have hit my favorite lines, so no repeating. Also I totally third (or fourth) the idea that having Henriksen and Ronald back just mad me miss them more, mostly for the squandering of future potential. Particularly Henriksen.

AwesomO4000 I get where you're at here, particularly because the few scenes we got in Mystery Spot where Sam lived on alone after Dean got shot were so powerful. Maybe the desire to have Dean crawl out of the grave as the first scene just threw this possibility out the window. Who knows. But some kind of light on Sam's struggle over the four months would probably have made it easier for me to cut him more slack at the beginning of this season. Maybe the show does want us pissed at Sam, or at least mightily confused. On Dean's memory ambiguity: he flat out lies about it being blacked out, but even if all he remembers now is flashes, it's still terrifying enough to completely alter any mere mortal. Subsequently, there are super-jarring moments, but I don't recall those well enough to have much of an opinion now. With just the information we have here, he's either a master of compartmentalization or denial or both. Or, maybe it's his self-sacrificing any healthy treatment of his recollection for Sam's benefit, which would be consistent with pre-Hell Dean.

All very good points, and I agree that for a pre-Hell Dean this was totally in character. I guess I just wish that his need to know, to justify, and maybe even retaliate appeared more balanced with a will to live given this new post-Hell opportunity. That's probably putting too much on the show or Dean, but the idea that his lack of acceptance (and resulting behavior) completely overshadows what must be earth-shattering relief for not being in Hell anymore... that's the lack of harmony. To me, it comes off as a total inability to appreciate or value the chance he's been given in the first days back. So that makes him either cavalier with his own brand new life or so filled with self-loathing that he's willing to risk death, or both. He's been super confident before, but not stupidly so, and there is literally no plan other than summon it and hope for the best. With stakes this high and no guarantee he isn't going right back to Hell if he dies? That seems like a lot to gamble.

Getting to binge watch this show takes a little out of Dean's resurrection. I didn't have to wait months to find out how they solved his demise. And, it's my second time through... so even less surprise. But the opening scene still doesn't disappoint. He's hoarse, he's burning up oxygen with a Zippo. He's got to climb out. And look, if I buy that The Bride from Kill Bill can climb out? I TOTALLY buy that Dean Winchester can climb out. The pull-away shot, with all the trees down is majestic and haunting. He's thirsty, and still hoarse. The gusto with which he drinks water is spot on. As noted above, Bobby's testing of him is great-- the reaction shot to the holy water is so humorous. The spit makes me giggle. "Thriller video reject" is a funny line. The look on Sam's face, contrasted with the total love and joy on Dean's? It's fear and doubt and apprehension and disbelief. Nice work by both actors. I'm pretty much convinced that Ruby pulled the Kathy/Christy thing to further the idea that it was just a hook-up. It fits within her MO-- manipulative liar, protecting her own agenda, like pretending to not know who Dean is at first. Sure, she might actually like Sam. Or it might be BS to gain his trust. That's not clear now. And I'm fine with that. It even helps me appreciate Sam's motivation with her-- he sees saving people, even with her help, as more important than anything else. That her help comes in an I-like-you-and-sleep-with-you package probably allows Sam a bit less self-recrimination. Sure, it's twisted in some ways. He watched Dean die 100 times, then actually get mutilated and killed by a hellhound while he survived Lilith, and for four months, failed at any effort to fix it. He's had some serious sh*t to deal with, and the fact that he may have made some bad decisions in that process? Understandable. So I don't mind much that Sam obscures Ruby for now. He knows Dean is going to lose it, and Dean's fresh out of Hell so why not take a few days to figure out how to present this, maybe prepare yourself for having to make a Dean/Ruby choice, or find a place where that choice isn't so horrible. Get into his own head and look over the possible options. But what does not work for me is when Sam earnestly declares to Dean that he would NOT use his psychic powers because it was almost Dean's "dying wish." You do NOT have to sell your BS like that, and it makes me think the writers want me to be angry with Sam from the outset. Also, and this is a tiny detail, but when Ruby leaves the room, and Sam is turned away from Dean and Bobby, he's grinning at her like she was a one night stand, but she was fun enough to have hang around for pizza. It's way more flirty than it needs to be to sell the illusion, because they can't see his face. Weird choice, unless I'm also to believe that Sam has some real affection/attraction to her. That is a LOT to process. So they contrast Sam's betrayal with his first real dialogue of the season being this heartfelt, self-anger, frustration, and humiliation that he couldn't save Dean. The delivery by JP is so credible, so raw. The acting makes me believe Sam has been wrung to the core, and it makes him sympathetic and worthy of compassion. I always try to find a space where all aspects of the character can live in some degree of harmony. And we're all full of little quirks and inconsistencies. But this seems like a lot of ambiguity to accept in one ep. Am I to feel so much empathy for Sam that I condone his lie to Dean? And his consorting with a demon? It's asking me to embrace a Sam version where his "do good" motivation blinds him and makes him a lying liar to Dean, fresh out of Hell. Tough wrangle for me because one of the big lessons for both boys in S3 was supposed to be: not all "do good" is wise, the human self-preservation drive has a purpose, and your instinct to self-sacrifice should be weighed ever so carefully. Whenever it's a psychic, I want it to be Missouri. But Pamela's open admiration of Dean ("your gain") is so cool, and Dean's "you're not invited" is pitch perfect for him. The one Dean thing that strikes me a bit unharmonious is his drive to summon the unknown thing of unimaginable power. After seeing Pamela's fate, and knowing that demons are terrified to the point of letting him walk out the door after smacking the ever-loving snot out of the presumed leader? He's out of Hell for one damn day and he's prepared to sacrifice his life all over again? That is hard for me to accept in him. I want Dean to cherish his life for a few minutes before plunging headlong into risk. When Castiel looks into his soul and says you don't think you deserve to be saved, followed by JA's reaction? Heartbreaking. Gah... this got so long. Sorry. One last thought. Dean's conduct in life didn't make him deserve Hell. If he deserved Hell in the show's construct, it's because he made a deal to go there. And in return, he got Sam's life. At this point in the show, a deal is a deal when you can't figure out how to kill the deal-holding demon. So he could legit believe he didn't deserve saving because he made a deal, and because of what happened there. But, his perception is likely still colored by his pre-death lack of self-worth. And that pains me for him. Again, sorry for the length, but this ep really starts a process where I struggle with the characterization, so I'm hoping putting my thoughts down will help me this time around.

Uuufff. This is a hard one to watch. Sure, there are a few moments of levity, but I can't really enjoy them because of what I know is coming. It's utter BS that Ruby doesn't give Sam any indication of what kind of preparation is necessary for him to defeat Lilith when she first appears on the scene in this ep. She doesn't have to reveal what it takes, specifically, only that if they don't start immediately, there won't be enough time. "Sam, you have steps to take to prepare. If you don't start now, you will run out of time soon." Because later, when she says, TWICE, either "we're out of time" or "there isn't enough time," it sounds so nonsense. What was the time for, Crooked Breath? I mean, yes, depending on when Lilith takes over her body maybe those excuses are supposed to be a red flag. But I do not like that aspect of this episode. Because if it's supposed to be a red flag, and Dean can see Hell's other bitches, then it makes him look stupid for either not pushing this question or not picking up on the flag. Blech. Sam is so lovely and broken at various points in this ep, it just tears at me. His effort to be strong for Dean is a visible stretch, given his own fears. Very nice bit of work by JP. And watching Dean be mutilated? I don't have words. It's so awful. And to boot, I have to see him screaming for help in Hell. When I later learn how long his poor soul must languish there? It's just terrible. And you know, the demons can all together piss off. Shitty evil bastards.

As we march inexorably toward the expiration of Dean's year, and as we lose characters that have formed some kind of base for the boys, I start to get really nervous. First, poor Gordon, who I liked as a character and whose ultimate demise bugged me in many ways (his being forcibly turned into what he hates, and the conduct he engages in as a result). Then Hendrickson, who I loved, both because his performance was so good as competent law enforcement guy, and whose revealing details after he learned the truth made me want him to live a long life pitching aid to the good fight. Now the show uses John to throw Dean a potential life line, and even though I doubted the reality of the solution John might offer from the jump, I wanted it so badly. I may have wanted it more than Dean. So when it turns to sh*t, I nearly cry. Sorry, that's not necessarily episode specific, but for me this episode represents a moment in time for them that seems to draw some very specific lines. Sam's been through 100 of Dean's deaths, hunted on his own, was prepared to sacrifice a virgin, had to kill Gordon in a gruesome way, but he's helpless to show Dean the lack of integrity in John's sudden appearance. He's running all over town trying to save those kids, while Dean frantically searches for some out. It's heartbreaking for both characters. The final scene nails it for me, the fear absent any real hope. For both boys. Sometimes when the MotW fails to really grab my attention, I'm grateful that the show embeds such solid development for the boys. This was one of those episodes for me. Thanks rue721 and catrox14. Your analyses about Dean is really cool.

I'm with those of you who hold this episode among their favorites. "Clowns or midgets?" "Does this taco taste funny?" "Hey puppy. Who needs a friend?" [That may not be the line, but you know what I mean]. The humor JA brings to those scenes is something else. His ability to look continually fresh when Sam repeats the same bits over and over. I laugh out loud so many times, and then cringe with the death scenes. Except when they're kind of funny. And Sam without Dean? So alone, so tough, so altered. JP really sells that, and it's a great opportunity for the character. He thought he had to become more like Dean to survive the crossroads deal, and voila, he's harder in ways that I didn't expect to see. Would have been nice for Sam to actually learn the lesson that nearly broke him of his Samness-- in the same way it would have been nice for Dean to believe what he told his dream self in Dream a Little Dream of Me. I could watch this episode a dozen times in a row. I won't, because it might make it less enjoyable, but it's one of the ones I think will never really lose its punch.

Man, I laughed my butt off on this re-watch. Sam's bad luck is JP's good fortune, hilarious bits of falling, catching fire, and the big sad, slumped shoulder "shoe" line kills it. As does the little toe wiggle around the grate. Poor Sammy.

Candygram!!