Homily

That's one thing I always wonder about with this show. I do realize now though, thanks to this forum, that a lot of the time the backstory they are giving about the participants isn't true, or not very true anyway! When I lived in England, among the circle of people I was with who had all been sent over to the UK by my husband's company, I was the only spouse who was able to work there - none of the other women had visas that would allow them to work. I'm sure if they knew they were going to be there for a long time that might have changed, but they'd have to have done something about it, it wasn't just a case of "oh my spouse has a job here so I can work here too".

Yeah, I discovered ELR at a pretty difficult time in my life and it definitely became "comfort food" for me. Still is for that matter even though my life has taken a turn for the better :).

In the real world Debra and Ray would have moved away long ago, in sitcom land where the basic premise of the show is living across the street from intrusive parents moving away wasn't really an option! Heh, I always think that when I see this episode as well. But on the subject of intrusive - how dare Debra and Ray go over to Frank and Marie's house to cross examine them about their sex life??? Wow. I mean sure I can see that they were wondering which version was the right one but to the extent that they'd go over and actually demand an answer? Wow, so wrong on so many levels. But damn funny :).

Thanks, Moose. I wasn't sure since I'm from Montreal and in 1960 my parents built a house for about $6,000. I was pretty sure a house on Long Island though would have been going for more than a house in a suburb of Montreal!

I remember thinking at the time that Frank and Marie must have bought their house around the same time my parents did - circa 1958-60 as they were living in the house right after they got married. I always wondered if that was a lot of money to pay for a house at that time because in 2005 when that episode is set a house like Marie and Frank's had to be going for something like $400,000. Robert was getting quite the deal!

It was $26.000 "for a HOUSE" and I think the writers just completely forgot about it and hoped the viewers would too. If Robert and Amy had actually bought the house they would have been the legal owners and even if they were willing to give the house back there would have been paperwork etc involved and I guess the writers just didn't want to go there. Which is fair enough but a throwaway line to indicate that they'd never actually followed through on the sale to that point would have been nice for those of us who care about these kinds of things!! Anyway if we assume that Robert and Amy actually had bought the house but were prepared to walk away from it then either Marie and Frank kept the money (which is unlikely considering Marie refused to even take rent from Robert all those years) or they gave the money back so Robert and Amy either had $26,000 in the bank or they had borrowed it and turned around and paid back the bank which left them penniless. So hard to believe that two people in their 40s who have good jobs would have no money. But of course ELR spent 9 years telling us Robert was poor and Ray was rich. Which is a rant for another day :).

Yeah the last time I remember they even mentioned Amy having a job was an episode in season 8 when Robert comes over and mooches a meal at Ray and Debra's because Amy is working late. As far as I can remember from that point on it's like Amy isn't working at all. But then as others have pointed out that's kinda true of Ray and Robert as well.

That always bothered me too. I mean I do get that they needed to pick Bernie and Linda to set up the rest of the episode but it still bothered me that (a) they act like they actually discussed Robert as a possible guardian when they didn't even mention him and (b) that they assumed family friends would even want to take on the guardianship of 3 children. It's asking an awful lot of anyone to do that let alone people who are not even related to you! I've got lots of family members in the military and I don't think they'd be unfit guardians for my kids just because there is a greater potential for risk on the job. Robert was always portrayed as a loving and caring uncle that should have been enough reason to choose him at the very least as their second choice when Bernie and Linda turned them down.

Well for that matter not much later in the series. I think the "Debra made something good" episode Marie gets all nasty about anyone having to use a recipe for cooking. "Real cooks don't need recipes". The writers apparently forgot all about the fistful of recipes she passed on to Debra at the end of the meatball episode! But like we've been saying this isn't just a Debra is now a crappy cook character evolution, this is also a Marie is a complete and total bitch with few redeeming features character development!

I feel the same way, Suzanne and CherryAmes. Debra needed to change because everyone else changed too! Watching the earlier episodes Marie is meddlesome but she isn't cruel, and Ray is clueless but he does try to pitch in and even sticks up for Debra now and then. Later seasons that all changed and to be perfectly honest the show got funnier. It wouldn't have lasted for 9 seasons and went out on the high note that it did if the writers had been listening to must of us I suspect!!

What I hated about that episode was that it was a typical sitcom situation set up for this one episode. Most of the time it's Ray who was late (not late when they were getting ready to go but almost always late coming home from work or golf or anything that took him away from his family) or it was Ray who couldn't get his act together to get ready. The wedding episode comes to mind where Debra gets herself and three kids cleaned up, dressed and ready to go and Ray is still standing in the bedroom in his boxers and needs Debra to help him put his suit on. So annoying.

If Ray didn't like the way Debra arranged things for the family picture he was intending to take all the credit for then he shouldn't have left it to her to do all the planning. He really should have known there was going to be payback when he let her down over seeing her parents at Christmas. If it had been me he'd have been lucky to get away with just having to cope with cranky Marie on the day of the photo shoot!

There was an episode where they were in some area of the world where safety was a real concern and the wife was going to be home alone all day with a baby. The idiot husband kept insisting that he wanted some feature or another, can't remember what it was now, when all the wife was asking was that they live in a secure area. That was too much to ask apparently. What a tool. I hope that particular argument was producer driven because otherwise, aaarrgh.

I do think if there has to be a choice made the person who is going to be spending the most time in the house should get the final say. That doesn't mean I think it's ok that the commuter gets to travel for 2 hours everyday just so the stay at home spouse gets a dishwasher or whatever but the episodes that drive me up the wall the most are the ones where the working spouse gets the final say even though they aren't even going to be home most of the time.

This was one of the things I love best about ELR. Most of the time the disagreements between Ray and Debra were pretty real life. Both were right, and both were wrong. Debra overreacted to the "not on the approved snack list" but Ray should have stayed out of it instead of trying to kiss Bryan's butt,

Also I know people's finances are not their long suit on this show but how is Peter paying rent on an apartment when his "customer base" for the comic book store is in Pennsylvania? Are we supposed to believe he's socked away his pennies for years and is living off his savings? And even if he has some savings the parent's concern is that he hasn't met Ms Right not that he may not be able to support himself? Weird.

Agreed. There are lots of occasions where we might theoretically purchase a special outfit knowing that we're not terribly likely to wear it often, or even again.- it won't be many years before Allie is going to proms and graduations and then friends weddings etc. The dress itself and it's price wasn't really the issue, at least for me. What bothered me was the damned expectation on Peggy's part that all the girls would dress alike and all the parents would not mind spending $250. This show was set in suburban New York not Hollywood!

Yeah I didn't see Debra as agreeing with Peggy about that specific dress more that she generally agreed that dressing up a bit for the party would be a good idea. I actually liked the way the story unfolded in that Ray got Allie the dress and then Debra and Allie got so excited about getting her ready to go. Then it all went to hell in a handcart because they decided it would be funnier to have the theme of the party change. I hated that. It ruined what had been a sweet moment between Allie and her parents. That's actually the main reason I can't watch this episode when it comes on.

The point is they felt no need to talk about Leonard saving money until Penny talked about hating her job and having debt. It's like they can never have both Leonard and Penny be in good places financially at the same time. And there's no real reason for it. The only thing that's changed in their lives is Penny is no longer a waitress/actress but instead has a job where she's outearning Leonard. It's just lazy writing and no concern at all for consistency. And I fearlessly predict it's a harbinger of things to come - I am betting Penny will quit her job next season.

The channel I watch ELR on has just cycled back to the first season and while all the characters developed and changed as the seasons progressed it's most noticeable in Robert. In the episodes I've just seen he comes across as insecure, jealous of Ray and a bit of a sad sack but he was also sweet and loveable. Contrast to later seasons Robert where he's loud and obnoxious. I swear I don't think there was an episode in the last two seasons where he wasn't shouting at someone about something.

The only thing Lorre et al are consistent about is their belief that people who work as scientists in universities are making a pittance. Major league irritant. Anyway with regard to that earlier episode I think the main reason they were stressing Penny being financially successful was to make her wondering about restarting her acting career seem even dumber than it was. In other words (contrary to all the foregoing seasons) Penny can't depend on Leonard's income if she wants to go back to acting. This year they have Penny talk about how she hates her job and magically Leonard has a savings account -- makes me wonder if they are going to have Penny try her luck at acting again after all and want us to know that Leonard could carry them both financially after all.

Unless they've kissed and made up recently I doubt Roseanne would appear on a Chuck Lorre show. He does have a history of bringing in actors from previous shows he's been involved with so if they've made peace with each other it could happen. It would be fun to see Roseanne and Laurie Metcalf together again.

The other day the episode where Ray and Robert golf to see who gets Marie after Frank dies was on. It was particularly hard to watch with both Frank and Marie now gone but the moment when Ray realizes that one day his mother will die, wow, I choked up. Aside from the particular poignancy in light of Doris Robert's recent death I should add that you can really see in that moment that Ray Romano has become a very fine actor!

I guess they aren't unknown anymore though as there was an episode after Howard's mother died where the father had been made aware of Mrs Wolowitz's death and Howard's half brother shows up at the door. I don't remember though if they ever explain why Howard's father never tried to contact his son after the divorce (other than that one letter).

I liked this one too. The only problem I had was, at least on the channel I watched it on, they had what felt like 10 minutes of commercials and then came back to the guys trying to contact their parents and Penny finding it funny - which was like what? A minute? Not impressed that I waited all that time for a minute's worth of show. I noticed they answered the question we had here about what Mary Cooper did for a living. It always felt odd that a middle aged woman with no family commitments and not from a monied background seemed to have no source of income. Now we know she works for the church. A secretary or something like that I guess.