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Posts posted by Dorne2.0

  1. I'm new to this show, I read the book and didn't think I could bear watch it. I just want to say something, OMG, I though Serena was being played by Portia De Rossi. Wow. They look identical. I was thinking, wow, Portia still looks so young!

  2. Why do you guys think of the Ed Westwick stuff? I am living abroad and just now caught up with the case, apparently he's been cleared and Netflix is going to keep working with him? I remember at the time I believed the accusers because they seemed credible, but I didn't follow up on the investigations... I was a huge fan before, what is your guys opinion here, is he innocent or is it just another case of an abuser getting away with rape? 

    Apparently it was a case of he said vs. she said, she said and she said. Three accusers makes me suspicious. If he is guilty I hope in the future he is caught, I don't think serial rapists just stop. Though it's better to hope that even if he is guilty he does stop, I don't want more women getting raped... maybe the fact he faced some consequences (losing a show on another network and Netflix paused his show second season for a year) is a silver lining. Not to mention the damage to his reputation, hopefully more women will be careful around him now (I know it's his responsability not to rape, but it's always good to know which men not to trust). 

    God, working in Hollywood seems like such a dangerous thing for women (and children), I can't phantom it's worth it.

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  3. I was molested by a beloved family member until I was 4 or 6, I can't remember exactly. My abuser was a woman (I'm a woman) and she was molested before by a family member too. I think that's why this documentary touched me so strongly. I completely understand these men refusal to look at it as abuse for so long, even after adulthood. But people don't understand that. They don't want to. They don't wanna believe child sexual abuse can feel like affection, they don't want to believe a mother would abuse her daughter. They don't want to believe you can still care about your abuser. They don't wanna believe abusers sometimes think they are doing nothing wrong but showing love or that touching, caressing and kissing their child's genitals is sexual abuse and not normal because it was done to them by their parents or grandparents. It's sad people are so attached to Michael Jackson's image to see what's obvious. They have never been through that kind of abuse, and they don't want to face their Beloved Idol is a pedophile.... They claim Wade and James defended MJ so strongly before, well so did a lot of Warren Jeff's child brides, they don't understand the victim's mindset. I watched that once, I just saw they were telling the truth, they'd have to be incredible actors and have an awful lot of insight into this kind of abuse to lie so well. It's disheartening you can even voice your opinion it's true without being attacked in most discussion sites online. 

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  4. On 4/18/2019 at 11:10 AM, Ubiquitous said:

    Oh my gosh! I had forgotten about Captain EO until reading that article! Wasn't MJ with a little boy in it?

    Wow, I remember someone talking about MJ speaking differently in private.

    Liza Minnelli said right after he died he talked with an adult voice with friends and it was all an act,

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  5. 30 minutes ago, Shakma said:

    Oh, they acknowledge that MJ did have an affinity for smaller, younger looking boys, then?

    For what purpose?

    I know! First thought on my mind reading that. They sound like they are basically admiting MJ would prefer younger kids... I guess deep down they know and don't care because it was their Idol, Michael Jackson.

    I think they possibly mean that it's not possible for MJ to abuse a kid who was taller than him, completely oblivious to the reality of sexual abuse. I mean the grooming that ocurred since age 9/10, I totally believe Michael wanted to "show his love for James" since he testified for him in the Jordan lawsuit.

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  6. 1 hour ago, Diane Mars said:

    And it's so weird, because the only other dad (and thanks to both of them ! Dad's are apparently more suspicious than mothers, in all those cases !) who was speaking -and then retracting- was Jame's dad 😢

    You mean Wade's dad. James' dad was always in support of Michael. And Latoya mentioned MJ making a 2 million dollars check to a garbage man, and James dad worked as a garbage man apparently. He died so I won't speak ill of the dead... (or is he ill and James didn't want to mention him?).

    I hope that Jordan has a good life now. He probably got access to his money at 18 or 21, hopefully after years of therapy. Jordan apparently offered to persue criminal charges if Gavin's case didn't go well but the statute of limitations had run out. Someone on this thread mentioned this.

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  7. 25 minutes ago, Diane Mars said:

    HOW is that possible that the abuses went for SO LONG ! Where were we when those boys were groomed and abused ? It makes me sick to read, again and again, the same story, in which only the names and dates are changed, but the story is always the same. That's insane ! 😭)

    "Jamie began to withdraw from everyone else, no longer playing with other kids. Eventually, he wouldn't speak to his father and six-year-old half-brother, even on the phone. He and Michael were quickly labeled "inseparable." They played with slingshots and squirt guns. They threw water balloons off the balcony of Michael's condo in Century City onto passing cars." 


     "It was the first night Michael and Jamie would share the same bed, Michael wearing sweats, Jamie wearing pajamas. Michael had rented The Exorcist, and Jamie got scared. His mother and sister stayed in another bedroom in the suite. The next night the two wanted to sleep together again. But a confrontation ensued, because Jamie's mother objected.

    At this point, claim insiders who believe the case against Jackson, Michael began to cry, telling Jamie's mother, "This is about being a family, not making judgments." He declared his love for each of them and pleaded, "Why don't you trust me? If we're a family, you've got to think of me as a brother. Why make me feel so bad? This is a bond. It's not about sex. This is something special." He then said Jamie could sleep wherever he wanted to. That did it—Jamie's mother was won over. From that night on, with few exceptions, she allowed 13-year-old Jamie and his 34-year-old rich and powerful friend to share the same bed for more than three months. Michael essentially moved in, and lived with Jamie in one room of the family's small, unpretentious house in Santa Monica Canyon while his little friend went to school."


    "Minor stated Mr. Jackson told minor that minor would go to Juvenile Hall if he told and that they'd both be in trouble. Minor also said Mr. Jackson told him about other boys he had 'done this with' but he didn't go as far with 'them.' [Jamie gave authorities the names of four other boys Michael allegedly told him about. Macaulay Culkin's name appeared in the report, but he has denied any wrongdoing on the part of Jackson.] Minor stated Mr. Jackson tried to make him hate his mo. and fa. so that he could only go to Mr. Jackson."


    "Then Jamie's father saw Jackson and Jamie in bed together. They were fully clothed, but his suspicions were aroused. Michael and Jamie told him, he has said, that they couldn't stand Jamie's mother, and that she hated his wife. They seemed to be playing the parents off against one another. Jamie's father eventually came to believe that because of Michael "there is no family anymore." Jamie's mother, with whom the dentist had always enjoyed a friendly relationship, scoffed at his concerns."

    Oh my God... there are some pretty gross details in there, but I'm quoting the grooming part because it shows how manipulative M.J was. Bastard.

    BTW, Jordan's dad deal was 20 million in a trust fund for Jordan and 2.5 million to each parent... 

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  8. 6 hours ago, SnK said:



    10 Undeniable Facts About the Michael Jackson Sexual-Abuse Allegations

    1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.

    2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”

    3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.

    4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

    5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

    6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

    7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.

    8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.

    9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.

    10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

    MJ also refers to Michael Jacobshagen as Rubba Rubba. And doesn't he refer to one the boys in that video posted before as applehead too? This is the book Jacobshagen says MJ gave him and it refers to him as Rubba Rubba and it's an art book of naked boys and teens. 


    On this video posted by Robert Lynch, at 00: 21 Michael says "he's an applehead". He called James Applehead and Wade Little One...

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  9. Wade had already said the items were fake. It was symbolic. Wade may not be a perfect victim, but I fully believe MJ sexually abused him, James and other children. 

    Really, Michael Jackson slept in bed with little boys and dumped them when they got older, he had "art books" of little boys and teen boys naked...alarms that told him when people got near his bedroom. Wade may not have handled the abuse well at first, but I believe the abuse ocurred, Michael is the one that is unbelievable.  Wade may not be the victim people would find most sympathetic but I have no problem understanding things Wade did that doesn't paint him in the best light, like his reaction of anger when his father  visited, or him testifying in 2005... selling those items? I do not care a bit.

    I believed in Jordan in the first place.

    Also, abused victims may need or want money as compensation too, and that is not awful, abusing kids is awful.


    2 hours ago, SnK said:


    About James we discussed it a lot already. 

    Michael and James when James was 16 in 1994, AFTER THE TRAIN STATION WAS BUILT. I have no doubt MJ also molested him in this time, since he said it was how they expressed their "love" to each other.

    james telling truth.jpg

    Dan Reed.png

    "Terry George was close friends with Michael Jackson between the ages of 13 and 15. He claims that Michael Jackson once sexually harassed him over the telephone when he was thirteen years old. According to him, it was a single incident."

    "Jordan Chandler was a 13-year-old boy who travelled with Michael Jackson in 1993. He spent 70 nights sleeping with Michael Jackson over a 5 month period. He later accused Michael Jackson of sexual abuse and Jackson payed him and his family off with 22 million dollars."

    "Michael Jacobshagen (1998). He has accused Jackson of molestation taking place when he was fourteen years old in 1998."

    Plus Gavin, Wade and James.

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  10. On 4/9/2019 at 2:20 PM, Blakeston said:

    I remember Norm MacDonald making fun of MJ. I'm glad he was willing to call out MJ for being a child molester, but I don't think he did it out of solidarity for his victims, or anything like that. The tone of it was more like "ha ha, look at this gay weirdo who likes little boys!"

    He made a big deal out of MJ being "gay," even though a grown man who molests pre-pubescent boys is certainly not gay. MacDonald has a long history of being very homophobic and offensive in general. He's lost a lot of gigs lately because of his insistence on defending Roseanne.

    I see your point, I wasn't old enough to watch SNL when Norm was there, I just saw these compilations lately and thought he had a dark sense of humor, and  it was a comedy show so his delivery had to be funny. I checked on his O.J Simpson jokes and they are pretty savage too, and dark, like when he said Ron's last words were probably "Hey! You are O. J. Simpson!" (if I were Ron's family I would be hurt by that joke.). Though I did gave the expression homossexual pedophile a second look, I guess I thought "Well, those were the lates 90's".

  11. Just now, RealReality10 said:

    Yes 😞

    I just don't think I could listen to mj without risking a rage stroke.  

    I could not sleep at night when I watched. It's pretty horrendous. Word of advice, don't try to discuss it with Mj's cult of fans. It is pointless. They are spreading false information (saying the FBI investigated MJ for ten years and found nothing - it's false, they never did a independant investigation on him, they gave the police tech support and investigated an indidual who was trying to extort MJ, said individual went to jail). And they keep trying to pick the men's stories apart, they expect them to remember everything perfectly (it happened decades ago). His fans are making death threats to anyone who say they believe in these men on Facebook or on Youtube. And they keep repeating the same things to try and destroy these two men. It's kind of crazy, I got attacked on youtube and there was always a bunch of replies with huge texts. I had to block notifications.

    • Like 4

  12. 13 hours ago, Kostgard said:

    That’s the amazing/infuriating thing about the spoofs and the Norm MacDonald stuff - we knew. On some level, we all knew (except the people who swallowed his wounded star child bullshit) and we always knew. A grown man sharing his bed with children who aren’t his own just ain’t right and sets off the alarm bells in most reasonable people. 

    But because he was Michael Jackson, no one did anything about it, so we did what you do when you feel helpless or cynical about a situation - you make jokes about it. Except now there are names to those faces we saw with MJ. Robert Smigel jokes about MJ and boys in Budapest? Yeah, that joke was probably based on James, who accompanied MJ to that city. Now it’s kind of a kick in the gut because we see the results of what MJ was doing.

    And the thing that gets me about the super-fans who cry “Why didn’t the parents see what was happening if it was so terrible? Why did they let their kids around him?” and mark that down as proof that it never happened is they can’t even see the parallels. I want to say, “Because they were just like you. They saw MJ as a god who could do no wrong and they waved away anything suspicious or negative as impossible.” Then they learned the truth. Even Wade’s sister said, “I was one of those people who assumed his accusers just wanted money. Now I’m on the other side of it.”

    You are right, realizing we all let him get away with it, or that we felt helpless about not being able do do anything but make jokes, maybe that's why its so infuriating now and why we fell so protective of these men. We, as a society, failed them. So that's why it pisses me off when people try and destroy their credibility or make death threats. I am tired of the same old excuses "Wade dated Brandi, James got a date wrong". My parents were fans but we haven't really bought any of his music since the Jordan case and now I can't even listen to it again without feeling sick.

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  13. 8 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

    Whoa! Those were savage attacks! I didn't watch SNL during those years, so I had no idea! How did he not get sued? How did Michael not get arrested? 

    Wow, now I really want to hear Norm McDonald's reaction to Leaving Neverland! He must feel so vindicated! 

    He was incredible. I guess Jackson didn't want to make it look like it got to him, and those were other times. I don't find the abuse funny, but this guy constantly reminding people that MJ was a pedophile was great.

    Just like 30 Rock had that scene that hinted at Bill Cosby. Just look for 30 Rock Bill Cosby on Youtube.

    • Like 7

  14. 5 hours ago, Melina22 said:

    Probably some people would say this isn't a laughing matter, but I've always believed that humour is one of the best ways we have to deal with and heal from pain. Personally, I found it funny and it helped me feel better. And clearly this documentary has reached a very wide audience. 

    I agree and I have to confess that I love this video: 

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  15. On 3/4/2019 at 5:42 PM, maggiegil said:

    This was suggested to me on youtube probably as I watched the trailer on there. I don't understand the cognitive dissonance of acknowledging that he had inappropriate relationships with boys, sleeping, showering with them etc. but refusing point blank to entertain the idea that he could have molested them. It really shows the power of celebrity.

    Any other man who did what he admitted he did with young boys just even sleeping in the same bed as them would in no way get any kind of benefit of the doubt. If you watch the Bashir documentary, hes grooming his victim and I believe it happened to the men in the doc too.

    How come the victims motivation can be called into question but the familys motivation to protect their cash cow isn't being questioned.

    I just watched this video and I hate Wendy. Seriously, she didn't even watch at that point and is saying MJ is innocent.

    She even defends Joe Jackson who was accused of abuse by Michael himself, not to mention Latoya. 

    What kind of sociopath is her? I wonder if the family paid her off to try and sway public opinion.

    "Joe Jackson did the best he could raising that family?" Come on, they have to have bought her off. No one in the world believes Joe Jackson was not abusive to his children. How many family members and friends of the family have said he was? I remember a friend of Michael in a documentary saying that once Michael said that if Joe ever hit him again he wouldn't sing anymore.

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  16. Guys, this is the creepiest documentary I've ever watched. It's about MANBLA and so calle "boy lovers". Did you guys noticed how the blond pedo describes him relationships with kids as beautiful and even talks in a voice not to diffrent to Michael's, like childlike ? The pedo uses the phrase "celestial warm".... I just see a lot in common between the two.


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  17. 5 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

    Same here. I also wish Roman Polanski and Woody Allen would hurry up and cack it already.

    I am so busy and I cannot stop thinking abou James, Wade, Gavin and Jordan. Or the women that Kelly is keeping in his cult. I am haunted by those documentaries. I never watched any of Roman Polanski movies other than The Pianist. But seriously with the injustice MJ victims suffered and are suffering (Jordan at least got money to start his life over and to pay the best mental care to try and heal) but Gavin and his family were humiliated and destroyed at his trial. I feel like if R. Kelly walks I might be very depressed.

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  18. On 3/26/2019 at 5:56 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

    When I read of Streisand's comments, my first thought was that she must have severe cognitive decline. That is the ONLY explanation I can come up with.  Her follow up remarks make no sense and don't convince me otherwise.  For a person to think like what she said originally, BOGGLES the mind.  But, whatever, the reason, I don't think that she has any idea what she did for/'to her own name.  Even though she's a true legend, I can't imagine that she is going to be invited to any kind of events, awards, tributes, etc. for a very long time.  Maybe, never.  From what I hear she doesn't like public events anyway, so, I suppose that won't matter to her. But, her ignorant comments have tainted her name and that's unfortunate.  I'm not sure why celebrities think there is something to be gained by defending MJ.  They just don't get it.

    Much of the same goes for Diana Ross. She's toast too, imo.  For her to feel compelled to PRAISE this wonderful force!  OMG.....she has to be off mentally. To tell people who were abused to Stop in the name of love......after being sexually abused?  Boggles the mind.  She's toast, in my mind now too. 


    Will there come a day when when MJ name and body of work is mentioned and the listener will say, "Meh..."    

    History will remember Michael Jackson as a dangerous pedophile. I hope so.

    BTW: If R.Kelly is found not guity I will be so very angry.

    • Like 15

  19. 17 hours ago, Fable said:

    I have no problem believing Michael was developmentally stunted in as much as maintaining an adult relationship for him was not an option.  However, if as alleged, he told the boys that they would both go to jail for what they were doing, he certainly knew his actions were not legal. 

    Even if someone was to think he never touched the kids sexually, how can you look at pictures of him in bed with Emmanuel Lewis and the baby bottles and not even accept that his behavior was inappropriate, sick and wrong.  At the very least, what he did was emotionally damaging to these children. 

    Even if it was just friendships, he clearly gave them the world and made them believe he loved them and then he dumped them as they got older. Apparently he didn't like adults, but he himself could be a child in an adults body.  The emotional manipulation, the mental manipulation, that is abuse in itself.

    • Like 8
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  20. 2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

    I see the article indicates that one of the 'stars' of this film is Brandi, Michael's niece.  I watched an interview with her and reported on it earlier in this thread.  In short, she was Wade's first girlfriend from the time they were 12 or so until they were 18.  She claims that Wade must be lying because, a) in all their years of dating, he never told her that her uncle had molested him and b) they ultimately broke up when she found out Wade had cheated on her while touring with Brittney Spears so he is obviously a liar who lies about everything.  And the Jackson defenders think Wade and James' stories are full of holes?   Another person interviewed is a sound engineer who worked with Michael in the studio where a lot of the boys were hanging around over the years.  How does he know Michael wasn't a pedophile?  Because he never saw Michael sexually assault a kid in the studio, of course, because, apparently, pedophiles attack their victims out in the open.  Also, he saw a lot of boys over the years and not a single one was unhappy or afraid or showed any signs of abuse; so clearly nothing bad ever happened to them in Michael's presence.  Finally, there's another interview with one of Michael's nephews who talks about the personal notes that Wade and James received from MJ which were flattering and encouraging.  Well, Michael wrote notes like that to him, too, and he was never molested; so, if Michael wrote similar things to Wade and James, there's your proof that they couldn't have been molested, either.

    Once again, the Jackson family continues to ignore all of the information that is out there about pedophiles and how they operate and how their victims react in order to spin the fantasy that Michael was just too wonderful and childlike to have done it.  The fact that their so-called defense of Michael is so very, very weak indicates just how impossible it is to defend him.  They cannot claim he was never alone with young boys, that there were always adult chaperones, they aren't saying that he didn't have multiple security systems in place to warn him when anyone approached his bedroom.  They cannot even say that Michael didn't give the boys extravagant and somewhat inappropriate gifts (a wedding ring for a little kid? cars? houses?).  They're grasping at straws here and it shows.

    Well, I live in Brazil and before in the U.S and I was never mugged, robbed, never have been a victim of kidnapping and have never witnessed gun violence. Therefore, none of these things EVER happens in these two countries, they are the safest countries in the world.

    • Like 7
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  21. On 4/5/2019 at 3:44 PM, Razzberry said:

    It's funny to hear them accuse anyone of lying.   Jackson is sole person throughout this who seemed so false and lying about everything.  Runner-up would be that favorite of pedophiles, wife killers and violent thugs, Los Angeles "Criminal Defense Lawyer of the Year"  Tom Mesereau. 

    Dan Reed said he would love to make a film about the 2005 trial, but this is almost too much to hope for. 

    Michael Jackson and James spend a lot of time together when James was 16 years old in 1994, after the train station was build.


    (...)  James protected Jackson. As a “thank you for staying by my side”, Jackson invited James one more time in 1994, when he was 16 years old to Budapest:

    He molested Wade a last time when Wade testified against him, right? While James says there wasn't "any molestation on that vacation, since Jackson’s wife Lisa Marie Presley was also around. In 1994-1995, Jackson allowed James to work with him. He was working on Jackson’s Earth Song video." 

    James took the photos of the train station too right? I completely believe MJ molested James at lest one more time at that age, probably when he tried anal play as James described in the documentary, the last time abuse happened. He was probably ashamed he was 16 and either consciously or subconsciously told himself it happened when he was younger.

    I mean, many people believe people can consent to sex at 16 with whoever they want. Remember the show Pretty Little Liars in which Arya had a relationship at 16 with her teacher? James had reason to fear admiting he was raped at that age.

    james telling truth.jpg

    Michael and James when James was 16 in 1994, AFTER THE TRAIN STATION WAS BUILT. I have no doubt MJ also molested him in this time, since he said it was how they expressed their "love"to each other.


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