lawless

So no one’s posting and I recognize that this may just be speaking into a void, but I am enjoying this show still. Harlan is hot and while I respect Maghra for remaining faithful to Baba Voss, I am a little bummed for her that she never got intimate with Harlan. Also find Harlan’s apparent loyalty to her interesting, even though his self interest is obvious — but he could plot against her anyway and I like that he hasn’t. Hope it stays that way, I like that Baba Voss would probably like to have an excuse to get rid of him — but there isn’t one, so he has to suck it up, which can be funny.

Me too - his humor is one of his most likable qualities, plus I like his voice. Hope he sticks around. I like Harlan also because he brings some humor and levity — the show doesn’t have quite as much beautiful scenery this season (more urban decay), so I’m glad there’s some added humor to lighten things up a bit. I like Charlotte too.

I love Alfre Woodard and was totally delighted to see her get a surprise romance storyline with Toad (who I also enjoy as a side character) — go Paris! Too bad they were so rudely interrupted but Paris apparently expected something which is why they camped there. Hope Toad doesn’t get killed now. I was also surprised to see Lord Harlan speared through the torso, and like him too. I presume he will recover, I hope they don’t abruptly wrap his character up like Jerlamerel.

Clever, I didn’t think of that regarding their names. Anyone know the origin of the name Trivantes? I don’t know all that much about Pennsylvania apparently, have no guesses.

So among other reactions, I like Harlan? Is that wrong? He doesn’t really seem like a villain currently — ambitious and not necessarily trustworthy, yes, but not malicious and sometimes funny. I feel for Baba Voss of course, and Harlan surely would like to get rid of him and be King to Queen Maghra (and a backstabbing plot by Harlan is probably coming) but I am enjoying him for the moment. I also really enjoy Toad. He and Harlan add some wit to the show that is a nice break from the drama and brawls. Do you think Kofun is any safer (ie more “special” and thus of more use to Sibeth) than Boots or Sibeth’s other lackey? Of course she’ll turn on anyone but I wonder if she’s trying to get pregnant with a sighted child again and reconfigure the narrative around the specialness of royal sighted blood using Kofun in a way she couldn’t with Boots by capitalizing on the incest. (Eww, but it’s there)

I assume the Payan people must be heavily socialized to accept royal rule from her family, and go along with it? Because yes, otherwise it seems a stretch that anyone would tolerate her. Leaders do have to deliver something to their people, at least to the aristocracy, or they get toppled and replaced. The show is doing well at showing the Queen’s vulnerability but she offers so little but demands and crazy that it’s hard to see her lasting long. I like the way the show costumes reflect texture, as this would seem like it would take heightened importance in a world of the blind. But I balk a little at the realism of the color consistency in different fabrics, like the Queen’s red dress and so on. It’s a small thing, but there. However, the costumes are nicer for it, so I don’t get too spun up about it. Edit obviously suspects Wren helped our heroes escape, and perhaps that she is sighted and I worry for her. Not sure why he hasn’t questioned and/or tortured her, and dread it. Hope she slips away unscathed. Who are the Ganites they keep referring to? People from Michigan maybe?

I was shocked that they wrapped up Jerlamerel‘s involvement in the story so quickly, I thought he’d become an antagonist seeking vengeance against Baba Voss, and that his drive for medical treatment that would restore his sight would lead to uncovering old technologies or something, but I guess not. Now that the show has introduced Wren and past emergences of sighted people, he isn’t so unique or significant to the story — but somehow I felt that wrapped things up a little too fast. Oh well. I like the new bodyguards and Paris backstory. Interesting that the sighted people rapidly moved from outcasts to pawns in an arms race.

I think so — but her existence suggests that there could be others other than the progeny of Jerlamerel, which is interesting.

Any one know where Trivantia is supposed to be in our world?

Still here, watching this show. Was nice that it’s back though this episode wasn’t especially gripping. Nevertheless I do like that Tom Misson has been added to the show along with David Bautista. I also like the reveal that there are people who do not seem to be related to Jerlamerel who have sight — I was worried that things might get very creepily incesty after the end of the last season. Just a vibe and of course this show still might, but anyway, it’s interesting that Jerlamerel is not quite as unique as we (and he) previously thought. The opening credits clearly suggest returning/gaining sight so if will be interesting to see where this goes this season.

I’m glad someone else watched the show and enjoyed it too. I had to binge it on my phone, which is too bad because the scenery truly was gorgeous and I wish I had seen it on a bigger screen. I think the cast really put their heart into it and tried to make the show really fly. I have to concede that the writing and believability of the show was not always what I hoped, but I enjoyed it anyway. I liked that Jerlamerel turned out to be a false prophet, and his fight scene with Jason Momoa was crazy. I am not sure how I feel about Momoa having blinded him, I did not see that coming. Interesting that in his mind his children turned out to be more disposable than they ever imagined. In the earlier part of the show, before we met boots, they seem to be incredibly special. It was an interesting revelations that while they were important to Jerlamerel he viewed them as replaceable commodities. It sounds as though he is assuming that sight is a dominant trait that they all pass on to their offspring. However, it’s not clear that that’s true if they continue to have children with at least one blind parent. On the other hand, I guess given the number of sighted children that he had he may be correct. I also liked that they made him into a false prophet, and his fight scene with Jason Momoa was crazy. I am not sure how I feel about Momoa having blinded him, and leaving him for dead. It does not seem realistic to me that either he or Momoa will recover from their injuries from all of the fighting. However, I’ll just go with it. As for Boots, the impression I have from the story his mother told is that he is mentally unwell to some degree. I also wasn’t entirely sure why he shifted his allegiances to the queen, except that perhaps he wanted to hedge his bets since he had kind of done away with Maghra’s family. If she ever finds out about it, or just gets suspicious of him, she will probably kill him, and therefore it may pay to have a connection to the queen. Also, since the queen is more ruthless and power-hungry, he may figure that she is a better match for him In the long run.

Well, it sure is quiet around here, but I wanted to chime in to say, flaws and all, I enjoy this show. The cinematography is beautiful, and I’m enjoying Momoa and his man bun. Gotta admit I mostly ignored Maghra as a character, and I was surprised at the reveal this ep. I picked up on the obvious clues before the reveal, but not until this episode. Then looking back I now see the groundwork. So, flawed show for sure, but I’m into it and want more. i also like that Kofun is mature and loyal to his family, and treats his blind family and tribe as equals— he’s a nice young man. More shallowly I think Alfre Woodard looks gorgeous in her costume and like the hair.

Oh my god — ridiculous, ridiculous!! But I’ll take it — the Walking Dead world probably doesn’t work for me without Rick Grimes in it somewhere. Even if I don’t see him. Thank god he was a “B”.

The stuff with red and 5k was confusing -- I think Sun Mei did not see them, and she looked at him strangely when he was talking to them and saying d we don't have time for this -- I think she meant his delusions. I ended up thInking they aren't real! I hope I'm wrong, but that was my interpretation. On a more shallow note, Warren looked gorgeous in that coat. Seemed like they are laying the groundwork for a rebellion of Murphy's acolytes once they realize he wants to eat their brains. It's Murohy's secret for now, but what happens when they find out about Helen?

Is the actress who plays Addie pregnant? It seems like her outfit is maybe designed to hide her midsection in lots of ruffles, she seems like she fights less than usual, it seems like the camera focuses less on her whole body than before, and that might explain the plot line of having her have a mysterious dental problem a couple eps ago -- in case she was feeling too sick for major fight scenes. Just speculation on my part, but I wonder.

To this, I just wanted to add that Ramsey sent those same dogs after Sansa and Theon when they escaped in the hopes that those dogs would tear her and Theon apart, and Theon mentioned having seen what they could do, and that drowning in an ice cold stream was "better." Myranda also gloatingly told Sansa about the way that Ramsey had treated various other young women, including one of his lovers whom he made pregnant (very boring, she said) - I don't remember if she specifically mentioned the dogs, but the message was clear. So Sansa's actions weren't just about vengeance for herself, in all fairness, but avenged the torture and murder of countless other girls and women who Ramsey killed for his amusement. All things considered, Ramsey's death was "poetic justice," and this story is called A Song of Ice and Fire -- I'd feel a bit cheated if Ramsey just got a nice, quiet, Ned-like execution. Would this be a morally neutral thing to do in real life? No, I agree that it was morally a bad thing to do. But there are degrees of bad, as Lady Olenna pondered when talking to Cersei, and this was not even close to as bad as the things Ramsey did to people -- which he did to women and children largely because he took sexual pleasure in the torture and suffering of the weak and (usually I think) innocent. Sansa subjecting such a depraved monster to the same fate to which he consigned so many innocents wasn't a great thing to do, I'll concede that, but it wasn't anywhere near the level of monstronsity of Ramsey's behavior. I wouldn't do it, and would discourage it, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it, and I have no sense that Sansa's now looking for her next execution-by-ravenous-dog opportunity. This seems like a one-off. I'm ok with it, and I think Ned would be too.

To clarify, I know that she contacted Littlefinger before -- she would have to do so if there would be any chance that the Vale army could be in a position to help them by the time of the battle. But we don't know what she said and what their arrangement was -- I was thinking that she might have told Littlefinger to have the Vale army in position and ready to intervene, but to stand down if it looked like Jon's army could succeed. To minimize the debt owed to Littlefinger and the Vale, to the extent possible. I assume the men of the Vale would be just as happy not to have to risk their necks in battle if it could be avoided, while getting some "credit" for showing up willing to fight. I think Sansa's dilemma was that she (mostly) trusts Jon's character and morals, but she began to doubt his judgment. She absolutely does not trust Littlefinger's character and morals, but she has come to trust his judgment -- and he had a fresh army to dangle in front of her. Sansa reasonably doubted Jon's battle plans, his understanding of the strengths of Ramsey's sadism, and she doubted that he would accurately understand the danger of Littlefinger. So she didn't want to involve Littlefinger unless she had too, to protect herself and Jon, and possible the North as a whole for all she knows. That doesn't mean she wouldn't have contacted Littlefinger days earlier -- obviously she would have to if the Vale army was going to get to Winterfell before the battle. But that doesn't mean she had yet committed herself to getting the Vale army actually involved in the battle, and it would make some sense not to tell Jon about the possibility because he would undoubtedly take them up on it, unaware of the strings, if not outright dangers, that Littlefinger poses. He doesn't just desire Sansa, he made Lyssa believe that he adored and loved her all their lives, manipulated her into killing her Lord husband and framing the Lannisters, and then he ultimately threw her out the Moondoor. He successfully conspired to kill Joffrey, the King, grandson of Tywin Lannister, he's managed to take complete control over the Vale by manipulating Sansa's very weird, weak cousin. . . and so on. Sansa knows about these things, but still doesn't know what Littlefinger's ultimate goals are, nor how she, Jon, and the rest of the North might fit into them. I think Sansa began to realize that Jon would not be able to fully appreciate the risk Littlefinger poses, and that he would have been completely out of his depth dealing with a person like that. Had Jon and the gang known about those troops though, it seems inevitable that they would have used them, unaware of the strings attached and the danger of getting involved with Littlefinger. So if there was any chance Jon might pull it off by himself, she would have preferred to have kept Littlefinger and the Vale out of it. But, though she doesn't know anything about battle strategy and wasn't in a position to make counterproposals to Jon other than to try to get more troops from other Northern Houses, she knew enough to see that things were looking grim, and decided to at least take the steps necessary to put the Vale army in play, if it came to that, hence the Raven to Littlefinger. We have no idea how long the Vale army was there, poised to intervene. Maybe they had just arrived, but maybe they were there by the start of the battle, and Ramsey didn't notice them. Seems ridiculous that he wouldn't, but on the other hand, Jaime Lannister and his 8,000 man army just snuck up on the Freys so apparently that's a thing in Westeros.

I think his primary purpose is to vouch for Yara, for what that's worth to other people. Also, he had actually met Tyrion, maybe that helped get them an audience with Dany? While Tyrion's grudge against Theon seemed unfair and petty given all we've seen Theon go through, I had to remind myself that Tyrion knows nothing about it, and may not realize Theon's imprisonment with the Boltons was nearly so bad as it was. Theon was quite an arrogant prick back in the day, it's amazing how much has changed. Which Tyrion wouldn't know about of course, so it was a nice opportunity to remind us of the contrast. I think Dany was amused by Yara's moxie, and delighted at the unexpected and unsolicited help from Westeros. If I were them I would take it as a good sign. I wonder if she'll have to enroll the Dothraki and Ironborn in some kind of no more raping and enslaving sensitivity classes or something. I don't know that I would necessarily have agreed to give the Iron Islands total autonomy though, I would have made them more like Dorne. After all, Yara and Theon have some ships that they need, but Yara and Theon don't really have anywhere else to go where they will be safe from Euron. They need Dany as much or more than she needs them. Maybe this is the first step in how the Greyjoy words will go from "We do not sow" to "Eight arms to hug you with."

Missed chunks of the episode because I couldn't help but switch back and forth between this show and the rerun of Game of Thrones, but I did see the Deacon true confessions attempt with Cassie and I was amazed at how bad I felt for Deacon of all people. I loved the twist that he had a crush on her from when he was a kid and she was some type of TV celebrity doctor/hero. I wished she'd at least given him a hug or something -- both 'cause I felt bad for him, but also it seems smarter to keep on Deacon's good side, all things considered. He's become oddly lovable, but also remains terrifying.

I was blown away by this episode, even as I recognized there were some story and character flaws -- but the direction and filming of the battle scenes was just incredible, so flaws and all, I just loved it. Watched it again after reading all these posts and had some thoughts: Secretive Sansa: She was obviously deeply worried about their situation and frustrated that Jon seemed resolutely committed to attacking with only about half the troops that Ramsey had and with no understanding of Ramsey's skills at psychological warfare, but she admitted herself that she was not able to offer other suggestions or plans because she doesn't know anything about battle strategy -- yet her intuition was right on that they were in serious, deadly trouble. She may also have been picking up on Jon's extreme moroseness/maybe death-wish, and started to freak, particularly after actually seeing Ramsey in person again. I don't think she was hypocritical about the chances of saving poor Rickon -- when she first talked about saving him, things were looking up for her for the first time in ages -- she'd escaped Ramsey, Brienne appeared out of no where and saved her and took her safely to Castle Black where Jon was Lord Commander, he received her warmly, they were envisioning lots of support from northern houses. . . I think at that point, she genuinely believed saving Rickon was possible, and that Jon would figure it out if he just tried, and she just had to motivate him and help rally the North to his side. After the massive failure of their rally-the-troops-tour, the Blackfish's unexpected demise, Brienne's continued absence, actually encountering Ramsey again, and the realization that Jon had no plan as to how to save Rickon other than to somehow miraculously beat Ramsey in battle with half the number of troops, and most of them horseless wildings -- she got the score. I don't think her change in expectations was hypocritical so much as the hardened realism her experiences have given her. And she was right. She didn't know how Ramsey would bait Jon, but that he would, and successfully, because Ramsey's obscene sadism and indecency give him an enormous advantage, especially when he is in possession of a kid that you love. Which, thanks to the fucking SmallJon, he was. Upon re-watch I noticed that when she and Littlefinger arrive with the Knights of the Vale, Sansa initially looks very grim and unhappy, while Littlefinger looks gleeful and smug, as usual. When the battle starts to turn, Sansa then smiles triumphantly, but my best interpretation of her looks and behavior is that Sansa did not want to ask for Littlefinger's help unless there was absolutely no chance they could prevail without it. I think that's why she said nothing to Jon, got increasingly frustrated with him, and did not contact Littlefinger until after they'd had so much failure getting supporters and yet Jon insisted on engaging Ramsey in battle anyway. I think she still held out hope that Jon could figure out a way to prevail, maybe even right up to the moment Ramsey forced Jon into the field in that futile attempt to save Rickon. I would even guess that Littlefinger and Sansa mutually agreed the Knights of the Vale would enter the battle to turn the tide and ensure a Stark win, but only if it appeared really necessary. This would minimize the losses to the Vale, which is good for Littlefinger, and maybe in Sansa's mind reduce their obligation to him as well as the credit he'd take for the win. We suspect that Littlefinger will want Sansa to marry him, sleep with him, or who knows. I think Sansa fears that as well, but by now she probably also worries that whatever Littlefinger wants from them, it may be much worse than that, in ways they can't yet fathom. So she avoided taking him up on his offer until it appeared there was no possible other way. Alternatively, maybe the show is planting seeds of a conflict over Winterfell between true-born, but female, Sansa, and male-but-a-bastard, Jon. If so, that would be a reason to keep things secret from Jon, and to allow troops loyal specifically to him to serve as cannon fodder, while preserving the support from the Vale for herself, and it would also reduce the number of wildlings, solving the problem of feeding and housing them, and getting the North to accept them. Very cynical, Tywin-esque move there, if that was the plan. I hope not, because the last thing I want now is Stark family members fighting among themselves, and Sansa becoming that cynical and ruthless. The Fucking SmallJon and the North that Selectively Remembers: Boy I really, really hoped they'd have the Umbers turn on the Boltons. The actor who played the SmallJon was kinda hot and charismatic for a second fiddle character, and the dissent in the ranks of the Boltons was a great storyline in the books. He and his troops bellowing out "Who holds the North? WE DO! Who holds the North? WE DO! SHOW ME!" was intimidating and impressive, and I am sad for the North to lose such ferocious fighters, who will be missed in the wars to come. But if the SmallJon could just have talked to Jon about the wildings south of the wall and cut a deal or something, Rickon and Shaggy Dog might still be alive, they could have agreed to fight the Boltons and let the wildings have the former Dreadfort (to be re-named Fort Wun Wun, so far as I'm concerned), getting them out of the Umber's hair, and the SmallJon could have gone back to bear hunting or whatever else Umbers do to amuse themselves while waiting for winter to set in. Stupid SmallJon -- you know Ramsey was no good and you were so close to being awesome, but ended up being responsible for so much tragedy. If Ramsey had not had Rickon in his possession, and if the Small Jon had delivered him to Jon Snow instead, so much would have been different -- so many more houses would have felt obligated to support the Starks. Kind of like the GreatJon, who had the bright idea that Robb should be King in the North, which pitted the North against the real Baratheons and substantially limited their options for dealing with Ned's execution. Fucking Umbers. Great fighters, but that's why they're apparently not contenders for Warden of the North I guess. R.I.P. Rickon and Wun Wun: RIP to them both. I was very sad we didn't get to see the "wild little brother" Ramsey wrote about and his direwolf Shaggy Dog. Poor kid, Ramsey really is a monster. Yet I was equally if not more saddened to see the passing of Wun Wun, last of his kind. He was fantastic. I wish they had thought to have him just barge right through the encircling shield troops and just run through the Bolton troops in a circle, stomping on men and tearing them apart as he ran the perimeter. That might have been enough of a distraction to break the wall of shields and enable the Stark forces to get out of the trap. Oh well, easier said than done I guess. Wun Wun was amazing, and they couldn't have broken into Winterfell without him. Rest well, Wun Wun. Ghost: I agree that there's no way he could realistically have survived that battle. I hope Jon left him at the Wall with Edd. Edd's completely trustworthy, owes Ghost, and could use a friend up there, four-footed or otherwise, to watch his back.

Yidu seemed to be playing things pretty smart if she was attempting to slowly make her way home, but cutting Ragnar off AND threatening to reveal his secret about what happened to the settlers in Wessex was a foolish misstep that sealed her doom -- I was so disappointed in her. She initially seemed an unrealistic character, and also not very interesting, but she got a lot more interesting when it started to look like she was manuvering Ragnar to gain her freedom and go "home," whatever that means to her. Addicting Ragnar to drugs and using her knowledge of Frankish to get out of Kattegat and into Frankia was clever. But I guess she got impatient and underestimated Ragnar, to her sorrow. I think the real reason he killed her was because she reminded him she knew his secret and vaguely threatened to tell. If she had better understood Ragnar she might have managed to get away, either by sneaking away once the Warriors left or by playing on his sympathies. Bad move, disappointing. Though he can be awful, I really do pity Aethlewulf the loss of Kwenthrith. He always seemed so unhappy until they hooked up. A shame Ecbert didn't offer Kwenthrith something more to placate her, and remind her that Aethlewulf would return, to calm her down. Oh well.

Michonne and Rick were very thrilling unexpected surprise – but now I am very scared for Michonne!

I love the show, and enjoyed the episode, or parts of it, but there were just some acts of stupidity on Rick's part that I can't get past. They should have snuck into the "armory" before attempting plan B. They could have stocked up on needed weapons for the trip to the vehicles AND it would have been a much more sensible place to leave Judith, Father Gabriel, Sam and probably Ron. It's also where the food is located and a much better choice than the church. Inexplicable to me that they wouldn't go there rather than try their luck in the herd with a kid as young and fragile as Sam. Even if he hadn't freaked, he cannot run as fast as the others, and running at some point was likely to be necessary, he can't fight or drive, and he requires constant parenting and protection. What happened seemed inescapable if they kept him with them out in the open. I cannot fathom why Rick didn't go to the armory, get supplies, and stash the kids. I understand not wanting to let your kids out of your sight but they were lucky to have managed to get anywhere and were obviously pushing their luck with the kids every minute they were in the herd. Also have no idea what they did all day -- plenty of time for a pit stop at the armory before full night fell. It really took me out of the show, as it seemed the only real reason for that decision was to contrive the deaths of the Andersons and loss of Carl's eye.

Many things wrong with this episode -- mainly Daryl's kidnappers and their story didn't make sense. It sounded like they had been in the same general area in the forest the whole ZA and hooked up with the group of baddies who demand "payment" for whatever, but that seems impossible. They'd run out of supplies and have to move large distances and scavage pretty quickly in such circumstances and they'd have to have way better walker killing survival skills than the exhibited living that way. And they never encountered anyone from Alexandria the whole time? Maybe I missed something. Also, is it just me or is anyone else disgusted with Abraham's sudden willingness to throw over Rosita for Sasha? I've always liked all three characters, and I hate this triangle. Rosita deserves better than to be dumped by the likes of Abraham. And they didn't build a growing closeness between Abraham and Sasha, nor a distancing between Abraham and Rosita, so this just came out of left field. And it's icky!

So late to the party that the party (and the show) are over, but just watched what we now know was the series finale and really enjoyed it. I am surprised at how much I think I will miss it, but the character beats and resolutions in this episode were very moving and satisfying. I was weirdly moved by Stahma telling Amanda that she regrets that she can never be her friend - that was a nice bit of honesty on Stahma's part. Everyone went out on a nice note and I was moved by Datak freaking Tarr as well, of all people. I really will miss the characters and actors from this strange, colorful show. I feel like the show still had more to offer, but this was a well done end.