Turtle

Have I mentioned lately that I can't believe these people actually believe those are actual tears? Vanessa has So. Many. Tells that she's lying, and none of them ever pick up on it. It's driven me crazy all season.Oooh, now Austin and Liz are fighting/ crying. Austin winning may be the best thing for our viewing pleasure. Plus, Liz leaving, especially this way, splits Julia from Austin for sure.

The drama is already turned up to 11. Apparently, Austin accused Vanessa and Julia of something shady during the comp, and Liz cheered when Austin won. Vanessa is already covering bases, promising the twins that she didn't throw it (but of course she threw it) and now throwing Austin under the bus to Julia and telling Julia that Liz is going. Julia chose Austin instead of JMac in one round, and that seems to be a major issue, I guess because Austin had to choose whether to knock her out or to knock himself out. It was some sort of maybe bowling comp where they picked competitors in rounds, like in the music comp. I was right- it's going to be a crazy week!

I'm excited for this week. Should be lots of interesting game talk going on. At least, I hope so. I think Vanessa absolutely threw the last HoH. Winning that would have been terrible for her, requiring her to pick a side and announce it to the house. Instead, she's 95% safe this week, with everyone still thinking she's on their side going in to F5. I bet she throws veto too, unless it's down to just her and Julia. Even if Julia wins veto, Vanessa probably stays. Julia would of course take down Liz, so the votes would be Liz, Julia, and John. Julia is closer to Vanessa than she is to Austin (by a lot) and it wouldn't take much for her to vote to evict Austin. The twins have been really easily swayed by Vanessa all season and it's possible they'd BOTH evict Austin once she was done with them. Especially if Liz is pissed that Austin didn't pull a Clay for her. She's already been laying the groundwork with Julia for *not* using the veto, which is insane. I really don't enjoy the way that she's doing it, and I don't like watching her, but Vanessa has managed to convince people to vote against their own self interest several times. John definitely keeps Vanessa. Of course, it's also possible that Vanessa talks Steve in to putting John up. He knows he shouldn't, but I'm not sure he has the intestinal fortitude to stand up to her if she harangues him for a day. So, she may not leave even if Julia wins veto, is all I'm saying. Obviously, not a sure thing, but if Vanessa wins veto, she's going to piss off either Liz/Julia, Austin, or Steve/John, instead of coasting to F5 with no one mad at her. So it's risky either way, I guess.

I'm not pissed, just annoyed and disappointed because people I don't like "won" this episode. That said, it's arguably better for the V/JMac/S alliance that the week went the way it did, assuming Vanessa really is with them. Meg and James were unpredictable, and that can be really dangerous; either of them swings to Austwins when our faves were counting on them, as they were really likely to do whether or not S/JM saved Meg, and the V/JM/S trio is sunk. Two points: first, Derrick talked himself out of ever even being on the block, which I argue is stronger gameplay. Second, Vanessa didn't actually talk herself off the block- James and Meg decided that Shelli was more dangerous for their game all by themselves and so decided to keep Vanessa without Vanessa having to do anything. I'll give her credit for positioning herself really well in this game, because she has, but I'm not at all ready to put her gameplay in the same ballpark as Derrick's. And I didn't even like Derrick.ETA: I also really need this HoH to end, because I need to go to bed and I'm already maybe a little bit past slightly drunk. If it's endurance, let us watch. If it's not endurance, have it end quickly (like last week's endurance, amirite??). Ridiculous programming decision to have the HoH during BBAD; I don't watch it, but it must be so annoying for those that do to just get replays.

Well, I just watched this whole season, and I liked it! I have kind of mixed feelings about all the twists; as Bruno said, as a fan, they're fun to watch, but as a player, they're a little terrible. That double-safe super power for Brittnee and the first eviction were kind of crazy- the public got a lot of power! Did any of you keep up with other boards where people talked about it as it was happening? I'd love to know what the public feeling was about some of the big twists. Overall, I thought the cast was entertaining. Good season.

In case anyone is wondering, Julia knew she was going up and they had all agreed to it.

Austin owns one pair of shorts and one shirt, apparently- I doubt he even knows where a laundry hamper would be. Vanessa going off on James was so ridiculous. It's fine for her to insult people, call them liars, tell them their actions make no sense, but James suggests she's playing too hard, and she loses her mind. And then starts insulting him. Classic Vanessa. I'd love for John and Steve to flip but I just don't think they'll do it. We saw tonight that James and Mefg seem to (inexplicably) trust Austin and I'm sure J/S would worry that those four would team up. But really, even if Vanessa is actually with J/S, they are at best even numbers with AusTwins, and outnumbered if James sides with Aistwins, so it might be worth a shot.

From the episode thread: Brace yourselves, y'all, because the reality is stomach-turning. Liz may not be in love with Austin, but she is not repulsed by him. Starting last week, the two of them have been getting a little frisky in the HoH room. It started as Austin manually stimulating Liz, and has progressed, possibly to full-on P in V, but possibly just the tip. I'm not sure because I have no interest in seeing any of it, but folks on reddit have been watching it closely and reporting it way too much detail. So, she's not totally turned off, and I hate that I know that. In addition to what others have said, Austin really did decide to break his deal with JMac/ Steve and keep his deal with James/ Meg because he likes the latter more and thinks they are more fun. It's so silly. candall, the feeds can be hit or miss, but this group spends a LOT of time talking game. Just yesterday, Vanessa talked game nonstop for over six hours, circling through the house. Possibly more- I gave up eventually. Unfortunately, a lot happens in the middle of the night, but Jokers and reddit usually have time stamps of key talks and you can rewind the feeds to that point. Thankfully, because good feeds days can be really addicting.

If you want some additional info on this, head over to the episodes v. feeds thread- I'm about to go comment.

Pretty soon, Julia will have to stick with Austin even after Liz is evicted because she hasn't really built relationships with anyone other than Vanessa and there aren't that many options left. Steve, maybe? So I guess she could try to work with Steve and JMac but one if not both of them will probably be involved in booting Liz. I don't know, I haven't been able to predict anything these fools are going to do, so I should just stop trying; they'll probably evict Austin first anyway, if Meg gets involved in the strategizing.

This is the most fickle set of houseguests I've ever seen. They all plot with such conviction, and then two hours later do a 180. And then 90. And then a 270, just for good measure. And somehow they always settle on doing what I don't want them to do. It's insane. I cannot stand Austin and I'm not crazy about the twins, and I fear that the F2 is going to be some combination of them. We're getting to point that three votes is going to be very difficult to overcome and they'll coast right on through. If Becky goes this week and Vanessa (or anyone other than Austwins) next week, it'll be down to seven people with only four voting. Even if one goes that week, you're left with an unbreakable power couple super late in the game. If the trio wins more comps, they'll be no chance to evict them. I know you all know this, but I can't stop obsessing about how colossally dumb it is. Going back a few days, I think Vanessa is above-average in intelligence, but I think Vanessa thinks she is significantly smarter than she actually is. Her inability to recognize that anyone other than her might actually be thinking or planning or figuring things out is infuriating. And I think it plays in to her emotional outbursts- she is shocked anytime someone doesn't appear to be totally fooled by her "brilliance" and just loses it. I think her Jmac outburst is a great example of that, telling him that there's no way he figured anything out on his own. Or going off about how "illogical" Becky was being. It's kind of bratty.

John and Becky are close, but try to hide it. John did confide to Steve about it though, and as Nashville explained so well above, Steve wouldn't want to destroy his relationship with John by re-nomming Becky. But Steve also couldn't put Vanessa or Austin or the twins up, and I think Steve isn't sure how he feels about James. When John won veto, it was probably safest for Steve to have him not use it.

Exactly, pennbenn! Lots of us don't wash our hair every day, especially if we have textured hair- but we don't let it get stinky dirty! Other feed watchers , please correct me if I'm wrong, but these were not the Steve noms I was expecting, nor the veto choice from John that I was expecting. Given Jackie's "something was misunderstood" speech, I think something happened this afternoon while feeds were blocked that influenced some of this. It was all so unanticipated.

SteveAC10, I'm going to answer in the Episodes v. Feeds threads.

Hey, feeders, just a reminder that anything that happened after the veto ceremony shouldn't be posted here, such as how Vanessa handled the nomination. We can save all that for after the double eviction episode tomorrow! A couple of comments about tonight's episode: I am so glad that they talked about Austin smelling. Liz and Julia have mentioned it a few times, and he absolutely does not shower as often as he said. He definitely doesn't wash his hair very often. I was so surprised by Liz's DR session. I suspected she liked Austin but then she kept telling everyone, on the episodes and on the feeds, that she's just using him and I believed her. And then tonight?? Must be Stockholm syndrome.

To add on to what DonnyK said, Becky was pretty pissed about the Jason eviction. She hid it well but she did not appreciate Vanessa going back on the deal to evict Austin after Becky was on the block, and she knew Shelli and Clay were a big part of that decision. She played the middle for a while (her "rat" days), and it was her rat-dom that put her in a position to realize Vanessa was working with everyone in the house. I don't think Becky ever really turned on Clelli, and I think she'd be willing to work with Shelli going forward. It's really Vanessa that Becky turned on. I think that's why we saw (on Sunday's episode) Becky telling Shelli the real plan- Becky is ready to drop Vanessa but not Shelli.

No one knows. The suspicion is that something happened before the feeds came on, but it's also possible that they just have a personality conflict and it's been exacerbated by little things as time has gone on. Steve did overhear Jason say "The cameras give us more privacy than [steve] does" and Becky agree, but that can't be the whole reason. Steve also may be playing it up for the DR, and it's possible he's doing this act about all sorts of situations and people and they're only showing us what's relevant and plays into the narrative. They DR for several hours each week and we see at most five minutes of it. As for the disinfectant: they have cleaning supplies, and I'm guessing they use the disinfectant pretty regularly in a bathroom that is shared by so many people, and may even use it as a quick air freshener, so it's not that weird that it might be sitting out. As for aerosol hairspray? I don't use hairspray often, but every time I get my hair done for weddings or whatnot, the stylist always uses the aerosol kind, probably because it works. Them using it to be tv-ready doesn't surprise me at all. What does surprise me is that Vanessa felt she needed it right that moment, and needed it so urgently that she didn't realize what she was doing.

It's kind of a shame that HNs have become a volunteer thing - it used to be a great way to force non-allies to bond on some level, whether over something small like not getting to drink booze one night or something big like having to sleep together every night. And occasionally you'd have someone be an HN for a long time and their game would suffer because they were so sleep deprived and irritable. Last year, Frankie refusing to volunteer was the only HN-related drama we got. This year, none.

Not only is this group of HGs delightfully entertaining in their nuttiness, but the episode editing has been great. The quick cuts to Jackie, Meg, and Becky when Shelli and Vanessa were talking about them had me in stitches.

Also mixed up in all the he said- she said is that John said he was targeting Vanessa because he thought Vanessa was targeting him. I've lost track of who said what to whom and whether any of it was true, but Vanessa challenged John about it, saying "I know you didn't think of that on your own" and other such flattering things. She also 'cried,' because that's what she does.

It just now occurs to me that I have never posted a spoiler, and I have no idea how to do it! Help?

You're right, Donny, thanks for the correction. Her quiet week or two had completely slipped my mind with all the insanity of the last couple of weeks. Although I maintain that her crying that first week was fake and a ploy to make people think she was weak and not a game player. I don't even care if it's true, it's true *for me*!

Possibly both, but mostly the latter. Wow. Finally able to flashback and watch all of this- sheesh! It's amazing to me that Vanessa basically called JMac dumb about six times, right to his face. "No way you figured any of this out yourself!" And then later "Are you playing this game or not?" Even though, sure, he wasn't their number one target, but he's not exactly in their alliance either, so her incredulous-ness is a little over the top. And rude. Clay couldn't care less about Vanessa's fit either, which might be the most I've ever liked it. I have issues, because I am really hoping that they're all still in some weird fight for the live show. I know it's unlikely, but Clay is over it, and James has been not giving any fucks all week, and Vanessa is spiraling; it'd be amazing for them all to lose it and for Julie Chen to try to shut it all down.

Vanessa goes non-stop, talking at a breakneck speed for hours on end. She doesn't sleep much and she's always thinking out loud at someone. I don't know for sure that she was exhausting to people in the house from day one because I haven't heard anyone talk about it, and probably being a part of those conversations is different than being a spectator to them. But boy, spectating is stressful. She latches on to every little thing said and just drills down on it, and then when she gets an idea in her head, it's nonstop talking until she convinces others of it. An example: When Shelli, Clay, and Vanessa were talking about getting Jason out, Vanessa needed a "reason" to go back on her word to the Dark Moon group. She stayed up most of the night coming up with that reason, eventually deciding that Jason lied to her about Day having had the phone booth advantage from two weeks before. Don't try to understand why- it never made sense. She talked about it for literal hours and called everyone up to the HoH one by one to discuss it with them (not Jason, James, Jackie and Meg, of course). She just talked and talked at them until they finally were like "oh, okay, sure" - I don't know if they actually agreed or just couldn't keep on with the conversation anymore. Those are the conversations she referred to when she later told Jason and his crew that "everyone in the house said they wanted Jason out." No one can really deny it, because they did agree to it, but they didn't really *want* him out. That's how she's done everything all season. The episodes show only a couple of minutes of her making these decisions but leave out the hours of haranguing and manipulation that go on before and after. I'm glad people like this thread! Should be fun.

As mentioned, he and Meg got pretty drunk at the veto comp because they were the only ones drinking. Steve doesn't drink, and Austin, Liz, and Julia are all have-nots. He saw Shelli and Clay and even Meg all upset and I think he let his emotions get away from him. I think it also had to do with him worrying he had fucked up his game big-time: he told Jackie that Clay and Shelli had been wanting to get her out and that he was annoyed at them always nominating him and asking him not to use the veto. For some reason, he then told Clay and Shelli about it. He had to be worried that his name was going to get thrown around as a renom once Clelli started seriously scrambling. But who knows, he's Johnny Mac- he's an enigma. It is weird how little Steve is shown on the episodes, but he's not really involved in many strategy talks that have had any much impact on the game. He occasionally talks surface-level game with JMac, but otherwise he mostly only talks game to Vanessa. Maybe we'll see more of him as the big alliance falls apart (IF they fall apart, I guess).