EmeraldArcher

Nope. Sin is Prometheus! She found out that the deaths of everyone she's cared about trace back to Oliver (her dad, Sara, Roy). [LOL]

Do tell, please! ETA: Unless you're bugged by people watching by proxy. I'm sorry. I want to give it up so bad, but I need a distraction, and I trust everyone here to call out the bad stuff.

Fuck you, Barry Allen! I have never felt this hopeless in my entire life. Yeah, for me, Arrow (on screen and BTS) reflects everything I feel about the real world right now.

@BkWurm1, I thought I was in the Small Talk thread for a second! :-) So, we've heard that Tina, Wild Dong, Mr. T-riffic, and Oliver are there. So, was Artemis just a placeholder as the token female mask until NuCanary was introduced? For those who are comparing Arrow S5 to House and its new team, I keep wondering who on the new team was that annoying noob, Dr. Chi Park. Tina is obviously 13, and Felicity is clearly Cameron.

Not to turn this into a support group for sad people, but in the spirit of solidarity, I suddenly have overwhelming sobs wracking my body. I think it's some weird reaction to the giant hole left by the lack of a new Flash episode tonight. It must be.

I think people have been talking about EBR not being on set, not the actress who plays Tina. But, it's exciting to get a first-hand account from one of our own, @HighHopes!

Wow, so I started following threads from people tweeting BS and saw this quote from DR. Seriously, it all just gives me a massive headache at this point. It really does come down to who has a penis, right? Sara Diggle was also "cool, a little ham," except that praise goes to the boy. Instead, Sara gets "cute, but." DR has always been likable, and I thought he was smarter than this asinine doubling-down on such fucking overt misogyny. Wrong again.

Can you clarify for those of us not on Twitter?

So, I had a pretty fun feminist moment today: I'm faculty in a STEMM college and was chatting with a male colleague today. The conversation turned to a recent college-wide faculty meeting during which I had challenged our dean and received a condescending and slightly threatening response from him. When I asked my colleague what he thought about the dean's response, my colleague said: "I was just egging him on to keep trying to mansplain to [EmeraldArcher], thinking 'Dude, you're toast.'" EmeraldArcher: 1; Entrenched Male Dominance in STEMM: 0

I just noticed that she's an INTJ. I'm an ENTJ, so the only difference is she introverted, and I am extroverted. INTJs are considered "masterminds," which is perfect for Felicity!

From Spoilers thread: Man, this makes me rage and roll my eyes so hard. First of all, he's right that Susan seems up to no good because all we've seen from her so far is that she is underhanded, unprofessional, and manipulative. Oh, and flirty. So, in a season in which Oliver has again killed someone while uttering "No one can know my secret," we're supposed to believe that he reacts to the sexy reporter's threat to expose his secret with a little flirty flirt and a desire to prove himself to her, to prove that he's the good guy? Why? He already knows she's underhanded--he should immediately suspect that she's exactly like Isabel. And, Susan "won't want to do what she did to Thea"?? Why, because he's Mayor Handsome? Why do these hack writers treat every unpleasant female as deserving to be won over? How about someone is unethical and untrustworthy regardless if she's attractive? Not to drag Olicity into it (eh, who am I kidding?), but Felicity was never the bitch that needed tamed or convinced of the hero's worth. Even with the power imbalance between them, given Oliver's last name, Felicity was real--she didn't snipe or simper. When she pushed back, she was trying to help him grow, not just push his buttons.

Right? I didn't make it past S1 of Daredevil, but I'm LOVING Luke Cage. The female characters are complex as hell and are allowed to fierce, vulnerable, shady, conflicted, and complicated. I think the writing is phenomenal, and LC is the type of gritty Arrow obnoxiously claims to be.

I clicked on the link to the article in that tweet, and the header picture is of Oliver and Felicity's fake wedding--WTH? <insert eye roll>

Unfortunately, you forgot about the other new character in the present: Susan Williams. A woman who has been shown to be manipulative and dishonest and who has violated the ethical code of her profession--but, she's SEXY, so Oliver has to earn HER approval.

Thanks for the clarification. My hackles were halfway raised already that they were stupid enough to flippantly allude to it in a tweet. What a state of affairs when one can conclude the absolute worst about them, right? Ugh.

Um, which hashtag? Almost afraid to ask, even though I did catch the gross(x4) "owe him."

I have an idea I want to run by all of you: As I read all of your thoughts and legitimate complaints again Arrow, I wonder if there's a story here for Laura Hurley or some other brave female writer who might do a story about female viewers' reactions to Arrow and how many of us are ready to walk away. A writer could mine from our posts, look at other women's tweets, the comment sections of the various forums, and relevant social media. We talk about how difficult it is to be a woman in fandom, and some writers are covering it from their own observations, but have any done case studies based on actual fan comments in these public spaces? We've often expressed our belief that Laura Hurley lurks on this board anyway--should we as a group propose this story to her? I have no intention to somehow influence the show; rather, I think it's important to hear from women how we perceive female characters and our reactions to BTS indicators that we're not welcome or legitimate fans. It surely isn't isolated to Arrow. What do you think?

I'm right there with you on being sad. It' the weirdest thing for me, because as others have said, it isn't that Arrow has ever been a show with overt social or artistic merits. It's been fun, and sometimes thrilling, and immersion in fandom has heightened my enjoyment. It's just been my thing for so long. But now, I'm confronted by all of the ways they're telling us that women don't matter: from erasing Sara Diggle to denying Felicity a POV in-show to basically telling us to fuck off on social media and in interviews. I'm sad because I feel like I'm compromising my values if I continue watching, even as I know there's not much left I want to see. For as much as MG and OB were throwing around the word "disrespect" last night, the only one I feel I've disrespected is myself by continuing in this toxic relationship with a show that's made it clear I'm not valued as a fan.

But, the people on Twitter last night weren't in ship mode--none of them were clamoring for Olicity to reunite, none of them were complaining about them moving on for now--they were complaining about the huge gaps in the story that seem pretty legitimate: Oliver and Felicity having all the conversations about their break-up off screen (Diggle and Oliver had time to discuss their bromance break-up last year, so why wouldn't Oliver and Felicity?) Felicity getting with Mayo off screen (no time to show viewers anything about their relationship but a few lies, evasions, and lunchtime sex?) Felicity and Oliver not behaving as two people who were almost married only several months ago Felicity not having a story, a job, a POV I think the issue is that people are reacting to really shitty storytelling that's also affecting their ship, but its shittiness is what's actually being called out. MG and OB just kept ignoring what people were tweeting about the poor writing because you can discredit anyone simply by calling them a "shipper," right?

Post 505, you know you're watching too much Arrow when it's 8PM on Wednesday and you don't change the channel from The CW to something better. (Fuming about how my favorite show is now FUBAR)

Arrow has been my only foray into fandom, by which I mean obsessing over every new spoiler, hanging out with all of the great people here, and devouring fan fic, so can somebody tell me whether this type of show-related drama is normal? Is MG's sneering tweet about shippers something that happens?! I just can't understand why he would disrespect a specific segment of fans, especially a segment for which exists quantitative evidence of their investment in the show: number of tweets to trend Arrow, usually focused on favorite characters and ships; number of votes in online shipping contests that have led to MTV awards and others; number of fan works featuring Olicity that provide promotion of the show, especially Lord Mesa's high-profile artwork. I know that shippers are called just a small but loud faction of the fandom, but their loudness has only benefited the show, right? Honestly, the erasure of Baby Sara infuriates me, so MG's stupid tweet merely intrigues me. Is this something the CW/ DCTV executives are going to look away from, or do you think they'll force him to walk it back somehow? Could he have been lashing out like a petulant child because by the time this one was in the can, the executives were already demanding a plan to reunite Olicity, despite MG's grand plans for taking Arrow in a different direction? Honestly, I'm flummoxed.

I don't like her at all. I like what Thea said about her being poison. I was afraid after Anatoly's advice about a beautiful woman that he was foreshadowing Oliver banging the reporter in present day, so I was happy to see the parallel could have actually been the blonde in the red dress setting Oliver up and Susan Williams setting her trap. So, the only part I was relieved by was that Oliver didn't sleep with her. Ugh.

It was really that bad. Felicity and Mayo post-coital in the loft bedroom; scene opened with her putting her shirt on. Then, the Human Target guy was the one who told Oliver that Felicity was seeing someone new. Oliver and Felicity (I refuse to use their ship name) then had a middle-of-the-night talk on the balcony (Oliver apparently scaled the outside of the building like King Kong) during which they talked about why she didn't tell him, he wants her to be happy, blah blah blah. Then, a scene near the end during which they cheerfully talk about how they're moving forward, deserve to be happy, always care for each other, blah blah blah, and then like the longest heart eyes ever to heart eye. I can't believe how stupid these showrunners are, and to read MG's shipper-baiting tweet? He can fuck off.

I wish I hadn't wasted my time. Clarity, they said. Clarity was seeing Felicity and Mayo post-coital in the same bed--same ugly sheets--she shared with Oliver. Clarity was hearing Olicity admit they were moving on and then linger over the heart eyes. It just feels like crumbs and not characterization. Clarity is admitting this show just doesn't do it for me right now. Ugh.

Oh, stop it with the facts already! :-) I just got carried away by wishful thinking and the facts got a little blurry.