Churchhoney

Oh, goodness, I put that badly! Didn't mean to dis Cleveland -- I was just jokingly comparing cities of Cleveland's size to New York, which would probably be way too much for Duggar offspring and compared to which Cleveland really doesn't have anything going on. (neither does Washington, DC, by the way, although it has been picking up steam over the past few decades, as Cleveland seems to be doing now as well) As I said -- and obviously should have said it better! -- Cleveland's low-key-nature-compared-to-New-York would still provide lots of new thrills for Duggar kids. So ... if they really wanted to get away, I think a smaller city, and probably one in the middle of the country somewhere would be best. And since the whole point would be for them to experience a place that's much more diverse than they're used to and that would expose them to new things and different people, Cleveland would be ideal. (Of course, I'm assuming that people who'd like to see somebody Break Duggar sees the kids that try it as having some ability to succeed at it -- not ones who'd be completely terrified by the sight of Muslims or Catholic homeschooling mothers in slacks.) In fact, I picked Cleveland because I'm at least half a northern Ohioan too. Born in the Cleveland area, lived in the Cleveland area periodically throughout my life and live in the Cleveland area now. As a kid, occasionally going for a drive through the city was my dream come true. I never actually got to go to the art museums or the ethnic restaurants, but I loved even the glimpse of the city from the car window, and I have always had a huge soft spot for Cleveland. As far as Cleveland not having any of the fundie southern-type conservatism of Arkansas, I have to disagree with you there, though. Once you've gone 20-plus miles from the city center -- and as you proceed outward -- the mix of people you mention completely turns on its head. The outer suburbs and beyond have lots of fundies and also plenty of homophobia, xenophobia, racism, anti-feminism, religious fervor that casts a jaundiced eye even on the somewhat plentiful Catholic and Jewish neighbors-- all the stuff Duggars are used to. (I know this because that's where I've lived -- and live.) But I'd actually call that another reason why Cleveland or another similar city would be the perfect venue for somebody to Break Duggar -- because when the city got too much for them, it would be short drive to a couple of Walmarts that, except for the lack of southern accents, would feel a lot like home. New York State has its share of those places, too, but they're a much tougher drive from Manhattan. So -- Sorry I came off as a Cleveland disser. I'm not -- Up with Cleveland!

Just one question: Are you sure JimBob and Michelle actually have these? Couldn't resist.

I doubt they were in DC, but the phone booths in some congressional office buildings looked just like that. I'm sure those are phone booths, not confessionals. They yanked the phones out of most of the Capitol Hill ones years and years ago. But at least some of the booths stayed after the phones were removed -- they provided a private place where you might use your cellphone or whatever, and they were sleek -- if old-fashioned looking -- wood, to go with the marble halls.. I think they're in in old phone booths in some public building in Little Rock. Maybe Josiah's contemplating a run for the legislature. lol

Exactly. And in this case, we're not just talking about sweeping it away to avoid punishment, we're also talking about sweeping it away to avoid having a young kid with a clearly serious problem get some equally serious therapy and rehabilitation. That, too, is something that isn't relevant to the afterlife. But it's very relevant to his life -- and the life of others -- right here and now on this Earth.

Here's the way it looks to me: They were on a huge hill. The cat was sitting on one tiny part of it. The cat was simply somewhere on the huge hill -- which was absolutely big enough to accommodate several human sledders and one sitting cat. It was clearly not "in the way" of any sledder that didn't deliberately choose to aim at the cat. They, however, aimed at the cat. And the hysterical, presumably Duggar cackling behind them was clearly triggered by the fun of scaring the cat and making it jump and run. That was the intention. That's what they found funny. And, to me, those are the actions of childish, mean, humorless people with no empathy. I just don't like people who do things like that. And I don't like them if they're Christian, Muslim, atheist, whatever. Obviously, MMV. Years ago, I barely escaped being raped by an influential, expensively coifed millionaire wearing an Armani suit. Just sayin.

Or hand off primary care of a six-month-old baby to another child? There are so many ways in which she should not be anyone's role model.

This is why I have a huge issue with the, "Oh, Jesus is providing" when the church folk and neighbors drop off stuff for the huge family or the roller-rink guy gives Boob free tickets (before he stopped doing that. heh). Because if that's Jesus, then he's only providing the less important stuff since those all-important intangibles can't be dropped off on your porch by other people. God doesn't, can't provide those intangible things unless he could somehow give you, as parents, endless mental and emotional energy plus 96 hours in every day to figure out and take care of those things yourselves. Makes no sense to me that people's charity for somebody's way-too-many kids is evidence that "God provides" when those same kids are still left completely wanting when it comes to things like individual attention, educaton, understaning of their uniqueness, guidance and so on. If needs were actually being directly met by Jesus, he'd find some way to meet all of those needs too, seems to me, but there's pretty clear evidence that that's not true, at least in the case of some of the families who most loudly declare it to be true, such as the Rodriguezes and the Duggars.

Love how this place is sort of an on-demand encyclopedia. Thanks!

Not to mention that printing presses have, you know, kind of gone the way of Gutenberg. And who would actually have the money to, I assume, pay them for this ministry -- especially anybody who isn't using some printing setup already? And who would be writing the tracts that they print? Cause I have a bad feeling that they intend much of it to be written by them? And ... yeeps.

Thanks for explaining this. I knew that voting was compulsory in Oz but didn't know the history.

I'm quoting this because I think it deserves to be said and read over and over. Whereas in the U.S., people not only have to be urged and begged and cajoled and pushed to vote, some people spend a huge amount of energy trying to keep the people who might vote against them away from the polls, such as by squelching attempts to expand voting hours and so on so working people have an easier time fitting voting into their day. How many vote is really the issue here, and it creates our laws and creates our Congress and our state governments.

Actually, that's just what non-Brits, and especially Americans apparently, think about "high tea." The tea with the dainty desserts and a cuppa is afternoon tea and was sometimes called "low tea" in the past, for some reason. High tea has always been the English version of supper -- a sort of undistinguished, nourishing evening meal, meat and potatotes and veg and so on. So in truth rice and beans would be perfectly appropriate for "high tea." But not the fancy hats. Of course, given the fancy hats, the Duggars are clearly using the American definition of high tea. So the beans and rice become a WTF moment. Edited because it's high tea, not thigh tea.

Not that we want to see them, of course. It does seem just so cynical to keep putting all these pictures out of the little kids, when before they kind of ignored them. Clearly a ploy to get back into everybody's good graces, and you should certainly never use your kids for that. Of course, I guess the Duggars have never hesitated to use their kids before, so it's stupid to expect them to begin now, when they're desparate to get back on that tv that they clearly told us they don't actually need.

I think a lot of times we see what we're hoping to see. I'm sure to a lot of people the idea of a huge home where everybody's comfortable and happy and there are lots of people to socialize with is a cherished dream, and the show presents just enough of that that some viewers can see only that and not even notice the rest.

And then the next week, Nick brought home Bumble Bee tuna.

I wonder whether they thought beyond a panicked, "Oh no! We have to save our show(s)! We need to get on tv and show everybody that what happened in teh past was no big deal and they should be sorry for us in the present! They love us! It'll be fine!" When I try to imagine how it went down, panicked stupidity is pretty much all I see.

I enjoyed your rant!

Wear as many things at the same time as possible. Don't wear any clothing made out of printed materials, though, especially the leggings, or the blouses. Printed materials are "eye traps," so you'd be defrauding poor helpless men no matter how many other layers you had on. (I swear that this "prints are eye traps" thing is in the ATI materials somewhere.

They mentioned somewhere that they were praying for them. There's a post about it somewhere on here. I don't think they said anything more than that.

Did you say "skort?" Sorry. You'll need to wear a long skirt over that. Also -- apparently you weren't paying attention in the JTTH nondefrauding couture seminar. See Mr. Gothard in his office.

It's awful. Makes me think about the extreme illogic of people in the late 20th into the 21st century embracing a "system" of "life principles" that calls for not enrolling in higher education, not working for or apprenticing yourself to people outside of this very small religious group and educating subsequent generations solely by in-group members who as the years go on will have less and less out-group education. Not to mention throwing overboard thousands of years of culture, science and even theology to educate your children mainly using "wisdom books" consisting of top-of-mind silly connections that a few system leaders spied among biblical texts and random additional subjects, such as law and agriculture. In this highly technological and complex age, how many brain cells do you have to be missing to think that these are workable ideas? And how many more do you have to be missing to think you can conduct your life in this way while also enjoying numerous fruits of our technological civilization, from advanced premature-infant care and easy international travel to frozen convenience food, the ego boost of a million posted selfies, and paychecks derived from mass communication. The lack of thought in the whole thing is mind-blowing. And that includes thought about the ultimate consequences for oneself and one's offspring and descendants as well as thought about the lack of respect one is exhibiting toward others.

It's a buffet, though, so hey-hey-hey, no tip! (and bring your tupperware!)

Yes to both parts of this. Can't helping thinking about the Maya Angelou line with regard to the possibility of Jessa having two personas, though: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them.'

Exactly. And beside the fact that they really don't have any content -- and less now that sexual stuff whether about the virtues of modesty or the virtues of taunting mini-golf-course humping has such an ick factor -- I don't think the public in general is ever too happy when a "reality" show is outed as having little basis of reality. And that's certainly the case here. And, yeah, we all know that the shows manipulate reality. But in this case, It's hard not to look back at those early episodes and the total Walton image they were giving these people and think about what was going on with the family at that exact minute -- and that had been going on for a few years. The $64,000 Question turned people off too, when they found out that some contestants were being given the answers. There's embroidering reality -- and then there's departing from it altogether, and I think a lot of people are likely to feel that 19 Kids is closer to the total-departure mode. .... If you foster that kind of mistrust in viewers -- and then bore the crap out of them too -- your chances probably aren't that good. Plus, if they did come back, a large number of viewers (not gonna say most because I'm not sure that would be right) will want them to address the issue that they faced and that they're now facing. And their interviews made quite clear that they aren't going to do that. So how does TLC present this as a "reality show" going forward? That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they try a couple "focus on the young families and courters" specials, once some more time has passed.

Because radaronline is run by ethically bankrupt idiots who measure everything in life by how many "clicks" they can garner?