Churchhoney

This is what happens when you trust a bunch of children in flip-flops to build your house, even when they own their own power tools. It's a crying shame that most children have such lousy construction skills that they aren't even up to putting together a pre-fab house. Lord knows Jim Bob did what he could, letting them watch other contractors for a couple of whole weekends before he turned them loose on his project. But they failed him.

Maybe he was fantasizing that JB and M weren't his actual parents and that he was foundling who was the secret child of a rich guy, Smithson. Daydreaming about inheriting the Smithsonian Institution and eventually selling it for a fine bundle of cash so they can put up a WalMart in DC.

Wow, I sure hope not. But you're probably exactly right. That's too bad. I'd love for her (or any of them) to be able to stay -- or get -- away.

Brought this over from the Dillards' thread, where Margaritas were being drunk: Meanwhile, back in Arkansas, the breakup of Josiah's and Marjorie's courtship turns out to have been a sham. Josiah packs a bag, jumps out a second story window at the TTH and onto the back of a Vespa piloted by Marjorie. They speed the 10 miles to her house where her parents pop them into the car and hustle them to the airport. They fly to a lovely college town in the Midwest where the Jacksons have helped them both to enroll as freshmen in a school affiliated with a moderate Protestant denomination. That evening, the formerly courting couple enjoy their first real date -- dinner and the late showing of a tasteful, R-rated art film. Later that night, Tim Tebow's mother drives a van quietly up the road near the Duggar place. Across the dark lawn creep seven figures, five small ones and two taller ones, each carrying a small suitcase. While Mrs. Tebow's son, Tim, isn't interested in dating Jana or Jinger, and even though the Tebows have a conservative Christian faith that seems like the Duggars', when Mrs. Tebow met the family last year she was horrified at the prisonlike conditions the Duggar children have lived in and vowed to do something to help at least some of the kids. Reaching out to her wide acquaintance, she finally located a wealthy New York City couple with two children who've been looking to hire two excellent, principled young women to job-share the nanny position for their brood. After Mrs. Tebow's vivid description of the horror that is the TTH -- and Jana's and Jinger's excellent qualifications for the job-- the extremely wealthy couple offered to open their home not only to Jana and Jinger but to their "children" -- Hannie, Jackson, Jenny, Jordyn and Josie Duggar -- as well. Someone else will have to figure out how to get JD, Joe and the Howlers out of there.

Meanwhile, back in Arkansas, the breakup of Josiah's and Marjorie's courtship turns out to have been a sham. ... (continued over in the Lonely Js, after I realized where I was posting this.

Speaking of kittens, flowers and puffy heart stickers, I keep thinking of those recent photo ops of Josh and Anna. The two of them celebrating their "seven year engagement anniversary" or whatever. And then the one in the restaurant with him holding little Meredith. It's horrible enough to think of her smiling through that after the whole molestation, lose-job-in-disgrace fiasco. But it takes on a whole different dimension if she had any idea that all this stuff might come down as well. And it makes me wonder whether those were photo ops mostly to repair the public image or whether he was trying to soften Anna up in case more stuff came out. .... In any case, creepy and awful to be the betrayed party in those pictures. Her smiles looked forced to me, but I don't think I could have mustered a look other than nausea in her position.

There was a big debate on this. As I recall, the upshot was that quite a few people who seem to know a lot about the Duggar/Keller/Gothard style think that she did know the details because of the way that group functions. It's known that JB and M told leaders of their church -- which some take to include major Gothard people like Pa Keller -- and that there was public confession and forgiving-by-the-victims involved. The principle, according to these folks, is that they're all enjoined to tell all, including details, and then go on to public forgiveness stuff from there, and that since Anna's a member of the Keller family, she would have been fully informed as well. A bunch of other people had trouble believing that she knew. I don't recall anybody with much particular knowledge of Gothard's group and very similar groups being in that category, but it's possible some were. Anyway, some didn't feel that even the parental Kellers knew all the details or even any of them; they live in Florida, after all, and many doubted whether they would have encouraged their daughter to marry the guy. Others had the feeling that the parents knew, because of who they are in the Gothard world, but that they probably whitewashed the facts a bit when it came to Anna -- like saying Josh had been involved in "inappropriate touching" of somebody... not necessarily numerous somebodies, not necessarily his sisters. That was my initial opinion -- I had the feeling that the Kellers and the Duggars would have seen Anna as a naive childwoman who didn't need to hear absolutely everything, especially since it suited all of their agendas to get her married to Josh and since she lived 1000 miles away, so she probably wasn't at the meetings where all the details came out. I felt as if they would lie to her by omission -- give the outline but not the details. Having heard what people apparently more knowledgeable of these groups thought, though, I came round to thinking that my gut impression was based on too little knowledge and might well be wrong and that maybe they did tell her everything, since stories about such detailed confession stuff -- in front of large groups of people, including children -- appear to be pretty common. So, in short, nobody knows. And it's possible that she did know everything but is so steeped in the Gothard way that she buys such wholesale confession as being the true way to forgiveness or something. Crazy and unfortunate no matter which of the scenarios is true, if you ask me.

I think there's been some talk about how maybe their speaking engagements have dwindled. Of course, that could only be a temporary backing off and they might start up again, I suppose. Hard to see what they'd be invited to talk about these days, exactly. Love the Rapunzel idea. It wouldn't work for Gothard girls, of course, because it seems to be a sin to trim your hair. ; - )

If you were JB or M, you would be very very proud of that sentence.

I think they're probably all three: Ooohh, freebies if I post this! Ooohh, Chick-Fil-A hates teh gays as much as I do! Oooohh, look at cool trendsetting me posting cool food pics on cool social media! Every one of those sentiments fits Josh and Jessa to a tee, I think.

Right on the money in your post, I think. And about the above -- Well, anybody who says that there's a circumstance in which somebody is obliged to have sex with them -- that's pretty clearly somebody with massive power and control issues, right there, seems to me. Josh has huge issues living with other humans on the earth, really. Can't stand the fact that anybody else has autonomy and doesn't do everything he says. .... And now he's destined to be a total flunkie for the rest of his days. How sad. Not. Not to absolve JB and M of their horrible part in this. I do feel sorry for Josh the kid. He surely didn't get anything that he needed from his parents. But he's a grownup now, and I think it's pretty clear that he's by nature and choice, as well as by nurture, a person who doesn't give a crap about anyone but himself.

I suppose that would be too much reality for them. Also, they mainly seem to mention stuff that they can eventually turn around and blame the problem on. As in -- It was porn that made me do it! Porn! It was the internet that led me astray! Hard to blame his problem on an STD.

King James tells them so: Proverbs 22:6, King James Version "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." They figure that's their insurance against surprises, I expect. And they think it's all about "training," not education, clearly. But in fact it's probably more about education, you're never safe from surprises, and they have never done even training consistently, especially with Josh. They're too dumb to figure any of that out, however, I would guess.

Great point. And kinda nice since that's the era JB and M have sort of been aiming for. Live by the Dark Ages, die by the Dark Ages.

I'm a hope-for-the-bester, and this sure is the time to get out. But I have the strong feeling that JB and M will never ever ever realize that and that, in fact, they never actually realize anything. They're an incredibly stubborn, two-person echo chamber of delusion. I think if the kids want freedom, they're going to have to grab it on their own, unfortunately. Hope that isn't the case. But I really have no hope for these crazy parents seeing any error in their own ways.

I looked up the school's history a while ago and found out that it was brand new when Jim Bob attended and, as usually is done with new private schools, it was beginning with earlier grades and only adding upper grades as the current students aged into them. It wasn't slated to have a graduating class until Jim Bob's year. So Deanna really couldn't have gone there.

Well, the Duggar-Gothard brand of fundie-ism seems to almost aspire to Scientology levels of this crap. (as well as the word redefinition that L. Ron Hubbard was so fond of). They can't achieve it, though. They want to know it all and seem to think they ought to know it all. But they don't have enough of a bureaucracy and system and people have way too many kids. Plus, no e-meter. : )

This is one of the reasons the Duggars don't like animals, I think. Animals are too perceptive, often too warm. Those aren't Duggar things. They're just cold, arrogant...and dumb.

I'm not sure they understand how anything works. What do they not routinely make a hash of? Amazing that they can be so haughty when none of them seems to have a clue of any kind.

I don't know. I wonder whether his stock may not have dropped too far now. These people were all much higher-value than Josh to begin with. They'd actually given people things when they had some power, while he's only been valuable for having certain connections. Even with "only" the molestation issue, I couldn't see him getting anything other than a functionary-type job working with fundies with leghumper tendencies. And there isn't really anywhere down to go from there, especially since current events may be losing him some of the loyal Duggar lovers. I suppose somebody who felt sorry for him might hire him to make coffee and tidy up. But it would really be just a charity job at this point. I think people will fear that his days of adding any political value are over.

Yeah, even I'd agree that his goose is cooked now, when it comes to outside employment in an office of any kind! Which brings me to my next question. What the heck kind of empire does Jim Bob need to supply jobs for all the male Duggars? Now Josh is back. And while it kind of seemed Josiah might find a new outside-the-family route from apprenticing with Marjorie's dad, he's probably back, too. But how many unskilled workers can JB accommodate? At this point, he doesn't seem to have much work even for the ones he's got, since they seem to spend a heck of a lot of time at amusement parks and on junkets-with-Jessa. And even with the biggest operation he could possibly assemble JB probably won't be able to afford any more sons-in-law, since he seems to attract only unemployed or soon-to-be-unemployed ones. That several million in net worth he supposedly has is going to dwindle pretty fast.

Yes. The sad thing about that is that he gets less employable by the minute. She'd better move fast while there's still a little cash left.

Gothard on how not to get attacked while driving. For young ladies. Scroll down and get ready to scream (that's not the ATI advice, it's mine): https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/08/17/bill-gothard-explains-road-safety-aka-how-not-to-get-raped/

Seems clear this is true. But I'm thinking he may be stupid and arrogant enough not to realize it.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/ashley-madison-josh-duggar Why Can't All Ashley Madison Hacking Victims Be Josh Duggar? Amanda Marcotte, at Talking Points Memo "Cheating is about violating a deeply personal agreement between two people....It’s not the business of the world at large. Unless you’re Josh Duggar, of course. Or anyone else who fights publicly to use government interference to mess with the private sexual choices of consenting adults. If you fight for the government to limit or ban gay people’s marriages or women’s reproductive choices, then your sex life is our business. If only there were a way to do a targeted search of Ashley Madison data for that, while leaving everyone else alone."