Churchhoney

Okay, I'm a little confused. All they needed to do was look at the brand on their expensive sports shoes (whether bought expensively new or not so expensively used), Nike, right? I mean, they're not supposed to be looking at a goddess or anything else but DOWN -- at their feet, many of which probably have the word Nike written down there on the shoes. Nike is on feet; thus, look at feet. Isn't that the point when Joy shouts? And, not to excuse them for being uneducated ignoramuses, but while, yeah, I'm sure they don't know that the brand was named after a goddess, I expect there are probably billions of other people worldwide who also know the Nike shoe brand without knowing the origin of that brand name, right? Well, anyway, this is neither here nor there, but I am sorta puzzled about why it's confusing.

Well, not to defend the Duggars' embrace of ignorance, but in this huge and complicated world, there's a heck of a lot of basic information out there, with every realm having its own set. I don't think it's possible for anyone to be familiar with all or even most of it.

I hoped he had, and I think most people thought or at least hoped he had. In fact, it wouldn't really surprise me if he thought he had changed and that a lot of the lying he's done has been to himself -- that he actually does think that he's a champion of the abused now. He's either a deliberately lying rotten jerk who engaged in a conspiracy against these women or he's a hopelessly blind self-deluded dumb-ass who has no clue about the extent of his own biases. At the very least, people who are victims of churchie types' abuse should now see that they shouldn't hire him as their lawyer, even if he doesn't get disbarred.

Rejoice ... if they only realized it!

IBLP also lost some "accreditation" from an evangelical group over unspecified "governance" issues back in March, it seems. Guess the mighty board of Gil, Doc Paine, et al, didn't look so good to somebody....http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/march/bill-gothard-iblp-loses-ecfa-accreditation-governance.html 'The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) terminated the membership of the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) last Friday, citing “failure to comply” with its governance standard. 'ECFA requires member organizations to have a board of at least five people (mostly independents) that pray, chart long-range strategy, and identify potential conflicts of interest, among examples of other duties. '“When a ministry encounters failure—or even worse, scandal—its difficulties can almost always be traced to a breakdown in governance,” states ECFA’s explanation of Standard 2. “For this reason, ECFA places much emphasis on strong, effective governance.” 'ECFA declined to specify to CT how IBLP failed to meet its governance standard. IBLP did not respond to CT’s request for comment by press time.' And, in related good news, they really are bleeding money, apparently: "The institute, which has drawn more than 2.5 million people to its seminars, is struggling financially. Over the past 4 years, IBLP ran a deficit of $15.8 million. Last year, it lost $4.6 million."

The ugly, lying story of David Gibbs III. Can't even imagine what's going to happen with those poor people in the anti-Gothard lawsuit. How will they trust anyone, even -- maybe especially -- themselves, after experiencing this kind of betrayal on top of the original betrayals? I always thought it was nuts to choose this lawyer, despite of the way he portrayed himself, but at least some of them obviously thought it was a good idea. And when somebody who's been treated like less than dirt makes a mistake it can easily make them want to withdraw from everything. I sure hope the case goes forward, but thinking of the additional damage this has to have caused the victims makes me sick. Damn the Gothardites altogether. https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/24/the-fixer/ 'Through his National Center for Life and Liberty (NCLL), Gibbs III has positioned himself as an advocate for the abused as well as an individual sensitive and empathetic to those injured by Christian fundamentalism. As Gibbs III told HA’s Ryan Stollar in January of this year, “I vehemently oppose child abuse and those that cover it up with a passion, and I believe that organizations that emotionally, psychologically, physically, or sexually abuse children should be prosecuted and shut down.” Now that he has become one of the primary business partners of the Great Homeschool Conventions, the largest for-profit homeschool convention company in the United States, Gibbs III’s platform and reach is spreading.[x] 'Yet some have questioned this positive image of Gibbs III. Despite his current advocacy for survivors, he spent decades doing the exact opposite: serving as a fixer for abusers and defending leaders who spread Christian fundamentalism. Through his work and leadership with his father David C. Gibbs Jr.’s organization, the Christian Law Association (CLA), Gibbs III built a career out of defending accused child abusers. And as recently as last year, Gibbs presented sermons at churches arguing that not only parents, but schools, churches, and even complete strangers have a “fundamental right” to child corporal punishment—which he referred to as “child-beating.”[xi] 'This discrepancy has raised concerns. Gibbs III’s current NCLL website makes no mention of his involvement with the CLA, including the fact that he was their general counsel. In his interview with HA blog partner Julie Anne Smith on May 26, 2014, he completely separated his father and the CLA’s work from his own work, making it seem that he was not involved with the former.[xii] However, when pressed on this matter, Gibbs III told HA, “I worked with my father and did legal work for CLA from 1993-2012.” '...On May 20, 2016, Judge Kenneth L. Popejoy disqualified Gibbs III from the Bill Gothard sex abuse case, Gretchen Wilkinson v. IBLP. Gothard and IBLP had filed motions the previous February claiming that Gibbs was “playing both sides of the street” in the case. One of the motions contained an affidavit from Roger Blair, who was present when Gibbs first approached Gothard to talk about the abuse allegations. Blair alleged that Gibbs III offered to help Gothard derail the allegations against him. Blair testified that, “Mr. Gibbs spoke as if he were connected to the individuals behind Recovering Grace and had inside knowledge that would be valuable to Bill. I recall Mr. Gibbs saying, ‘I know how to handle it.’ He stated that Bill ‘was wronged’ and that it was unfair that ‘people are trying to destroy your ministry as well as other ministries.’ Mr. Gibbs stated that he read allegations on the Recovering Grace website and he knew that they were false. He said that he knew how to adequately respond to ‘get rid of it.’”[lxxxvii]' The Schiavo case was another of his gigs, apparently, so you can see why they might have thought of him as a very high-powered lawyer whom they were lucky to have representing them: "Gibbs is best known for his work on the nationally reported Terri Schiavo case in Florida. "Gibbs represented Schiavo's parents in an attempt to keep her alive through a feeding tube after she was diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state. Schiavo's husband wanted to pull the plug." http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20150603/news/150609914

Plus, they have absolutely no variety. : )

Jism Bob looks like he can't stop grinding his teeth even for two seconds to snap a pic. Good. Long may he need to grind them.

I think that's kind of how he sold himself. If you look through the comments on this post about Gibbs https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/02/20/desperate-attempt-david-c-gibbs-iii-fires-back-against-bill-gothard-iblp/ it seems clear, though, that just exactly who and what he is, what his loyalties and ideas are and how competent or incompetent he is as a lawyer is all very much a mystery. I would guess that he was mainly hired here because even for people who've tried to wrest themselves away from this isolated world of Gothard and Gothardlike homeschooling fundiness, the walls must still be up and they don't often see or look very far beyond those walls for other possibilities, no matter what the issue. It wouldn't be surprising if this were the case. From my own experience, I know that, for some people at least, even after those who trapped you are gone, once you've spent a certain number of years trapped you'll go on trapping yourself in the same way for many years into the future, and maybe forever. So the fact that he was of the same world as these women could make him seem like the best choice for a lawyer, rather than potentially the worst. https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/02/20/desperate-attempt-david-c-gibbs-iii-fires-back-against-bill-gothard-iblp/

We are all awesome!

No kidding. I think they may be confused themselves! Surprised they don't describe themselves using a few "begats." being biblical patriarchs and all.

No. It's father and son. The lawyer just dismissed from the Wilkinson case is David Gibbs III, not this guy. The son has portrayed himself as taking a somewhat different approach to these people and groups than his father has, while still saying he remains within the overall fundamentalist, homeschooling world. That's why he was considered acceptable. He was within the world but supposedly capable of being a critic. He's still arguing that that's what he is, but the validity of his claim is obviously now more in question. The judge, for one, doesn't believe it. Here's the younger Gibbs, who was the one just dismissed in this case: http://www.ncll.org/about/david-gibbs-iii-president https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/10/24/attorney-david-gibbs-iii-discusses-the-iblp-lawsuit-and-answers-important-questions/

Cause Guatemala clearly has no tradition of jewelry making. That idea has to be imported from Arkansas. http://www.vagabondjourney.com/209-0039-mayan-jewelry-clothing.shtml

Hard to tell at this point. But it always did seem quite odd that this guy was the lawyer chosen, since his FATHER is a very well known attorney-champion of Gothard types in sexual-misconduct and other situations and was involved with the Gothard board in their supposed "investigation" of the Gothard sexual-abuse allegations. Read this piece about the lawyer's father to get a feel for how very odd it was that this lawyer would be the lawyer you'd pick to go after Gothard. http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.com/2014/03/david-gibbs-jr-investigating-gothard.html Here are a few choice facts about the lawyer's father: 'Gibbs, whose Christian Law Association has been described as "the Fixers for fundamentalism"' 'Gibbs' firm was also general counsel for Accelerated Christian Education (a.k.a. School of Tomorrow) for over 20 years. According to Johnny Scaramanga at Leaving Fundamentalism, Gibbs served as president of A.C.E. after founder Donald Howard was forced out by scandal. (A.C.E. was the curriculum used at IBLP's Indianapolis Training Center to "homeschool" minors in their care.)' 'David Gibbs, Jr. is also the attorney for First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. When their pastor Jack Schaap confessed to an illicit relationship with a minor from his church in July 2012,' 'Now it seems the IBLP board is counting on David Gibbs, Jr. to conduct an "investigation" into the allegations against Bill Gothard.' If I were trying to fight Gothard, I would not have hired this guy's son and namesake as my lead attorney. But I suppose it may just demonstrate how incestuous and myopic this whole "community" is that that's who they ended up with. It's all very weird, in any case. It's the lead plaintiff who's posted over on Homeschoolers Anonymous. And here's what somebody wrote in response, recommending lawyers who may not have Gothard-loving first-degree relatives: Gretchen, many, many people are hoping that you get justice. Adam Horowitz has represented victims of Fundamental Baptist pastors and has experience with the IFB culture, almost identical to the Gothard culture. He specializes in clergy sex abuse cases in all denominations. The law firm that represented the victims of Russell Hirner (Longview Baptist Temple, Longview TX) pulled out a win for their clients in civil court. The lawyer’s name was Stewart Smith, I believe. I don’t recall his law firm. I can find it again for you if you want it. It’s hard to believe that the Gibbs clan didn’t engineer this on purpose. https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/23/lead-attorney-for-plaintiffs-disqualified-from-bill-gothard-sex-abuse-case/

Sad that this is a family of 19 kids and counting that'll never produce a Dr. Who fan.

A "Christian" "rod"-selling guy who had to abandon his Internet-based business about a decade ago because of public pressure is thrilled to announce (quietly) that he's back to sell again to all those "Christian" families -- and Bible-school teachers! -- who've been missing his wares -- only not on the ebil Internet. Hallelujah! https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/20/that-christian-man-selling-child-training-whips-is-back/ Story includes numerous hideous links that the sensitive should probably just ignore, I think.

Really? Why? I think they look way closer to normal in that picture than in just about any other picture of these families that I've seen. If I didn't know who they were, I wouldn't think they even looked strange, let alone scary! What am I missing?

Nothing says "solid, trustworthy business" like a used car lot that moves unpredictably through space.

I don't know, of course, but maybe a relative's funeral? There's a heaping helping of black and near-enough-to-black-so-I-can-wear-it-to-this clothing in that picture.

Or she could sweep up around pharmaceutical-storage cabinets. The god of Gothardom ("biblical patriarchy," as they like to call it) is created in man's image -- man as defined by the control-freaky insecure "men" who embrace this belief system that is.

Good point. Actual humor -- rather than mean passive aggressive and practical jokes, the Dug specialty -- requires recognition of and appreciation for ambiguity. That's the biggest thing that the Jim Bob and Gothard philosophy will not and cannot tolerate. Unfortunately, JB and M have passed this on as a sacred law to their unfortunate children. If you want to be able to crack a joke unmolested, don't marry a Duggar. No wonder JB can't find any more marriage candidates. Long may allt he candidates resist, too. Maybe if none of the kids can find a spouse, they'll begin to wake up and realize it's time to abandon the tinkertoy house of horrors.

An old friend of mine, and one of the most prim, conservative, meat and persnickety people I've ever known, has always enjoyed the fact that as a child she regularly ate a lot of ants off the sidewalk in front of her house. And not just as a baby but as a grade-school kid. She recently died, in her 90s, and she relished the fact of her long-term bug-eating all the way through to the end. .... I don't think Derick really said that they encourage or overlook issues with Izzy's bug eating. I think he was just making a joke about some of Izzy's newfound food interests but isn't a good enough writer to make the whole story clear in the course of his little joke.

I fear that he does believe this. I think Derick means well, but I also think it's pretty clear that he's basically a naive child who does a lot of magical thinking. I feel wrong bashing people for being innocents of any sort, in a way, but I also think that at a certain point in life you're just indulging in denial when you continue to think this way. I expect that the trouble for Derick is that he couldn't keep holding on to his dumb childhood faith if he didn't also hold onto this kind of blindness, denial and magical thinking, and he can't bear to give up that faith. That puts a bunch of hard choices ahead of him, though. He's either got to move on into a way more mature -- and ambiguous and difficult faith (or a lack of it) -- which would leave Duggardom, SOS, Jilly Muffin and a lot of other stuff behind, or go on being a religious idiot for the foreseeable future. I think he'll choose the second, unfortunately. But I do admit that growing up, in the family circumstances in which he's placed himself, would not be the least bit easy.

She almost certainly won't do Ben-type stuff. Her things are very mainstream, sweet, positive. If Ben and Marjorie raced to see who could gain the most millennial "followers" through their words and work, Marjorie'd win it hands down going away. I expect she's not just expressing what she really likes either, but that she knows that what she likes is pretty salable, too.

Coloring's a huge trend now, though. So if the trend holds through next spring, she may do very well with this. Not everybody likes it, but currently a lot of people do. And her lettering's pretty good. So it's likely to win her more opportunities down the line.