Churchhoney
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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:
If Amy would just shut up about the Duggars and go about life as Amy King she wouldn't be "attacked" (if she even is other than on forums). Of course she wouldn't have any followers or fame either.
But since she's pretty much NOTHING BUT a massive famewhore, this would be a problem for her.
I've wondered what she'd get up to if she'd been born into a situation where there was no easy and obvious route to fame via her family connections..... I suppose it's possible she never would have developed famewhoremania if that were the case. But I can also imagine her doing far crazier stuff than what she does now if her relatives hadn't clambered onto TeeVee and she'd had to do all her famewhoring on her own steam.
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21 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:
* She says unfettered freedom does not produce the good life; it puts you in more bondage.
This last statement about freedom is just a very shorthand version of some MacArthur always says. Suitable for a book written by his PR guy. Jingle may fully understand and believe his commentary or this -- or she may just be going along with it, as she was taught to go along with things. I think it's hard to say when one his people is her coauthor and her husband's entire life and career plan depends on sucking up to J M.
A longer version of what this statement means in MacArthurland is here, not that it'll surprise anybody. This is one of his most common talking points. Very big on how good the good old days were, before there were any liberal churches (he is 83, after all).....and a lot of homophobia, of course.
In short, people used to be kind and obedient to their parents and never never never homosexual. But now!! Nelly bar the door! .....I'm not entirely sure how hating homosexuals contributes to Jingle's newfound freedom, especially since she was supposed to hate homosexuals under the Gothard regime as well. But I think it's pretty clear that Jonny Mac has convinced her that it does.
Not that we could expect anything else.
If you go back three thousand years ago, you have a society of people doing exactly this, and it is the Israelites in the day of the Judges, and it says they wanted to do “whatever is right in our own eyes.” That, from the book of Judges. “We want to do whatever is right in our own eyes.” That’s the kind of time we live in today. Now, in order to do that, you have to make sure that you get the Bible out of the way because the Bible condemns much of what people want to do. So there has to be a denunciation of the Bible and the role that the Bible plays.
You need to get the Bible out of the schools, you need to get the Bible out of the public discourse, because if people bring up the Bible, it’s going to encroach upon someone’s freedom, and if someone quotes the Bible, they’re going to be saying something that somebody doesn’t want to hear, and that in itself should be considered a crime. Laws are fast being installed that are leading to one goal: To make biblical Christianity a crime - to make biblical Christianity a crime, that’s what it is about, to silence the Word of God. The society wants to be free from any moral restraint.
Now, let me tell you what this freedom is. It is not freedom. It is sin addiction. All human beings, apart from the gospel and salvation in Christ, are sin addicts. Everybody has his own assortment and concoction of drugs, but they’re all sin addicts. You can pick your poison, you can pick your sin, and you can even pick the level to which you escalate your sinful behavior, but you have to understand this, that the whole human race is made up of sin addicts. And if anything is true about them, it is this: They are not free.
No one would look at a heroin addict and suggest that that person was free. We would suggest that that is probably the worst sort of temporal human bondage that someone could be in. Someone addicted to opioids or someone addicted to heroin or someone addicted to any other kind of behavior that is destructive, self-destructive, we would never see that as a kind of freedom. We would see it as a horrible bondage that needs to be broken.
We need to look at the entire human race, not as people who are free but as people who are addicted to sin, and it’s an addiction they can’t break, and it’s killing them. And the death is not just physical, it is eternal. The whole human race is sin-sick and addicted to iniquity. In fact, Jesus says in John 8:34 - and here’s the sum of it: Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin, and everyone does commit sin; therefore, everyone is the slave of sin, everyone is an iniquity addict.
Two verses later, in John 8:36, it says, “Only if Christ sets you free are you really free.” So what people in our society think is freedom is simply a more extreme, public, unrestrained manifestation of their addiction to iniquity. In fact, the Bible is so clear about this that it says there is no one who is good, all they are is evil, there’s no good thing in anyone, even that which we might see as righteous is filthy rags.
Picture in your mind the worst scene of human drug addiction as it takes the victim near to death, and he sits in rags somewhere in a black alley, waiting to die and sticking the needle in again, and you have an illustration of what it is to be an unregenerate sinner. You can choose your drug, you can choose your sin, you can’t break your addiction.
When Christ comes, He sets us free from that addiction to sin. In the past, in our culture, there were some sort of social restraints. There were some limits that society put on people. There were certain expectations. You go back a few decades and there was a kind of general sense of goodness, there was a general sense of the importance of family, for example. I don’t know if you know this, 26 out of 27 school shooters had no father. What’s the common denominator?
There was a time when people had mothers and they had fathers and they had families and there was a sense of morality. And there were behaviors that had shame built into them, and you didn’t flaunt them, you hid them. All that is gone. There was a time when you could say there was a general goodness, there was a general kindness. In fact, there were literally millions of people who went to war for this country and other countries and died for the wellbeing of people they would never meet who hadn’t even been born. That was very sacrificial. But that was what people did in a nobler time.
Now there’s a mad rush into every imaginable and unimaginable form of iniquity, and it’s flaunted. This has become a problem for the church because at the same time the world is running rapidly after this freedom, the church has decided it needs to be the friend of these sin-laden people. So there’s a move toward pragmatism. We want to be accepting of these people. We want to welcome these people. We want them to like us.
In the liberal denominations, it’s, of course, reached almost virtually a terminal point where the true church is gone altogether, and the false church is now under the control of immoral ministers, homosexual bishops, lesbian pastors offering same-sex marriage, but even in the evangelical church where people say they believe the gospel, there’s a very, very carefully constructed method to try to win the world over, and that demands that we not confront their true condition. We can’t take their freedom.
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/48-30/understanding-christian-freedom
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7 hours ago, Fosca said:
Why is it so brown? I've never had brown pizza; it looks more like something I cleaned up when my cat ate something wrong.
ETA: Someone on Reddit suggested it was a taco pizza with a refried beans base, burnt cheese, and canned jalapeños. That makes the most sense to me, but I still wouldn't eat it.
According to Jingle's 'gram, it's a sweet-potato base (similar color to refried beans, as you mentioned, except a little more yellowish, I guess) topped with sweet corn, spicy marinara and crumbled bacon......
(As a person who doesn't like sweet vegetables or sweet main courses, period, that sweet-potato base would be a deal-breaker for me.....But I guess I can see some people with different taste buds really fancying it .... I'd prefer the taco refried-bean approach myself )
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4 hours ago, Absolom said:
People may call the church Jinger attends a cult and there are so many definitions of cult that one will fit. But, this is a regular church in the sense that people come and go and pick and choose their beliefs and level of involvement, etc. It isn't the soul binding experience of IBLP/ATI. It's no different than the conservative Presbyterian church a couple miles from my house. In fact, I think it's more liberal in that where Jinger is attending doesn't seem to harp on about women's apparel or say that their place is in the home or discourage education.
I call it cultish in the sense that JM has his own very particular theology that he's basically made up out of whole cloth while intimidating people into accepting it by the claim that he got it directly out of the Hebrew and Greek of the Old and New Testaments.......And that he does really seem to insist that everybody buy his view in all its details.....And it also seems to me (and others! ) that he's clearly had some kind of cult of personality going in his institutions for many years.
I agree with you that in many things Gothardism and some other famous cults are heavy on, like clothing people wear and such, JM's setup isn't very cultlike. And it certainly doesn't APPEAR cultlike at all, in those external matters.
For me, however -- although not for everybody, I realize -- the essence of a cult lies in the cult-of-personality part and in any peculiar tenets of faith or theology that are of the mind-control or groupthink sort that the personality pushes above all else. And JM's worldview has quite a few of those, as I understand it!
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2 hours ago, auntieminem said:
She might be following McArthur's theology now but according to her, she left/or was leaving IBLP before Jeremy and before they moved to LA and started going to Mc's church. I think the big difference was Gothard/IBLP promoted the wisdom book as being the same as the bible. Mc's issue is how he interprets the bible. She is saying that she feels bad for having promoted IBLP and having contributed to people joining. I am curious if in this book she promotes McArthur's "interpretation" of the bible, Calvinism, etc or if she just points out how the IBLP is wrong. I don't like Mc's theology or the man himself but Gothard was more of a cult leader with his wisdom books. Mc is just an ego driven, crappy preacher pushing his crappy beliefs (including sexist) and self serving interpretation of the bible.
Well, the book seems to have been ghostwritten by MacArthur's top PR ad communications guy. He's listed as the coauthor, I guess, but we know what that means. And its publisher has had numerous MacArthur books on their list for years. Plus, the publisher is completely tied in to Calvinism, especially MacArthur-style conservative evangelical Calvinism. So it seems likely they include it in most of not all of the books in their catalog.
So it's hard to see that MacArthur's comms guy (and MacArthur and Jer) would intend the book to be anything but a strong (but well whitewashed, of course) sales pitch for MacArthur's opinions, his schools and his church. His church, like most others, is fighting for a strong well-funded future right now. And they'll get eyeballs on this book because of Jingle's tv exposure and public nostalgia and affection for her. And Jer obviously hopes to make that church or churches connected to it his livelihood.
That suggests the motivations of all the men involved, at least, are the same motivations that David Waller (then a Gothard communications guy) and the Gothard enterprises and JB and M had for participating in a supposed book project about Jingle and her sisters that was actually just a disguised pro-Gothard tract. In a day of slowly dwindling church-cult influence and revenues, this is good PR for your enterprise that you can hide behind a TV-famous young woman.
And can anybody imagine Jingle pushing her coauthor/ghostwriter to tell the story in some way she prefers or to leave out anything that the guy wants to put in? I can't imagine it, given what we've seen of Jingle all this time....
Plus everything I've read and heard about MacArthur says he's a "my way or the highway" kind of guy. In addition to being a guy who seems to have about zero respect for women, except insofar as they're "meek Christian wives" who follow the men's lead in every important area. So I can't really picture him losing this opportunity to hang a PR campaign for himself on Jingle's shoulders!
He IS well known for whitewashing the degree to whish his enterprise is a cult.....So a lot of what he does and preaches WON"T be in the book. But the parts that people find enticing and palatable about his cult and his personal biblical views will be in there, I'm betting. In his mind, I'll bet the book isn't about Jingle at all, but about getting more butts (and wallets) into his pews. (in a sneaky, non-salesy way -- just make readers so curious about this wonderful new thing she's found that they'll want to know more)
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On 12/9/2022 at 6:23 PM, satrunrose said:
I'm so confused. Why is that called a drawing exercise? Why is strawberry spelled wrong? Why are there two categories of objects (foods and household items) on the page? Why would Jeremy think this workbook has any educational value? (Less blame for Jinge who came from per-pen-dic-u-lar and bankruptcy law, although she should have figured out some of this before buying 'educational' material for her kids).
Also, how misguided and hard up is someone who's trying to SELL this....and sell it via THIS "#ad" which...um....wtf? ....It's um, maybe an English-language primer workbook made in China....or somethings similar? Or just....wtf.
This truly is something I can only imagine a person buying because they'd been madly in love with Jingle for well over a decade....
But since I'm sure there are a bunch of people like this, she'll probably spur some sales.....Some grandkids out there are going to get this trophy among their Christmas gifts.
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52 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:
I saw someone say they are Concord grapes, which are different from blueberries.
If they're grapes (and I assume they are because there seem to be vines) then they're almost certainly Concord grapes.
We had those in our yard when I was a kid, and my mother made the most astonishing pies out of them.....You had to get the skins off the grapes first, though. So even though I'd love to taste that pie again and I have the recipe, I've never felt energetic enough to do the prep work.
I'd kinda like to see a Duggar cook try it, though. I might actually watch one of their videos if they did. 😁
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He's been shown in meetings conducted by the church's major outreach program to local universities and colleges. He's also been photographed with men who are heavily involevd in that effort. And at least once it was mentioned somewhere that he was involved with it. THey have meetings all over the area at places convenient to where young people are, mostly colleges. They seem to send enough represenatatives to some places so the groups can meet on a really regular basis. All aimed at college age -- 18-24, basically. LIke this one, where Jer's sermonized. https://www.gracechurch.org/valley
That marketing effort is absolutely crucial to the church's survival, let alone flourishing, as its skewed-elderly population dies off or can just no longer face driving the long distances most of them live from the church,. Plus, it seems to me Jer and ingle were recruited in large part to be part of that multi-pronged marketing program. It's the 20-somethings who'd be most attracted to young people's social media after all. So I'd expect Jer gets a nice solid stipend for his participation, since I'm sure all the staff involved get well paid. That's a do or die church project.
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1 hour ago, Zella said:
That's an incredibly unflattering picture of Jeremy. Is this Jinger's revenge for all the shitty pictures of her he's posted over the years?
On the other hand, maybe she took a dozen photos and this is the one where he looked the best. ....I'd be happier with the revenge scenario. But I think it could go either way.
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13 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:
That seems ridiculous to me with the name starting off He.
It's all about putting God first, I guess.
That...and surreptitiously doing uber-crappy stuff to your children....with total deniability and the bonus of having your whole self-deluded community call you super-duper holy because of it.
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15 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:
I looked up the seasoning packet on Amazon, thinking there would be exotic ingredients, but the ingredients are pretty simple: shallots, vegetable oil, tomato, garlic, salt, and chili.
The depressing thing is that for Duggars, those are exotic.
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1 hour ago, sagittarius sue said:
However, if Jinger gets 2000 of her followers subscribing for $36/year that adds up to $72,000, if 3000 then $108,000.
And considering that those numbers equal about two-tenths of a percent OR LESS of Jingle's follower numbers --- that seems pretty darned doable to me. A SMALL fraction of one percent!
Surely she has at least that many followers who have some kind of big crush on her or who feel great nostalgia for her child self....or who are even haters of a kind who think, "This could be a hoot and 3 bucks a month is nothing, so what the hey!" ...and so on.
The JVs really are getting MUCH better business advice lately.
Ridiculous as it is that Jingle of all people can make a successful business out of being a seminar-leader/party-host/whatever. "Shy and retiring, not witty, not much of a talker and utterly uninformed" is usually a bad combination for activities like that.
IT's a brave new world with social media in it.
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3 hours ago, YupItsMe said:
What could she have to say that’s worth $2.99 a month?
I prefer to think of it as $36 a year. 😁
Seems to clarify that it's really a small-to-medium charity contribution. 🙃
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15 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:
A poster on Reddit, who later said their family attends the same church, says he has/had C diff. Grain of salt and all.
eta, there's speculation there that he was airlifted to the Little Rock children's hospital.
airlift, children's hospital, IVs, c diff, CT scans....
Yeah. Snapshot material if I ever saw any.
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3 hours ago, ozziemom said:
Jessa is shilling that health care sort of insurance again. More of Spurg and his trip to the hospital. He went in a helicopter, appears that Bin is comforting him but someone is filming the whole thing! My guess is Jessa, just like Meechelle, capturing everything on film. Comments are asking what happened to Spurg, but no response.
Looks like she moved her post from stories on Instagram to a regular post with no comments allowed. Hmmmm that was fast! There were a number of negative comments about how lots of things aren’t covered too.
In a helicopter? Good grief. ....And you can't make me believe that a conservative-Christian-health-payment-collab would pay for that in....nearly any circumstance....
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- Popular Post
- Popular Post
14 hours ago, Cinnabon said:Do you have any idea how hateful and abusive John McArthur and his teachings are?
https://julieroys.com/former-members-of-john-macarthurs-church-tell-of-whacker-culture-of-abuse/
She now follows McArthur. . .
https://thewatchmanwakes.org/extraordinary-christian-testimonies-that-expose-john-macarthurs-church-as-a-mind-control-cult/'The colorful letters were at the children’s height, but “they were being used as a way to train them to obey the parents rather than to go for their natural curiosity to a brightly colored object within their grasp and to play with it, this thing that’s obviously a toy.”'
Oh, look -- "blanket training" by another name. Stick a bunch of enticing colorful plastic alphabet magnets on your fridge at toddlers' eye leel, command the toddlers not to touch them, and then whack them with instruments when they do.
Because the children's own beings don't matter. All that matters is their parents' desire to control them completely.and in situations where there's no good reason to do so. (and where the parents are actually but unknowingly doing it because it's part of THEIR training to be good little cultists, wholly obedient to THEIR cult leader)
Lovely.
THe thing that really bothers me about this is that Jingle's just transitioned here from one super-controlling, pseudo-intellectual cult invented by a power-hungry old fart to gain influence and money... to another, slightly different but mostly quite similar, super-controlling, pseudo-intellectual cult invented by a power-hungry old fart to gain influence and money.
And she's been suckered into calling this completely lateral move "freedom." In the title of the SECOND book in which she's being used as a mouthpiece for an old-fart cult leader. Poor thing.
I hope one day she can somehow get out of this correct-Jesus-cultist merry-go-round she's riding in now. (and get her kids out). But that's especially hard for the meek to do, unfortunately.
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I think she's copying her pronunciation from Jeremy.
I didn't listen to her audio, but what's being described sounds pretty similar to the pronunication of the name n New Testament Greek, (which I studied about a hundred years ago and which Jer recently "studied" although he never seemed to finish his coursework in the months allotted.....lol) ......
Using that pronunciation on a daily basis would be fully in line with Jer's pseudo-intellectual pomposity. Constantly demonstrating how much better he is than everybody else. How thrilling to be set apart from others because you casually emphasize the second syllable to subtly demonstrate that you know something esoteric -- and oh so important! -- that others don't know!
When he's not demonstrating his superiority by being (clumsily) trendy, he's deonstrating it by being clumsily pompous.
So -- as usual...not something specifically Jingleish, since I'm pretty sure she's never studied Greek. Just another thing in which she's mimicking her headship.
"Jeremy loves books, so I love books. (Except he doesn't REALLY love books so I don't really lovev books either!)"
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4 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:
She speaks of religion made by men. What does she think Johnny Mac's church is?
She's rejected her former patriarchal brainwashing for a new brand of equally patriarchal brainwashing (which comes with a guarantee that IT'S the CORRECT FORM! -- i.e., the one that God himself invvented.....just like Gothard's did, of course.)
According to JM, everything he and pastors trained correcly say (i.e., pastors he's trained, mostly) comes DIRECTLY through their mouths FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD HIMSELF, who pours his exact words into their brains so they can talk them.
Not even kidding. That's exactly what he teaches. And it's the reason why women aren't allowed to have any instructional roles in his seminary, even to teach something as apparently God's-mouth-not-directly-needed subjects like Greek grammar or something.
According to JM, the God of his bible made it completely clear that he only speaks through properly trained MEN. And therefore it's wrong to allow men who are being trained to be God's ventriloquist dummies to have any educaitonal input from any of these God-said-they're-by-nature-unqualitied females. (I guess the fact that a woman was "instructing" them in some way would confuse them about who God meant to be wholly and entirely in charge?)
Anyway.....As if a God of the entire universe who was worth anything would make up this crap any more than he'd make up Gothard's crap.
But Jer Vuolo says this came straight from God so I guess JIngle has left JB and cleft (cleaved? cloven?)..
It's sickening that she's been used as a ventroquilist's dummy not for one awful group of these misogynists but for two different ones.....And somehow she thinks she/s some kind of book author and has something to look smug and dreamy about....
.I hope something alerts her daughters to the facts at some point in their lives....But they're definitely starting out with obstacles to having any autonomy
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I wonder if Jessa's open to moving any distance.
A heckuva lot of pastors seem to get their next job by moving to another state. Arkansas has a lot of churches, but that also means everybody sees that opportunity and looks for jobs there. So the competition could be fairly intense.
If they're disinclined to move too far away from the TTH, then that would definitely hamper Bin's ability to find a full-time job that pays decently and could have a future (as I'm not sure the current church does -- its profile seems to suggest that it's already had one near-death experience, which isn't a good sign).
Bin's being a dim bulb probably hampers his career trajectory, too, of course. But Jessa's beins super-unsociable and apparently not a joiner, a participator, an empathizer, a cheery person or a hard worker, let alone a leader, hampers it too, I'd expect.
So even if Bin were career-oriented (and he may not be), a lot of factors might be limiting the extent to which he can act that way.
And if "pastor" is his only job thought, I think he'd better get a a different -- or at least an additional -- one.
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16 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:
Cue the Reddit heroes.
Well, probably not this time. This is a much smarter business choice for the Duggs/Vuolos. I think it's a conservative-Chrisitian coffee company. So it is one of their actual smart business moves, at least as far as we know right now!
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30 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:
I have never seen a Bible have you 🤔
Me neither -- and I'm sure that people with Russian Orthodox churches all over their towns have never seen one either.....Now, if he was there during the Soviet Union days, (but I'm pretty sure most of the fundie Russian proselytizing came in the late 80s and beyond...) people were actively dissuaded from looking at those Bibles...>But Russia has a long Christian history, and I think most Russians have been pretty aware of that all aong...
They may not have seen an American Bible.....😟
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5 minutes ago, ginger90 said:
Shocking!
Remember this, “Seriously, it’s seriously good coffee. And they have a subscription service, so it’s seriously convenient. And it’s seriously affordable. It won’t break the bank. Seriously. I’m not sure why you’re still reading this—go check em out!”.🤦♀️
With an ad like that, you can see why they chose her! 😁
"Seriously," they must figure there are still tons of Dugg fans and/or "freeable Jinger" fans out there. And we know how these conservative evangelicals love their coffee -- so I guess it's not surprising.....
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51 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:
I didn't see Mary's name in the obit. Did I miss it?
She's changed her name, according to a Reddit post SHe's the youngest daughter -- listed n the obit this way -- Ann-Phyllis Murphy Elie of Arizona
45 minutes ago, Notabug said:After that, it seems her only contact with her parents was at funerals and such where she caught glimpses of the back of their heads. No communication allowed per her father's orders. When she had the temerity to reach out to her mother, he let her know that all communication was to be through him; her mother was not allowed to speak with or contact her. This lasted 13 years until he died. No blog entries since then, don't know if she was ever able to reconcile with her mother.
He must have been a whale of a "mediator" and super-helpful to those Gothard plaintiffs.....Geez.
Also, such a great "missionary." WIth a specialty in Bludgeoning for the Correct Jesus?
"Medical mission trips and counseling ministry filled his calendar: China, Haiti, several African countries, Russia, England, Guatemala, Mexico. Two years in Moscow brought great joy to him as he directed and participated in the distribution of Bibles in the city and villages -- so many had never even SEEN a Bible!"
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29 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:
Has anyone ever heard of Mary Murphy? She says she was a close childhood friend to the Duggar sisters.
I think it's the family of this guy -- who was a doctor in Springdale and an enthusiastic conservative evangelical.
https://www.nwaonline.com/obituaries/2021/nov/11/garland-murphy-iii-2021-11-11/
I've seen him mentioned a few times in various accounts of the years when IBLP/ATI were wrestling with the abuse allegations against Gothard. When I was looking through those, I looked him up and found out he lived near the Duggs. But I don't remember seeing anything about him or his family except as related to the Gothard mess --
One of those mentions is here -- " I forgot to mention that earlier in the week of the 2014 Denver meeting Bill flew to Mexico to meet with one of the accusers. Her husband was a witness along with Dr. Doty Murphy who accompanied Bill as the mediator. When the abused women were sent packing in 1980 many had no support or money and a meeting was out of the question. Bill for several years after the scandal refused to talk with any of the women because he was supposedly banned by the board from doing so. (He made this claim in a 1983 phone call when he was trying to get Ruth to change her story. The board rule didn't apply when it might benefited him.)"
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/10/negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/
I notice just now that, since Doty died last year, this daughter, Mary, seems to have accused him of CSA.....
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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie
in Counting On
In other words, the same thing that quickly clued Der into the fact that it'd be decades -- or never -- until his wife managed to complete the education required for the SBC to certify them as missionaries.
But hey, Duggar parents and loyalists, your brand of education has nothing but GREAT consequences for those subjected to it.