[Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!]

10 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Is it wrong that I’m hoping hands will shoot up out of the graves and grab their ankles?

If that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right.

[Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)]

7 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Speaking of the Maxwells, it was hoped that because the site was down that Sarah Maxwell had decided not to breed her dog Ellie! But it came back and this update was given recently:

"Ellie has been bred, and we’ll be doing an ultrasound to confirm in July! If things go as expected, her litter will be due in August. Ellie’s pictured below at 8 weeks and her puppies will look very similar.

English Cream Puppies:
$2000 (plus Kansas sales tax, which is a state requirement)

We have enough interest right now to cover the first picks of male and female. But, once the litter is born, and we know how many puppies and gender, we’ll be able to take more deposits. Please contact me at this link if you’re interested in being put on the list to be notified. The deposit simply secures your puppy spot. The $300 deposit is non-refundable.

The puppy comes with limited AKC registration. The limited part simply means you won’t be able to breed your dog. 

One thing that sets KansasGoldens apart from others is this is my pet. Yep! She’s pretty spoiled and well taken care of. In fact, I’ve never boarded her at a kennel, and she sleeps in my room!

Another thing that sets us apart is we don’t require a puppy application. Since you’re investing in a puppy of this caliber, I feel you will properly take care of your dog.

English Cream Golden Retriever puppies go fast!"

This pretty much sums it up, except that I'll add a note about dog breeds. Sarah has been insisting that her almost-white blonde Retriever is it's own breed except it's not. "English Cream" is an invented term for this dog and it's possible the puppies will come out looking like a darker blonde golden retriever. The AKC doesn't recognize this "English Cream" as a breed, because genetically they're no different than regular Golden Retrievers. (Sort like a family with blonde kids and brunette kids). 

Her site is Kansas Goldens. 

$2000 for a pet-quality golden retriever? Christ on a cracker. For that price it had better clean my house, do my taxes and teach my child long division.

[Josiah and Lauren: He Has To Marry Somebody]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

I’m beginning to wonder if Lauren needs professional help...this is getting weird.

She’s clearly having trouble coping to an extreme degree. I worry that if she doesn’t get some counseling or support to help her process her feelings about the miscarriage it will impair her ability to parent her future children in a healthy way. 

[Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)]

16 hours ago, ginger90 said:

For a brief but glorious moment, I thought the top picture was there to accompany an announcement that Timothy was courting. 

[The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy]

10 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Thanks for the good account of where you're coming from. I definitely get what you're saying.

This right here sums it up for me. You believe there's no difference between these two things and I think the difference between them is the only thing that matters. For me, it even affects how much my arm hurts, actually. 

Had I been Amy and felt hurt at Jill's hamhanded comment, I would have tried to put it out of my mind while I coped with my initial grief. And after that was done, I'd have  gone to her, and explained exactly why it upset me and why I thought similar things would upset others.

Then I'd respond to Jill further based on how Jill responded to me. If she tried to understand what I was saying, apologized and said she'd try to remember and think twice about things like this the next time, then we'd be cool (at least until she kept on doing it).  If she blew me off and showed that she truly doesn't give a shit about others' feelings, then I'd walk away from her.

It's those responses that would matter to me. Not the original incident, which happened in the heat of a confusing and fraught time for everybody. The kind of time when a helluva lot of people make big errors in what they do and say. 

 I've seen plenty of cases in which people -- including me -- have responded in massively hamhanded ways to big events. People way older than Jill and presumably way more sophisticated about the ways of the world, too, in many cases.

That's a kind of mistake that I truly think anyone at any age and level of sophistication can make. I don't know if there's anyone who doesn't just respond wrongly sometimes when it's important not to. And I definitely don't think there's anybody who is incapable of responding in a way that inadvertently triggers somebody else's sensibilities and feelings, because we all respond and are sensitive in such different ways -- So for me the question is always, What does the person do after the event if somebody points the problem out to them? 

Washing my hands of the person right then and there? Not an option, as far as I'm concerned, if it involves somebody for whom I don't already have solid evidence of meanness and bad intentions.  In my opinion, doing that would make me an equal contributor -- or even a bigger one -- to the overall problem.  Turning what might be a communication issue only into an angry battle. 

Now I agree that it's quite possible that Amy did start out by telling Jill how bad that post made her feel and why, and asked for an apology.

And it's perfectly possible that Jill didn't comprehend what she was asking or laughed in her face or refused to retract and change. We don't know this whole story. And I don't know what these people are like in real life. Jill may be a really massive jerk. It's quite possible.  

And if that's went down, then I'm fully on board with Amy being pissed off. (Although I'm never on board with putting cryptic nasty messages on the internet that just may be about your friends and relations, no matter what they did. Say what you mean and say it privately when it involves a real-life relationship, is my feeling.)

I definitely understand your position as well. And I don’t actually disagree with much of what you’ve said here — vaguebooking is not an optimal strategy for solving problems, and in an ideal world Amy would have talked to Jill about this. I guess I just empathize with Amy because I think I understand how she feels. I wouldn’t have survived my childhood without my grandfather, who was really the only person in my life who loved me unconditionally and liked me for the person I was instead of the person everyone else wanted me to be. I also have a bunch of cousins and I can easily imagine how I would have felt reading a post like Jill’s right after he died. The pain and anger would have been so visceral that I don’t think I would have had the grace to handle it optimally. Sometimes you’re so hurt that all you can do is chomp. I think that’s probably what it was like for Amy. 

As to the rest of it, I think we all balance intention and action differently when we assess situations. To you, intentions are foremost. To me, actions are. I can see how that would lead us to have different perspectives on this situation! 

I do hope the cousins eventually bury the hatchet. Amy’s marriage doesn’t seem that great and she’s going to need support when the baby comes, especially without Grandma Mary around. 

[The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy]

50 minutes ago, JKL845 said:

1) I never said anything about not having consequences. I don't think Jill is surprised at all.  People get upset over nothing all the time, even things that aren't true. No surprise there. Big deal.

2) Don't think JILL is. 

Who were you talking about, then? Amy? Is there something suggesting that internet strangers prodded her into hurting family members? Her reaction to Jill’s post seemed genuine enough to me. I don’t think she was goaded into being upset by the internet. 

[The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy]

4 hours ago, JKL845 said:

Jill has just as much right to grieve and honor her grandmother as she decides to, just as they all do. I only hope they don't let strangers on the internet prod them into hurting family members during this emotional and stressful time.

1) Too many people think having the right to do something equates to having the right to do something without consequence. Life doesn’t work that way. Of course Jill has the right to grieve however she decides to, including by putting an appallingly inappropriate post on social media. She just shouldn’t be surprised when it makes others angry or upset, and she doesn’t have the right to expect that they won’t also share those feelings on social media.

2) If Jill is letting the opinions of a bunch of strangers on a message board dictate how she behaves toward her family, she needs to get some professional help. 

[The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Actually, I didn't intend to say that Jill should be cut slack because she was infantilized. If it came off that way, I was being unclear.

What I meant to say was that Jill didn't need to be cut slack for anything. I think what she said was 100 percent defensible.

Her particular Christian belief --- and what is certainly Mary's as well -- makes what Jill said not just accurate but a perfectly right thing to say under the circumstances. As far as I know, Christians who firmly believe in the resurrection of the body -- and I'm 100 percent sure that not just Jill but Mary believe/d in this -- consider that the most comforting thing you can possibly say about the death of a believing Christian. She is with the Lord in her renewed body and she is happier than she has ever been. 

After a couple recent deaths in my family, I was assured of this by several people. They intended to be comforting because for them this is the most comforting thought in the world. I don't believe a word of it, but I understood the spirit in which it was intended and I didn't feel critical of them a bit for saying it. And one of the deaths in question was every bit as horrific as Mary's, if not more so.

I was in a devastated state from the horrors the deceased person had gone through, but it never occurred to me for one second to be annoyed at somebody for expressing a belief that they consider a great comfort.  I understood that they meant well, so I think it's simply wrong to criticize someone for "bad taste" when their intentions are good. 

And as for the way Jill articulated what Mary may have been thinking, I find that completely understandable as well.  

I would bet big money that Mary had conversations very similar to the ones Jill invented in her post. After her recent illnesses that left her much more frail than she'd ever imagined, someone who they all describe as an ardent, constant, "soul-winner" almost certainly would have talked longingly and casually about her hopes for the hereafter, I expect. Because I'm sure she felt she had a very personal relationship with Jesus and talked about God and heaven in a personal and casual way.

And the fact that Jill put it in slangy, down-home language, to me simply reflects the fact that both Jill and Mary are and always have been what Michelle describes as "barefoot and backyard people." That's the way Jill talks and it's almost certainly the way Mary talked, too, I imagine. 

So, again, the language isn't the way some would talk. But I don't consider that "'bad taste." It's personal and slangy because these were people who believe they have a personal and slangy relationship with Jesus. And my bet is that Mary had that, just as Jill does. 

I wouldn't put a bunch of emojis in a social-media post about death. But I can't criticize it as anything more than something done by somebody who's clueless about nuances of expression. 

For me, "tacky" and "clueless" are seldom very valid or meaningful criticisms or insults, when you come down to it.

In my opinion, "tacky" and "in bad taste" almost never relate to ethics or morality or ill intentions. They're virtually always just a sign of hamhandedness or ignorance. And they often go along with perfectly good intentions, in my experience, and, to me, that's really the only thing that matters when it comes to how you behave toward others. 

I disagree. I don’t think Jill’s intentions were malicious, but I don’t think that fact obviates her responsibility to think about others. Intentions matter, but I think too many people get a pass for bad or poorly-thought-out behavior because they claim not to have had bad intentions. If you knock me down and I break my arm, it doesn’t really matter (except possibly in a legal sense) whether you knocked me down out of spite or carelessness. My arm hurts just as much either way. 

If Grandma Mary’s death had been expected or happened under less awful circumstances, I think Jill’s post would have been defensible. But her grandmother drowned unexpectedly and her body was discovered by a member of the family. It isn’t exactly Advanced Etiquette to realize you shouldn’t be jovial about her death in a social media post you put up *right after she dies* and that others in your family, including the daughter of the woman who found her, are going to see. Jill can feel however she wants, but that doesn’t mean she has to share it with the world. As someone else pointed out above, Jill is 28 years old and a mother of two. She has no excuse to be that clueless about nuances of expression. I can understand why Amy might have been upset. 

[The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy]

My feelings are entirely with Amy in this situation. People saying we need to cut Jill some slack for her inappropriate emoji post because she was infantilized by her upbringing need to remember that Amy’s upbringing wasn’t wine and roses either, what with her mother filing for restraining orders against her reportedly violent father and all. Plus Amy had no siblings for support and went largely without the material advantages and fawning attention her cousins got after the show started. I think she was genuinely close to Mary and I believe her when she says Mary was like a second mother to her. If I were her and I had seen posts like Jill’s “gramma died, lol” or Lauren’s “this is all about meeeeeeeee” I would have been infuriated. 

[Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)]

18 hours ago, ginger90 said:

7 pictures:

They had to specify it was a “vocal, singing” competition? There’s such a thing as a silent singing competition? How do they judge that? Do you have to mime, or do interpretive dance? 

[Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)]

1 hour ago, Temperance said:

Alyssa Bates (Websterforever) is feeling very sick. She went to the doctor and had testing done. I hope she's okay. 

She posted about it on Instagram.

I hope she’s all right as well. Her life must be very stressful — three kids under four, a night job cleaning offices, and all the social media stuff she does would really take a toll. I doubt she gets much sleep. 

[Small Talk: The Prayer Closet]

13 hours ago, Christina87 said:

That would be my sister! Her apartment was always FILTHY, bordering on a hoarding situation. She just moved into a house, and I hope to God she can keep it clean. I just don't get that! How can you live with that level of filth and clutter constantly? I also wonder how it affects her dating life, because she will have to find another person with zero cleanliness standards to accept that. Even guys who don't believe in traditional gender roles will certainly balk at a woman who lives in filth!

I mean, I don’t know your sister, but it’s possible that her decisions aren’t all made on the basis of how they’ll affect her dating life? It’s kind of off-putting to see an adult woman’s housekeeping standards being criticized because they make it less likely that she’ll land a man. That kind of thinking is really not very different from the sexist attitudes we criticize the Duggars for having. 

[Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!]

18 hours ago, ginger90 said:

New blog post: most of the pictures are repeats so I just included a few.

March 2019 Pictures and Videos

Jun 8, 2019 | Family Blog, Photos | 1 

The month of March included some snow, Derick’s birthday, trips to the park, visits to our house under construction, and time with family and friends over Derick’s spring break!

Hope you enjoy the pictures and videos in this long overdue post! I contemplated switching to smaller, regular updates and not doing the monthly pictures and videos, but haven’t decided yet…I’m gonna try to catch up on the past few monthly ones for now. 

What is up with those folding chairs? Did all the birthday party guests sit there and watch Derick climb the wall? If they brought a gift, did they get to pelt him with tennis balls as he climbed? If so, why wasn’t I invited? That would have been worth spending a few bucks on a 12-pack of Gatorade. 

I think it’s incredibly sad that Derick posts a picture of him absorbed in a laptop while Sam is next to him playing with a pencil and hashtags it #fathersontime. Having your child in the same room with you when you are doing your taxes is not father/son time. Take the kid to the park. It’s not like you have anything better to do over summer vacation since you obviously don’t have a job. 

[Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)]

3 minutes ago, Libby96 said:

Not that it’s any of my business, and not that I wish anyone ill, but holy heavens why is Erin Bates so willing to play Russian roulette with her health?  And why isn’t the husband who appears to worship the ground she walk on willing to put on his big boy pants and protect her? My understanding of their beliefs is that if he wanted to limit their family size, she would have to comply.  

They have three beautiful children despite her clotting disorder.  I wish they would see this as an enormous blessing instead of a sign to continue making a baby every 18 months.

Even as a fellow Christian, I can’t wrap my head around this idea that using birth control means you aren’t trusting God.  Should I just give up seat belts because using them would mean I’m not trusting God to protect me on a wreck?  Should I throw my blood thinner in the trash since that would mean I’m not trusting God to prevent another mini-stroke?  God gave us medical science and a brain.  That is part of His blessings to us as well.

It was interesting to read Erin’s post. She said they had #2 (can’t remember her name) because they knew Carson needed a younger sibling and had Everly because they knew #2 needed a younger sibling but that Everly “just got lucky.” This makes it sound like #4 was unexpected. Similarly, I remember someone (her mother in law?) saying something to Alyssa about having three kids in three years and Alyssa replying “that wasn’t the plan” or something like that. I’m at a loss as to how they think they can avoid pregnancy without using some sort of contraception, but it’s possible they did intend to space their pregnancies differently. 

[Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)]

16 hours ago, Absolom said:

Jill wants us to believe she, Tim, and David couldn't comprehend this chart?  It's readily available and pretty specific.  

Tim probably never saw that chart because he’s not allowed to use the internet. It might turn him gay or make him look at porn. Jill and David certainly should have been able to find it, though. 

[Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!]

Well if Jill and her matted hair of doom wear dresses like that very often I guess we can stop speculating about what they use for birth control. 

[Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

Probably too busy servicing the big D.

🤢

[Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House]

On 5/21/2019 at 6:55 AM, beckie said:

Looking at the picture more closely, I do see the sleeves on that one dress, but I still think Jessa wouldn't wear a dress cut like that and the one the girl supposedly her is wearing, doesn't have sleeves or anything with their definition of modest. (That I could see, anyway.)  

It looks like she did that thing where she gave the bridesmaids a color and designer and let them choose their own dresses. It’s a smart way to go, especially when you’ve got attendants with different standards of appropriate dress. 

I thought the wedding dress was tacky. There, I said it. 

[Josiah and Lauren: He Has To Marry Somebody]

If she is pregnant, Josiah’s mother’s day post doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. 

[Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!]

2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Who’s riding herd on the kiddie table, anyone?

Joy? She’s not pictured at the adult table. 

[The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie]

12 hours ago, Lunera said:

Jinger posted a #tbt of her, Jessa, and Joe as kids. We know Joe and Jessa have babies on the way, is she trying to tell us something? Is this like Anna's 3 pregnant Duggars picture? 

I wouldn’t read too much into it. These are the Duggars. At least one of them is pregnant basically all the time. 

[Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!]

20 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Does Sammy have giant feet or do they put him in shoes that are too big? Or ... maybe they're onto him and they put him in clodhoppers to slow him down during his escape attempts.

I think it might be time for Sammy to team up with Jeremy’s lynx. 

[The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie]

I hate it when men wear polos with a sport coat or suit jacket. Even my 82-year-old father in law looks like a dork in that ensemble.

[JD and Abbie: Captured Before the Rapture]

4 hours ago, Temperance said:

Also they haven't been married 7 months until June. 

Okay, six months and two weeks then. Whatever. Regardless, except Jinger (who probably was using birth control) this is the longest any Duggar or Duggar spouse has gone without conceiving after marriage by several months. Jill, Joy, Kendra and Lauren all conceived within a month, and Jessa and Anna conceived in 3 months. Barring fertility issues, I would have expected Abbie to be pregnant by now if she wasn’t using protection.

[The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie]

1 hour ago, BigBingerBro said:

$156 + for a baby pillow?  No thanks.

We just plunked Mini Mistake on a blanket on the floor. Those loungers don’t look that safe. You aren’t supposed to put babies in soft bedding because they can roll and smother themselves.