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lucifer316

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  1. Your point about motivation is the reason I tend to view all 3 as having fairly even motivations, but if not even Ramse's is hardly an unworthy one IMO. Epic love story not yet but the triangle is already in place and anyone who watches TV knows you must have your triangle. That has to be followed by several seasons of flip-flopping. Cassie not being upset about Cole 'dying' makes sense given her survival instinct at this point in time probably trumps any feelings she has for him, especially since she still harbors feelings for Aaron. As for Jones and Cassie, actually Jones told Cole in no uncertain terms prior to his 3rd splinter that he was to leave Cassie out of it, that it was never her intention for Cole to make Cassie his accomplise. In fact in the post op 'briefing' Jones mentions finding Cassie's name in the paper work and procceds to yell at Cole that she gave him specific orders not to get her involved. This all bookended the 2nd episode. That is fine regarding the motivations of Cassie and Aaron as they live in the preplague time. We are disussing the motivations of those who are from 2043. Ramse wants to save his family, so why is that any different than what you want. Why should Ramse care more about people who are already dead over his own son.
  2. I am sorry but you have a group of people who are dead vs a group of people who are alive, why do the dead matter more than the living. As for the numbers being comparable or not what killing millions is bad but killing thousands is ok, Killing live people vs allowing dead people to remain dead. I don't think Cole is portrayed as a skirt chaser it was just short hand for pointing out that his motivations are being decided below his waist. I guess in a manner of speaking the same thing could be said about Ramse from a different perspective. Look I get it people love Cole and thus his side is automatically noble and good while those opposed are aren't. I just don't see it that black and white.
  3. His initial motivation was not to save the world the back story of their capture and his reluctance to even stick around tells a completely different story. He stuck around because there was nothing else to do and they were close to dying the last time they were on their own prior to meeting up with West VII. By going along with these people he was given sanctuary and food etc. He absolutely was not in it to save the world. Also I am sorry but you can tell by watching that given a clear choice between stopping the plague and letting Cassie die or saving Cassie and attempting to stop the plague at another time he would choose the former, and I would not be shocked if at some point we do not see an episode where something like that happens. Personally screen time doesn't equate to relatability. At this point I don't have a horse in the race so to speak but being a father I can relate to Ramse's motivations much more than I can to Cole's.
  4. I am sorry but that first sentence is not entirely correct. If Ramse's son will 'die' as a result of the plague not happening it stands to reason that there are a number of other people who will also cease to exist. These are people who actully exist in 2043 who are being 'killed' by the actions of Jones and Cole, how are those lives any less valuable than the ones that Ramse goes back in time to kill who are technically already dead in 2043. Both sides are picking and choosing a group of people who will live or die and their motivation to save a particular group is the same across all three people. Hell Cole went back in time because he would have been dead in less than a month if he and Ramse had to go back out into the wilds, so I am not sure how people are ascribing all of these noble intentions to the guy. His out of nowhere love for Cassie caused him to take a 180 just like Ramse's character. The only difference is one is portrayed as good and the other evil. I don't see it as quite so black and white personally because I empathize with the guy and his son more than the skirt chaser.
  5. The fight just like jumping into the 'time machine' was a live or die choice he had to make. There was no other option for him, there was no them fighting their way out back to back or anything of the sort. It was kill or be killed and his death would mean the 'death' of his son.
  6. The watches do not eliminate themselves as Cole picks one up next to Goines' dead body and hands it to Cassie and tells her not to lose it. In fact you can also see the watch in the scene where she dies, it is on her wrist and the scratch becomes undone.
  7. The whole idea of motivation is what bothers me about the criticism of how the Ramse character was handled vis a vis his son as motivation. Cole is doing what he is doing to save Cassie and Jones is doing what she is doing to save her daughter, why is Ramse doing what he is doing for his son any less believable. Because he knew him for 5 minutes, well the same could be said for how long Cole knew Cassie and there is no blood relation there. It is funny how quick people are to dismiss love at first sight for your child while having no issue with romantic love at first sight. I get it shippers rule the tv scene nowadays and you can't get away with creating a show that doesn't have star crossed lovers involved in a love triangle, I think the internet would blow up if these things didn't exist in tv today. But it really bothers me that people who are rooting for a pair of strangers who have no blood connection with each other are at the same time having a hissy fit that Ramse became a father the minute he laid eyes on his son. Ramse's motivation is no less pure than that of either Jones or Cole in my opinion.
  8. It isn't just one life though is it. I mean it is one life Ramse might be focused on but if his son would cease to exist as a result of stopping the plague there would have to be others wouldn't there. It may be only be hundreds or thousands or even millions vs billions, but the reality isn't 1 vs billions like is being portrayed. Granted he might not give a crap about anything more than that 1 but why should he. Why should the billions he has never met mean more to him than those he has already met. Jones isn't doing what she is doing for the billions she is just doing it for 1, why is she a good guy for wanting to kill however many would cease to exist to bring back 1 while Ramse is a bad guy for wanting to leave billions dead so the 1 can continue to live. So yeah great question and tough to answer because it isn't really all that black and white.
  9. If she is a time traveler perhaps she comes from so far in the future that there are no accents, perhaps that is what they are attempting to portray with her voice.
  10. A couple of reasons. First, as we witnessed when Cole 'convinced' Goines to buy the specimen as well as other times where Cole seemed to be jump starting the plague rather than foiling it, Cole's interference is absolutely necessary for the plague to happen. Events being both cause and effect. Also Ramse believed that Cole was killed in 1987 so everything would need to happen exactly as it already had in order for them to both end up in 1987 when they did. Any change might not just allow Cole to live but might also lead to Ramse not having come back to the past. 2043 only happens because everything that occurs happens exactly the way it has and the reason we know this is that other than the time that Cassie died prematurely every splinter back to 2043 was to the exact same 2043. Changing anything regarding what Cole did prior to him and Ramse going back to 1987 runs the risk of preventing that from happening which runs the risk of preventing the plague. Cole and Ramse in 1987 are both necessary to the plague being released so they cannot run the risk of those things not happening. Cause and effect. Cole going back in time and mucking about with things is what caused the plague to happen. Cole going back in time and mucking about with things is the effect of the plague happening.
  11. It continues to tie into the idea of events being cause and effect as brought up by Jennifer last week when referencing the death of Elena which was happening concurrently.
  12. It was a decent enough episode and I understand the whole getting up to speed from Ramse's perspective but there was an awful lot of just replaying things from Cole's perspective while Ramse happened to 'witness'. Technically he wasn't witnessing because he wasn't there but rather being told about what happened although he already knew having been told by Cole what had happened. Which was why he allowed all of it to happen because it all had to happen. Seems really early for a clip show given it really wasn't necessary to play all of those scenes again for us. I actually don't have a problem with the flip of Ramse, Cole's protectiveness over Cassie goes much further than just wanting to keep her around to record something to get the ball rolling in the future and he didn't know her much longer than Ramse knew his son when he started making bad decisions based on keeping her safe. Also I could have sworn that Ramse's intent was to blow up the time travel device and he was foiled in that attempt. So going back in time was not his first choice but rather the only choice left to him after the bomb was removed. There was no way in hell they were going to let him give himself up and walk out of there alive. The season is quickly coming to a conclusion and while this was a nice reveal at this point in the show as usual we are left with more questions than answers. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out. With the way things get cancelled left and right anymore shows like this have to be self-contained in terms of a season while at the same time leaving enough threads available to pull on for next season.
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