Kimmature

The acting and the cast are far outpacing the writing, which is a shame. I like the premise, and a lot of the actors are bringing it, but the major plot gaps/stilted dialogue are just making it difficult to keep watching.

Not a high point in the series for me- a lot of it just seemed to be beating us over the plot points and characterizations that had been set a a while ago. But it looks like they'll be doing it for many years in the future, so I'm still all in. This episode seemed a bit poorly though out and done for the sake of doing it, but as viewers we probably won't care as much in a few decades.

I'd be thrilled if the franchise went to someone new, instead of just retreading past contestants. Except for boring Sean and Catherine (and the really disturbing focus on their 'honeymoon bed'), isn't it a given now that past contestants have a much better 'love' track record on Bachelor Pad and Bachelor in Paradise? I'm cringing at the thought of sitting through Jade and Tanner's wedding, and I had a huge thumbs up for Marcus not being on the horrendous Bachelor float- I just don't find re-treads that interesting. I liked Amber the first few times that I saw her, but she just emphasized that there's something seriously wrong with anyone who goes on the franchise more than once. Why not bring in completely new blood? I do like Ben more than I thought that I would, but most of his contestants bore me to tears. Drunk girl, crazy girl, girls who are incredibly gorgeous and apparently likable but must have something very wrong with them if they're ending up on a reality TV show to find a partner when they're 24. I think that the "Bachelor Family" must be so inbred and so focused on TV that they may forget that at least a small soupcon of surprise would be a good thing. Then again, it's ABC, so at least they're not making everyone dress up as Belle every single date.

I'm actually enjoying this season- usually by episode 3 I'm hate-watching it. I still think that the show's a crock as far as being a useful way to find a partner, but I think that Ben's doing a great job, and most of the women aren't incredibly annoying. Obviously the producers have to maximize drama wherever they can, but really, they all seem like pretty decent people. My only real problem is that everyone is so young- thinking that you're going to find 'everlasting love' when you're 23 and your brain hasn't even finished developing is a bit icky to me. I watch the show with my 20 year old daughter and while she's very mature for her age, even she is a bit taken aback that people seem to be desperate to get married that young. But it's been fun so far- I was surprised that Lacy took herself out so quickly, but good for her.

More like Andi's history wasn't talked about because it didn't fit the narrative of the show. Even aside from her religion- remember her intro about her being a law and order type prosecutor? No mention that she walked out on a trial and (apparently) gave up her law license to be the Bachelorette, and hasn't made any attempt to get it back. It's like Kaitlyn being Canadian- Chris Soules couldn't travel to Canada because of his DUI conviction, so her being Canadian wasn't worth mentioning. The show doesn't talk about things that they don't want to talk about- there's a reason that we never see any of the leads discussing actually important issues like religion and politics, because the producers don't want to alienate any of their viewing audience. We're a bit snarky on these forums, but there are apparently a great deal of viewers out there who think that the show is really about 'true love'. Being even culturally Jewish or Christian does actually 'matter' to a lot of couples when they're trying to make a life together.

The twin thing just pisses me off. I've got multiple birth kids, and I hate the 'let's have sex with siblings' thing. Ben's apparently the next thing to asexual, so why even go there? Cute mini-horse...chicken lady should have brought her pets along. Enough of the women were almost fainting at the sight of the horse (who presumably pooped everywhere off-camera)...the chickens might have livened things up a bit. At least it looks like they're going abroad this year- I guess that Ben doesn't have any travel restrictions on him. If he is sane, nice, a great catch, etc- why is he on the show? He's not unlikable onscreen, but there must be some reason why he's choosing to make a fool of himself on TV. He seems like a decent kind of guy, so I'm just left wondering why he's even on the show. The last few Bachelors have been pretty obvious about being attention whores, but there doesn't seem to be much reason why Ben hasn't found a less public area to 'find love' in.

The Countess/Gaga is really the least interesting thing about this season, and that's saying something. Nice costuming and a bit of screen presence, but she just has nothing to work with. Sarah Paulson's character is also boring me to tears- I've liked her on occasion, but she doesn't have much to work with. I think that the supporting players took the cake this episode- Dahmer and Gacy were spot on, and while Lily Rabe was awesome, it seemed like she was trying to even more overact Charlize Theron's interpretation? Was that Twisty or Pennywise at the end? Too bad that that Manson or Jack the Ripper or Madame de la Laurie or Timothy McVeigh or Albert Fish or Mengele or James Cromwell didn't show up. Given the detective's affinity for serial killers, it's too bad that there isn't some book Red Dragon/Silence of the Lambs storylines going on with him. Poor tortured detective who apparently has no common sense at all- boring. I wish that they'd just forget the whole vampire/addiction thing and get to Liz Taylor's story. I I'd guess that Chloe's is going to have the Countess for breakfast very soon, and probably also find a 'cure' for the non-vampire behaviour. If nothing else, she'll probably substitute granola for the color coded candy in the video room.

When Charming said "Merlin?" and Merlin responded with "You were expecting someone...." I just filled in the "whiter" part of it. I don't think that "older" was the first thing that crossed dumbass' mind. I like this Merlin- not only is he easy on the eyes and the ears, but he seems fairly stable, which might be a good addition to the show. I'm sick of Henry's storylines, but I think that the actor is doing a fine job with him this season. And for a change (even though it was fake), it was nice to see someone getting friend-zoned for a change. Every time prospective couples meet it mostly seems to be ever lasting love or hatred- it was a nice touch of reality to see someone even fake say "sorry, I don't like you that way". Please, get rid of Merida. From what I remember about the movie she was a bit smarter than she's being portrayed, and not quite so fake beautiful. She looks like she spends 4 hours in makeup every morning, and that wasn't my impression of her.

I'm finding the season a bit uneven so far- some very great performances by some of the actors, and a (very few) interesting storylines. No discredit to Gaga as I don't think that she's doing that horrible a job, but well-dressed, fairly stupid vampire has been done to death. And despite Murphy's 'they're not vampires, they've got a blood addiction' insistence, if it walks like a vampire and kills like a vampire and doesn't in any way stray from the vampire myth, they're vampires. Especially now that Angela's on the scene, it's hard to believe that she wouldn't have been killed off long ago. Great costumes though. Loving Matt Bomer, and Evan Peters (for a change). I'm always laughing when they're onscreen. Liz Taylor (Dennis) is just wonderful, and as usual Kathy Bates is killing everything. Finn Wittrock is just fantastic, and while I'm not usually a Chloe fan in the series, I think that she's one of the most interesting characters this season. Having been in a few grief groups over the decades, I think that she's nailing her character. They could stop dressing her up as Nicky from Big Love though.

Not my favourite season before, but at least there's no Frozen. I'd hoped that Arthur might be an interesting character- I never liked the Disney version of his story. I hope that they actually do the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot treatment with some subtlety, not just having Arthur be evil. So far I can't see that he's done anything wrong- getting his squire to drink the poison was pretty hardcore, but I think that you could make a case for him just trying to get his people home. If he'd left Charming with the Black Knights on the pond then I'd assume he's evil according to the show, but right now he could well just be trying to get his people back home. Not interested in Charming and Snow at all, but it was nice to see that someone provided necessities for the baby. The Henry/random brunette girl was cute. Hopefully he'll have some post-puberty angst about his world at some point- given his family experiences, he's got a bit of a right to start calling the adults in his life to account a bit for themselves, rather than being endlessly supportive. I'd rather have seen him jump in and become the Dark One, as I think that it would have made more sense in moving the story along. I love Lana Parrilla and Robert Carlyle, but I'm getting a bit bored with the are they good/are they bad storylines. Not their fault- it's just lazy writing. I am happy every time Hook is on screen- I think a bit less of Hook's character because he's with Emma, but Colin certainly brings it. I kind of like the few scenes of him and Robin together- an ultrasound and cell phone would actually be pretty bizarre to anyone who'd grown up thinking in terms of signal fires for communication and herbs for childbirth. Most of the 'fairy tale' people have adjusted way too easily to 'modern life', and it's good to see even a few minutes of "WTF" between two characters.

H.H. Holmes house was full of chutes leading to incinerators, lime pits, false elevators etc. From everything I've read about the series so far, the actual hotel is based in great part on Holmes' house of horrors, even though the show isn't really plumbing the depths of that yet. If you look at the schematics of his house, his number of victims, and the ease in which he made a living off of insurance claims etc., it's a lot scarier than fake vampires and whiny ghosts. The one thing that really rang true to me about this episode was when Gaga said that her favourite year was 1979. It was a horrible year for fashion, music, politics, wars, education, but it was pretty much the last year before AIDS happened, when we learned to expect that young people would die en masse, that sex had actual consequences that antibiotics couldn't cure, and before politics became extremely partisan, and hateful towards education.

Still binge watching this season, and I think that it might have been better to wait a week between episodes. I'm still giving thanks that Elsa and Anna are gone (at least for the moment.) I'm becoming much less fond of the 'your destiny is predetermined' storylines. Yes, there may be an 'author' or a God, but if everything is predestined then how you live your life really doesn't matter. Margene's and Josh's reactions to having an adult daughter just seems a bit weird, to say the least. No matter what your parenting skills are (and they haven't shown many), at some point, it's a bit healthy to stop being quite so invested in your child's life. Other people don't give you 'happy endings' (although I do still giggle a bit whenever I hear that phrase)...you create them for yourself. Biology is not destiny, no matter what Star Wars tries to tell you. And the Disney/ABC thing is getting worse. At this point I'm actually hoping that Chris Harrison is the Sorcerer. Still love the actors, and have huge crushes on many of the characters. The stories just aren't keeping up with the talent that they have available to them.

Binge watching season 4, and damn, I hope that the Frozen storyline is over now. Loved the actress that played Elsa, but the characters were just abysmally stupid. Could Anna and Kristoff together put together two syllables in a row? The reindeer seemed more interesting than either of them. What would happen if they had a child? And if you're an ice queen, wouldn't you perhaps not choose to be clad in cheap sky blue polyester with skating school sequins haphazardly sewn on? I did actually like this episode- no real surprises, but it was nice to see a bit of snark, and humour. I'm a bit tired of the 'biology is destiny' thing, and I'm pretty tired of adults whining about childhood traumas (get help, over get over it). It was nice to see Ginnifer and Josh go at each other a bit. I would have appreciated a bit of Jiminy Cricket letting himself go onscreen.

I think that the show has pretty much jumped the shark for me. I'm vaguely invested in a few people, but either I've watched too much Unreal or it's just become so stupid that I don't care that much now. The editing has been so horrible this season- people have sunburns, then they don't, people go on dates or have wet clothes, and then not. Edits that paint someone as a villain or victim are done and gone after 10 minutes of airtime- more power to them. I don't care about Joe, or Samantha. I think that the producers pretty much beat that storyline into the ground a few episodes ago. I don't care about Juelia- she signed up for a dating reality show, and that's turned out to be as bad a decision as you would expect it to be. The crap about who contacted who prior to filming is really just shit- the "Bachelor Family" is a very small group of D-list celebrities who have some sort of investment in playing out their franchise roles. Everyone talks to each other- get over it. I admit that I'm a sucker for the franchise, but I'm finding it pretty hard slogging right now. I don't care about or hate enough people to stay interested- I'll watch it to the end because my kids want to, but it used to be at least fun to watch.

Well, my hat's off to JJ. That's the first time the franchise has surprised me in quite a while (if ever). Nice to have something different to think about than Joe for a few minutes.

I seem to remember last season being a lot more fun- this is just like watching 13 year olds squabble when puberty hits.

Was it really necessary to intercut the handjob footage with the little girl on the phone? That's a new low even for this show.

I think that Bachelor in Paradise is almost there. It's so incredibly stupid and producer manipulated that it's hard not to believe that everyone involved isn't doing it tongue in cheek. Raccoons, has beens, really horrible settings- given the ratings, and the last few seasons of the Bachelor and Bachelorette, the producers seem to be going out of their way to make fun of the franchise. There's nothing that's not idiotic about it. But I'd pay more to see a behind the scenes of RuPaul's Drag Race. It's a long standing favourite in our house, and there's no doubt that it's a bit more competitive and weird than how it appears onscreen.

Not only on the forum- everywhere on social media. I can't imagine why anyone would want to be the Bachelor/ette- people are just vicious. I think that there's a lot of room for snark and ironically watching the show (which does have a pretty ridiculous premise), but there's no need to actually be cruel. And I think that a lot of people forget that we only see the storyline that fits the narrative that the producers want to put together after the whole thing is filmed. I don't like Shawn as he's presented on the show now, but I really doubt if he's that big of a jealous/insecure/immature little boy in real life. They've probably got piles of footage of him being a perfectly decent person, and of him and Kaitlyn having real interactions, but that's not what they wanted to show. They've probably also got tired/grumpy/drunk/idiot footage of Ben H. and Jared, but since they're labelled 'good guys', we didn't see it.

Producer set-up- Nick likely didn't even know who was having the fantasy suite what night, or where it was. Kind of like when the hotel just apparently handed over Nick's room number to Shawn- that kind of thing doesn't happen without producer involvement. The editing and producer choices just keep on getting stranger this year- after lots of morning after afterglow with Nick and Ben, and Kaitlyn's big "I need the overnight to see if Shawn is actually a 12 year old", we just see them giving each other disappointed grumpy face, and yet apparently their night together was good enough for her to keep him. Hometown visits in a random hotel? Isn't the point of them to see their potentials in their own environment, meet friends etc? And Shawn's getting just a horrible edit if he is the F1- right now he doesn't seem mature enough to tie his shoes, let alone propose. Only a few more weeks until Bachelor in Paradise!

The latest issue of OK magazine says that Khloe Kardashian is in talks to be the next Bachelorette (I don't think that it's online yet- I just get it on my tablet). If that's the case it's probably a pretty clear signal that the producers have given up on the 'true love' idea.

Huh- my experience with social media has been different. i don't follow a lot of previous contestants/'stars' of the franchise, but the ones that I do follow mostly seem to be fans of Kaitlyn. Of course there's slut-shaming, because middle America wants to pretend that the Bachelor/ette is about finding 'true love', and not a weird form of polygamy/polyandry where the 'lead' is expected to form 'real and lasting connections' with multiple people in the course of a few weeks, when they're sleep-deprived and given a lot of access to alcohol. The producers aren't hoping for 'true love' any more (if they ever were)...the ratings for Bachelor in Paradise last year were higher than they've been for a long time, so they're after controversy and titillation, not 'love'. Producer manipulation has been more obvious this season than in past seasons. Weird edits where people change (Clint's all of a sudden gay, Ian flips his lid, Cupcake gives a real try at crying onscreen, J.J. goes from 'villain' to meh, Joe goes from great to asshole in 2 minutes), and it's pretty obvious that Nick wouldn't have been introduced when he was unless the producers meant him to be. It's not like they didn't know that he and Kaitlyn had been interacting online, or that they had an interest in each other. He didn't beg his way into the show- he wouldn't be there unless the producers wanted him to be. Everything about the format of the show has always screamed Stockholm Syndrome. Put a bunch of people in a small space, give them a lot of alcohol, convince them that they're going for a 'prize'. Given the 'success rate' of Bachelor/ette couples long-term, you'd probably be as likely to find your true love in a one night stand.

Shawn's pants in the nighttime part of their date didn't do him any favours either. When he stormed past her to the bathroom to ease his wounded soul it looked like he was wearing diapers under his dress pants. Kaitlyn's eyeshadow was also horrible tonight. The dark metallic stuff just made her look old, although I'm guessing that she's glad that the makeup artists have moved past that pinky/fuschia type lipstick that all of the girls were wearing on Andi and Chris' seasons.

I see Shawn's and Kaitlyn's first night at home together (if that's how things turn out) spent with him deleting all of her male friends and exes off of her social media, and putting a halt to any future meetings. He didn't seem crazy at the first of the season, but he's certainly coming off that way now. Then again, not many people are getting a good edit this year. The Britt/Brady thing got even weirder- they seemed like they could barely wait to get away from each other, and her ITM still had her wearing the stupid hat. I'd be fine with Ben H. as the Bachelor- he just doesn't seem to be playing on the same field as anyone else. His expression when she asked if he was a virgin was priceless. Jared seemed supremely unsurprised that he was going home.