aslightjump

Yeah, but in the show, which is the thing we are talking about, Jon has done almost none of that, except the last, which really only shows that Jon paid attention in his lessons and to his fellow man. There is no evidence that Jon has this great political know-how about the North. I'm not gonna buy that based on what they've shown me. Most of the maneuvering in the show is done by Davos, Littlefinger, and Lyanna as far as I remember, who either know how to politick or are a Northerner who have lived through the last couple of hellish years. I could be wrong, I never rewatched S6. But in the show, his experiences does come from the Wall and the Wildlings. I'm not saying it as bad thing either, especially considering how he got a grasp on the Wildlings and how to handle them fairly quickly. The Wall storyline was a mess, so I don't hold that negatively or positively against him. As far as the rest of your quote, that was only what I recalled D&D, Sophie, Kit and others saying at the end of the finale. I have no opinion on it either way, since most of it talks about how Sansa feels and not always what is absolutely true and shown on our TVs. Jon seems to have great respect for Sansa, Sansa less for Jon in the beginning but there at the end. Next season is apparently going to trash this for unnecessary conflict, so OK show. Outside of all that, I've never thought that they ever meant to portray Sansa as smart and Jon as dumb, or that they ever sacrificed Jon's development for Sansa's, or ever portrayed either one as unequal to the other. They had the siblings talk, and discuss things, and yes, argue, because Jon was frustrated and depressed and Sansa was mistrustful of everyone (she doesn't like Tormund, now she's not sure of Davos, oh wait there's Littlefinger, she doesn't think Jon can protect her) and terrified. I liked that they had different methods of doing things because of their own experiences and those methods clashed with each other, even though I thought at several points that both characters should be smarter than this. But there are very few conversations I remember that had Sansa bring up her complaints and then not have Jon either get to bring up his own points or refute her own (the much maligned 6x09 conversation, which has Sansa pleading and then Jon basically demanding an option better than his that she can't/won't give, is my favorite example of this). JMO, please. And also, even if they did sacrifice, it would not be the fault of Sansa the character, but the writers. I think that Jon is a great leader of men, or very much can be. I think he 'deserves' to be King in the North more than Sansa does Queen as he has more experience actually leading, but I really can't imagine either of them genuinely wanting it, because Jesus what a prize that is not. Sophie can talk about Sansa getting power all the wants, and I can see where she's coming from for sure, especially in scenes with Littlefinger, the show has shown me that Sansa primarily wants to be safe and go home. And vengeance, I guess. Which she has accomplished. Now Sophie says Sansa wants to create a safe haven, which is more in line with my own viewpoint so woo, but we'll see how that works out for her if she lets Littlefinger lurk around. That quote about Dondarrion is fantastic and I can't believe I never even thought of 'fire wight.'

So Littlefinger hangs around a whole season past his expiration date just to create irrelevant tension for Sansa and Sansa and her siblings. Alright I'll reserve judgment but jeez what a crappy denouement for not only Sansa/Littlefinger's story but Littlefinger.

The only real "Sansa is smart, Jon is dumb" narrative I'm really seeing pushed is here. AFAIK, all that d&d, Sophie, Kit, and Liam have really said is that Jon doesnt always listen to Sansa when it might benefit him and that frustrates her. Because yeah, Jon's political know how ONLY comes from the Wall and the Wildlings. Sansa does know Cersei and did know Ramsay better. Now if the writing pulled this off is a whole nother ballgame - I think they did an okay job of showing they were both wrong and both right and need to work together. Jon even says this outright. Moreover the show rewards both their narratives. Sansa gets Winterfell back, what she has ostensibly been chasing after for multiple seasons, and kill Ramsay, and Jon becomes King of the North after winning an impossible battle and finally has a place among the Starks. Show goes out of its way to show they both made mistakes in keeping with their previous development, but were ultimately right and can learn from this. I'm really only irritated that we're recycling a storyline we've already resolved. Every other thing has to do with Sansa and Jons separate development. Their stories are linked; their development is not. I am excited to see Sansa get rid of Littlefinger though.

Honestly I've only read the Lads spoilers through here so maybe I'm missing some things but the Winterfell plotline sounds so minor to me. This was mostly all wrapped up in 6x10, especially between Jon and Sansa. She apologized for not trusting him, he gave her a pass on the Vale thing, she seemed willing to cede power to him. I mean, I can see where hers and Littlefinger's scene ("who should they rally behind?") would make her second guess but that just doesn't seem like much of a plotline; she has said many times that she knows Littlefinger is shady. I don't know, maybe it'll play out better on screen with Arya in play. As far as everything else, Jon/Dany has never interested me but I'm not too fussed about any of it. Predictable, but not a grating sort of predictable. I like the Arya/Sansa scene because both sides get to have their cake and eat it. I've personally always thought both girls would have survived in the other's storyline, but not nearly as well as the original did. So if you think they couldn't, Arya agrees with you (or is trying to be nice). If you think they could, Sansa immediately refutes it. Mostly i am here for all the stories finally crossing over and meeting.

Veeeery late response, but wowza. Wes! Honest to God? Can't say I liked Wes, but I was attached to him, if that makes any sense. He was such a dope. He tried very hard, and he was very messed up, and I am going to miss his dopey ass. I read Connor as just going numb when he heard about Wes, and I also completely accept Michaela's tears because the stress of thinking her boyfriend might be dead, to thinking Connor might be dead, then finding out it was neither of them, to learning that Wes was actually dead would take a toll on anybody but moreover it was in character for her. Michaela always reacts to stress highkey emotionally before she calms down and handles it. But more than that - I've been rewatching this past season and some of the episodes before, and the Keating 5 seem to get along just fine if there are no outside stressors on the group. They are always together, sometimes completely voluntarily. For as many times as they formed lines in the sand against each other, they also formed up like Voltron to keep each other safe. Sure, they all had mostly selfish motives for doing so, but - what I'm saying is that the K5, especially the Murder 4, have always been way more interesting to me than Annalise (I know, blasphemy, but her character tends to go in circles while the kids are the ones that develop because of her), and I liked their weird dynamic and I would totally buy that Michaela, at least, would cry over Wes even if she didn't particularly like him most of the time - because these morons are all any of them have had for the past year and a half. I think that's the reason why I'm going to miss Wes the most. Put me down for the Mahoneys. I flirted with the idea that Wes might have committed suicide because he never got proper treatment for his suicidal tendencies last season (besides those odd therapist talks) but you would have to seriously tank his headspace for me to buy it. I kinda wish Connor and Oliver would just chill and be friends for another season, because they have so very many issues and need a long time to work through them - mostly because a lot of their issues don't have to do with each other. Well, Oliver's might. But I'm gonna be blunt; don't care about Oliver. Never have. Bland as toast with an equally uninspiring actor who kinda morphed into a huge jackass overnight. Connor, though. That boy has got stuff.

I like this interpretation a lot because this scene with the smile thrown in was framed similarly to the scene where Joffrey casts off Sansa to marry Margaery and she thinks she's free. The walk away, with the smile, but now its all darker because hey, so is Sansa. And once again Littlefinger is waiting in the wings to just ruined all her happiness. Also, unpopular opinion, I guess, but I don't really give a crap if Sansa 'went down to Ramsay's level' to kill him. His level is what he deserved. I just care that she doesn't stay there. For the record, no I don't think she reduced herself to Ramsay's level because Sansa has yet to torture, rape, and mutilate people for months then flay them alive so. She killed a dude the same way he had killed others. My sister has been hoping Ramsay would die this way since the first episode of the season.

Except...no? After the first season when she was thirteen, Sansa has moments of being cruel under stress, like when she bit Shae's head off after some talk with Cersei, but generally Sansa's pretty normal. Sansa was bitchy to Arya but Arya gave as good as she got, and Sansa was rude to her father after Ned had to kill Lady. But 'always needlessly bitchy' is not a trait I would apply to Sansa. She was a friend to Shae, nice to Tyrion when she didn't have to be, courteous to the Hound even when he intentionally frightened her, she helped the ladies in Blackwater, she apparently forgave Theon, ever polite to the Tyrells. There's more evidence of Sansa's compassion than there is her bitchiness. In fact, this was the first episode this season where I was like "whoa, reign it in, Sansa." (adding to the acting debate, I think Sophie's a little better than Isaac and a little worse than Maisie and they're all very talented. She was quite charming as Jean in X-Men Apocalypse and I totally bought that she could kill me with her mind.) The Arya stabbing scene had such a dream like quality to it my sister still isn't convinced it actually happened. Unpopular opinion, but the Hound scenes were boring. After a season and a half of listening to High Sparrow give weekly lectures on how to live life, I did not need to hear another guy give his own version. Necessary, but boring.

I am unsure why Sansa was so needlessly bitchy. Like sure, she's had a rough few days and been told she's not a Stark a few times and that's got to be rough, and I know she's tense but sweetie, none of that is Davos' fault. Take a breather. And I'm a huge Sansa fan. But that bugged the hell out of me. Still a teenager.

That was a great episode! Like three mysteries solved at once. Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I don't think there was anything particularly sinister or vicious about Sansa's actions. Even that comment about Jon she kinda backtracked on (badly.) Like, she's more assertive, but she's still new to this, she doesn't exactly know what she's doing. So I'm not sure it's that she doesn't trust Jon so much as she doesn't trust Littlefinger and is honestly kind of winging it. She doesn't want to have anything to do with anybody that isn't family or a Northerner. I mean, she ended up listening to Davos and Jon and cooperating with their plan while getting to add her own opinion so that was nice. That was the weirdest war council I've ever seen. Jon: I like the wolf bit. Oh my god, Jon.

Yeah, this is what I meant in regards to my post earlier...that was a really, really badly written line that didn't do Felicity a whole lot of favors. Her point in general was correct. Oliver should learn how to open himself up to her more. If they're going to get married, they need to be able to communicate. Her timing and the stupid phrasing of that line and the dumbass I can walk again moment kind of ruined everything else.

Felicity's like: I leave you with your tears, my ring, and also this wheelchair. Peace. Haha, what a mess. Sure, Felicity, he should have told you, but you lost me with the whole, you didn't include me on the decision to send William away. Why would he, Felicity? William's not your kid. It has literally nothing to do with you, even in the vague I'm-dating-the-dad way. He's not your kid. Did you include Oliver when you decided to help out Laurel and Diggle? I realize marriage wasn't on the table then but you were still in a relationship.

Soooo....Curtis' chip is fueled by dramaforce and cures muscular atrophy? Keep that guy around.

The Zay exorcism thing was just...uncommonly funny. I couldn't even tell you what it was that was funny about it, it just was. Keep this guy.

I think I'm misunderstanding you nksarmi, but Sansa can easily be respected again, depending on what she does this season. As many people pity her, there are just as many ready to see her get her vengeance. It depends on how this next season is written. Not that I have any faith in the writers anymore but I still, for one, respect Sansa immensely. Did she do everything I would have liked? No. She didn't do the one job Littlefinger gave her last season, which was gather info on the Boltons, besides using Walda's pregnancy against Ramsay . That was disappointing. And her attacking Myranda would have been wildly out of character. All Sansa knows so far, since they took out her active plotting with Dontos, is how to stand there and take it and survive to the next day. She won't learn any better from Theon or Littlefinger because that's all they know too. But everything Sansa loved has died, her family, her hopes, her wolf and her dreams, and Sansa keeps on, just like her sister. I have mad respect for both Stark girls, even if I'm not overly fond of the ways they choose to survive. That's why I'm so nervous about her potentially be put back with Littlefinger this year. If she is, I'm 99% sure she won't survive the show. I'd much rather see her go to a northern lord or to Jon. She'll still be controlled, but she might learn not to be so passive in that kind of environment. If Sansa is a character that will do what she must to live, and the only way she may live is to get off her ass and work for it, then I think we might have something going here. I despised Sansa's storyline this season, so the writers damn well better make the best of it.

I, who was adamant on Cami not becoming a vampire, surprisingly liked it. I liked that she used everything she knew against Klaus against him. And really, she explained most of what she was doing with that one line to will about finally having the power to not be the victim. She does have power now, and she's going to use it on everyone even if she knows better because it's a novel concept for the token human. And she did sort of carry on the conversation she had with Vincent last week about using her powers for justice: she wanted her family's stuff back, she made that redneck be nice to his waitress. But Cami also has darkness in her, and this is well established. So her manipulating the hell out of everyone and stealing that horse to use against people that I daresay she considered her friends before her turn is also a nice follow-through. All in all, if this trend continues, it'll be a well-written arc. I have no doubt she'll end up being Cami 1.1, now with Chocolate Chips of Darkness mixed in, but I do believe Klamille is over for the season. Phoebe Tonkin has always been perfectly serviceable as an actress and last night was no different. Well done. Kolvina will never not be lame. Why would smug, snarky, psychopathic Kol care about this little girl? Why would Davina be so chill with what Kol is?

Cami's actually probably my favorite character on the show, so I'm upset they made her a vampire. She was human, Plec! She did human things, saw things from a human perspective that was rapidly spiraling into darkness because of the company she kept! You didn't need to throw vampirism into the mix! Boo.

I liked it well enough - I even like that they're keeping Clary's flaws. The girl is amazingly selfish and pigheaded, while also being very brave and pretty bright. The problem in the books was that no one but Alec and Luke ever called her out on it and Alec was such an ass to her that it never mattered . Unfortunately it seems the show will follow that trend. I hope they don't keep Simon Nice Guying the hell out of Clary because that was annoying to read. And I actually really like the guy they've got playing Jace. He's too short but he's got the same kind of swagger that was honestly a bit goofy that book!Jace had.

Ric Lansing had the misfortune to be part of the first GH storyline to stick in my memory: sticking poor pregnant Carly in that vault. I didn't know a lot of the history even when my mom explained it to me so there was Tamara Braun acting her heart out stuck in that panic room and Liz on the outside gettting...drugged, was she drugged? And then there was Ric, the absolute psychopath. Hated him ever since.

I actually was laid out sick today so I had the misfortune to watch all of today's episode. -Lulu: "I want to save my marriage." Me: Nooooooo. But actually, you know, her husband's a tool, but good on her for making an effort if she still loves him and at the very least for Rocco's sake. -The Sam thing: Look, I don't like Sam or Liz. Sam is a judgmental hypocrite and Liz is a sanctimonious one. And not in a fun way. They have been that way for years, so Liz's crazy spiral is perfectly in character for me. That being said, I will always be on Sam's side in this situation because Liz kept Jason from his family for half a year and left a kid without a father. And no, I don't really care what Sam did to Liz eight years ago or whatever. That doesn't somehow magically mitigate or make right what Liz has done. Right now, Liz has royally fucked with people's lives and not shown half of the remorse she needs to. "She took Jason from me." Shut up, Liz. -That being said: While I don't think it was wrong for Sam to bandage up Jake, especially since she had a line indicating she thought he was alone until she got in the house, she should have called Liz immediately. At the very least to tell her what a crappy babysitter she had. Shut up, Sam. -Don't any of these people have cell phones? They always go over to people's houses. I realize a phone call isn't dramatic but geez. -If Jake just leaves Sam there I will laugh my ass off. -Prof Parker was Daphne on True Blood. She is a forcefully pretty woman. That is all.

So I only watch this sporadically, and when I do watch these days I always find myself watching for Lulu. Which is super fucking bizarre, because there used to be not one single TV character I hated more than Lulu (with the exception of maaaybe Kurt Hummel). But I liked that she screwed up and I like that in her talk with Johnny, which was really great, she acknowledged it and she was disappointed in herself because if Rocco was grown he'd probably be ashamed of what she did, and because she almost abandoned him, and because she almost killed someone. That was some nice self-awareness that I don't get to see often on soaps. Just my two cents. I also like her because Val's self-righteous smug ass can go die in a fire (and she almost did!)

Not to mention that Aria and her friends were stalked for years because Charlotte didn't think they missed Alison enough (I think. I could be mixing up motivations). I don't think Aria and Alison owe each other anything.

If they use this to fuel Ali into becoming her former super-manipulative self, I'll take it. My sister and I call each other every week to discuss PLL (and make fun of each other for our complete apathy towards a show we can't stop watching) and all she could say this week was how much she hated Ali. But I'd take hating Ali any day over feeling vague disappointment towards her. This show is in sore need of one of the Melissa/Ian/Garrett/Jenna characters they had in the early season that the girls couldn't puzzle out if they should trust or not. I don't mind Alison's character growth after the horror she went through, that she kind of brought on herself. That's fine. It's just no fun to watch. The Prayer of Shade this week - while the motivation was weak because I will never ever feel sorry Charlotte is dead or feel bad for Ali - was glorious.

I'm...kind of really enjoying drunk bitter Ezra who keeps articles on his disturbingly dead girlfriend on a USB he casually lends out to people? I don't know, I thought him and Aria semi-drunk and semi-ranting down the streets of Rosewood was kind of hilarious. (I mean this seriously: did I miss some subtext about that scene? Ezra told Aria it was the beginnings of his new book and that they wouldn't like it and Aria took it to read but it was all articles on Nicole?) Spencer and Caleb - I just don't care. I have never enjoyed Haleb because I don't like Ashley Benson's acting and I find Caleb irritatingly paternalistic, but they were better than max-chillaxed Caleb and moony-eyed Spencer. Boo. Scene at the grave was hands-down some of Shay's best acting. Wish it would've have gone on a bit longer.

I feel the same. I had the fortune to watch the first five episodes all at once on demand and it really does help with the pacing, kind of smooths the whole show out so one thread neatly flows into the next.

I consider myself a fan of the show and I don't want to be restricted from commenting just because I don't like some things about the show. The show has problems, big or small depending on the person watching, and as they are part of the show they are worthy of discussion. Prompting discussion is the nicest thing a show can do, and The Expanse does that for all of us here. For example, my problem right now is the characters I do care about I really, really care about but the ones I don't I really, really don't. It makes for an incredibly uneven viewing experience but I know I need to keep watching so I can understand everything. I've already stated in another thread, I do not like Miller's story but I know it's part of the big picture. Also, the sound is terrible. Genuinely awful. I had to turn on the closed captioning more than once. Then again, I'm one of the few that complains about Game of Thrones' mixing as well, so maybe I'm going deaf. I hope they get that fixed for the DVD set.